I need your input on a good soil blend..(so many to pick from)

[Bennyweed1]

Well I have spent the last couple of weeks researching how I want to make my organic soil.

My main question is what should I use as a base? I dont want my base to be a packaged soil like ocean forest or sunshine promix because I frankly dont want to spend the money on it.

That being said is a good base peatmoss, green sand and perlite? What about top soil and what exactly is it? Soil in general is basically composted material right? So what is top soil then, a mixture of different peats?

For my extras I want to blend :
Azomite (cost less then kelp)
Chicken manure
Mushroom compost
Worm castings
bone and blood meal
back to nature cotton burr
alflafa
dolomite lime
Epsom salt

All in all I will need a total of 125 gallons of soil or about 17 cubic feet. I dont have mix ratios figured out yet because I have never mixed a soil before so I am not 100% sure how much of each extra I will need.

My goal is take make a soil that will need only minimal tea applications. I will top dress with guanos and meals accordingly during veg and bloom.

What do you think? Will that soil be to hot to work with or will it be perfect after I mix it and let it sit for 2 weeks? All inputs appreciated and +reps for any solid help!! Thanks IC!!! Peace out.

 

[h.h.]

Depends on the ratios.

 

[pseudopod]

Sounds pretty good to me, as long as you keep your ratios right. I love my LC #1. I used peat with just a little coco coir/fiber mixed in and #3 perlite (my favorite). It's beautiful stuff.

The best way to work out ratios is by substitution. Take out some of your main, say N source and supplement with the secondaries in reasonable amounts.

2 weeks is probably about the shortest time you would want it to cook.

 

[Zendo]

Topsoil is the upper, outermost layer of soil on planet earth, usually the top 2 inches (5.1 cm) to 8 inches (20 cm). It has the highest concentration of organic matter, microorganisms, and is where most of the Earth's biological soil activity occurs.

I can't help with ratio's, as I don't know how to ratio animal products as I've never used them.

In your post, you say you are using azomite instead of kelp...

While Azomite does have the macro's and micro's like kelp has, it also doesn't have some of the best goodies in kelp..Like cytokinins, auxin-like gibberellinns, betaines, manitol, organic acids, amino acids, and proteins which are all very beneficial and widely used in agriculture.

I would recommend using an even mix of Azomite/soft rock phos./glacial rock dust/greensand at 1 to 1.5 cups per 5 gallons..

I would also add kelp meal to your soil, and or compost teas. I wouldn't roll without it.

Peace

 

[blwd67]

Being new Myself I dont want to give out too much advice, but I will say kelp meal pretty much single handedly saved my life this grow.

 

[Stoned Crow]

I was gonna recommend worm casting, but I see ya got it. My two most important are kelp & castings, those are the two that I absolutely can't roll without..........SC

 

[NSPB]

Soil Mix:

4 gallons local organic potting soil (no base nutrient value)
1.5 gallons peat
1.5 gallons coir
3 gallons perlite
1 gallon EWC

Usually, I just blend the soil in 10 gallon batches (1.5 cubic ft.) and then amend.

I do say you need to add dolomite limestone and kelp meal. The green sand is a good K source, but is really best used in conjunction with the kelp meal. If making a must have choice, one or the other, I'd ditch the green sand and purchase kelp meal. Mostly because kelp provides an unbelievable amount of growth hormones. Even with using the azomite, which more importantly adds a ton of mineral content to the soil (keeping in mind it is also upwards of 60% silicon dioxide), it by itself is not a provider of the K you will need, and is not really used as a K source. So being cheaper than kelp meal, is fine, but it isn't a replacement for it.

