Why did the medical people, like you, agree to go half way? What's the difference?
Shouldn't they have focused on real freedom?
Shouldn't they have focused on real freedom?
ICMAG Administration endorses The Regulate, Control and Tax Cannabis Act of 2010
- Thread starter JJScorpio
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J
JackTheGrower
what is half way?
Don't you have a certificate?
localhero
Member
looking through the commercial aspect of prop 19 again through the filter of, "what would future cali look like", im thinking its probably not gonna be the uber hippie mecha of cannabis kiosks on every corner that i thought it might be.
looks like mom and pop would be dispensary owners would be facing the same uphill battle would be mom and pop commercial growers are gonna face.
so basically in order to not conflict directly with federal laws im understanding that 19 set the controls with the counties and localities to decide even if they wanted to allow the sale or commercial cultivation. it states that if they dont tax it they cant sell it, but not that they HAVE to allow the commercial cultivation or sale.
so some of the more conservative spots in cali could actually refuse both if they chose. some could place a limit on the number of retail outlets, and/or exorbitant licensing costs same as they would with comm cultivation.
if thats the case, in my mind one supports the other. without enough retail outlets, there wont be the large scale demand. if it becomes like casinos, yes those few casinos will get filthy fucking rich, but how much commercial cultivation will they really need? not the same as if there were cannabis kiosks at every corner, for sure.
im starting to see the commercial aspect of all this as not the whole hearted black demon of smoke stacks and vasts wildernesses of green bud from yreka to san diego.
and more like the reservations allowed casinos.
dont throw out your med card just yet.
Section 11301: Commercial Regulations and Controls
Notwithstanding any other provision of state or local law, a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize, with conditions, the following:
(a) cultivation, processing, distribution, the safe and secure transportation, sale and possession for sale of cannabis, but only by persons and in amounts lawfully authorized;
(b) retail sale of not more than one ounce per transaction, in licensed premises, to persons 21 years or older, for personal consumption and not for resale;
(c) appropriate controls on cultivation, transportation, sales, and consumption of cannabis to strictly prohibit access to cannabis by persons under the age of 21;
(d) age limits and controls to ensure that all persons present in, employed by, or in any way involved in the operation of, any such licensed premises are 21 or older;
(e) consumption of cannabis within licensed premises;
(f) safe and secure transportation of cannabis from a licensed premises for cultivation or processing, to a licensed premises for sale or on-premises consumption of cannabis;
(g) prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;
(h) appropriate controls on licensed premises for sale, cultivation, processing, or sale and on-premises consumption, of cannabis, including limits on zoning and land use, locations, size, hours of operation, occupancy, protection of adjoining and nearby properties and persons from unwanted exposure, advertising, signs and displays, and other controls necessary for protection of the public health and welfare;
(i) appropriate environmental and public health controls to ensure that any licensed premises minimizes any harm to the environment, adjoining and nearby landowners, and persons passing by;
(j) appropriate controls to restrict public displays, or public consumption of cannabis;
(k) appropriate taxes or fees pursuant to section 11302;
(l) such larger amounts as the local authority deems appropriate and proper under local circumstances, than those established under section 11300(a) for personal possession and cultivation, or under this section for commercial cultivation, processing, transportation and sale by persons authorized to do so under this section;
(m) any other appropriate controls necessary for protection of the public health and welfare.
looks like mom and pop would be dispensary owners would be facing the same uphill battle would be mom and pop commercial growers are gonna face.
so basically in order to not conflict directly with federal laws im understanding that 19 set the controls with the counties and localities to decide even if they wanted to allow the sale or commercial cultivation. it states that if they dont tax it they cant sell it, but not that they HAVE to allow the commercial cultivation or sale.
so some of the more conservative spots in cali could actually refuse both if they chose. some could place a limit on the number of retail outlets, and/or exorbitant licensing costs same as they would with comm cultivation.
if thats the case, in my mind one supports the other. without enough retail outlets, there wont be the large scale demand. if it becomes like casinos, yes those few casinos will get filthy fucking rich, but how much commercial cultivation will they really need? not the same as if there were cannabis kiosks at every corner, for sure.
im starting to see the commercial aspect of all this as not the whole hearted black demon of smoke stacks and vasts wildernesses of green bud from yreka to san diego.
and more like the reservations allowed casinos.
dont throw out your med card just yet.
