feminized plant used for making seed

[hoosierdaddy]

Just food for thought...
Working a plant into IBL is a dead end. It is the dead end that we are after, if we selected properly along the way, but a dead end of sorts.
I can take my dead ended IBL and cross it another strain to create another cultivar, or to introduce hybrid vigor.
If I keep the parental genetics, I can recreate my seeds.

At what point during all this do I need the male? And for what reason?
Perhaps to complicate things and make it harder to pin down the traits wanted for the IBL?

Are we creating and consuming cultivars, or are we trying to maintain a diverse landrace population?

 

[Forest20]

Things will be fine by selfing your clone. You won't see much of any depressions from a single cross. You could make yourself loads of seeds with the selfing and they will all be females. If you grow out enough of those, and catalog all of their traits and expressions, you would eventually see what the dominating and recessive traits of the population as a whole are. This knowledge could be used in the future if you do decide to outcross one of your selected females to another strain or hybrid.
This all has to do with the punnet square and the ratios that makes sense of the apparent madness.

Now, the female seeds you make could last you for years and years, and there will be no loss of any vigor until you decide to start selfing for more seeds. I would make lots the first round and not worry about crossing it further. Or, do whatever floats your boat...just have fun and stay safe.

This is the whole idea!!!! Gypsy had in creating this great site... that's what I take from it at less....

 

[G.O. Joe]

I can't believe this herm thing is still going on after all these threads/pages. Contributions from breeders would be more interesting if the conversation wasn't about hermies. There are other aspects, such as whether males (only) carry factors besides sex that would be entirely lost with female seeds, and the less-than-great odds of getting many similar plants from selfed seed of a rare pheno of a multi-hybrid. Which some are probably selling anyways.

 

[mule420]

I can't believe this herm thing is still going on after all these threads/pages. Contributions from breeders would be more interesting if the conversation wasn't about hermies. There are other aspects, such as whether males (only) carry factors besides sex that would be entirely lost with female seeds, and the less-than-great odds of getting many similar plants from selfed seed of a rare pheno of a multi-hybrid. Which some are probably selling anyways.

Well it sounds like you are versed, and have a opinion, lets hear it... What about the less then great odds to get similar or the "rare" phenos to be stabilized from plants from a selfed hybrid??? The MOST misunderstood term about weed is the "hermi" aspect, people think it turns the plant male that's the reason for the redundancy on that point... And I would like to hear what you think the male plant brings to the table... As this is the web it's hard to get eye contact and posture... I'm not attacking you, just want your honest opinion on things... Peace and puffs

 

[Forest20]

...."hermi" aspect, people think it turns the plant male that's the reason for the redundancy on that point...

I would love to see someone do a study here on "Mutant" Development..Sorry was watching X-men

 

[cannaboy]

Just food for thought...
Working a plant into IBL is a dead end. It is the dead end that we are after, if we selected properly along the way, but a dead end of sorts.
I can take my dead ended IBL and cross it another strain to create another cultivar, or to introduce hybrid vigor.
If I keep the parental genetics, I can recreate my seeds.

At what point during all this do I need the male? And for what reason?
Perhaps to complicate things and make it harder to pin down the traits wanted for the IBL?

Are we creating and consuming cultivars, or are we trying to maintain a diverse landrace population?

Are you talking about feminized inbreeding?? or IBL ( Inbread bacrossed line)??? R1's are still like having a male and a male is easyer unless you have 2 badboy xx females and they are xx,, but like all the stuff containing skunk will not result in vigour just a backross so you will get Fuck all you want.. Mabe find a keeper.. why has so many seed genetic make ups changed because dick's lost males.. anyone found a good skunky skunk or a good shiva or a other excellent line gone bad!! If you have proof to the contrary please show it to me because unless you have selected and stressed for 50 years on 1 plant the same p1's bread the same way will not always produce the same seeds and also sex is not predeterminde at the mitosis stage but in the germination so propper selection is key. In R1's you will find a true xy yx and even yy perhaps if the desired genetic's breeding goal is found on the male side of the same chromozome makeup that influences the amazingness we all desire for our own purposes.. say a double reversal ???? You wont get the shnizz without the JIZZ>>>

 

[G.O. Joe]

a opinion, lets hear it

I've never grown female seed. But I'd like to mate a couple clones so I will try STS sometime soon, though.