You might want to consider also, you choice of using manures in general. I'd ditch the manure, but keep the mushroom compost. Any benefit you are going to receive from using manure, you will get in using the compost. Since you are using blood / bone you have a very adequate source of N and P. Maybe, depending on what bone meal you use, even MORE N coming from that (from chickens or from fish or if it was steamed). I simply mention this, in regards to your concern about ratios. Mostly, because alfalfa meal CAN be used as the main / full source for N. However, if not intending to use it this way, it is still beneficial to your mix because it adds triacontanol, which is another major growth stimulate for plants.

All in all you are on the right track to a very good soil mix. You seem to be trying to balance the mix so that the plants have multiple sources of nutrients; very good idea. I'd just not personally use so much fertilizer that is based on poultry. Remember taste is important too. What you feed your plants with DOES change the smells and flavors. I noticed this hand, most notably, with plants grown using too many fish based fertilizers....trust me, you taste it....just a thought.

Hope this helps you along... **edit** I see dolo on your list....oops.



NSPB

 

[liquidmaco]

with soils ive decided to take the same approach i do with cooking. i get online, look at 25 different recipes, and make one of my own up that suits my ingredients and cooking gear. of course with this approach you have to keep your head about you, but if you have some experience you should be fine. look at the ratios others are using for each thing you want to use, put it all together in one place and throw it up on icmag with numbers. people will gladly tell you too hot in this not enough this imo so on and so forth. this is a great place for feedback. good luck!

 

[nveevo]

Great advice already given, just want to add a few minor things that come to mind. Without knowing if you are running from seed or cutting. As we all know the genetics of the variety help determine the soil mix, and if possible knowing more specifics about particular specimen if that is possible.

For example some specimens natural environment is rich in humics, or this or that. Some will prefer a medium to dry out more, or keep more moisture. Over time one will begin to become familiar with each specimen within a variety, and can adjust the soil mix from there but having a basic grasp beforehand can be a great asset in of itself and help start off on a nice point.

If you are ever worried about a mix being too hot, and especially if you are starting seeds and not cuttings, there is always the option to make a small mix of a very light mix for starting seeds. This way once an up pot is needed, you can then introduce a hotter mix to the more established plants.

For one, the greensand is an excellent amendment as is the mushroom compost.

In no way is the following a critique of your choices, for without differences the world would be bland; but for the sake of an alternate perspective for a general soil mix without knowing more details about the genetics involved,,,, would switch out a few items.

Swap the peat for coir
Switch the four legged animal products bone and blood meal to seabird or bat guanos, cancel the chicken dinner at the same time.
When sourcing the perlite, use two different size particles in the same mix.

Can you elaborate on the tea you are going to use?

I am thrilled to see your mix, and think it will do great. The most important ingredient is love. Even if you back aches and pit's stink. Love the soil as you love the plants.

When you think it is ready, let it sit another week. Just a small attempt at humor, but really it depends as does much of everything in this world. What temps the mix is setting in, and so forth.

Please protect your lungs when mixing, and if handling certain materials your hands and skin also. Let it breathe.

 

[Bennyweed1]

Wow thanks everyone for all the great help!

I cant tell you how excited I am to hop into the organic world of growing. I liked the cooking reply I got because I agree, organics is just like cooking. You try new things, look at different recipes, add new ingredients, remove certain ingredients, and it all makes a contribution to your end trophy.

come'n isnt that fuckin' exciting?

I intend to try something...

I'ma gonna attach a 1000w hps to a 3.5 6ft light rail, followed up by a 4x4' sun soaker reflector. Before all that hps noise im gonna line up 540w of LED with the intent to make a marijuana assembly line...back'd up by 1500ppm of co2 I envision myself removing 6-8oz weekly......

someone tell me I am crazy

Can I post pics later?

-Benny?

 

[Bennyweed1]

My new improved soil mix:


Coco coir (I would like to use peat instead due to price but I dont like the acidity that comes along with peat. Would that be a problem when using dolo?)
Alflafa
Cotton burr
Kelp meal
Worm castings
Azomite
Oyster shell
Dolomite lime
Epsom salt
Perlite/two grade size

I want to blend my base using coco, alflafa, and cotton burr at a 2:1:1 ratio with perlite/two grade size added until I achieve the correct texture and drainage. Is there something wrong with vermiculite? No one seems to use it, Im just wondering why?

