I'd sure like to go into the store later this year and pick up a pack of Bubba's or OG's, and I can grow alot of bud in 25 sq. ft.
I'll pay a tax if that were possible!
I'll pay a tax if that were possible!
Will California Vote to Legalize in November 2010?!
- Thread starter nomaad
- Start date
localhero
Member
the 25sq ft thing is a basement, not max. it would be up to your local gvt to decide which guidelines they want to install. think 6-12 med. once you factor in cloning, vegging and flowering, your 25sq ft doesnt seem like all that much.
anyways thats not the point the real issue with the bill is that it makes the commercial licensing requirements very vague (as in not defined at all) and open to bias towards very big business. My question is how do big agra bus plan on getting past the 99 plant fed min sentencing?. if the big dogs shy away from large commercial grow ops due to fed minimums, then all this bill will do is make it expensive for anyone stupid enough to grow non medical.
the positives could be that maybe less people get fined? anything over an ounce and you arent off the hook. anyone thinking this is gonna keep people out of jail is wrong. pretty sure an ounce possession isnt serious jail time. get a cali med card and you can legally carry far more than an ounce.
i keep teetering back and forth on this issue. on one side i see any movement towards more liberal pot laws as a good thing. on the other hand, in a very large way this prop does far more to limit mj. then i wonder what will happen if we vote no? will that embolden our enemies?
personally im not yet about to push people pro or con on it, although its a shitty bill and i was pretty hardcore no weeks ago. what bugs me is when people see the term "legalize" and their brains shut down with visions of rastafarian utopia.
this bill isnt what you want legalize to mean, its just a tag word to get you to vote and not think. whatever.
anyways thats not the point the real issue with the bill is that it makes the commercial licensing requirements very vague (as in not defined at all) and open to bias towards very big business. My question is how do big agra bus plan on getting past the 99 plant fed min sentencing?. if the big dogs shy away from large commercial grow ops due to fed minimums, then all this bill will do is make it expensive for anyone stupid enough to grow non medical.
the positives could be that maybe less people get fined? anything over an ounce and you arent off the hook. anyone thinking this is gonna keep people out of jail is wrong. pretty sure an ounce possession isnt serious jail time. get a cali med card and you can legally carry far more than an ounce.
i keep teetering back and forth on this issue. on one side i see any movement towards more liberal pot laws as a good thing. on the other hand, in a very large way this prop does far more to limit mj. then i wonder what will happen if we vote no? will that embolden our enemies?
personally im not yet about to push people pro or con on it, although its a shitty bill and i was pretty hardcore no weeks ago. what bugs me is when people see the term "legalize" and their brains shut down with visions of rastafarian utopia.
this bill isnt what you want legalize to mean, its just a tag word to get you to vote and not think. whatever.
I seriously doubt that we will ever get a bill to pass that a serious grower will like, but fact is you can get a nice amount of personal stash going in a 25 sq ft. area, and to do it legally is worth it considering the current prison time and costs you could have now.
You cant just easily get a med card without lying and abusing the system that was meant to help very ill people.
Support California and pay your taxes on your weed.
You cant just easily get a med card without lying and abusing the system that was meant to help very ill people.
Support California and pay your taxes on your weed.
Fuck everyone that is against this bill! No it is not the ideal legalization bill, but it is progress. The state can modify the bill after it passes just like they did with SB420 a few years after prop 215 passed. If this bill gets shot down then we are looking at at least another 5-10 years before we get to vote on it again. If CA legalizes it, many other states will follow. And once the Feds see how much $ they are missing out on I give it 10 years tops before they legalize it. No its not the best bill but it is a step in the right direction. Baby steps people.
B
Brain
Calling this bill "legalization" is a bit misleading. It's getting a big NO vote from me for several reasons. Mainly because it doesn't free the incarcerated, pay restitution to them, and ....um....legalize it. Thankfully it doesn't look like it is going to pass but sadly not because it's a bad bill but because Cali just ain't ready for it. Kinda like Prop 8, people just aren't ready yet though each movement has grown by leaps and bounds. It will come though, I give it 5 years max. I only hope that when Cali is ready that we have a good bill that actually legalizes it. Free the Weed 2013.
