feminized plant used for making seed
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mule420
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Could someone talk about selfing a plant that shows no intersex traits to make fem seeds?
Ive heard alot of "talk" on the viability of the offspring and the recessive traits coming out... You dont hear much of the good things that happen. If I dont plan on selling the seeds I could just dig for a good pheno and go from there right? And will I start seeing some freak plants from the seeds due to the selfing? Forgive my ignorance I thought this is how we start to stabilize a strain...
Ive heard alot of "talk" on the viability of the offspring and the recessive traits coming out... You dont hear much of the good things that happen. If I dont plan on selling the seeds I could just dig for a good pheno and go from there right? And will I start seeing some freak plants from the seeds due to the selfing? Forgive my ignorance I thought this is how we start to stabilize a strain...
you can't self a plant that shows no intersex traits because if it shows none it won't produce male flowers and thus can't self themselves. so the intersex trait is required for the production of feminized seed through cross- or self- pollination, you just have to find plants that are resistant to producing male flowers but if stressed to a point (normal growers wouldn't reach) eg. chemicals like CS, they're the best to use IMO. so you want females that still have the intersex trait, but only express them under rare (stressed) circumstances, so normal growers will never have issues with male flowers from them, and so they can still be used to cross and self. hope that helps mate, i'm incredibly stoned and can barely focus on the screen so if any of that is incoherent or hard to understand forgive me
have a nice weekend boys!darwin
A friend and I just sent out 150 feminized Jackie-O seeds that I made (first attempt ever with CS reversed pollen) and everybody who got the seeds says they sprouted easily and are growing well.
lol i know mate but you have to always keep going when you are right in the face of ignorance, or else you might as well not be here at all. even if his opinion doesn't change, we've debunked it here (and previously) in an attempt to educate other people of like mind to staggerlee who will hopefully see the err in their preconceived disliking of feminized seed production.
DONT GIVE UP,,NEVER GIVE UP, KEEP FIGHTING THE CAUSE....
even people that are 2 cans short of a six pack can learn a shit load from threads like this (me hahaha).......my brain is growing
....nice looking ladys Doc K+
keep it green
highlander
If we have two dissimilar plants, say a haze and a squat indica, and we mate them together, the combining of the genes during meiosis allows for a "hybrid vigor" to be a part of the progeny's make-up. Meaning the resulting seeds will grow healthy and vigorous.
If we cross two like plants, say two squat indicas of the same strain, and then we continue to incross the resulting progeny over and over, there will come a point that the seeds will start to lose their vigor and vitality. This is due in part to the lack of diverse genetic material. With every cross the plant may well become more stabilized, but it may well also be losing some vigor with each generation. Often time you will see a plant that has been worked to a loss of vigor, take on a new character and have increased vitality when outcrossed to another strain or hybrid.
The bottlenecking and loss of vitality can come about from *(continued) selfing simply because you are limiting the genetic material the recombination of genes has at meiosis.
And yes, working a cultivar into stability also brings it closer to a loss of vigor.
And it is just my gut at this point and I can't explain it in laymans terms or otherwise, but I feel that mutation is far more likely to come about when the gene pool is limited, such as with true selfing (as opposed to feminizing...which is using two siblings(or disimilar females) and not two clones, which is not selfing).
If we cross two like plants, say two squat indicas of the same strain, and then we continue to incross the resulting progeny over and over, there will come a point that the seeds will start to lose their vigor and vitality. This is due in part to the lack of diverse genetic material. With every cross the plant may well become more stabilized, but it may well also be losing some vigor with each generation. Often time you will see a plant that has been worked to a loss of vigor, take on a new character and have increased vitality when outcrossed to another strain or hybrid.
The bottlenecking and loss of vitality can come about from *(continued) selfing simply because you are limiting the genetic material the recombination of genes has at meiosis.
And yes, working a cultivar into stability also brings it closer to a loss of vigor.
And it is just my gut at this point and I can't explain it in laymans terms or otherwise, but I feel that mutation is far more likely to come about when the gene pool is limited, such as with true selfing (as opposed to feminizing...which is using two siblings(or disimilar females) and not two clones, which is not selfing).
