Legalize MJ ! Really? No I mean REALLY?

[Hash Zeppelin]

I've been fighting for our liberties and freedoms for several years now. I've also been fighting for the true legalization of cannabis.

I want it legalized. But I'm not about to backtrack on one fight, to further another.



WHO ELSE THINKS AMERICA IS A DEMOCRACY?
Serious question, I want to see some people respond.

^it is still a democracy..... all though it is for sale to a point.

but there is one thing that keeps us more free than any other nation over all. the second amendment. The government knows it and the people know it. there is over 100 million people that can fire a gun in this country, and if anything like Tienanmen Square ever happened here in America it would be lights out for everyone in office that had a hand in it.

just look how often human in general riot.

my point is you are living in a self constructed false reality being so paranoid. You are so paranoid that you think that prop 19 is a conspiracy.

Do you believe in the moon landing? I do. I met Buzz Aldrin at the hotel I worked at and couldn't pass up the chance to speak to one of the 17 people that walked on the moon., and he described it to me personally. what he told me you couldn't have made that shit up.

Do you believe in the Kennedy Assassination conspiracy? I don't. I have seen it disproved with mathematical, and scientific facts. same goes for the whole 911 conspiracy.

all it takes is a high school education and proper observation to see that the conspiracy nuts and the millionaire club congress both live crazy false realities, and only really care about how important they sound to them selves. its all egotistical BS, and you are gonna let it get in the way of great social progress.

so sad.

 

[grapeman]

but there is one thing that keeps us more free than any other nation over all. the second amendment. The government knows it and the people know it. there is over 100 million people that can fire a gun in this country, and if anything like Tienanmen Square ever happened here in America it would be lights out for everyone in office that had a hand in it.

The American civilians are the largest militia in the world. When the shit starts and you don't have a gun, don't ask me for one of mine.

 

[grapeman]

grapeman, you have some decent points and i can relate, agree, and even empathize with some. Or is there a glimmer of humanity in you?

Nope.

 

[StoneElemental]

Don't get me started on conspiracies haha. I strongly investigate these in my free time, you know... just in case Ahahaha. Anyway some things are just a little too creepily coincidental to be just dismissed. However most of almost all it is total horse canna-fert. Hah I mean Hitler being alive and chillin with aliens under the southern ice-cap? Self-Explanatory bull on a stick if you ask me. Anyway back to the subject. Ahem. I've said this at least three times so I'll say it three more times, progress progress progress aaannd one more time for good measure PROGRESS. This is the start and keep the good stuff rollin' (hah I'm punny!)

-S.E.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

The only conspiracy I believe in is that the government is dropping chemical jelly rain on small communities and it is called chem trails, and they make people sick

This shit is real though, it is on multiple cameras, that are not photo shopped. Plus they have a lot of physical evidence stored away and first hand account. the government doesnt even deny it in many cases.

Any time we can get a chance to take back a little freedom we must pounce like a hungry pit bull on a t-bone steak.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

but there is one thing that keeps us more free than any other nation over all. the second amendment. The government knows it and the people know it. there is over 100 million people that can fire a gun in this country, and if anything like Tienanmen Square ever happened here in America it would be lights out for everyone in office that had a hand in it.

The American civilians are the largest militia in the world. When the shit starts and you don't have a gun, don't ask me for one of mine.

I don't think your guns will win any battles with the US military.

Guns held in the hands of American's will not help much against the newest weapon's the US military has, try shooting down a Predator or the newer REAPER pilotless plane, UAV's, good luck.
The Reaper flies 3 times as fast as a Predator, stays up for 16 hours and carries the same load of bombs as an F16.

You don't want to fight the US military, unless you are willing to die, because the odds are high you will.

I am not a supporter of US policies overseas, but I would never want to fight them in any sort of a traditional fight, that is guns, that is their game and the odds are they will win.

Do you remember Kent State? The Anti-War effort all but collapsed after that massacre I don't remember any up rising, people just gave up. Be honest...

-SamS

 

[SilverSage]

I don't think your guns will win any battles with the US military.

Guns held in the hands of American's will not help much against the newest weapon's the US military has, try shooting down a Predator or the newer REAPER pilotless plane, UAV's, good luck.
The Reaper flies 3 times as fast as a Predator, stays up for 16 hours and carries the same load of bombs as an F16.

You don't want to fight the US military, unless you are willing to die, because the odds are high you will.

I am not a supporter of US policies overseas, but I would never want to fight them in any sort of a traditional fight, that is guns, that is their game and the odds are they will win.

Do you remember Kent State? The Anti-War effort all but collapsed after that massacre I don't remember any up rising people just gave up. Be honest...

-SamS

"Ohio" - Neil Young Lyrics Analysis

"It's still hard to believe I had to write this song. It's ironic that I capitalized on the death of these American students. Probably the most important lesson ever learned at an American place of learning.