Many in the heart of the ET are scared shitless, understandably. This included me not long ago until I had time to think it out and talk to those more knowledgeable than me. Those that grew up here and know nothing else have been living in a bubble and don't quite grasp how things will change, or are changing depending on how you look at it. The articles I read out of Garberville are almost delusional in some aspects. Indoor pot more profitable than OD pot, for instance. Please. The market wants ID. The environmentalists hate that for reasons other than that is is unsustainable. The ID takes most of the market share in Cali so they can't sell there OD here. ID can be grown anywhere, as long as the grower knows what they are doing. This hurts the ET in a big way once it's legalized but the ET does have other things going for it. Mainly knowledge, genetics, and beautiful scenery so there will be a tourist industry that draws potheads frow across the entire planet. This is weed capital Earth. Amsterdam should be the real one really scared of this. Nobody is going to want to touch their generic unflushed infinite recombinations of northern lights, haze, skunk, and afghani once they realize what good weed tastes like.
I want to be a pot farmer for the rest of my life and legalization will have to happen to make that a reality for me. I don't care if I get rich or not but this bill sucks and I'm voting no.
Many in the heart of the ET are scared shitless, understandably. This included me not long ago until I had time to think it out and talk to those more knowledgeable than me. Those that grew up here and know nothing else have been living in a bubble and don't quite grasp how things will change, or are changing depending on how you look at it. The articles I read out of Garberville are almost delusional in some aspects. Indoor pot more profitable than OD pot, for instance. Please. The market wants ID. The environmentalists hate that for reasons other than that is is unsustainable. The ID takes most of the market share in Cali so they can't sell there OD here. ID can be grown anywhere, as long as the grower knows what they are doing. This hurts the ET in a big way once it's legalized but the ET does have other things going for it. Mainly knowledge, genetics, and beautiful scenery so there will be a tourist industry that draws potheads frow across the entire planet. This is weed capital Earth. Amsterdam should be the real one really scared of this. Nobody is going to want to touch their generic unflushed infinite recombinations of northern lights, haze, skunk, and afghani once they realize what good weed tastes like.
I want to be a pot farmer for the rest of my life and legalization will have to happen to make that a reality for me. I don't care if I get rich or not but this bill sucks and I'm voting no.
So instead your going to vote to continue to incarcerate people over it? You don't understand, this is a rare opportunity to get some conservatives behind the bill because of our economy. If this bill gets shot down more money will be wasted on CA busting people over pot. So sure the bill is not perfect but we can change it later just like SB420 came after prop215. This is a baby step in the right direction. They are never gonna legalize it the way everyone wants it to be if they never legalize it at all! This bill doesn't affect the mmj laws so if your a patient you get more privileges. The only people that are voting no on this law are either A)misinformed\brainwashed or B)greedy assholes that fear legalization will decrease their profits. The one thing the bill does right is it gives everyone the right to grow!
So go ahead and vote to keep your tax dollars being spent on arresting non patients so real criminals can get away with crime
.
localhero
Member
people will still go to jail. maybe more than are now because of the 20-18year old regulations. an ounce isnt alot to have on you.
the argument that 420 fixed sb 215 is weak. 420 put limits on 215, it caused alot of havoc. think kelly vs. state. so i very much doubt that the legislature will legislate more lenient marijuana laws. probably the opposite will be true, if anything we could face backlash from the right.
i cant see this bill getting a free pass from judicial challenges.
the argument that growers dont want this to pass because they dont wanna lose money is only partially true. if the prop was to decriminalize pot, i GUARANTEE you there wouldnt be a single no vote coming from any grower.
that aside, i wouldnt mind this crappy prop if it forces the government to make a real effort at stopping the super huge guerilla grows ran by the mafia. the only silver lining in it is that you can have an ounce on you. too bad i can already have alot more than that now - legally.
i hate this bill, fucking hate it. its just an all around ratfuck that just burries us either way. if it passes or doesnt, i dont see anything good coming out of this. just a very shitty situation this dudes put us all in.
the argument that 420 fixed sb 215 is weak. 420 put limits on 215, it caused alot of havoc. think kelly vs. state. so i very much doubt that the legislature will legislate more lenient marijuana laws. probably the opposite will be true, if anything we could face backlash from the right.