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laptop leakage
laptop leakage
my porch roof leaked rain on laptop after original post and this is first time back with old dinosaur computer with og shit all over it!!!
ANYWAY THANKS Y"ALLL didnt know of the other thread but im glad to see everybody getting into debate/thread.
im going ahead full force in my projects and the interest and debate in this thread just enforces the fact that i need to get a good notebook and keep track of everything very well from here on out and do lots of plan old experiments growing out my crosses to perfection -the way god intended my to mess with genetics in my corner of the universe.
laptop leakage
my porch roof leaked rain on laptop after original post and this is first time back with old dinosaur computer with og shit all over it!!!
ANYWAY THANKS Y"ALLL didnt know of the other thread but im glad to see everybody getting into debate/thread.
im going ahead full force in my projects and the interest and debate in this thread just enforces the fact that i need to get a good notebook and keep track of everything very well from here on out and do lots of plan old experiments growing out my crosses to perfection -the way god intended my to mess with genetics in my corner of the universe.
sucks about your lappy mate all the best with the project!
all the best with the project!
it still works but no keyboard action!!!! there was only a tiny bit of water -20 drops??? right on p-key. i imediatly turned over and let dry . when i fired it up it worked foir a little then PpPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP ding ding ding with every p till nothing now no keystroke works at all???? can i hook up a reg. usb keyboard to it?????
i dunno, nothing to lose by trying, put your laptop upside down and let it dry out, hopefully that'll fix it.
mule420
Member
Thanks guys, My deal is this. Started with 3 durban p X skunk #1.
Started with 3 clones off 3 moms. First plant got PM so it went to eat it pile. The second plant showed intersex traits (I was still in the dark then so I chopped her down)
The third just kicks ass! Sticky,stinky pink buds I put that plant thru hell and no intersex traits yet... I cloned a couple moms for back ups... However I still don't feel "safe" without having some beans as back up. So I want to make some fem beans using all her own pollen. CS one mom clone, then hit a diff mom clone with that pollen...
I want to cross one of the mom's at some point with some new genes as HD put it "to avoid the loss of vigor" and make reg seeds. Did I say that right?
When I do that the resulting male seeds I hope will lean to the durbin X skunk #1 side...
Started with 3 clones off 3 moms. First plant got PM so it went to eat it pile. The second plant showed intersex traits (I was still in the dark then so I chopped her down)
The third just kicks ass! Sticky,stinky pink buds I put that plant thru hell and no intersex traits yet... I cloned a couple moms for back ups... However I still don't feel "safe" without having some beans as back up. So I want to make some fem beans using all her own pollen. CS one mom clone, then hit a diff mom clone with that pollen... I want to cross one of the mom's at some point with some new genes as HD put it "to avoid the loss of vigor" and make reg seeds. Did I say that right?
When I do that the resulting male seeds I hope will lean to the durbin X skunk #1 side...
Nice post. Makes perfect sense. Thanks
While experimenting with feminized parent stock,, we dont think we'd ever retail them,, mainly for the reasons listed above.
The most important part in the equation for us,, these days,, are regular male plants,, and this is what fritillary are breeding towards,,, without which the future of variety currently displayed within cannabis genetics,, is surely doomed!
peace peace peace
mule420
Member
It's really simple, now that I know what the plant is doing... I'm sure it's a chore to put it in layperson terms for people like me... Let's hear it for the big brained cats out there
Glad to hear your doing "your thing" and you enjoy it! Good idea I intend to record my findings on any experiments I do also.
Things will be fine by selfing your clone. You won't see much of any depressions from a single cross. You could make yourself loads of seeds with the selfing and they will all be females. If you grow out enough of those, and catalog all of their traits and expressions, you would eventually see what the dominating and recessive traits of the population as a whole are. This knowledge could be used in the future if you do decide to outcross one of your selected females to another strain or hybrid.
This all has to do with the punnet square and the ratios that makes sense of the apparent madness.