David Crosby cried after this take."

from liner notes of the Decade album

photo by John Filo

Neil Young News​

Play and listen to a MP3 sample clip of "Ohio" (studio version)

"Ohio" lyrics by Neil Younghttp://thrasherswheat.org/fot/lyrics_ohio.htm
Please comment in the guestbook​

Analysis of the lyrics of Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young song "Ohio"


[Note: This is one of a series of articles which provide an explanation of the meaning of Neil Young's song "Ohio". While the interpretation of lyrics presented here is composed of several viewpoints, there is little consensus on the exact meaning of Neil's songs. The themes and symbolism of Young's songwriting provide a rich tapestry on which to project various meanings and analysis. ] <UL>
Immediately after the Kent State shooting (sometimes referred to as the "Kent State Massacre") on May 4, 1970, Neil Young composed the song "Ohio" after looking at photos appearing in Life magazine and then taking a walk in the woods. Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young went to the studio and recorded the song which was released to radio stations shortly after the killings. Soon, the lyrics "Four dead in Ohio" became an anthem to a generation. In some parts of the country, the song was banned from playlists because of it's "anti-war" and "anti-Nixon" sentiments. The Four Dead in Ohio

"What if you knew her and found her dead on the ground?"
Excerpted from the article "An Analysis of Music and Lyrics in Relation to American Culture in the 1960s" on Epinions by Andrew Lasho. Lasho interprets the meaning of the lyrics to Neil Young's song "Ohio" and offers an analysis of the song's historical importance:
<UL>"When the United States began involvement in the conflict in Vietnam, the response was uproarious and rampant. Many young Americans despised the idea that their country was involved in an armed conflict that in no part was their own fault, and did not even directly effect them. They believed that the United States had no real business in Vietnam.
One of the most outspoken songwriters of this era and calling was Neil Young. Whether it was with Buffalo Springfield or with his other group, Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young, Neil Young expressed his opinion at every opportunity that presented itself. In his song Ohio, he expresses both his opinions about the war, and about a specific event that took place on the campus of Kent State University in Ohio.

"Tin soldiers and Nixon coming,
We're finally on our own.
This summer I hear the drumming
Four dead in Ohio."
("Ohio" lyrics by Neil Young) ​

On May 4, 1970, a student demonstration at Kent State, Ohio left four students dead, one paralyzed, and eight others wounded. This demonstration, meant to be one of many peaceful demonstrations against the war, was ended abruptly and violently when the National Guard fired into the crowd for 13 seconds. The brief shootings ended the lives of students Jeffrey Miller, Allison Krause, William Schroeder, and Sandra Scheuer. The distances ranged from 270 feet to 390 feet. Some of these students were not even directly involved. Justified or not by self-defense, the "massacre" sparked a nationwide student strike that closed many colleges and universities.
The line, "We're finally on our own" describes the feeling of freedom and independence in college, and the line "Four dead in Ohio" refers to the four slain students at Kent State. The "Tin soldiers" are the National Guard, and many people, including Young, felt that it was President Richard Nixon's fault.

"Gotta get down to it
Soldiers are cutting us down
Should have been done long ago."

The "Tin Soldiers" in Ohio "Cutting them down" at Kent State University
The Day America Killed It's Children
Play and listen to a MP3 sample clip of "Ohio" (studio version)

or live in concert

. (note*)
When asked about releasing the song "Ohio", Graham Nash responded:

• "Four young men and women had their lives taken from them while lawfully protesting this outrageous government action. We are going back to keep awareness alive in the minds of all students, not only in America, but worldwide…to be vigilant and ready to stand and be counted… and to make sure that the powers of the politicians do not take precedent over the right of lawful protest."

James Allen Rhodes - Governor of Ohio &
Richard Milhous Nixon - 37th President of the United States
Some believe that a conspiracy covering up the true motivations behind the shootings that involved James Allen Rhodes, Governor of Ohio and President Richard Nixon. (See the book Four Dead in Ohio: Was There a Conspiracy at Kent State by William A. Gordon

for more details.)
In 13 Seconds: A Look Back at the Kent State Shootings by Philip Caputo

, the author details Richard Nixon's decision to invade Cambodia, the militaristic missives of the ultra-leftist Weathermen, and statements such as high-profile California governor Ronald Reagan's declaration about student protests, given three weeks before the shootings ("If it takes a bloodbath, let's get it over with") as part of the events leading up to that fateful day.
Jimmy McDonough writes in the Neil Young Biography "Shakey" about the song "Ohio": "In ten lines, Young captured the fear, frustration and anger felt by the youth across the country and set it to a lumbering D-modal death march that hammered home the dread."
The events in Ohio seemed to mark the end of the Woodstock nation. From Song Facts:

• "Crosby once said that Young calling Nixon's name out in the lyrics was 'the bravest thing I ever heard.' Crosby noted that at the time, it seemed like those who stood up to Nixon, like those at Kent State, were shot. Neil Young did not seemed scared at all."