 

[englishrick]

when we use only males for incrossing and outcrossing we increese genetic load,,,,,we need to find an equlibrium,,,

 

[cannaboy]

In reality you can get everything done in 1 season if you were a falen angel and could read and lock down the genetics,, that said, they made a few mistakes with us so you will never get what you want (Gold and dimonds must be a quick thing then)!!! just getting the closest to you ideals or what you thought youd be able to create as your ideals as you will enevitably come across some special genetic representation you didn't anticipate or allow, better than you ever deemed possible, the mendelin or whatever theory out the door as that is a collage of bulshit information.. This representation will stop the quest for a bit before more pollen bashing!!..
So the reality of actually locating the specimen phenotype's needed Id say you need 4 phenos or as many as required to get the thing you want from a whole population of a whole seeded line if you pick wisely or (knew wich 1 it was) Id say there would be a male a female and 2 monocurious revercals. The revercels are key to passing on valuable desired non recessive genes into the progeny giving XX xx yy YY XY YX xy yx xyxy XYXY YXYX yxyx YXyx yxYX xyXY XYxy but for you to know where to go if all are selected traits are not govened you may need a bacross if you cant find a keeper or 2 and you'll have the badboyest seeds feminized from a specific seed plant,, or regular,, all of them F1's, and if you were to do 2 of each pheno and allow a S1 & R1 and a reverce reverce too.. You would be looking for time through plants done properly unless you were just growing fem seed for cash crop ease and hybrid vigour. But if you had selected the Stud's then recombine all said usefull ( FRS1's ) after testing the outcome of the progeny by selfing the most likely best phenos to test their progeny to se if its homogenious. (Is a quick tool) (here are some good phenos).. The most uniformm will be the best most usefull ones for FRS'2's but you may need to check out the 0.0001 recessive before locking down a whole line..

 

[darwinsbulldog]

Are we creating and consuming cultivars, or are we trying to maintain a diverse landrace population?

hopefully both, the latter more than the prior will have most of my attention.

 

[SDGUY]

Just food for thought...
Working a plant into IBL is a dead end. It is the dead end that we are after, if we selected properly along the way, but a dead end of sorts.
I can take my dead ended IBL and cross it another strain to create another cultivar, or to introduce hybrid vigor.
If I keep the parental genetics, I can recreate my seeds.

At what point during all this do I need the male? And for what reason?
Perhaps to complicate things and make it harder to pin down the traits wanted for the IBL?

Are we creating and consuming cultivars, or are we trying to maintain a diverse landrace population?

Excellent question. I suppose it all depends on what you are trying to achieve. A small time grower with a very limited space who is just trying to preserve a great phenotype doesn't need a male at all if you ask me. To determine if a male is contributing the genetics you want, your going to have to breed it to many many females and grow them out. When the male doesn't give ya what you want you gotta start all over again with another male. Not very many people are going to have the space and the time to do this. That is why you don't hear me complain about seed prices. Kudo's to all of the breeders out there doing the hard work for us. At least when you start with two proven mom's, you know the mom's have the genetics you want. That is a good place to start.

 

[DocLeaf]

Just food for thought...
Working a plant into IBL is a dead end. It is the dead end that we are after, if we selected properly along the way, but a dead end of sorts.
I can take my dead ended IBL and cross it another strain to create another cultivar, or to introduce hybrid vigor.
If I keep the parental genetics, I can recreate my seeds.

What you describe above is the method that Growdoc uses

At what point during all this do I need the male? And for what reason?

So that growers can learn to identify nice male plants,, and later use them in programs of breeding when producing hybrid stock.

Each week another regular seed variety is replaced by a feminized one. The breeders working here today are going to be gone tomorrow. Feminized seeds are no legacy (or heirloom) to hand on to the next generation of growers and breeders IMO.

peace n flowers

 

[hoosierdaddy]

But Doc, I can take two heirloom females and cross them, resulting in a still heirloom plant. I can also take that plant to IBL. I could see some inbreeding depression, same as I could using the males. And the fix would be the same...outcross. But if no male, I can find vigor by simply forcing and pollinating an outcross.
Unless folks can identify male specific genes or information, it is going to be hard to validate it's existence.
If the worth of the male is to continue landrace genes, then we must realize that the population that the male inhabits today is far different than it was just a generation or two ago. Landrace populations are very very diverse and always changing. So what exactly are we locking down (or perpetuating for that matter) by using a landrace male?

 

[englishrick]

what do you think of this guys?

Sex-linked AFLP markers indicate a pseudoautosomal region in hemp (Cannabis sativa L.)

http://www.springerlink.com/content/66dvkww9kq9a7fx6/






Abstract

In dioecious plants of hemp (Cannabis sativa L.), males are regarded as heterogametic XY and females as homogametic XX, although it is difficult to discriminate the X cytologically from the Y. The Y chromosome is somewhat larger than the X. Our aim was to analyse AFLP markers on X and Y, and to use them to gain some insight into the structure of the sex chromosomes. Markers located on the sex chromosomes can be grouped into different classes, depending on the presence or absence of a fragment on the X and/or the Y. They are detected by separately analysing male and female progenies of a single cross. Five markers were found to be located on both chromosomes. A few recombinants were observed for marker pairs of this class in the male progenies. Two completely linked markers located on the Y chromosome in the male parent show a recombination rate of r = 0.25 with sex. Recombination must have occurred between the sex chromosomes in the male parent. The recombination analysis led to the conclusion that there is a pseudoautosomal region (PAR) on the sex chromosomes, allowing recombination between the X and the Y chromosome. The other regions of the sex chromosomes show only a few recombination events, for the Y as well as for the X. These results are discussed in comparison to other dioecious plants.