Section 11301: Commercial Regulations and Controls
Notwithstanding any other provision of state or local law, a local government may adopt ordinances, regulations, or other acts having the force of law to control, license, regulate, permit or otherwise authorize, with conditions, the following:
(a) cultivation, processing, distribution, the safe and secure transportation, sale and possession for sale of cannabis, but only by persons and in amounts lawfully authorized;
(b) retail sale of not more than one ounce per transaction, in licensed premises, to persons 21 years or older, for personal consumption and not for resale;
(c) appropriate controls on cultivation, transportation, sales, and consumption of cannabis to strictly prohibit access to cannabis by persons under the age of 21;
(d) age limits and controls to ensure that all persons present in, employed by, or in any way involved in the operation of, any such licensed premises are 21 or older;
(e) consumption of cannabis within licensed premises;
(f) safe and secure transportation of cannabis from a licensed premises for cultivation or processing, to a licensed premises for sale or on-premises consumption of cannabis;
(g) prohibit and punish through civil fines or other remedies the possession, sale, possession for sale, cultivation, processing, or transportation of cannabis that was not obtained lawfully from a person pursuant to this section or section 11300;
(h) appropriate controls on licensed premises for sale, cultivation, processing, or sale and on-premises consumption, of cannabis, including limits on zoning and land use, locations, size, hours of operation, occupancy, protection of adjoining and nearby properties and persons from unwanted exposure, advertising, signs and displays, and other controls necessary for protection of the public health and welfare;
(i) appropriate environmental and public health controls to ensure that any licensed premises minimizes any harm to the environment, adjoining and nearby landowners, and persons passing by;
(j) appropriate controls to restrict public displays, or public consumption of cannabis;
(k) appropriate taxes or fees pursuant to section 11302;
(l) such larger amounts as the local authority deems appropriate and proper under local circumstances, than those established under section 11300(a) for personal possession and cultivation, or under this section for commercial cultivation, processing, transportation and sale by persons authorized to do so under this section;
(m) any other appropriate controls necessary for protection of the public health and welfare.
J
JackTheGrower
What is a Certificate?
The full legalization or nothing that you talk about?
You don't want 19 because according to you it's only "half way" yet it's fine with you that the med people settled for half way and didn't demand full legalization. So, seeing you sold out then, whats the difference now?
The piece of paper you paid for that lets you grow and smoke without fear of arrest.
To many restrictions.
J
JackTheGrower
I don't doubt that big business will advance greatly. There should be room for small business too I would assume.
I was hoping the average citizen would have a lot of freedom to grow and breed plants and make it somewhat fair.
i mean if I wanted to start a seed company wouldn't having my own strains first be easier?
I mean if I must pay to try that defeats small business on the pre-start-up.
So to offer new strains to start a business i would have to break the law to grow and breed it would seem to me with prop 19.
J
JackTheGrower
I can still be arrested for growing and smoking as all of us can. I just have a defence in court on medical grounds.
What Prop 19 purports to do is offer everyone rights. That would include anyone who is medical today and maybe not tomorrow.
neither the 215 or the 19 protect me on the job for being legal.
J
JackTheGrower
I am in favor of Legalization over Decriminalization.
I don't think I have ever said anything else.
Don't bait me. I have not sold out.
I am questioning who you are JJ..
I'm someone who sits here reading you write that people should not settle for less than complete legalization. Yet you're protected under 215, and that's not legalization.
Isn't that a hypocritical?
localhero
Member
oh i have no doubt at all that the current counties who are cannabis friendly will stay cannabis friendly after 19, if it passes. just like pot unfriendly counties will also stay that way. im sure there will be some crossover. and im sure that 19 passing wont stop the gold rush to the pot friendly parts of cali.
so if you wanted to start a seed company, youd probably base yourself up in humboldt or somewhere where the localities will place much more liberal restrictions than, say san diego would.
the real problem if you wanna start a seed company would be that if the average joe shmoe couldnt grow more than 25' without medical, then not as many people will be growing as you think, especially not from seed. youd need twice the space to sex and select.
so my suggestion to anyone wanting to make money selling genetics, probably youd base your business up in a friendly county and then sell clones across the state. it would behoove you to lobby for lesser grow restrictions for the average guy/girl so you would actually have a market to sell to though
but if dry counties persist, or counties set up limits on licensing, i think the movement could stagnate while the 4 very easy targets in oakland attract the full eye of the feds.
so by not setting reasonable standards for licensing, the smarties who wrote this bill might just eliminate themselves from competition.
well atleast we will be able to walk around with an ounce sans med card, so fuck em.