Ill then amend with the kelp,oyster, EWC, Azomite, dolo, and epsom, I suppose I will have to wing the ratios until I find the sweet spot.

I would like to use the kelp in my base mix but it seems to be rather expensive and hard to find.

I seen a grower on this forum grow a plant from start to finish using organic soil he blended. He used pure h2o the entire grow and the plant was as gorgeous as the statue of liberty. I want to be able to do that with my soil but I would still like to use a bloom tea 4-5 times during bloom to supply the carbs when brewing with molasses.

what do you think? You think that modified soil mix has the balls to finish out a plant with minimal feedings?

My teas are going to remain simple because I want to feed the soil. Consisting of high P K seabird or bat guanos (which ever I can locate),pinch of kelp, pinch of alflafa, EWC, molasses and then bubbled for 48 hours using RO D/I h2o.

How am I looking????

-Benny

 

[NSPB]

Vermiculite is really only useful in my opinion for water retention. I'd say if you are going in a very sandy loam, then perhaps some vermiculite, but when making your own soil for potting purposes, it really isn't used or needed...

As far as the rest of it, you seem to be on the right track.

Why are you looking to amend the soil so heavily but still wanting to use teas? In all reality, the molasses isn't really for the plant as much as it is for the micro herd in the soil. It feeds them, helps them multiply, and allows them to really get to work on making nutrients available for the plant to uptake. The excess sugars do act as a bit of a soil sweetener, but much more so in the indirect sense. The real purpose of molasses, is for the herd.



NSPB

 

[grapeman]

Azomite is NOT a substitute for kelp meal. Azomite is not even necessary. Kelp is essential. Azomite just provides many mico elements that you will see small positive results from if all other soil and growing conditions are perfect.

Bring the kelp.

 

[Albertine]

I have seen the words 'coco' in the same sentence as 'mag hog' , so maybe you can get some info on that. Coco is a whole nother learning curve. The acidity in peat is something to learn how to handle too, but there are a lot of experienced people here to help. So much depends on your starting point - your water makeup - if you have high ph/alkaline water you would possibly be better off with peat.

I think getting to the finish without adding more ferts might have a whole lot to do with strategy regarding when you are repotting, and/or ultimate pot size. If you can figure that out, then they could have enough.

 

[NSPB]

Azomite...

Azomite...

Azomite is NOT a substitute for kelp meal. Azomite is not even necessary. Kelp is essential. Azomite just provides many mico elements that you will see small positive results from if all other soil and growing conditions are perfect.

Bring the kelp.

Yes, I stated this in a post just above yours...ALMOST exactly.

However, I will state that azomite, while not "mandatory"...is an excellent product. I use it in my own fertilizer mix.

What you need to understand is the "law of the minimum". Basically, it explains that plant growth is determined by the scarcest "limiting" nutrient, NOT the most available nutrient.

Using azomite adds 70+ different minerals to the soil, all of which COULD contribute to better and stronger plants, when used in conjunction with a properly balanced soil / fertilizer mix. Because it is some where around 65% silicon dioxide, you also get a huge boost in disease resistance and it helps strengthen cellular tissues in the plant.

Honestly, I never want to grow without it again. NOT a substitue for kelp, we can agree on that for certain, but I certainly would not suggest it to be unimportant to the overall mix...



NSPB

 

[Bennyweed1]

Hey thanks for all the input and replies, they have helped me narrow down ingredients and fine tune my mix! Once I get a few my road blocks out of the way I plan on running a perpetual weekly harvest. Harvesting 5 plants a week in 2.3 gallon smart pots I hope to yield 6-8zips every 7 days.

