Legalize MJ ! Really? No I mean REALLY?

[grapeman]

let me help with your assumption problem...

i vote in cali
im a teenager with a few decades experience
and as for work in the morning..i dont do that anymore..retirement is grand.

you never could explain how me being able to grow my own smoke in my own home hurts you soooo bad?

maybe with a little experience that chip on your shoulder will fall off...

I guess you still haven't grasped the fact that I am a libertarian. I don't care what you do. As long as it does no damage to me or mine, more power to you. but if you cheerlead for a law that raises my taxes in any way, mj or not, I will disagree with you.

And btw, the cohort I refer to that lives out of state was you back up singer Anti. I believe you do live in the fascist state of California.

Your narrow views and failure to see any bigger picture about the growth of government are the main reason our state sucks and we now have a socialist who has never worked a day in his life as our president.

 

[Thundurkel]

I keep hearing greedy this and lazy that but what about all the new rules that will put folks in jail for using Cannabis? Why are folks not fighting for our 18-20 year old user's who can legally die in Iraq but wouldn't be legal under this bill? The zoning laws that are going to go into place? Who they plan to keep out of the picture ect. The government and Richard Lee are sucking each other off in anticipation of how much money is going to get funneled straight to them!!! They scream about taxes but WHAT ABOUT ALL THE POUNDS BEING TAXED EVERY DAY IN THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES????? Vote NO! Vote NO! Vote NO!

There are a few hundred thousand people that are making their living in the Medical Marijuana scene whether they be disabled and can't hold a normal job or have anxiety and depression and can't get a job cuz they wont allow them to be medicated at work! Also what about all the KIDS? I guess you folks in other states are so worried about your laws being influenced by what we do out here I take it you just forget that there are TONS of kids that are fed and clothed and who's schools even are funded by the money of Medical Marijuana. You guys forget that 60-80% of growers out here started up due to the economy going to shit with the housing crisis that Wall Street engineered and are JUST NOW getting caught up and able to live comfortably. But now the government is like nah fuck you guys the whole plan was to keep you in debt all your life and never really own anything. They don't want the average construction workers and restaurant employee's owning property in prime Cannabis growing area's cuz that's where their buddies are going to set up shop and take over the game. I can only hope that there will be like Samuel Adams and Sierra Nevada type companies able to make it or this is gonna be shitty for everybody not just growers but smokers included. I mean look at Budweiser they have 5 flavors or so?? I worked in a brewery and saw how many different types of beers can be made but NO! Commercialized stuff SUCKS!!! They leave you with hardly any choices and I don't want to hear "dude they got money they'll have hella shit going on" I don't thinks so buddy cuz if that was the case then why don't they do that with beer? I know that EVERY single time a beer drinker came in for the first time and they were a Bud Lite or MGD drinker they would be in amazement at how much more flavor and how much more smoother it was ect. The reason they don't offer a large range of flavors is cuz it costs more in the end to make they are just all about the money....

 

[Hazelnuts]

I guess you still haven't grasped the fact that I am a libertarian. I don't care what you do. As long as it does no damage to me or mine, more power to you. but if you cheerlead for a law that raises my taxes in any way, mj or not, I will disagree with you.

And btw, the cohort I refer to that lives out of state was you back up singer Anti. I believe you do live in the fascist state of California.

Your narrow views and failure to see any bigger picture about the growth of government are the main reason our state sucks and we now have a socialist who has never worked a day in his life as our president.

You're one bad ass.
[/sarcasm]

Legal marijuana under prop 19 might raise your de iure taxes, but the price of weed will still drop, which means you'll be spending LESS MONEY bottom line. If you don't think that's gonna be the case, you really, really need to go back to high school economics. And under a completely libertarian system, society would collapse and bury you and everyone else along with you under itself. I agree with you on the sentiment that a growing government is hardly ever good, but if you think that Obama is either a socialist or has never worked a day in his life, you're really fucking naive. Socialism means that the state does EVERYTHING for you. Last time I checked, the constitution was still in power, despite such HORRIBLE HORRIBLE things as health care for fucking everyone, and you still have your rights in most cases. Of course there are some very discomforting tendencies, such as the ACTA (look it up) that's being discussed right now, but as a whole (apart from drug laws, derp), you're still doing pretty well when it comes to civil liberties. And about the whole "against anything that will raise my taxes" thing, that's just plain naive. In the economic situation that we're in, that kind of thinking is exactly what fucks a country up even more. Right now, you have communities destroying roads they built 30 or 40 years ago, because they can't afford to maintain them anymore. Where do you think the money for that is gonna come from? While I'm all for a small government, you have to realize that there's still some things it HAS to do, among them maintaining roads, public safety (yes, that's a wide field, but I don't mean it the way Reagan would mean it) and especially a good education. If you think that shit should all be privatized, then you're really delusional.

