ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010

[CrazyCooter]

Just wondering CC,
Do you buy alcohol?
clothing?
gasoline?
automobiles?
Or any other Taxed or Regulated products?
Or are you also really against them all, each and every one?

I asked you this before in the same thread but no answer from you yet......

-SamS

I am against the tax structure set up in California and am against any bill that raises taxes on Californians. Alcohol, overtaxed. Gasoline, overtaxed. Automobiles, overtaxed. Taxes and regulations, too many and getting worse. So yes, I am against all these taxes, not the products. Our tax system is set up to take wealth from the worker and transfer it to the corporate owners. Land is the only thing a "free market" needs to tax to level the playing field for all participants in the system.

Do you only get a bottle of whiskey or a case of beer to possess for personal consumption? Why only an ounce under 19?

"If all you care is about profits for growers, then vote NO, and screw Cannabis ever being normalized, money is much more important."

Who are these growers and where will the profits go? Mom and pop's profits will still be made, only now by big business with a government tax of approval. These profits will now leave many "greedy" growers in poverty and will no longer stay in the community of the "greedy" growers. Corporations with big budgets for lobbying will help pass legislation in the various municipalities that are prohibitive to small cannabis growers.

Money is more important than legalization, at least to the government you are asking to stop oppressing you.

The reason I ever responded to this post originally is that someone postulated that the only reason someone on this board could be against 19 is that they are "greedy" growers that are working with leo to have fellow cannabis users thrown in jail to make more money. I disagree on several points but they have all been thoroughly debunked.

1. This law is too restrictive.

Debunked- It is better than nothing.

2. This law will transfer wealth from California workers to corporate scum.

Debunked- That what happens. Adapt.

3. The law is so vague nobody really knows what will happen.

Debunked- "I see it as the new Disneyland for stoners. Imagine ..."

I am a no voter, meaning I don't support the fascists by showing up at the polls so their schemes can be validated by the majority of the indoctrinated voters. It is possible that there are other valid viewpoints besides let's jump in bed with the people currently oppressing us. Calling the growers "greedy" because they have been successful at overgrowing the government the last 50 years is childish to say the least.

It appears that most on this thread cannot even comprehend other points of view without bias, bigotry, and attacks against the other side for having a different opinion. Most posters in the "yes" category are acting quite possessed with the political spirit of "morality" and being "right" on their side. Scary what people will do when they "know" they are "right" and state sponsored programming takes over to fill their "moral" void.

Calling the people that are fueling this movement greedy because of concerns too complex for the twenty something year old stoners to comprehend is a political move to garner support for a shitty law.

 

[JJScorpio]

See, here's the problem. You have guys like Cooter, sitting home all day selling a half dozen 60 dollar eighths. That's $360.00 a day, tax free at that. Roughly $2 grand a week, $100 grand a year. All tax free I might add. All the while trying to snow people with this fascist talk. When in truth, who's really the fascist? Who wants everyone else to pay the taxes while he enjoys the privileges these taxes supply?

He knows if 19 passes, these people that he's been charging $60 bucks an eighth will start growing their own. And he knows that makes the playing field even. And old Cooter don't like the thought of that.

Is that pretty close Cooter?

 

[JJScorpio]

This threads even exposed what's going on within these forums.

I don't know if anyone noticed, but yesterday a bunch of people got the axe. Seems we had, and still have a whole lot of people within the med forums that have been using this site to sell clones, seeds and bud. And do you think any of them offered to help with the bandwidth? Not a chance.

So now they've ruined it for eveyone else. These forums aren't going to exist much longer. We're going to have to go back to the old format. Seems some think this med program isn't any of our busines yet they've been using this site to conduct business. Those days are coming to an end. And when other people get caught for what they've been doing, they'll get the axe to.

Another case of a select few ruining it for the many......

 

[rick shaw]

When 215 passed I knew several dealers that were crying.The"I burned my draft card but kept my food stamps" mentality is childish.