J
JackTheGrower
Hey this only make you look dumb, not me.
First you offer the premise
But you are making up the foundation of your argument. It's all in you head what I stand for..
The rest is an exercise to harm me. And you are our administrator. The Defender of the TOU yet you violate it to serve your ego. Just thought to offer a friendly point of view.
Baiting me has not made your position look stronger.
That is why I question who you are..
I have stated and I will repeat myself that I have never been for anything less than full legalization.
I am repeating myself for your benefit.
Alright JJ? Peace?
M
mSeTxOiNcEaRn
VOTE MAYBE
mule420
Member
I don't know if you know anything about a legit small business, your expected to have your first years bills in the the bank ahead of time... That's total operating cost upfront for a year...
I laugh our forefathers made it illegal in the USA, then they "dope fiend" all these other nations to buy this reefer madness shit... Hey will give you money "fuck just cut off pot smokers heads and fuck here's your dough".... And then we have the balls to say OUR right's have been trampled on... I think we can hopefully make small strides to benefit us all... If you think some state law will cover your ass think again, the jack booted DEA is always ready to boot your door in and take what you have... Small steps baby ones...
J
JackTheGrower
oh i have no doubt at all that the current counties who are cannabis friendly will stay cannabis friendly after 19, if it passes. just like pot unfriendly counties will also stay that way. im sure there will be some crossover. and im sure that 19 passing wont stop the gold rush to the pot friendly parts of cali.
so if you wanted to start a seed company, youd probably base yourself up in humboldt or somewhere where the localities will place much more liberal restrictions than, say san diego would.
the real problem if you wanna start a seed company would be that if the average joe shmoe couldnt grow more than 25' without medical, then not as many people will be growing as you think, especially not from seed. youd need twice the space to sex and select.
so my suggestion to anyone wanting to make money selling genetics, probably youd base your business up in a friendly county and then sell clones across the state. it would behoove you to lobby for lesser grow restrictions for the average guy/girl so you would actually have a market to sell to though
but if dry counties persist, or counties set up limits on licensing, i think the movement could stagnate while the 4 very easy targets in oakland attract the full eye of the feds.
so by not setting reasonable standards for licensing, the smarties who wrote this bill might just eliminate themselves from competition.
well atleast we will be able to walk around with an ounce sans med card, so fuck em.
In the Dry Counties the Black Market will rule.. That will be the point of a Dry County. That's simple enough for me to understand.
here in Stanislaus county we have a bar that is notorious for meth, coke and such but weed is strictly forbidden as it wafts down the alley.
I know this place very well as I have lived here a long time.
Why they get by with the nasty bathrooms and the dealing is a good question. My guess it's locals and locally under control. i was thinking the same concept will be there if Prop 19 comes to be. Dry counties and the players already in the game.
On your point of basing a business yeah that's logical.. But there are benefits to some climes others don't have form a breeding point of view.
But I digress.
I have thought that Free market is where we all have an equal chance. Prop 19 doesn't support a free market. It seem to be like the bar I wrote about trying to deal the players already in the game in in the local areas in my opinion.
I don't know Maybe Stanislaus County will be a Wet County huh? I'm sure Prop 19 looks good from a wet county voter grower/breeder.
J
JackTheGrower
I do have a lot to learn about business.
I think my point of view is the "Inventor / entrepreneur" perspective where a guy fiddles in the greenhouse to make a strain and then goes into business.
I was thinking that Prop 19 blocks that first small step and perhaps blocks potential Inventor / entrepreneur types. That is a possible part of the whole picture is it not?
well on the small steps I see your logic and have to agree with it that things do change slowly. It would be best if the first solid step was more freedom for people than Prop 19 in my opinion especially rights to jobs.
I appreciate the conversation.
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