Tl;dr:
libertarianism isn't perfect

I keep hearing greedy this and lazy that but what about all the new rules that will put folks in jail for using Cannabis? Why are folks not fighting for our 18-20 year old user's who can legally die in Iraq but wouldn't be legal under this bill? The zoning laws that are going to go into place? Who they plan to keep out of the picture ect. The government and Richard Lee are sucking each other off in anticipation of how much money is going to get funneled straight to them!!! They scream about taxes but WHAT ABOUT ALL THE POUNDS BEING TAXED EVERY DAY IN THE MEDICAL MARIJUANA DISPENSARIES????? Vote NO! Vote NO! Vote NO!

There are a few hundred thousand people that are making their living in the Medical Marijuana scene whether they be disabled and can't hold a normal job or have anxiety and depression and can't get a job cuz they wont allow them to be medicated at work! Also what about all the KIDS? I guess you folks in other states are so worried about your laws being influenced by what we do out here I take it you just forget that there are TONS of kids that are fed and clothed and who's schools even are funded by the money of Medical Marijuana. You guys forget that 60-80% of growers out here started up due to the economy going to shit with the housing crisis that Wall Street engineered and are JUST NOW getting caught up and able to live comfortably. But now the government is like nah fuck you guys the whole plan was to keep you in debt all your life and never really own anything. They don't want the average construction workers and restaurant employee's owning property in prime Cannabis growing area's cuz that's where their buddies are going to set up shop and take over the game. I can only hope that there will be like Samuel Adams and Sierra Nevada type companies able to make it or this is gonna be shitty for everybody not just growers but smokers included. I mean look at Budweiser they have 5 flavors or so?? I worked in a brewery and saw how many different types of beers can be made but NO! Commercialized stuff SUCKS!!! They leave you with hardly any choices and I don't want to hear "dude they got money they'll have hella shit going on" I don't thinks so buddy cuz if that was the case then why don't they do that with beer? I know that EVERY single time a beer drinker came in for the first time and they were a Bud Lite or MGD drinker they would be in amazement at how much more flavor and how much more smoother it was ect. The reason they don't offer a large range of flavors is cuz it costs more in the end to make they are just all about the money....

Hey man, put this in your pipe and smoke it:

MEDICAL MARIJUANA UNDER PROP 215 IS NOT GOING TO BE AFFECTED IN ANY WAY BY PROP 19

And no one's gonna be forcing you to smoke the commercialized stuff, you can GROW AT YOUR HOME. LEGALLY. IN A 5X5 AREA, which is more than enough to grow a pound every three months. And there's gonna be lots of smaller scale growers growing the dank. Also, the 18-20 year old smokers are being made outlaws already today, so I really don't know what you're going on about. Under prop 215, which will still be in effect (!!!!!), they can get their card with 18 no probs, and we all know how fucking easy that is. I really can't see your problem.

Seriously, all you people need to get educated before spewing bullshit.

 

[dagnabit]

I guess you still haven't grasped the fact that I am a libertarian. I don't care what you do. As long as it does no damage to me or mine, more power to you. but if you cheerlead for a law that raises my taxes in any way, mj or not, I will disagree with you.

And btw, the cohort I refer to that lives out of state was you back up singer Anti. I believe you do live in the fascist state of California.

Your narrow views and failure to see any bigger picture about the growth of government are the main reason our state sucks and we now have a socialist who has never worked a day in his life as our president.

dont blame me i voted for bob barr (in hopes he would die and Wayne Allen Root would take over)

the only tax imposed is on purchases...grow your own smoke and pay no tax.
so a completely voluntary tax effects you negatively how exactly?

nice try on "raising your taxes" though..do you purchase alot of pot?