 

[cannaboy]

I think I'll leave you chemicle bro's to do your bit,, I'll still have all the clones, and regular seeds should you want to get some good pips in a few years,, also many males and you can keep yur R1's made from bad plants And I'll extort you all when you need something with varience cos you were BLIND!!

 

[englishrick]

honetly CannaB,,,using [XX x XY] all the time and never using [XX x XX] increeses genetic load,,,,your gona want to let go some of that load,,,in the middle of me and doc is a sweetspot,,,,,

il be going to doc for the Y chromozone,,doc will be coming to me to lighten his genetic load

 

[cannaboy]

I hear you rick, and feel it,, but I aint buying it.. because I'll put a genetic load in its place in order VERRY QUICK I won't be extorting anyone.. MABE REZDOG .. I think the equlibrium is the blend of true feminezd and regular harmoniously by openpollination..

 

[englishrick]

agriculture is full of examples of crops and varieties that are severly inbred, homozygous, and still very vigorous, these are from genepools that were the result of hundreds of generations of inbreeding that allowed much of the genetic load to be removed an this in-itself is the basic difference between inbreeding species and outcrossing species, the amount of genetic load contained in their genepools.

outcrossers don't really allow the genetic load to be removed and therefore it accumulates. Unfortunately, cannabis is predominantly an outcrosser, although not absolute... the natural occurance of monoecious specimines has allowed some of the genetic load to be removed and therefore cannabis is somewhat more tolerant of inbreeding than other species such as dogs and humans. but still much less tolerant than selfing species such as most field crops...

 

[stagger lee]

nice to see some1(cannaboy) that knows what theyre talking about! Rick are you saying that feminized genetics - the natural occurance of monoecious specimines are somehow saving the "doomed"cannabis genepool? Using the word hermaphrodite(instead of monoecious) is no different than using the term strain instead of cultivar or variety. Feminized genetics, or the monoecious specimines arent doing anything for the cannabis genepool. feminized seeds are a shortcut for new growers paranoid of males. I dont buy the wasted grow space on males excuse, when grow tips give about an 80% females success rate from standard seeds. And its only 1 go around starting from seed, after cloning no more wasted space and at least standard genetics all females are "true" females. No need to look for any "dicks" down the road. know I get my balls busted by the male haters crew! fuckall

 

[hoosierdaddy]

nice to see some1(cannaboy) that knows what theyre talking about! Rick are you saying that feminized genetics - the natural occurance of monoecious specimines are somehow saving the "doomed"cannabis genepool? Using the word hermaphrodite(instead of monoecious) is no different than using the term strain instead of cultivar or variety. Feminized genetics, or the monoecious specimines arent doing anything for the cannabis genepool. feminized seeds are a shortcut for new growers paranoid of males. I dont buy the wasted grow space on males excuse, when grow tips give about an 80% females success rate from standard seeds. And its only 1 go around starting from seed, after cloning no more wasted space and at least standard genetics all females are "true" females. No need to look for any "dicks" down the road. know I get my balls busted by the male haters crew! fuckall

Simply fucking amazing, really.

Look, the reason you get you balls busted is because you don't have one fucking idea as to what you are talking about. You bring bad info to the table, and when shown by multiple people, in multiple threads that you are quite off base, you continue to sing your song. That is the sign of an insane dumbass, or someone wanting to cause trouble. I suspect the former.
And it seems a waste of time to explain things to you, because you can't take the information in. You must have some sort of retardation going on there, pal. Not an attack, but an observation.

and at least standard genetics all females are "true" females. No need to look for any "dicks" down the road.

See, this is stupid shit from top to bottom. You have no fucking idea what you are talking about. And you are NOT worth anyone's time to try and correct your misguided understanding of the issue, because you have been schooled over and over again, yet you refuse to learn.
You show back up with the same stupid shit over and over again.

What people should really know is this....do NOT listen to one thing you have to offer up because you will only lead them astray.
You are a bad example for our community and each and every thing you provide needs to be scrutinized. And it will be, trust me.

I suggest you wise up and be a knowledgeable part of our community.
...or, continue to show yourself as a dipshit who knows fuck all about any of this.