ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[JJScorpio]

Isn't it time both sides start backing each other?

 

[Smoke Buddy]

no i quoted you because your post gave me an epiphany.

1- people in med states, not california, with restrictive medical marijuana laws might not understand why some california bud smokers would be against 19.

2- those same people might feel that california med users are abusing 215, not understanding how openly worded 215 was on purpose.

3- maybe those people feel that because cali passed a med law, their state passed a med law, and if cali passes a "legalization" law, then their state will do the same.

4- those people could be haters who are upset that californians get to use their med laws as an interim to legalization, while their own med laws cant be used that way.

Im glad I could provide something useful. ie: epiphany

Totally agree with your post bro, It makes perfect sense that folks would feel that way.

 

[dagnabit]

no i quoted you because your post gave me an epiphany.

1- people in med states, not california, with restrictive medical marijuana laws might not understand why some california bud smokers would be against 19.

2- those same people might feel that california med users are abusing 215, not understanding how openly worded 215 was on purpose.

3- maybe those people feel that because cali passed a med law, their state passed a med law, and if cali passes a "legalization" law, then their state will do the same.

4- those people could be haters who are upset that californians get to use their med laws as an interim to legalization, while their own med laws cant be used that way.

5. have fought to get mmj on the ballot in other states and seen and heard the governor and state reps point to the (mis)perceptions of abuse.

again im not saying its right but perception is reality and if we are to be good stewards and good humans who actually give a shit about the plight of others we WILL consider those perceptions by the majority as we act.

 

[localhero]

5. have fought to get mmj on the ballot in other states and seen and heard the governor and state reps point to the (mis)perceptions of abuse.

again im not saying its right but perception is reality and if we are to be good stewards and good humans who actually give a shit about the plight of others we WILL consider those perceptions by the majority as we act.

the ONLY reason i will vote yes on 19 is becasue of that perception/reality concept. the uninformed masses will MAYBE see 19 failing as a referendum on pot.

about your point number 5....

i am completely against making concessions on bills that will never turn your opposition.

for one, lets take the example of other states making mmj props and then excluding the free and open wording that 215 had. why did they do that? would it have mattered? would the person you think you so badly need to convince to vote yes on it have ever voted yes?

i dont see the need to exclude rights or batten down the hatches or compromise with an opposition who will never vote your way ever. you know why? because if med in cali were super strict, the same guy who was pointing and yelling that med is used as legalization, will now be pointing and yelling that med is a gateway to legalization.

thats like painting obama white so that some kkk guy will vote for him. shh but obama is still a democrat and the kkk guy wouldnt vote for a dem anyways.

 

[dagnabit]

the ONLY reason i will vote yes on 19 is becasue of that perception/reality concept. the uninformed masses will MAYBE see 19 failing as a referendum on pot.

about your point number 5....

i am completely against making concessions on bills that will never turn your opposition.

for one, lets take the example of other states making mmj props and then excluding the free and open wording that 215 had. why did they do that? would it have mattered? would the person you think you so badly need to convince to vote yes on it have ever voted yes?

i dont see the need to exclude rights or batten down the hatches or compromise with an opposition who will never vote your way ever. you know why? because if med in cali were super strict, the same guy who was pointing and yelling that med is used as legalization, will now be pointing and yelling that med is a gateway to legalization.

thats like painting obama white so that some kkk guy will vote for him. shh but obama is still a democrat and the kkk guy wouldnt vote for a dem anyways.

except things DO change and public perceptions DO change.
and politicians do not believe ANYTHING but what the polls tell them.

yesterday's drug war hawks are quickly becoming today's legalization activists..

hell glen beck supports legalization ffs!!!!!

 

[binaryfission]

heres the main commercial positions 19 opens up as i understand:

cultivator
smoke lounge
retail store (non med co-op)
seed and clones suppliers
hemp cultivation

so im sure the cities will regulate differently for each.

a lounge that allowed you to bring your own and grab a coffee, chill out whatever, but not sell cannabis would probably only be constrained by zoning laws and not a hefty licensing fee.

a retail outlet, like a liquor store, would probably come at a high licensing fee, and zoning restrictions + local mandatory tax on cannabis sold.

a commercial cultivation operation would probably be subject to regulation similar to how a hog farm has to comply with health and safety guidelines. maybe thats a terrible analogy, but u get the idea. im sure this type of venture would be the big prize as far as being expensive and or exclusionary.

the seed sellers would probably have it the best. they arent selling smokeable/consumeable product.

the hemp farmers would probably have relatively loose guidelines and far easier licensing hurdles, than the cannabis for consumption folks.

huge market for edibles and hashish. so

baker
and
resin refiner/ Curer of Resins.