 

[dagnabit]

i wonder how much pot these folks think R.Lee can produce?

1000 lbs a day?(is that what a half pound per square foot a day?)

that would cover .001% of cali's consumption needs?

your hateraid is turning sour if you think r.lee is going to "corner the market" LOL

 

[igrowone]

i wonder how much pot these folks think R.Lee can produce?

1000 lbs a day?(is that what a half pound per square foot a day?)

that would cover .001% of cali's consumption needs?

your hateraid is turning sour if you think r.lee is going to "corner the market" LOL

who knows where the rationalization came from
but just look at history, many revolutions have turned on their own

 

[ReelBusy1]

who knows where the rationalization came from
but just look at history, many revolutions have turned on their own

usually AFTER they win.
Not before.

 

[igrowone]

usually AFTER they win.
Not before.

and that may be the crux of the problem
to many, 215 was the victory, anything else is being a traitor

 

[grapeman]

You're one bad ass.
[/sarcasm]

Legal marijuana under prop 19 might raise your de iure taxes, but the price of weed will still drop, which means you'll be spending LESS MONEY bottom line.
libertarianism isn't perfect



Hey man, put this in your pipe and smoke it:

A perfect example of the ignorant teenager who elected our worst president ever.

Lecturing me on economics. LOL.

Come on kids, give me an argument other then your hopes and wishes. I give you history and you give me your experiences of your long 20 year old life. LOL

Governments create ALL black markets ALL OF THEM. BY REGULATING MARKETS. Price for good weed will never go down due to this bill. Read a book. Go back to school. Learn something.

 

[dagnabit]

A perfect example of the ignorant teenager who elected our worst president ever.

Lecturing me on economics. LOL.

Come on kids, give me an argument other then your hopes and wishes. I give you history and you give me your experiences of your long 20 year old life. LOL

Governments create ALL black markets ALL OF THEM. BY REGULATING MARKETS. Price for good weed will never go down due to this bill. Read a book. Go back to school. Learn something.

price...

who gives a shit? dont buy pot. this prop allows you a MINIMUM grow no one can take from you.

any tax imposed by 19 is a voluntary consumption tax. not a forced tax.
as for regulation..well your OP is crystal balling after federal rescheduling.
19 is a lessening of government regulation in the life of a recreational smoker.

i like lessening of government in my life.

 

[grapeman]

price...

who gives a shit? dont buy pot. this prop allows you a MINIMUM grow no one can take from you.

any tax imposed by 19 is a voluntary consumption tax. not a forced tax.
as for regulation..well your OP is crystal balling after federal rescheduling.
19 is a lessening of government regulation in the life of a recreational smoker.

i like lessening of government in my life.

LOL. you make my point. A new law with local and state taxes equals less government. And that kids, is an example of the lack of education that has brought california to it's knees.

 

[dagnabit]

LOL. you make my point. A new law with local and state taxes equals less government. And that kids, is an example of the lack of education that has brought california to it's knees.

what has ruined this country is the gullible mindset that has somehow been convinced that prohibition is somehow not regulation.

sorry grape right now you have the strictest form of regulation possible its called prohibition.

prop 19 is a lessening of that regulation.

im sorry you have been convinced prohibition is deregulation but just because you believe it dont make it so.

 

[Hazelnuts]

A perfect example of the ignorant teenager who elected our worst president ever.

Lecturing me on economics. LOL.

Come on kids, give me an argument other then your hopes and wishes. I give you history and you give me your experiences of your long 20 year old life. LOL

Governments create ALL black markets ALL OF THEM. BY REGULATING MARKETS. Price for good weed will never go down due to this bill. Read a book. Go back to school. Learn something.