Now, the female seeds you make could last you for years and years, and there will be no loss of any vigor until you decide to start selfing for more seeds. I would make lots the first round and not worry about crossing it further. Or, do whatever floats your boat...just have fun and stay safe.
This all has to do with the punnet square and the ratios that makes sense of the apparent madness.
Now, the female seeds you make could last you for years and years, and there will be no loss of any vigor until you decide to start selfing for more seeds. I would make lots the first round and not worry about crossing it further. Or, do whatever floats your boat...just have fun and stay safe.
Let Go Ya Genetic Load,,,,OO:::::::} ------
Let Go Ya Genetic Load,,,,OO:::::::} ------
imo,,,accumulation of deleterious recessives impose a load on populations through the reduction in the mean survivorship and/or reproductive rates of individuals (Haldane, 1937;Muller, 1950; Wallace, 1987).
muller's ratchet causes a sort of mutational melt-down....as the mutation load builds up, there is a gradual reduction in population size...this increases the relative importance of random drift as an evolutionary force, which enhances the chances of fixation of future deleterious mutations, ultimately leading to extinction...the reasons for extinction include temporal variation in the environment, demographic stochasticity (random variation in survivorship, birth rate, and sex ratio), and genetic problems such as inbreeding depression, the loss of adaptive variation by random drift, and recurrent deleterious mutations (Soule, 1987; Lande, 1988),,,,although very small sexual populations, such as self-fertilized lines, are subject to mutational meltdowns, recombination effectively eliminates the process
Let Go Ya Genetic Load,,,,OO:::::::} ------
imo,,,accumulation of deleterious recessives impose a load on populations through the reduction in the mean survivorship and/or reproductive rates of individuals (Haldane, 1937;Muller, 1950; Wallace, 1987).
muller's ratchet causes a sort of mutational melt-down....as the mutation load builds up, there is a gradual reduction in population size...this increases the relative importance of random drift as an evolutionary force, which enhances the chances of fixation of future deleterious mutations, ultimately leading to extinction...the reasons for extinction include temporal variation in the environment, demographic stochasticity (random variation in survivorship, birth rate, and sex ratio), and genetic problems such as inbreeding depression, the loss of adaptive variation by random drift, and recurrent deleterious mutations (Soule, 1987; Lande, 1988),,,,although very small sexual populations, such as self-fertilized lines, are subject to mutational meltdowns, recombination effectively eliminates the process
mule420
Member
Thanks like you said I only plan to self it back once for fem seeds and I will make a ton of them to last me for years! Then I will use them to cross and see what cross I like the best. And yes sir I'm having a fucking blast! I have ten proven strains with good linage ordered now and I cant wait to run them. Some of them are from people that posted in staggers thread... I find that funny for some reason... Peace and puffs
And we'll need male plants to make the pips from
Feminized seeds are not only a short-cut,, but an almost dead-end in genetics for us... unless you have a regular male plant.
Fem. seeds are ok to grow, clone, and smoke,, but useless for any future line of breeding,, without a regular male to play with. The male is 50% of the equation,,, eradicating it for us would be a major pitfall.
How many feminized seeds have been selfed (with cs) over themselves? Over how many generations? fF2? fF3? fF4? fF5? We'd be interested to see ANY examples of f. plants inbred using feminization methods.. truly fascinated in fact
Hopefully someone is on it
peace out all
And we'll need male plants to make the pips from
Feminized seeds are not only a short-cut,, but an almost dead-end in genetics for us... unless you have a regular male plant.
Fem. seeds are ok to grow, clone, and smoke,, but useless for any future line of breeding,, without a regular male to play with. The male is 50% of the equation,,, eradicating it for us would be a major pitfall.
How many feminized seeds have been selfed (with cs) over themselves? Over how many generations? fF2? fF3? fF4? fF5? We'd be interested to see ANY examples of f. plants inbred using feminization methods.. truly fascinated in fact
Hopefully someone is on it
peace out all
I'd like to see that too...multi-generational femmed plants to see if it's true that you lose vigor.
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