i cant see this bill getting a free pass from judicial challenges.
the argument that growers dont want this to pass because they dont wanna lose money is only partially true. if the prop was to decriminalize pot, i GUARANTEE you there wouldnt be a single no vote coming from any grower.
that aside, i wouldnt mind this crappy prop if it forces the government to make a real effort at stopping the super huge guerilla grows ran by the mafia. the only silver lining in it is that you can have an ounce on you. too bad i can already have alot more than that now - legally.
i hate this bill, fucking hate it. its just an all around ratfuck that just burries us either way. if it passes or doesnt, i dont see anything good coming out of this. just a very shitty situation this dudes put us all in.
can.i.buz
Member
Most of the people that are for this bill haven't even read it. I may vote yes for some very complicated reasons but for sure, everyone that is going to vote needs to read the legislations word for word and maybe a few times. Let it sink in. Know what you're voting for. This is NOT going to make the mafia go away FYI.
I still find myself in a similar state of mind. I may vote yes for very complicated reasons. I keep re-reading and reconsidering and listening to the rare valuable points of the ongoing discussions.
With the backing of the NAACP yesterday there was a big brewhaha meeting at the capital for this bill. It also included the peace officers for legalization group as well. The problem is although Cali is seen as a progressive state, in politics it is still conservative in most ways. Look at our prop. system to begin with! And with the supporters of the bill there were many church groups there fighting to keep MJ as is. There are many groups upset that the NAACP and the peace officers are behind the bill. My own thoughts are that the gov doesnt/cant take a chance on the billions of $ tied up in agencies that go after MJ growers. CAMP, ATF, DEA, etc all benefit from cash from the feds that go into the billions. If Cali legalizes will that $ dry up and those jobs be lost? What will the feds do? will they cut other monies cause Cali legalizes? Obama has already said he is not for legalization what will his response be? It is a very complicated issue to say the least.
B
Brain
So instead your going to vote to continue to incarcerate people over it? You don't understand, this is a rare opportunity to get some conservatives behind the bill because of our economy. If this bill gets shot down more money will be wasted on CA busting people over pot. So sure the bill is not perfect but we can change it later just like SB420 came after prop215. This is a baby step in the right direction. They are never gonna legalize it the way everyone wants it to be if they never legalize it at all! This bill doesn't affect the mmj laws so if your a patient you get more privileges. The only people that are voting no on this law are either A)misinformed\brainwashed or B)greedy assholes that fear legalization will decrease their profits. The one thing the bill does right is it gives everyone the right to grow!
So go ahead and vote to keep your tax dollars being spent on arresting non patients so real criminals can get away with crime
I understand things quite clearly. Look at the authors of this bills intentions. It's simply to set up retail MJ store much like the clubs they already have. That's what most of the text concerns. Not to legalize it. The tax money this bill creates will be minimal considering we're talking about an institution notorious for mismanaging funds. More money for prisons and police, no thanks. I like it that Mendo has to cut sheriffs staff, I like it that local governments can't afford to prosecute growers with a legal fund. This will not end the drug war or war against pot. CAMP will still fly as will COMMET and the rest of the alphabet soldiers. Why? Because it's still illegal forcing most people to pay prohibition prices 1 ounce at a time!!!! This bill is a total sham and there are better bills in the works. State gov will not continue to loosen the laws. Mendo and Trinity both returned to sb420 minimums not long ago. Richard Lee is trying to pull a fast one by being the first to get an initiative on the ballot. The media is eating it up calling it "legalization" for ratings even though that word was replaced in the bill with regulation. This bill will make it harder to legalize in the long run I believe. I'm not falling for it.
skoobie dew
Member
The latest polls say this prop is going to fail.
"The Field Poll showed 48% of likely voters are now against the initiative with 44% in favor."
http://www.examiner.com/x-36917-LA-...ive-in-trouble-Stop-pot-on-top-for-first-time
"The Field Poll showed 48% of likely voters are now against the initiative with 44% in favor."
http://www.examiner.com/x-36917-LA-...ive-in-trouble-Stop-pot-on-top-for-first-time
I am seriously NOT convinced this bill will keep anybody out of jail. It may just create a new category of people who will be doing time. I have at least one under-21 employee who will be losing his job because of provisions in this bill, should it pass. He's got a baby on the way.