 

[igrowone]

not that this will sweeten the rhetoric, but of the polls i've seen on prop 19 on here and other grow sites
i think the max number of respondents was maybe 200, if that
these conversations do have their uses, but what a tiny microcosm we are

 

[vta]

not that this will sweeten the rhetoric, but of the polls i've seen on prop 19 on here and other grow sites
i think the max number of respondents was maybe 200, if that
these conversations do have their uses, but what a tiny microcosm we are

Because a lot of growers are against legalization.

Jack posted the latest "public" poll and 19 is winning by 10 points. That one started with 1000 and ended up polling over 600 registered 'persons likely to vote'.

It also pointed out something else, here is my post...

"Like other recent telephone polls, today's Survey USA poll shows higher levels of support for legalization than the face-to-face polls, suggesting that some potential voters are reluctant to say they support a controversial idea like legalization, but may do so in the privacy of the voting booth."

I think the Media, as well as most people are ignoring the "closet voters". Cannabis users make up the most diverse group of illicit drug users. They are also a very good chuck of the population. I think 19 may win by a wider margin.

 

[blancorasta]

hey rives

You mean that the liberal laws here are causing some states to refrain from a mmj program?
I know the real anti-canna folks will spin it to try and make that reality but Ive seen a steady turn to mmj in this country since we voted it in. Im sure that if a state is ready for it in the voting booth it will happen, if not, then no. I disagree we are giving it a bad name but if we are, theres nothing we can do about it. 215 is for anyone that can benefit from cannabis. I dont mind everybody using the law to go get a card at all. Thats the whole point. On top of the compassion for the terminally ill, we have allowed people to use it medicinally for a plethora of maladies.

Wouldnt 19 give the naysayers elsewhere even more fuel in terms of if what you guys say is coming is real, the tourism, coffeeshops, etc etc, by letting them point to that and say look what is happening in cali. Theyve gone rouge... drug use is rampant... Im just saying those asshats are always waiting in the wings to spin it up...

anyway there are alot of ways to look at the variuos aspects of this and you, nor anyone else here is my enemy...

peace

Wrong. 215 was voted in by California voters for "seriously ill Californians", just as it says in the first six words of the prop.

A) To ensure that seriously ill Californians have the right to obtain and use marijuana for medical purposes where that medical use is deemed appropriate and has been recommended by a physician who has determined that the persons health would benefit from the use of marijuana in the treatment of cancer, anorexia, AIDS, chronic pain, spasticity, glaucoma, arthritis, migraine or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.

well i guess it breaks down to how you interpret this part \/

or any other illness for which marijuana provides relief.

should citizens just continue to suffer symptoms from illnesses; no matter how mundane, when there is a safe and natural way to provide relief...cannabis, because their illness doesn't make the cut as "serious" enough?

I believe thats where the "compassionate" part comes into prop 215 AKA "the compassion act".

peace

 

[igrowone]

on the MMJ note, NY is quite close to getting it through and it's interesting how its stated
it isn't that far from 215 except in one important part, it does not allow for the 'or any condition', they were quite careful on that
NY's may actually be a pretty fair MMJ(if we get it passed), but it won't be prop 215 - part 2

 

[vta]

on the MMJ note, NY is quite close to getting it through and it's interesting how its stated
it isn't that far from 215 except in one important part, it does not allow for the 'or any condition', they were quite careful on that
NY's may actually be a pretty fair MMJ(if we get it passed), but it won't be prop 215 - part 2

That is too bad...that means the gov has more control than the Dr.

So now a Dr. who would recommend cannabis for an unlisted condition cannot. Bummer.

 

[gaiusmarius]

Isn't it time both sides start backing each other?

this is actually so so very very true, we have to work together. the oldest trick in the book is divide and conquer.

despite being upset when my views are not comprehended or understood, i do believe 19 has to be passed, i do feel comfortable that med gardens are protected so in the end 19 will offer the best of both worlds. it really should end up protecting everyone better, so there is no reason not to work together, in fact there is every reason to work together.

we can all see that not passing 19 will put the whole movement back. there is nothing worse for a cause, then to be voted on and lose the vote.

 

[rives]

Wrong??? Nope, anyhow here is something that may help. Ill send you the link if you want. Its pretty solid at this point. Nearly a decade and a half its been this way. Legal wording can be confusing but the word OR is in ther big as shit and judges always look at OR...