I want to go organic because:
1. The smoke is grade A and natural....durrr
2. It will make watering much easier considering all these girls will mainly need is a lot of RO/DI H20 with an occasional tea
3. Cost far less in the long run


I will be growing:
Reserva Privada kandy kush
G13 Haze
DNA Genetics chocolate lady
DNA Genetics Sour Cream
Pine Apple express
Gigabud
purple lady

The longest flower period is on the kandy kush and G13 haze which requires 12 weeks. So I will have a total of 12 rows of plants all 7 days apart in age, all requiring different harvest times so I need a nice universal soil that can accommodate each plant.

My lighting is pretty simple
1000w HPS with a 4'x4' sun soaker reflector, 6ft light rail, 540w of LED, water cooled co2 generator and I want 6-8 zips a week.
....some may tell me I am dreaming but I think I may be low balling my self.

My plan:
position my LEDs first consisting of weeks 1 and 2, then have the 1000w HPS on the rail to finish up weeks 3-12. Gonna work like an assemble line, plants will be slid down every 7 days until the reach their harvest week.

And finally my new soil blend which is broke down for every 12 gallons; my weekly need.


12 gallon base organic mix

Peat Moss-5 gallons
Perlite/two grade size-3 gallons
Alflafa meal -1 gallon
Cotton burr compost – 1 gallon
Worm castings – 2 gallon


Food source per 12 gallons

Kelp meal – 1 cup
Bone meal- 1 ¾ cup
blood meal- 1 cup
Azomite- ¾ cup
Dolomite lime- 1 ¾ cup
Epsom salt- ½ cup

 

[grapeman]

Yes, I stated this in a post just above yours...ALMOST exactly.

However, I will state that azomite, while not "mandatory"...is an excellent product. I use it in my own fertilizer mix.

What you need to understand is the "law of the minimum". Basically, it explains that plant growth is determined by the scarcest "limiting" nutrient, NOT the most available nutrient.

Using azomite adds 70+ different minerals to the soil, all of which COULD contribute to better and stronger plants, when used in conjunction with a properly balanced soil / fertilizer mix. Because it is some where around 65% silicon dioxide, you also get a huge boost in disease resistance and it helps strengthen cellular tissues in the plant.

Honestly, I never want to grow without it again. NOT a substitue for kelp, we can agree on that for certain, but I certainly would not suggest it to be unimportant to the overall mix...



NSPB

While we agree with the use of azomite (it's in my soil also), my post was intended to inform the original poster that kelp is IMO, FAR more important to his soil then azomite. Many of these trace elements are to be found in other products. What makes azomite unique is the fact that it is a blend of many trace elements in a single product. Long before you get to any limiting factor in plant growth of a trace element, you will deal with many many other things. I highly doubt that anyone has really obtained that level of perfection.

That's pretty much why they are known as "trace" elements. Otherwise NOT necessary to grow good and successful crops in most soils.

 

[Bennyweed1]

So this is a battle of wits I suppose and all I asked was a simple question. Whos di*k is bigger!! haha its all good though I guess, I really dont care at the end of the day.

 

[NSPB]

nah....Benny...please it isn't like that at ALL.

There is nothing more important to me than making sure that people can grow the very best cannabis possible. That being said, my only intent was NOT to belittle any other grower or their own personal pursuit of such a goal. My only intent was to stress that azomite is a great product, and should NOT be left out.

I agree completely with Grapeman in the fact that azomite is not "mandatory" and kelp is actually a MUST. (anyone who doesn't think so is missing out)

However, to help you and your own pursuit of producing the best medicine possible, well, keep the azomite in the mix.



NSPB

 

[JackTheGrower]

I am experimenting with a bale of mix peat moss and coco coir.. To that I mix in used Starbucks coffee ( free )
Oh I add all the good stuff too like bone meal and green sand, azomite and kelp meal plus more things but that base is bioactive from the start!

Hardly needs any encouragement to fire up!