Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[Mr Jay]

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[Carl Carlson]

RECIPE #1
If you want to use organic nutes like blood, bone and kelp...
Dry Ferts:
1 tablespoon blood meal per gallon or 1/2 cup per cubic foot of soil mix
2 tablespoons bone meal per gallon or 1 cup per cubic foot of soil mix

If my math isn't wrong, than the guidelines above match up almost perfectly with the ones quoted below, to the tune of (if table 2 is correct) roughly 150 ppm N & 8 ppm P

ORGANIC GREENHOUSE TOMATO NUTRITION
by Vern Grubinger
Vegetable and Berry specialist
University of Vermont Extension

SME = saturated media extract test

 

[vonforne]

Here's a uh, organics question. Has anyone had success adding *cough*urine*cough* to their teas?

I do not recall the exact make up of urine but it is sterile, less than 2% salt.....and comes concentrated. lol

If you use bird guanos then you already use Urea. Or about any Manure.

You are talking human urine. Well from past posters the dilution rate is between 10 to 1 or 20 to 1. Another example of use your best judgment and start out wit low doses and see what you plants requirements are.

It is a great N source.

from google

Exhaustive detailed description of the composition of human urine can be found in NASA Contractor Report No. NASA CR-1802, D. F. Putnam, July 1971. That report provided detailed chemical analyses for inorganic and organic constituents, methods of analysis, chemical and physical properties and its behavior during concentrative processes such as evaporation, distillation and other phisiochemical operations. Urine is an aqueous solution of greater than 95% water, with the remaining constituents, in order of decreasing concentration urea 9.3 g/l, chloride 1.87 g/l, sodium 1.17 g/l, potassium 0.750 g/l, creatinine 0.670 g/l and other dissolved ions, inorganic and organic compounds.
Urine is sterile until it reaches the urethra where the epithelial cells lining the urethra are colonized by facultatively anaerobic Gram negative rods and cocci.[1] Subsequent to elimination from the body, urine can acquire strong odors due to bacterial action[citation needed]. Most noticeably, the asphyxiating ammonia is produced by breakdown of urea. Some diseases alter the quantity and consistency of the urine, such as sugar as a consequence of diabetes.

and the PH is 7...which is neutral.

V

 

[vonforne]

If my math isn't wrong, than the guidelines above match up almost perfectly with the ones quoted below, to the tune of (if table 2 is correct) roughly 150 ppm N & 8 ppm P

ORGANIC GREENHOUSE TOMATO NUTRITION
by Vern Grubinger
Vegetable and Berry specialist
University of Vermont Extension

SME = saturated media extract test

Hey Carl, nice posting.

Our peat based soil mix comes from a 1939 Cornell University mix.

I have never measured PPM´s I let mother Nature do tat for me using the correct ingredients and trusting her to do her part for me.

V

 

[vonforne]

Thank you kind sir

No alaska cause of the metals in it???

That is one point.

The other being the Alaskan is ´Emulsions`and the Neptunes Harvest is fish hydrolysate.

Emulsions uses heat to process it. Fish hydrolysate is produced using cold extraction.

Neptune's Harvest...
Uses several species of fishNeptune's Harvest is made from several species of edible North Atlantic Fish remains (the part that is left after the fillet is removed for human consumption). Several species are better, because each species has a different nutrients analysis profile, so you get a full range of nutrients, vitamins, amino acids, enzymes and growth hormones. We mix all the Hydrolyzed Fish in a 10,000-gallon mixing tank before it is pumped into holding tanks. This process ensures a very consistent product from day to day and year to year. The fish we use are caught a minimum of three miles from shore and usually much further, in the icy, clean waters of the North Atlantic.

Emulsions...
One type of fish (trash fish)Emulsions are made from so-called "Trash Fish" (fish that Americans won't eat), usually Menhaden is used. Menhaden is caught in harbors and rivers on the coast and are exposed to coastal pollutants. Also, lake fish used could contain Mercury and PCB's.

hydrolysate is better.

V

 

[vonforne]

I have posted this up before about 20 or s pages back but will post again to keep it fresh for those who wish it.