 

[nomaad]

Good post, Cooter.

I can respect opposition to this bill on the basis that you claim.

JJ: the greed argument (complete with oversimplified math) just don't fly for me. People are entitled to more complex reasoning and political beliefs when deciding how to vote.

 

[JJScorpio]

Good post, Cooter.

I can respect opposition to this bill on the basis that you claim.

JJ: the greed argument (complete with oversimplified math) just don't fly for me. People are entitled to more complex reasoning and political beliefs when deciding how to vote.

But is it a reason why some people want this Bill to fail? And be honest. Not that you wouldn't be, lol......

 

[JJScorpio]

It just seems to me that Cooter thinks anyone that has worked hard and done something with their lives, and has money is either a fascist or scum.

If a businessman wants to gamble and invest his money into this program to enter the commercial aspect does this make him a fascist or scum?

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

,

Who are these growers and where will the profits go? Mom and pop's profits will still be made, only now by big business with a government tax of approval. These profits will now leave many "greedy" growers in poverty and will no longer stay in the community of the "greedy" growers. Corporations with big budgets for lobbying will help pass legislation in the various municipalities that are prohibitive to small cannabis growers.

Money is more important than legalization, at least to the government you are asking to stop oppressing you.

The reason I ever responded to this post originally is that someone postulated that the only reason someone on this board could be against 19 is that they are "greedy" growers that are working with leo to have fellow cannabis users thrown in jail to make more money. I disagree on several points but they have all been thoroughly debunked.

1. This law is too restrictive.

Debunked- It is better than nothing.

2. This law will transfer wealth from California workers to corporate scum.

Debunked- That what happens. Adapt.

3. The law is so vague nobody really knows what will happen.

Debunked- "I see it as the new Disneyland for stoners. Imagine ..."

I am a no voter, meaning I don't support the fascists by showing up at the polls so their schemes can be validated by the majority of the indoctrinated voters. It is possible that there are other valid viewpoints besides let's jump in bed with the people currently oppressing us. Calling the growers "greedy" because they have been successful at overgrowing the government the last 50 years is childish to say the least.

It appears that most on this thread cannot even comprehend other points of view without bias, bigotry, and attacks against the other side for having a different opinion. Most posters in the "yes" category are acting quite possessed with the political spirit of "morality" and being "right" on their side. Scary what people will do when they "know" they are "right" and state sponsored programming takes over to fill their "moral" void.

Calling the people that are fueling this movement greedy because of concerns too complex for the twenty something year old stoners to comprehend is a political move to garner support for a shitty law.

I keep hearing all this talk of big corporations, government fascists, and bug biz juggernauts...

Who are they? Name names. I've heard a few large size warehouses, but really that's nothing new.

Those big scary fascist with their fascist money and big bully biz...

Who are you Glenn beck? I bet you would already be fake crying if we were talking in person....

215 has been here for almost 15 years, so why haven't they come in already??

Oh wait, because it's FEDERALLY ILLEGAL. So what corporation is going to risk their fortune on weed...?

CC you ever read the book "chicken little"?



PS: Growers fueling the movement? Then why has nothing been done in the last 15 years? Seems to me if Lee never ponied up the money nothing would ever happend. Because let's face it, these growers are pretty damn happy growing ad much as they want and selling it tax free to dealers and dispensaries under the guise that it's "medicinal"....

So don't try to feed me some sucker story about growers being some kind of freedom fighters. Look at all the people up north crying about their mortgage and making stickers that say "just vote no".

Well shit ID love to live up in the hills and not work a real job, unfortunatly is called reality son. You guys are living a paradise up there at the expense of everyone else and now your grasping at straws because your seeing your free ride slowly sliding away...

...and shit if any mom and pop growers will get the chance to go big it will be the people in the emerald triangle who have been banging away for years. Who do you think is going to create the most liberal laws to produce? It's always been the triangle...

