offical groups oppsoing Prop 19

[JackTheGrower]

I thought a thread on the groups opposing Prop 19 might be helpful for us.

I just read about the Anti-Gay group Save California will now man the StopProp19.com site.

I kinda figures there would be blood thirsty anti-cannabis folks out there.

The site is not up yet but our Fox 40 news is already in-the-know on the site.

A link to fox40 news site about StopProp19.com
http://www.fox40.com/news/headlines...nfightoverlegalizingmarijuana,0,4247797.story

SACRAMENTO - The fight to legalize marijuana is about to take on a political heavy hitter. SaveCalifornia.com, the people who backed Prop 8 and opposed Gay Marriage, is about to launch StopProp19.com.

The site will be up and running by Wednesday, but a public service is set to launch on YouTube sometime Monday. Sunday night, however, FOX40 was the first Sacramento Television Station to get an early peek. There's no announcer or sound bites, but the production is dramatic and the messages are powerful. One claim reads marijuana is "The number one addiction for 60% of teens in drug rehab." Another claims marijuana is "50-70% more CANCER-CAUSING than Cigarettes."

"You're going to have messed up minds, messed up lives, messed up families." Randy Thomasson led the charge against Gay Marriage; now he's taking on the legalization of Marijuana, "Regularly marijuana smoking among teenagers and young adults does permanent lung damage and permanent brain alterations."

According to a Sacramento Bee/Field Poll the debate is close. 47% believe marijuana should be legalized, but with controls. 4% are in favor with no controls. 19% believe the current law should be enforced. 14% want new laws with tougher penalties. And, 13% support present laws, but with less severe penalties.

Click the link for the full story and access to their video.

By the way.. They have a poll on the site that went like this.

Poll: Marijuana Legalization

Click here to read the story

Should marijuana be legalized in California?

*

Yes (469 responses)

66.0%
*

Yes, but only for medical reasons (86 responses)

12.1%
*

No (156 responses)

21.9%

711 total responses

(Results not scientific)

 

[vta]

haha...they got nothing so just lie and twist things. Says a lot about these "moralists"

 

[ocean_grown]

They're just gonna get all the gays to vote for it just to spite the Prop 8 opposition.

 

[JackTheGrower]

This is the Crux of it VTA.. This is Central Valley stuff..

They have the huge mailing list of the Anti-Gay folks and they are printing and distributing bumper stickers.

I agree the message is a false one. The 60% addicted teens in rehab is a lie and many know it. But we should watch what they do so we are on top of our game.

if any one can gather ad money against Prop19 these guys can.

 

[JackTheGrower]

They're just gonna get all the gays to vote for it just to spite the Prop 8 opposition.

Notice their website poll numbers?

LOL...

It is still 50/50 chance. if those who have different opinions on how things should be decide to vote no then it adds up to that 50% I believe..

Still that the No voters are so split on what kind of No they want.. That is encouraging.

Still we all need to get as many folks to the polls as possible.

 

[JackTheGrower]

VTA What I am saying is this is the Moral-Conservative opposition in the act of taking on another hate.

I was wondering how this dynamic would play.

 

[ocean_grown]

My family could be considered Christian conservative and every voting member of the family is voting yes. Many people who I know through the Church are dopesmokers.

 

[vta]

VTA What I am saying is this is the Moral-Conservative opposition in the act of taking on another hate.

I was wondering how this dynamic would play.

Oh it's going to get nasty. Even though the yes guys don't have a lot of money...they are getting mad press. All the cable news channels are having debates. But as far as these guys go...sure they can put a hurt on 19 but they could also be hurting their own image. This move of theirs shows that there is more to them then just the anti gay stance. It shows they have other political agendas. They may end up losing support from their core members. What it does in the eyes of the educated is exposes these people for what they really are. So they can try to shove their way of life on to others...but moves like this just makes them look bad.

 

[vta]

Oh and jack..I just saw this but it serves as a perfect example.

My family could be considered Christian conservative and every voting member of the family is voting yes. Many people who I know through the Church are dopesmokers.

These people are probably against gay marriage...generally speaking. The same does not hold true to cannabis. So Jack...see where I'm going with this?

 

[DoobieDuck]

I thought a thread on the groups opposing Prop 19 might be helpful for us..

Jack and VTA thanks guys for posting all this curent info and the serious debate. I'm not sure I understand the conversation here, certainly not your fault, just me.
Is what you're saying, By these anti gay peeps getting involved deeply, they are going to show thier "hate" side, and our evolving world of people who tolerate others and show compassion will recognize that, thus driving some of those who would have voted no, over to the other side and thus to vote Yes? If not then knock me in the head cause I missed the point. Enlighten me please..thanks...DD

 

[vta]

lol...pretty much. I might add that right now these anti gay guys have a strong following...everyone involved shares the same anti gay feelings...100% of them. Now...typically per capita 40% of people have smoked pot, it is probably a little smaller with the Anti gay camp which is made up mostly by hard core Christians, moralists and ultra conservatives...but not much. So say 30% of them have smoked weed while 100% of them have not smoked pole. You can bet that some of that 30% will vote for 19, so right there you have members of this group already going against the grain. Some of it will be like I posted before. Regardless as far as the whole anti gay camp goes, because they are expanding their reach they will ultimately lose respect from within, lose unity from within and lose some members because of it. While the ones that leave may still hold on to their anti gay belief, they will not be supporting these wackos any more...hopefully

 

[JackTheGrower]

D WWJD.

