Sheriff's Bust "Drug Trafficking Organization"

[Grendelkhan]

I see what your saying about all smaller growers but I will point out that I personally have suffered from them in the 90's when they would go to hydro shops and then they would go after you simply because you had bought product from that shop. Operation Green Merchant and they still do it all the time. Yes times are different but your operating from the idea that they will be logical. They are not logical at all. They do things sometimes for the most stupid reasons and often they will do it just because they can. Its not that I don't want for things to change. I do want MJ movement to grow. I just don't feel that 19 is going to help. I think that the little guy is going to suffer. I think that once again those with the deepest pockets and most connections are going to squeeze out the little players. They want for you to pay extra taxxes, they want for your grows meet extra specs, they will keep on adding and adding. Soon it will be that you have to meet state guidelines, city guidelines, county guidelines and don't forget the annual fees, fire fee's, law enforcement fee's, etc. I really feel like if people want a change then they should be making changes in their local area's. Until the changes come from everyone at a local level then we won't be able to change it as a group but that is just my viewpoint. And viewpoints are just like assholes, in that we all take shits from them or something like that.
Peace.

 

[zen_trikester]

I see what your saying about all smaller growers but I will point out that I personally have suffered from them in the 90's when they would go to hydro shops and then they would go after you simply because you had bought product from that shop. Operation Green Merchant and they still do it all the time. Yes times are different but your operating from the idea that they will be logical. They are not logical at all. They do things sometimes for the most stupid reasons and often they will do it just because they can. Its not that I don't want for things to change. I do want MJ movement to grow. I just don't feel that 19 is going to help. I think that the little guy is going to suffer. I think that once again those with the deepest pockets and most connections are going to squeeze out the little players. They want for you to pay extra taxxes, they want for your grows meet extra specs, they will keep on adding and adding. Soon it will be that you have to meet state guidelines, city guidelines, county guidelines and don't forget the annual fees, fire fee's, law enforcement fee's, etc. I really feel like if people want a change then they should be making changes in their local area's. Until the changes come from everyone at a local level then we won't be able to change it as a group but that is just my viewpoint. And viewpoints are just like assholes, in that we all take shits from them or something like that.
Peace.

The first part of this post is the difference between legal and decrim. Would a court look at a cop saying "I smelled pot so I broke down the door" as a just occurrence if pot were legal? I would think they would need more than that and a whole lot more than seeing you buying a 5'er of liquid Karma from the grow shop.

Section 11303: Seizure

(a) Notwithstanding sections 11470 and 11479 of the Health and Safety Code or any other provision of law, no state or local law enforcement agency or official shall attempt to, threaten to, or in fact seize or destroy any cannabis plant, cannabis seeds or cannabis that is lawfully cultivated, processed, transported, possessed, possessed for sale, sold or used in compliance with this Act or any local government ordinance, law or regulation adopted pursuant to this Act.

Prop 19 specifically says that LEO can't bust or hassle you as long as you follow the rules. The way I read this is if you follow the rules for commercial or personal then local can't do anything and so they can't work with the DEA to do anything. The DEA just isn't big enough to go knocking on doors or driving through neighborhoods with their nose to the air. The most the DEA will realistically be able to do is to look at a list of business names or other registration records and hit the big guns. If that happens the big guns will be replaced and that may be the ticket for the "mom and pops" to get into the game. It may prove best to have a lot of smaller growers instead of giant factories. Only time will tell, and we won't ever know unless it passes.


Jed

 

[vta]

good post as always Jed

 

[Zen Master]

I haven't heard the feds say boo about it and they may just let it slide. They may see this as an opportunity to test what we have been saying for years and years about violent crimes and restricting access to children. It may simply just be left to go it's course.

you have clearly never dealt with cops.... federal cops even more so.

No, they will absolutely not 'just let it slide' and say "well they voted it in, better respect THAT law!" hahaha no way

Feds have been raiding and hassling LEGAL 215 patients since '96 because it was drafted with immense gray areas that allowed them to do so.