 

[BigBudBill]

Fear tactics from the no side. This country LOVES to predict doom and gloom.

 

[gaiusmarius]

so now we have a chance of 19, it seems ic mag admin is no longer friends with the medical community? is that correct? because they don't grass them selves to the irs, that most noble institution? and wow those bastards even dare to trade clones amongst themselves! well seems things are changing for 215'ers after all, even before 19 has passed. they are going on JJ's list for one (evil greedy growers list) it seems some people are happier with the cartels making the money on cannabis, or the government, but oh no, never let the people profit, no matter that they have risked jail and all the hassle to do so. some people seem to be basing their thinking on 19 having already passed. it's not like being a grower for others was limited to certain people, anyone could do it in Cali. man it makes me sick to see all this judgmental ranting and presenting everything as black and white while refusing to even acknowledge there might be more then one side to this whole issue. i never thought i'd have to defend growers making a profit from their growing here on ic mag.

do you really think even after 19 everyone will grow who wants to smoke? no way, most will buy and smoke just like they do now. so if no one is allowed to do big ops to supply those smokers, the price might even go up, specially on slow flowering sativas, if anyone even bothers keeping low yielding strains anymore. those thinking the big corps will take care of supplying us, you are wrong the big corps will not want to be in conflict with federal laws and will not get involved till that side of things is cleared up.

further more once government regulation gets involved it never gets less it always increases till the tax is 90% of the selling price. cigs aren't getting cheaper nor is alcohol or other heavily regulated stuff.

 

[rick shaw]

Meanwhile here are some thoughts from those that do not till the soil.At Sundays legal convention U.S.Attorney Joesph Russoniello stated "If Prop19 passes there will be more prosecutions on the federal level" Last night the California Chamber Of Commerce (same dousche bags that convinced Schwarchnager to veto mmj workplace protection) said "If Prop 19 passes more workplace injuries will result,and employers risk losing federal contracts." One thing is guarantied for the next 90 days California will be at the center of the world.

 

[dagnabit]

and wow those bastards even dare to trade clones amongst themselves!

this endangers the ENTIRE site!

this is part of what got OG shut down (and myself and several others BUSTED)
i personally just got off probation because of what happened behind the rampant distribution that caused OG to get taken down.

not to mention the TOU.

 

[dagnabit]

1. This law is too restrictive.

Nothing is more restrictive than absolute prohibition and 215 requires me to register my federal felony with the state government(thereby violating my fifth amendment right against self incrimination) to enjoy the benefit of "protection"(read:extortion) from arrest and seizure( violation of the fourth).

this law lessens restrictions.

2. This law will transfer wealth from California workers to corporate scum.
this "law" transfers nothing to anyone.
except maybe the power to the people to SELF GOVERN at the municipal level!!!
you dont like how your county handles it? it's a whole lot easier to change a county commissioner than a state rep.

3. The law is so vague nobody really knows what will happen.
you < nobody

you may not understand the law but you are not everyone.

i have presented you with the quotes in context to back every single stance i have taken.
and you have chosen to pretend the posts do not exist and continue right along.

ill ask a direct question...

do you believe marijuana will ever be a free for all with absolutely zero regulation?

how exactly is a voluntary consumption tax fascism?

 

[TruthOrLie]

It seems to me this is exactly the spirit of Prop 19. Let users grow their own, eliminate the commercial grower - unless he wants to pay a fat tax. This right here should be what keeps price deflation in check.

If you want to continue to break the law of Prop 215, SB420, or Prop 19, then there will be penalties just as there are now.

 

[rick shaw]

In the U.S.A. everything is regulated.The same people that say we should not regulate things,are the ones who feel prisons should be eliminated.I have been to prison twice,I am glad we have prisons and regulations.