Some of my tea recipes.....

Seedlings

4 gallons of tepid water
2 or 3 handfuls of EWC or fresh compost or both
1 TBS Fulvic acid per gallon
1 TSP per gallon of Molasses

Brew for 24 hours @ 70 degrees
water in.

Remember to scratch the soil and make it moist before watering with the compost tea.

Vegetative Stage ( 3 to 5 weeks

Compost Tea (Using a amended soil) used once per week

4 gallons Tepid water
2 handfuls EWC or fresh compost
1 TBS Fulvic or Humic acid per gallon
1 TBS Fish emulsions of Hydroslate per gallon
1 TSP per gallon of water

Nutrient Tea for veg rotate with the above tea

2 TBS N guano or Alfalfa ( I rotate these one on and one off)
1 TBS P guano
1 handful EWC
1 TBS Fulvic acid or Humic acid per gallon
1 TSP Molasses per gallon of water.

Brew for 24 hours @ 70 degrees and water in.

Remember to scratch the soil and make it moist before watering with the Compost tea or Nutrient tea.

Take the third watering off and water with just Molasses and water.

Early flower stage

Here I will top dress for an extra boost of N. I top dress with 1 or 2 TBS N guano.

I use the seedling tea for the first watering. I want to increase the bio activity at this time. The plants expend a great amount of energy during the stretch.

Then I use a reverse version of the Veg tea

1 TBS N guano or Alfalfa ( I rotate these one on and one off)
2 TBS P guano
1 handful EWC
1 TBS Fulvic acid or Humic acid per gallon
1 TSP Molasses per gallon of water.
1 TSP K.Mag or Sul-Po-Mag per 2 gallons of water.

Remember to scratch the soil and make it moist before watering with the Compost tea or Nutrient tea.

Then in the last four weeks I start backing off on the teas both Nutrient and Compost.

The final 2 to 3 weeks I use just Molasses and water for watering. With the last 2 waterings with plain water. At this time you are most likely watering twice a week.


This is just how I do it by standard........it does vary depending on plants and nutrient needs.

HTH

V

 

[fredcdobbs]

I have posted this up before about 20 or s pages back but will post again to keep it fresh for those who wish it.

Some of my tea recipes.....

Seedlings

4 gallons of tepid water
2 or 3 handfuls of EWC or fresh compost or both
1 TBS Fulvic acid per gallon
1 TSP per gallon of Molasses

Brew for 24 hours @ 70 degrees
water in.

Remember to scratch the soil and make it moist before watering with the compost tea.

Vegetative Stage ( 3 to 5 weeks

Compost Tea (Using a amended soil) used once per week

4 gallons Tepid water
2 handfuls EWC or fresh compost
1 TBS Fulvic or Humic acid per gallon
1 TBS Fish emulsions of Hydroslate per gallon
1 TSP per gallon of water

Nutrient Tea for veg rotate with the above tea

2 TBS N guano or Alfalfa ( I rotate these one on and one off)
1 TBS P guano
1 handful EWC
1 TBS Fulvic acid or Humic acid per gallon
1 TSP Molasses per gallon of water.

Brew for 24 hours @ 70 degrees and water in.

Remember to scratch the soil and make it moist before watering with the Compost tea or Nutrient tea.

Take the third watering off and water with just Molasses and water.

Early flower stage

Here I will top dress for an extra boost of N. I top dress with 1 or 2 TBS N guano.

I use the seedling tea for the first watering. I want to increase the bio activity at this time. The plants expend a great amount of energy during the stretch.

Then I use a reverse version of the Veg tea

1 TBS N guano or Alfalfa ( I rotate these one on and one off)
2 TBS P guano
1 handful EWC
1 TBS Fulvic acid or Humic acid per gallon
1 TSP Molasses per gallon of water.
1 TSP K.Mag or Sul-Po-Mag per 2 gallons of water.

Remember to scratch the soil and make it moist before watering with the Compost tea or Nutrient tea.

Then in the last four weeks I start backing off on the teas both Nutrient and Compost.

The final 2 to 3 weeks I use just Molasses and water for watering. With the last 2 waterings with plain water. At this time you are most likely watering twice a week.