Prop 19 specifically says that LEO can't bust or hassle you as long as you follow the rules.

how do you think they verify if you are following the rules? you mail in a letter tellin em? If you think its so preposterous for the DEA to bust and seize from what I would call 'sitting ducks', who the fuck do you think they are gonna hire for 'compliance checks'? Regular LEO? A 'compliance inspector' that goes from grow to grow?

Don't forget that in order to become a producer of retail cannabis outside of your own personal usage, you would need to apply for the proper permits, which each city can regulate differently (thats way cool, so when I travel 5 minutes in one direction I can face different charges (tax evasion anyone?) than if I went 5 minutes the OTHER way)

oh yeah those permits are >$100,000 (isn't it 200k?) and in extremely limited quantities I would imagine... isn't there a grand total of 4 permits being offered in Oakland?

The most the DEA will realistically be able to do is ... hit the big guns. If that happens the big guns will be replaced and that may be the ticket for the "mom and pops" to get into the game.

so its okay for the DEA to fuck with the growers that supply the people who dont grow, but if you grow your own, "you 'aight".... that is until you step into those bigger shoes and try to make a successful business out of your "legal" crops.

see the discrepancies? see how it sucks to be big time and facing years when simply providing a service people want? This is why 19 sucks, its more gray areas and wont stop harassment.

 

[vta]

oh yeah those permits are >$100,000 (isn't it 200k?) and in extremely limited quantities I would imagine... isn't there a grand total of 4 permits being offered in Oakland?

Those permits are for MEDICAL marijuana.

That said...The State is working on regulations should 19 pass. As it is now they are going to charge a $5,000 registration fee and the yearly license fee will be $2,500.

btw...how much does a liquor license cost? Anywhere from $12,000 to $400,000.

Were talking business here.

Bottom line....19 will keep people out of the criminal system. It will allow every adult to cultivate and possess. You don't think that is a good thing....that some other issues merit overlooking all those positives???

 

[zen_trikester]

you have clearly never dealt with cops.... federal cops even more so.

I've delt with cops plenty. I've smoked up in front of street cops, desk jockeys, ex-marine rookies and full-on detective/narcs. None of them give a shit about a user. They all know that pot use is far less of a problem for them than alcohol. Feds you are right, I have never dealt with them, but growing isn't my paycheck and they have -0- reason to come knocking on my door.

No, they will absolutely not 'just let it slide' and say "well they voted it in, better respect THAT law!" hahaha no way

The purpose of this prop in the eyes of the yes voting non-smoker is to get the drugs and crime off the streets and put some money in the coffers. Non smokers are what, 50-75% of the vote for this or any other prop? And the feds are letting it (prop 19) slide now aren't they? Are you hearing some specific federal fight against this? The absentee ballots are already out. Are they waiting for something before they display their opposition? Are they thinking their couple thousand agents are going to all leave their post and go bust every person in Cali? I know many here think cops are plain evil, but it isn't that simple. If state law says that a local or state officer can't do shit then guess what a judge will say????

Feds have been raiding and hassling LEGAL 215 patients since '96 because it was drafted with immense gray areas that allowed them to do so.

That is because 215 isn't legality. 215 is a defense. I'm not slamming you but you need to understand the difference between the two props. 215 is to allow safe access for med patients and that will always be in effect until the people of cali change that, but legality *** yes even with regulation and taxation*** is a far stronger beast. This law, if passed, removes LEO from the responsibility of busting legal grows. It forbids them from touching you because it is law. It really is that simple. If you are a commercial grower then yes you have to either get a license or watch your fucking back but for anyone following the law the state can't do anything to you. That is clear as a bell if you vote yes. If you vote no, then God help you because if the people of California "decide that they don't really think pot is safe for recreational use" or decide that the refer madness and dare lessons are correct, then we are all fucked and the shit storm will drop from the sky. Don't think for a second that a no on this prop will make things stay the same... it is a vote for continued prohibition. maybe even increased enforcement. Conjecture yes, but something to think about!

how do you think they verify if you are following the rules? you mail in a letter tellin em? If you think its so preposterous for the DEA to bust and seize from what I would call 'sitting ducks', who the fuck do you think they are gonna hire for 'compliance checks'? Regular LEO? A 'compliance inspector' that goes from grow to grow?