Still on the fence.
Still on the fence.
This is why Jack Herrer and Dennis Peron are against this majorly flawed BILL!..Read it and educate yourself!
Peron, co-author of Proposition 215, cites three "fatal flaws" in the Oaksterdamn U initiative . These can be described as limits, taxes, and penalties regarding minors.
Regarding the limits of one ounce and 25 square feet for personal cultivation:
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
Regarding taxes:
"Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
Regarding minors:
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
Peron vows that if the proponents "buy" enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot he will campaign against it:
"This initiative is bad for parents, students and, ultimately, the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences."
VOTE NO!
Peron, co-author of Proposition 215, cites three "fatal flaws" in the Oaksterdamn U initiative . These can be described as limits, taxes, and penalties regarding minors.
Regarding the limits of one ounce and 25 square feet for personal cultivation:
"Imagine a law to “tax and regulate” alcohol that only allows for possession of up to one bottle of wine imprisoning those who exceed that amount, be it two bottles or a small collection of choice vintages. These limits guarantee confusion, harassment and black marketeering forevermore. We don’t control alcohol by imposing a 25 sq. foot limit on grape vines. But one extra gram or sq. foot of pot means jail and even worse; this initiative specifies that if accused of having too much cannabis the burden of proof is on you, not the state."
Regarding taxes:
"Singling out those who want to use marijuana for a huge excise tax is just plain unfair. It maintains cannabis as the most expensive, blatantly overpriced product on the market thus forcing most people to choose cheaper, more dangerous drugs with huge externalized costs to society as a whole."
Regarding minors:
"Sending teenagers to state prison for three years for pot is evil. This initiative mandates that 18, 19, and twenty year old minors serve three to seven year terms in California state prison for the crime of passing each other a joint or selling one another a small amount. Under this law if a 21 year old person passes a joint to a 20 year old he or she goes to county jail for six months. Likewise this measure has no exceptions for parents in their own homes from the “smoking cannabis in any space while minors are present” prohibition. We don’t lock up parents for having a glass of wine with dinner and we certainly don’t tell the kids to leave the house for the purpose of consuming any other substance so why start with cannabis?"
Peron vows that if the proponents "buy" enough signatures to get the initiative on the ballot he will campaign against it:
"This initiative is bad for parents, students and, ultimately, the effort to get the state to stop ruining lives enforcing these draconian pot laws. Initiatives create permanent statutes. This one with its petty restrictions for personal users, prohibitive unfair taxes, and mandatory state prison sentences for teen agers need be nipped in the bud. We will campaign and vote against it should its proponents succeed in purchasing the necessary number of signatures to put it on the 2010 ballot. The tax revenue it will supposedly generate is a mere smokescreen for the kids it will regulate into three, five and seven year state prison sentences."
VOTE NO!
B
Brain
Check out stop19 (dot)com. These folks are saying what I've been saying all along except with a nicer layout and bullet points.
Oh that site is a kicker! I like this lie the best...
The sad part is people will believe their lies and then vote no...misinformed.
I found some more good stuff...my comments are in red
How will Prop 19 affect you?
• Are you age 18-20? You will not be allowed to consume cannabis legally under Prop 19. Currently, all you need is a medical recommendation to do so.
They are not allowed to anyway
• Do you interact with anyone under age of 21? You will be looking at up to 6 months in jail for passing them a joint. (If the person is under 18 you will be looking at up to 7 years in prison.)
Are you kidding me? Really?? Well I'll be damned! What they are refering to here is
• Do you live in the same "space" and a minor? (Space could mean anything from the same house to an entire apartment complex.) You will not be allowed to consume cannabis.
This is a big stretch. here is the verbage from 19
• Do you grow cannabis with a doctor recommendation? Prop 19 will likely be interpreted by law enforcement and judges to limit your grow space to 5′x5′.
Another lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215 and we have been over that many many times here.