Would Jesus allow cannabis? Would Jesus allow Gays?

I was waiting for that site to open to know more but they have not opened on the day they said they would.

 

[DoobieDuck]

Now...typically per capita 40% of people have smoked pot,

VTA not to hijack your thread, but this is what I was telling my wifey the other evening, and my thinking behind why I think the measure stands a good chance of passing. Not only have most of the voters now tried or smoked pot, more important, they have been around it and the people who do smoke it. They have close friends, family, and nieghbors who use it. They have seen its effects and realize that those are not as bad as what they have been told all thier lives. They've see the differance between it and alcohol and, even the parents, may think it is safer for thier kids to be out with this crowd rather than the drinkers, no offence drinkers please. DD

 

[JackTheGrower]

I have been waiting to see this site and now I get the 404 Not Found

The requested URL / was not found on this server.

????????

Did they realize that Prop 19 is the most Conservative form of Cannabis reform they can hope for?

I was wondering just where they stood. i think these Conservative organizations are getting the news that if they don't support Prop 19 the next Initiative will more than likely be a Prop 215 style Liberal Initiative.
I am seeing a quiet switch in the conservative realms to support Prop19. In this way the Lee group was right in how they tailored the Initiative. It seems to be working but without public endorsement from these very organizations Prop 19 still faces a 50/50 fight.

So this StopProp19.com.. Where did it go?

 

[JackTheGrower]

www.marijuanaharmsfamilies.com. is what StopProp19.com is redirecting to but there isn't any site there yet.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Dragonfly's PDF

Dragonfly's PDF

http://www.albionharbor.org/oceana/Stoners Against Prop19.pdf

This is a PDF of arguments against by someone called Dragonfly De La Cruz off a web site http://thealbionreel.blogspot.com/2010/08/prop-19-tax-cannabis-initiative.html

The other blog site is http://votetaxcannabis2010.blogspot.com/2010/07/why-pro-pot-activists-oppose-2010-tax.html

I like the looks of Dragonfly myself.
I understand what she is writing. The point is to keep the pressure on.

That 5x5 is bullshit and we all know it. Why just a clone station is a crime if you have a 5x5 flowering room not to mention a Veg room is serious criminal.

 

[Grow Tech]

So say 30% of them have smoked weed while 100% of them have not smoked pole

Turly made me laugh out loud....of course it's not unheard of for those most vocally anti-gay to ....um embrace "the pole" in private.
ie-

A GOP state senator with a staunch anti-gay voting record came out of the closet Monday and asked for his constituents' prayers.
"I am gay," state Sen. Roy Ashburn (R-Bakersfield)

 

[ChronJohn]

.

 

[JackTheGrower]

It's a strange time in Cannabis history.

Today I spoke with new folks today and the young crowd I was talking to doesn't seem to understand the struggle for civil liberties such as a job and medical cannabis.
That like the Gay marriage issue, where two citizens are allowed to marry but two other citizens are not, and the far right of the Nazi, where the rights of an undesirable portion of the population were systematically reduced to death, the rights of some are oppressed by ideology contrary to Democracy; Such as Medical Cannabis and employment.

It seemed just explaining this was unnerving to some in the group I was in.

So yes polarized viewpoints are real.

I saw another article trying to group the Gay Rights issue with Cannabis. As delicate as the writer was it could only come off as a hate piece.

 

[treefrog]

It's a strange time in Cannabis history.

Today I spoke with new folks today and the young crowd I was talking to doesn't seem to understand the struggle for civil liberties such as a job and medical cannabis.
That like the Gay marriage issue, where two citizens are allowed to marry but two other citizens are not, and the far right of the Nazi, where the rights of an undesirable portion of the population were systematically reduced to death, the rights of some are oppressed by ideology contrary to Democracy; Such as Medical Cannabis and employment.

It seemed just explaining this was unnerving to some in the group I was in.

Combine that with the fact that the Cannabis laws & hate are not based on any kind of factual data. Is it too much to ask that Cannabis laws be based on actual fucking science?! May we have an objective view of the biology please?! All this while there are very real dangers to our health in almost all of the food & water supply. This is a war on people.

If you look at the whole planet, objectively, with the good health of all biology in mind, then it's clear that EVERYONE needs to smoke a doobie and re-think what we're doing here...