Good question... what will the people of America say when the DEA decides to spend a couple more billion on the fight against a harmless plant? What could they possibly do? I mean really... how many federal agents do you think they will sick on Cali? Compliance checks are going to be funded by the taxes and license fee's. that will all be up to local authorities. Compliance for the feds is simply based on if you have plants you are a criminal. Now, getting the manpower to enforce that is where they will stumble. It just isn't reasonably possible for the feds to drop everything to go after Cali.

Don't forget that in order to become a producer of retail cannabis outside of your own personal usage, you would need to apply for the proper permits, which each city can regulate differently (thats way cool, so when I travel 5 minutes in one direction I can face different charges (tax evasion anyone?) than if I went 5 minutes the OTHER way)

I'm not following your logic here. It clearly states in the prop that you can travel between local authorities as long as you are following the laws of your grow location and your delivery location. You just can't go out of state. Read the prop!

oh yeah those permits are >$100,000 (isn't it 200k?) and in extremely limited quantities I would imagine... isn't there a grand total of 4 permits being offered in Oakland?

Oakland... friggen Lee and 3 other guys bought Oakland, BFD. He pushed and pushed and now pot is almost legal in Cali. Can we not throw him a bone? Plenty more permits will open up after the big dogs take the first few hits and the courts obey the law. It will be just like 215 where people fall and others pick up where the fallen left off. In the mean time, all you guys doing your 99 plant medical grows and your 9,000 w hps basement grows for the street dealers will be just as you are now... at risk. Except under prop 19 every house can potentially smell like a weed factory so yours isn't very special anymore.

so its okay for the DEA to fuck with the growers that supply the people who dont grow, but if you grow your own, "you 'aight".... that is until you step into those bigger shoes and try to make a successful business out of your "legal" crops.

I feel for you man, I really do. I know I am coming off like a prick saying you should forgo your fortune but this is legalization. This is a legal right to buy, sell, posses, grow, and use. It won't all come about overnight but if you have the mental and legal ability to form a business it is possible. If you don't then there will be work but you don't get to be the big dick on the farm. Do you really think that the state would prefer to put the growers on welfare so they can sell permits only to the ultra rich? I'm sure they want the taxes, but those who have the stones to do it right will happily pay them. Those who don't will get fucked. I'm guessing you are preparing to bend over instead of planning for the new world.

see the discrepancies? see how it sucks to be big time and facing years when simply providing a service people want? This is why 19 sucks, its more gray areas and wont stop harassment.

But if you're "big time" now are you safe? The big grows on record will draw the attention from the underground grows don't you think? There isn't really a gray area (cup half full), just a few unpainted canvases. Go to your local governments NOW and bring your paint. These commercial laws are unwritten and THE GROWERS need to be active in writing them. How many proposals have you submitted to your local gov? Did you write out how you think the laws should be? Did you speak with a lawyer and say in plain English "this is what I think would work for everybody" so that he could make a legal translation for you to submit? Have you met with other local growers and talked about how you could all keep a piece of your pie? Talked about partnerships and multi location co-ops? Get out there man and quit your bitchen' or you will end up with shit. You want to see a lot of people getting busted? Vote NO and tell the feds that the people of Cali don't really think pot should be legal. "If that is what the people want then we should start busting more grows". People of California need to send the right message. Despite any wording imperfections and any gray areas, this prop is about weather or not the people of California want to legalize pot. I wish more people would simply see this for what it is. not perfect for anybody but acceptable to many, and the biggest first step the world has ever seen.

Jed

 

[hazemaker]

HI all!

Just wanted to point out 28 containers 5lbs a piece, each containing HASH OIL is 1057 people whom could have had a cure for their cancer.