YAAY, red herring arguments with nothing behind them. Seriously, right now we have a black market, which is the form of market that has the highest prices. Prop 19 would create a regulated market, similar (but not equal, since there's quantity restrictions) to the one you find with alcohol. Now, if you want to look at alcohol prices in the prohibition era, you'll find they were about 3000% or so inflated. The same is the case with weed. As soon as there is a somewhat open market with competition and all that jazz that comes with it, as you may or may not know, PRICES WILL FALL. If you state anything else, you better have some good ass arguments to back it up, as that's the most basic economic principle. Competition + informed customers (which we're gonna have, at least a whole lot more informed than now with the black market) = prices that sink until they reach a level where new innovation is needed to make for cheaper production means in order to still make a profit. Now, you tell me my post is composed of my "hopes and wishes", but you're the one putting out bullshit that's completely unfounded, like saying prices are going to rise or stay the same when weed gets legalized. You have NOTHING to back this up, while I have libraries full of books to support me. Yeah, right, I'm the ignorant teenager. Also, I didn't help elect Obama, I don't even live in your country (I know what's gonna come next, "How are you gonna know how it is to live here etc if you're not even from here, BAAAAAWWWWWWWWWWWWWWW"

 

[CrumpleZone]

Unfortunately, for people who have been profiting hugely (also those underachievers who are going to say they're not making huge profits) off the illegal status of cannabis, it is simple supply and demad that are at work here. People are trying to manipulate the facts, but anybody who has taken econ 101 knows whats up. Don't fall for the bullshit. Vote Yes!

 

[dagnabit]

grapey has been trying real hard in this thread but his suppositions are based of a flawed premise of the status quo being "unregulated" whereas the truth is the status quo is prohibition.
prohibition ruins free market principles by creating an element of risk thereby artificially inflating prices.
a true small government libertarian would understand that allowing an individual to grow his own smoke without involving the state whatsoever (registering under 215 for "protection") or some fucking QUACK doctor is a lessening of government intrusion into our lives.
but pride is a motherfucker!!

and some folks would rather argue that absolute prohibition is not government interference in our lives than to admit they may have been wrong.

we all understand putting yourself on a government database and paying extortion to the state are usurpations of our rights but grapey argues that 19 is somehow more restrictive?

 

[Hazelnuts]

grapey has been trying real hard in this thread but his suppositions are based of a flawed premise of the status quo being "unregulated" whereas the truth is the status quo is prohibition.
prohibition ruins free market principles by creating an element of risk thereby artificially inflating prices.
a true small government libertarian would understand that allowing an individual to grow his own smoke without involving the state whatsoever (registering under 215 for "protection") or some fucking QUACK doctor is a lessening of government intrusion into our lives.
but pride is a motherfucker!!

and some folks would rather argue that absolute prohibition is not government interference in our lives than to admit they may have been wrong.

we all understand putting yourself on a government database and paying extortion to the state are usurpations of our rights but grapey argues that 19 is somehow more restrictive?

Couldn't have said it any better. Somehow when I reply to these threads my responses always come out way longer than intended and I seem to miss my point, thank god there's you

 

[CaptainTrips]

YAAY, red herring arguments with nothing behind them. Seriously, right now we have a black market, which is the form of market that has the highest prices. Prop 19 would create a regulated market, similar (but not equal, since there's quantity restrictions) to the one you find with alcohol.

Prop 19 doesn't create, or even mandate a legal market... It does allow for one to be created, but thats just not likely to happen in most counties... If cali wanted a legal market, theres nothing stopping it from getting done without prop 19.

 

[Hazelnuts]

Prop 19 doesn't create, or even mandate a legal market... It does allow for one to be created, but thats just not likely to happen in most counties... If cali wanted a legal market, theres nothing stopping it from getting done without prop 19.

Yes there is, there is existing law also on the state level which says marijuana is illegal and so is trade in marijuana. Prop 19 removes that, and, as you said, allows for creation of a legal market.

 

[CaptainTrips]

Yes there is, there is existing law also on the state level which says marijuana is illegal and so is trade in marijuana. Prop 19 removes that, and, as you said, allows for creation of a legal market.

The state could remove said law. Lol. Prop 19 allows for a market, but that doesn't mean there will be one in most of california. Prop 19 does not remove any law regarding trade as far as I know, unless your county supports cannabis sales, it will still be illegal.

 

[Hazelnuts]

The state could remove said law. Lol. Prop 19 allows for a market, but that doesn't mean there will be one in most of california. Prop 19 does not remove any law regarding trade as far as I know, unless your county supports cannabis sales, it will still be illegal.

Well, removing that law is what prop 19 sets out to do, along with all the bullshit that comes with those laws (paraphernalia and all that jazz). Also, I think (not entirely sure anymore though) prop 19 allows sales by default, unless a county votes against them. I might be wrong though.