This is just how I do it by standard........it does vary depending on plants and nutrient needs.

HTH

V

thats what i needed right there..gracias amigo...one question..where and what would you suggest i get the fulvic or humic acid,sul po mag,fish emulsions or hydroslate?...are there any specific brand names you use?.....and also,why do i need sul po mag if i've already used dolomite lime in my soilless mix?..(lc's base and recipe #1)

 

[Carl Carlson]

Hey Carl, nice posting.

Our peat based soil mix comes from a 1939 Cornell University mix.

I have never measured PPM´s I let mother Nature do tat for me using the correct ingredients and trusting her to do her part for me.

V

Hi V

Do the recommendations for the amounts of bone, blood and limestone to add per cubic foot come from the Cornell U. mixes too?

It could be a coincidence but it would seem they're too perfect not to be based on the some kind of foundation of soil nutrient level testing. I think it can be a useful tool for indoor container growers that want to specifically fine tune their mix. It being that the 1/2 cup, etc. can be quantified into something those of us coming from the hydro side can wrap our heads around.

 

[vonforne]

thats what i needed right there..gracias amigo...one question..where and what would you suggest i get the fulvic or humic acid,sul po mag,fish emulsions or hydroslate?...are there any specific brand names you use?.....and also,why do i need sul po mag if i've already used dolomite lime in my soilless mix?..(lc's base and recipe #1)

Humic acid- http://www.simplici-tea.com/seaweed.htm

Neptunes Harvest for the hydrolsate

K-Mag Natural for the sul-po-mag http://www.kmag.com/

The sul-po-mg is for a boost in flowering for K\Potasium @ 1 TSP per gallon of water.

HTH

V

 

[fredcdobbs]

Humic acid- http://www.simplici-tea.com/seaweed.htm

Neptunes Harvest for the hydrolsate

K-Mag Natural for the sul-po-mag http://www.kmag.com/

The sul-po-mg is for a boost in flowering for K\Potasium @ 1 TSP per gallon of water.

HTH

V[/quote there are 3 different types of kmag...which one?....also,should the effects of a guano tea be apparent in a day or 2..tryin to watch my plants for signs of too much nitrogen...also,you state that in early flower you top dress with n guano @ 1-2 tbsp..my containers are 10 gallons each plant..would that make a difference in the amount of said guano?

 

[vonforne]

Humic acid- http://www.simplici-tea.com/seaweed.htm

Neptunes Harvest for the hydrolsate

K-Mag Natural for the sul-po-mag http://www.kmag.com/

The sul-po-mg is for a boost in flowering for K\Potasium @ 1 TSP per gallon of water.

HTH

V[/quote there are 3 different types of kmag...which one?....also,should the effects of a guano tea be apparent in a day or 2..tryin to watch my plants for signs of too much nitrogen...also,you state that in early flower you top dress with n guano @ 1-2 tbsp..my containers are 10 gallons each plant..would that make a difference in the amount of said guano?

K-mag....I have the premium and the standard. Grind them with an old coffee grinder and dissolve in warm water fora few hours first.

As with every thing in organic soil growing it takes a few days to see some results. Folair feed to see faster results. Make sure you dilute accordingly before folair feeding.

10 gallons......start with 2 TBS and work your way up from there. Only 5% is water soluble so the rest will take some time to begin to break down. 1 TBS usually lasts about 1 to 2 weeks depending on plants nutrient needs.

Again it is ue your best judgment.....Less}Better.
You can always add to but never take away if it too much. There is really no flushing out of Nutrients in organic soil.

V

 

[vonforne]

Hi V

Do the recommendations for the amounts of bone, blood and limestone to add per cubic foot come from the Cornell U. mixes too?

It could be a coincidence but it would seem they're too perfect not to be based on the some kind of foundation of soil nutrient level testing. I think it can be a useful tool for indoor container growers that want to specifically fine tune their mix. It being that the 1/2 cup, etc. can be quantified into something those of us coming from the hydro side can wrap our heads around.

Honestly.....I do not know but it is a little to exact not to have some extensive research done.