As my math teacher insisted here is my work:

28 containers times 5 lbs = 140lbs hash oil

140lbs of hash oil at 453.59grams per pound is 63,502.6 grams of hash oil, medicinal cancer inhibiting MEDICINE!

Simpson, Rick states 60grams is his treatment for cancer

Dividing 63,502.6 grams of Hash oil By recommended 60day treatment is 1057.91 people that could have used what will now be EVIDENCE in an ignorant, soulless sherriffs department.

Not to mention the HASh and plants Potential. The child porn allegation is the only one worth investigation. However, it is likely the least of the sherriffs concern, a plant, a cancer fighting, mother of all beneficial plants to mankind, dating back further then LANGUAGE is the story they cling toooooo Shame on You, shame shame shame on you Your not police your wolves! rabid wolves!

 

[Tony Aroma]

come on thats a pipe dream...if anything this is gonna happen MORE after 19...because theres gonna be a shitload of people coming to cali to set up shop so they can pump pounds back into their non-med states. 19 would help them in court, but all they gotta do is press fed charges and the 19 safety net is torn apart...

No, it won't. At least not legally. Local police and sheriffs would not make such arrests because it would be legal under state law. Local LEO can't raid and arrest people who are not violating the law. In theory.

Sure, the DEA still could and federal charges could be filed. But that's something completely different, and not what this article is about. They may or may not decide to go after a few high-profile cases to make an example, as they've done and continue to do with dispensaries and medical users. But local LEO will be prohibited from helping them, as they do now, if Prop 19 passes. And the DEA simply doesn't have the resources to go after 100s of thousands of cannabis users in CA.

 

[MrPuff]

They had a great taste in cars, the Panamera is a fucking beauty

 

[kava]

WOW I thought you all would of got this by now but here it is. The FEDs are going to enforce the laws.
I found it here => http://stopthedrugwar.org/chronicle/2010/oct/15/justice_dept_enforce_marijuana_l


Its at stop the drug war THought you should know and read it I am not spamming

Here is some of what they were saying

US Attorney General Eric Holder said Friday in Los Angeles that the federal government will enforce its marijuana laws in California even if voters there decide in November to legalize marijuana by approving Proposition 19, the tax and regulate marijuana legalization initiative.

The comments came during a joint press conference with Prop 19 foes, including Los Angeles District Attorney Steve Cooley and Los Angeles County Sheriff Lee Baca, as well as former heads of the DEA and Immigration and Customs Enforcement. Cooley, who is running for state attorney general, has said he believes all medical marijuana dispensaries are illegal.

According to the Associated Press, Holder Wednesday wrote a letter written to former heads of the DEA saying the Justice Department strongly opposes Prop 19 and remains committed to enforcing the Controlled Substances Act all across the country.

"We will vigorously enforce the CSA against those individuals and organizations that possess, manufacture or distribute marijuana for recreational use, even if such activities are permitted under state law," Holder wrote. Legalizing marijuana would be a "significant impediment" to the federal government's effort to target drug traffickers and would "significantly undermine" safety in California communities, the attorney general said.

 

[zen_trikester]

I was just coming to post something similar. The feds are finally realizing this could actually happen.

http://reason.com/blog/2010/10/15/holder-to-california-potsmoker

From the Associated Press:

Attorney General Eric Holder says the federal government will enforce its marijuana laws in California even if the state's voters approve a ballot measure to legalize the drug. [...]

He made the comments in a letter to former chiefs of the U.S. Drug Enforcement Administration. The Associated Press obtained a copy of the letter, dated Wednesday.

"We will vigorously enforce the CSA against those individuals and organizations that possess, manufacture or distribute marijuana for recreational use, even if such activities are permitted under state law," Holder wrote.

He also said that legalizing recreational marijuana in California would be a "significant impediment" to the government's joint efforts with state and local law enforcement to target drug traffickers, who often distribute marijuana alongside cocaine and other drugs. Holder said approval of the ballot measure would "significantly undermine" efforts to keep California communities safe.