• Do you provide your extra medical cannabis to dispensaries? It will be a crime to do so if Prop 19 passes. In addition, large Oakland growers and tobacco companies will take control of the market and push you out.
Once again lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215. Plus some extra added FEAR
• Do you currently have to use your medical cannabis anywhere but home? Prop 19 will prevent patients from using their medicine anywhere in pubic. Which for many people with illnesses is not always possible.
Once again lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215. Plus some extra added FEAR...again
• Do you sell your extra medical cannabis to other medical patients? Prop 19 will make this practice illegal. Even if you are only selling it to cover your growing cost.
Once again lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215. Plus some extra added FEAR...again and again...boy they are making this easy!
• Do you currently enjoy the use of cannabis free from Government interference? Not only will the Government impose excessive taxes under Prop 19, but the federal government will likely respond with unprecedented action against California cannabis users. "The federal Controlled Substances Act makes it a felony to grow or sell cannabis. California can repeal its own marijuana laws, leaving enforcement to the feds. But it can’t legalize a federal felony. Therefore, any grower or seller paying California taxes on marijuana sales or filing pot-related California regulatory paperwork would be confessing, in writing, to multiple federal crimes."
Ok...their 1st sentence is wrong because it is currently AGAINST the law. Their 2nd one is a meant to spread fear that the feds are going to mass thousands of agents and start raiding 5x5 grows...someone ought to tell them the fed start count is 100 and good luck with that in 5x5{not you Anti
, I'm sure you could}
How will Prop 19 affect you?
• Are you age 18-20? You will not be allowed to consume cannabis legally under Prop 19. Currently, all you need is a medical recommendation to do so.
They are not allowed to anyway
• Do you interact with anyone under age of 21? You will be looking at up to 6 months in jail for passing them a joint. (If the person is under 18 you will be looking at up to 7 years in prison.)
Are you kidding me? Really?? Well I'll be damned! What they are refering to here is
ok..now that part of 19..IS NOT NEW! It is already California law! This is what is added...
so...the additional sentence added is 6 months..
• Do you live in the same "space" and a minor? (Space could mean anything from the same house to an entire apartment complex.) You will not be allowed to consume cannabis.
This is a big stretch. here is the verbage from 19
Now..this is not another 'new' addition to law. What this is saying...and only what it is saying is that 19 simply doesn't cover you from smoking around minors. So are far as that goes it's business as usual. Also note it says "space and when minors are present" That means the same room. It is a wild stretch to think this could mean an entire apartment building
• Do you grow cannabis with a doctor recommendation? Prop 19 will likely be interpreted by law enforcement and judges to limit your grow space to 5′x5′.
Another lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215 and we have been over that many many times here.
• Do you provide your extra medical cannabis to dispensaries? It will be a crime to do so if Prop 19 passes. In addition, large Oakland growers and tobacco companies will take control of the market and push you out.
Once again lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215. Plus some extra added FEAR
• Do you currently have to use your medical cannabis anywhere but home? Prop 19 will prevent patients from using their medicine anywhere in pubic. Which for many people with illnesses is not always possible.
Once again lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215. Plus some extra added FEAR...again
• Do you sell your extra medical cannabis to other medical patients? Prop 19 will make this practice illegal. Even if you are only selling it to cover your growing cost.
Once again lie as 19 cannot super-seed 215. Plus some extra added FEAR...again and again...boy they are making this easy!
• Do you currently enjoy the use of cannabis free from Government interference? Not only will the Government impose excessive taxes under Prop 19, but the federal government will likely respond with unprecedented action against California cannabis users. "The federal Controlled Substances Act makes it a felony to grow or sell cannabis. California can repeal its own marijuana laws, leaving enforcement to the feds. But it can’t legalize a federal felony. Therefore, any grower or seller paying California taxes on marijuana sales or filing pot-related California regulatory paperwork would be confessing, in writing, to multiple federal crimes."
Ok...their 1st sentence is wrong because it is currently AGAINST the law. Their 2nd one is a meant to spread fear that the feds are going to mass thousands of agents and start raiding 5x5 grows...someone ought to tell them the fed start count is 100 and good luck with that in 5x5{not you Anti
, I'm sure you could}