You are missing the point here (intentionally perhaps?). What I am saying is that for most of the voters in the red portions of California, and for a whole generation of voters (my mother for instance, because she knew how much it would have helped her sister-in-law to have had access to mj when undergoing chemo), the intent was to help the people specified in those first six words. It has done it's job in helping to get mj more socially acceptable, and now people who arguably have no real reason to have access to mmj are saying that they will vote no on 19. I think it's bullshit.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Was marijuana ever a "free for all" with zero regulation? Why did this change? Who did it benefit and why?

I don't think it will get back where it should be. I also don't think this law is even close to where it should be for me to accept it.

If I am selling cannabis and I do not "volunteer" to pay a percentage of my earnings to the government who overpays corporations that take the bulk of the payment out of the community as corporate profits what happens to me? Who enacted the laws that will punish me for not volunteering to pay my taxes? Politicians backed by corporate money, aka fascists.

Review the history.

We had many threads on this. Mostly it was about Racism.

 

[JackTheGrower]

But 19 is legalization for those that stay within the boundaries allowed. And would be protection against arrest.

Possibly. If a man is found to have 8 packaged 8ths in his pocket on the street you can bet he is subject to arrest especially if he is Black.

 

[JackTheGrower]

You should read the Bill. Cities have no say regarding personal use within someones home or growing for personal use.

They only have say regarding the commercial issues.

7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9. 8.

Are you in the MM Business?

This is not true local Government can set standards for your garden. They can prohibit any Gardens being outside or even that you have to have your garden inspected by the city once a year for fire hazards.

Silly stuff like that. Guys I live in the Central Valley we are a Republican stronghold where people work really hard and a paid little with no rights to a job.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Isn't it time both sides start backing each other?

The nature of this is the 50/50 realm.. The best Pro Prop19ers can do is promise us True Freedom people they won't get lazy after Prop 19 is vote on.

Promise us we have you and the support of this site to promote a better Initiative in 2012.. That is all I ask.

 

[BigBudBill]

You are missing the point here (intentionally perhaps?). What I am saying is that for most of the voters in the red portions of California, and for a whole generation of voters (my mother for instance, because she knew how much it would have helped her sister-in-law to have had access to mj when undergoing chemo), the intent was to help the people specified in those first six words. It has done it's job in helping to get mj more socially acceptable, and now people who arguably have no real reason to have access to mmj are saying that they will vote no on 19. I think it's bullshit.

It is. The people who got rec the first 5 years or so know what kind of hoops we had to jump through to make sure we were legit. And the risks that were present then... Everyone was scrutinized. Feds were following people buying cuts from Oakland. Doctors records seized.
Look at the change of focus:
15 years ago it was the growers. 12 years ago it was the doctors. 9-10 years ago it was all clubs and collectives. The last few years it has been dispensaries in SoCal, with a concentration on the worst "offenders".

Those people led the way and the current political climate that has lead to the liberal medical cannabis policies is just a way to wedge the door open more and more. But those people that have recently enjoyed that ease of acces to mmj damn sure shouldn't be a force opposing that wedge.

The battle lines are changing. We have been complacent recently. If we dont continue to challenge the front, we will stagnate and ultimately fail. If we draw the battle out in an attempt to get better positioning, we are allowing them(the True Believers) time as well. This may be a time we point to later as the tipping point.

 

[BigBudBill]

Possibly. If a man is found to have 8 packaged 8ths in his pocket on the street you can bet he is subject to arrest especially if he is Black.

There will be lots of challenges of arrests like this if 19 passes. When 19 passes we really need to press issues like this.

Brother man goes into the local shop and buys 8 Bad ass strains and walks out and gets arrested? Rogue cops waiting down the street?

Wonder if Omar and Margolin(s) are ready for some of those cases?

 

[igrowone]

The battle lines are changing. We have been complacent recently. If we dont continue to challenge the front, we will stagnate and ultimately fail. If we draw the battle out in an attempt to get better positioning, we are allowing them(the True Believers) time as well. This may be a time we point to later as the tipping point.

this is so dead on, it's all connected and we need to keep moving forward
pass prop 19, and in the next legislative term NY will almost certainly pass MMJ
not because they care all that much about that, but because the huge impact that 19's passing will have on the national perception
MMJ in NY becomes small change, hardly anyone will notice(at the time), which is what politicians want on this
and NY is big in this deal, still big population, and plenty of impact on the rest on the eastern seaboard