I will check trough some things and see what I can dig up on tat.

A good person to ask that is Clackamass coot. If he is still posting here.

V

 

[fredcdobbs]

K-mag....I have the premium and the standard. Grind them with an old coffee grinder and dissolve in warm water fora few hours first.

As with every thing in organic soil growing it takes a few days to see some results. Folair feed to see faster results. Make sure you dilute accordingly before folair feeding.

10 gallons......start with 2 TBS and work your way up from there. Only 5% is water soluble so the rest will take some time to begin to break down. 1 TBS usually lasts about 1 to 2 weeks depending on plants nutrient needs.

Again it is ue your best judgment.....Less}Better.
You can always add to but never take away if it too much. There is really no flushing out of Nutrients in organic soil.

V

per kmag,whats the difference between premium and standard and do i need both?...also,if i can use fulvic acid instead of humic acid,why do i need humic acid?

 

[vonforne]

per kmag,whats the difference between premium and standard and do i need both?...also,if i can use fulvic acid instead of humic acid,why do i need humic acid?

K-mad.....it is justte partical size. Get the Standard. You can contact them and they will send samples to you to try out.

Humic and Fulvic. Fulvic is just a finer refinement of leonardite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardite

I just use what is available at the time. Both work well. I also have it in my soil in the raw form.

V

 

[FlaDankster]

Thank You Von for your help and an even bigger thank you for doin what you do in this thread.I spend more time readin than postin cause i'm learnin alot more from my mistakes than followin exactly what someone else is doin.People to scared nowa days of fucin things up......don't bother me to much,best way to learn to me.Screw it up cause then ya gotta "learn" how to fix stuff.

Thank you again for GIVING US an online class on organic growing bruddah!!Hope ya have a great day.

FD

 

[fredcdobbs]

neptunes harvest = fish,seaweed,or fish and seaweed..which one?...i see that liquid karma has humic acid and hydrolsate in it..why cant i use that?

 

[asdmo]

GAHH I NEED HELPP!!!

GAHH I NEED HELPP!!!

So I picked up a couple clones from the clinic today (1xBlue dream, 2x ******s WhiteFire cuts, 1x giesel, 1x hp13xoregan pinapple, 1clone they didnt label....)right when i got home, i thew them into a mix of, 30/70 ffof/fflw, 35% pearl lite, 35% earth worm casting, some dolomite lime. I checked my plants 24hours later... and I see that the Blue dream leaves are curling upwawrds and drying out... and some of the plants tips are turning yellow and curling slightly downwards... Does anybody have suggestions???

 

[fredcdobbs]

K-mad.....it is justte partical size. Get the Standard. You can contact them and they will send samples to you to try out.

Humic and Fulvic. Fulvic is just a finer refinement of leonardite.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonardite

I just use what is available at the time. Both work well. I also have it in my soil in the raw form.

V

just ordered fulvic,and humic acid plus some neptunes harvest fish/seaweed hydrolsate....called that number you gave me about a free sample and the guy thought i was nuts.hehehe...had no idea what i was talkin about..

 

[de145]

So I picked up a couple clones from the clinic today (1xBlue dream, 2x ******s WhiteFire cuts, 1x giesel, 1x hp13xoregan pinapple, 1clone they didnt label....)right when i got home, i thew them into a mix of, 30/70 ffof/fflw, 35% pearl lite, 35% earth worm casting, some dolomite lime. I checked my plants 24hours later... and I see that the Blue dream leaves are curling upwawrds and drying out... and some of the plants tips are turning yellow and curling slightly downwards... Does anybody have suggestions???

Are you saying you mixed up a batch of organic soil then *immediately* planted clones in it without letting the organic soil age first?

 

[popngen]

Next time do not buy any bagged soil. Make your own. That way you know EXACTLY what is in it.......because you made it from scratch.

I used FFOF in the past and had problems with it in the first run, it works great once it has been cycled though. Cycled=used and then used again.
V

Von,

Does that mean you would "prefer" not to use the LC's mix #2 then? Trying to find a good foot/combination for my first soil grow (with or without teas).