 

[JJScorpio]

so now we have a chance of 19, it seems ic mag admin is no longer friends with the medical community? is that correct? because they don't grass them selves to the irs, that most noble institution? and wow those bastards even dare to trade clones amongst themselves! well seems things are changing for 215'ers after all, even before 19 has passed. they are going on JJ's list for one (evil greedy growers list) it seems some people are happier with the cartels making the money on cannabis, or the government, but oh no, never let the people profit, no matter that they have risked jail and all the hassle to do so.

I guess you missed this part. "Seems we had, and still have a whole lot of people within the med forums that have been using this site to sell clones, seeds and bud."

Yea, I guess we've really been against the 215 and med people in other States. We paid a Webmaster to have their own forums set up for them so they could trade clones and discuss the medical aspect of their positions with other 215 and med members in their respective States.

So yesterday we received reported posts that these forums were now selling seeds, clones and bud to other members, which you should know is against the TOU and even more important a security problem of members giving out their personal information.

So no, I don't think ICMag nor administration has been, or will ever be against 215 or any other med members. So I have no idea what the meaning of your post is. But if anyone thinks that we're going to allow those violations of the TOU or be accused of being against med patients then they're mistaken.

In truth, it's our hope that these two groups and it's laws can continue to strive simultaneously. But it's become painfully obvious there's a real seperation happening regarding these two Bills and the people supporting them.....

 

[gaiusmarius]

I guess you missed this part. "Seems we had, and still have a whole lot of people within the med forums that have been using this site to sell clones, seeds and bud."

Yea, I guess we've really been against the 215 and med people in other States. We paid a Webmaster to have their own forums set up for them so they could trade clones and discuss the medical aspect of their positions with other 215 and med members in their respective States.

So yesterday we received reported posts that these forums were now selling seeds, clones and bud to other members, which you should know is against the TOU and even more important a security problem of members giving out their personal information.

So no, I don't think ICMag nor administration has been, or will ever be against 215 or any other med members. So I have no idea what the meaning of your post is. But if anyone thinks that we're going to allow those violations of the TOU or be accused of being against med patients then they're mistaken.

In truth, it's our hope that these two groups and it's laws can continue to strive simultaneously. But it's become painfully obvious there's a real seperation happening regarding these two Bills and the people supporting them.....

yeah sadly there does seem to be a separation happening and a demonization too.

the tou is of course to be upheld at all times. remember i reported clone selling on someones profile a week or so ago and every other time i saw any tou violations.

 

[krunchbubble]

so now we have a chance of 19, it seems ic mag admin is no longer friends with the medical community? is that correct? because they don't grass them selves to the irs, that most noble institution? and wow those bastards even dare to trade clones amongst themselves! well seems things are changing for 215'ers after all, even before 19 has passed. they are going on JJ's list for one (evil greedy growers list) it seems some people are happier with the cartels making the money on cannabis, or the government, but oh no, never let the people profit, no matter that they have risked jail and all the hassle to do so. some people seem to be basing their thinking on 19 having already passed. it's not like being a grower for others was limited to certain people, anyone could do it in Cali. man it makes me sick to see all this judgmental ranting and presenting everything as black and white while refusing to even acknowledge there might be more then one side to this whole issue. i never thought i'd have to defend growers making a profit from their growing here on ic mag.

do you really think even after 19 everyone will grow who wants to smoke? no way, most will buy and smoke just like they do now. so if no one is allowed to do big ops to supply those smokers, the price might even go up, specially on slow flowering sativas, if anyone even bothers keeping low yielding strains anymore. those thinking the big corps will take care of supplying us, you are wrong the big corps will not want to be in conflict with federal laws and will not get involved till that side of things is cleared up.

further more once government regulation gets involved it never gets less it always increases till the tax is 90% of the selling price. cigs aren't getting cheaper nor is alcohol or other heavily regulated stuff.

outstanding post......

 

[dagnabit]

outstanding post......

really ?


WHY?

 

[JJScorpio]

To those that think they are protected under 215, you might want to ask Krunchbubble if those laws protect you....