The front page of the New York Times newspaper (May 5, 1970) with the Pulitzer Award photographic image by John Filo that shocked America​

From President's Commission on Student Unrest (Report , 1970, p. 87): "The indiscriminate firing of rifles into a crowd of students and the deaths that followed were unnecessary, unwarranted, and inexcusable." In the Recording Studio for "Ohio"

"Ohio" single with the United States Bill of Rights
Highlights the right to peacefully assemble​

From David Crosby's site, an interview with Bill Halverson, recording engineer for the song "Ohio". Halverson is interviewed by Tony Bittick on remembering the recording studio session:

• "BH: Crosby, Stills, Nash, and Young probably got there 6:00, something like that, and we set up. Live vocal mics, they had a little drum booth and it wasn't live enough for the guys so we opened the doors to the drum booth so the drums were just sort of in an alcove. And set up their...pretty much their stage amps, and with vocal mics and they fiddled around for a while and I don't recall us doing more than two or three takes of it with live vocal and live harmonies and everybody chiming in. And I was used to recording them all in the room together. We'd done "Almost Cut My Hair that way... we'd done a number of songs...with everybody playing and singing together and they were used to me doing it and I was used to doing it that way.
  The mood was just very intense. I mean when they come into a room... I've been around those personalities for a long time, and the four of them take over a room. They are four distinct personalities and any one of the four is quite overpowering and together they're just a joy to be with. It's just a hoot to see them interact. And they were bent on getting it right and were on a mission.
  ["Ohio" was recorded at The Record Plant] ... on an old Quad-Eight console, an eight-track console that was modified where you could probably do 16 at one time without using... with just direct patches. We had a rented 3M machine from Heiders, probably a 79, 24-track.
  [Using some of Wally Heiders equipment] ... yeah just because I really liked his machines and rented them all the time to bring over there. And he had enough extras where he did have a good rental business. Amp mics...I've always used Shure 57s... it was back in the days when I still used SM-57s on the snare and on toms and on snare and on high hats. I had a couple of Noymans on the overheads... it was after I discovered the D12 for kicks so probably the D12 on kicks... and vocal mics... I probably had some Shures just because the amps were in the room and I needed more separation. So I probably wasn't using Neumans on the vocals just because it was loud and everybody was in the room together.
  TB: And all four musicians stayed in the room and helped mix?
  BH: Oh yeah we all got in there and pretty much just mixed it together. Everybody has their input and there's no referees and it's just... you get on with it.
  TB: The story that David has written and that I've heard is that he saw the picture in Life magazine and pretty much gave it to Neil Young as something kind of a challenge or a spur to write something and he did. Is that the story that you're familiar with?
  BH: I've heard that story and I've read that story and all I know is he came in with the song and they had rehearsed it. I love the way the B-side got to be. And the B-side is "Find the Cost of Freedom". While they were listening to the mix and finishing up the mix they said "we don't have a B-side, we need a B-side for this."
  So they had been rehearsing also "Find the Cost of Freedom" because they did that at the close of the show. So I went out and set up four chairs so they'd be knee to knee sitting facing each other and set up four vocal mics and a guitar mic for Stephen because he was gonna play guitar. Once I was set up they went out there and sat knee to knee with the four vocal mics and Stephen started playing guitar and then they started singing and sang it through. And before they could come in I rewound the tape, put it on another five tracks, and rolled it again, and they heard the guitar so they knew what was going on and waited for the vocal to come in and Stephen played along with himself, a little on guitar, played the little fills and stuff...
  In fifteen minutes we had "Find the Cost of Freedom".
  We air freighted tapes to New York and I also know, well I don't know, as I recall we had some acetates cut in LA and Atlantic in LA got it on the radio there and as fast as they could they got it mastered and pressed in New York.
  TB: Do you recall hearing it on the radio for the first time. BH: No. I do recall that AM wouldn't play it and it was very controversial that AM wouldn't play it and FM, the underground, all the FM stations started playing it... and it got up in the 30s or so just with FM play and at that point FM was pretty underground and AM was the deal. But they tried to ban it."
  

Play and listen to a MP3 sample clip of "Ohio" (studio version)

or live in concert

. (note*)

 

[bearded1]

to the Republic for witch it stands. not Democracy. the second we elect someone else to represent us (THEM SELVES) that is when it stops. Once you let someone speak for you instead of doing the proper homework and making sure you get represented right Democracy ends. You dont vote them out on there ass because the other guy isnt in you party. I hate Republicans and i can't stand Democats. I like my ansestors before me are proud Americans we we were at the Boston Tea party, and every conflict since. we fight for the right to defend freedom at evey turn. those who cry foul and dont want this bill passed well thay just arent Americans. They just live here and exist of the coat tails of others and cry when they don't get what they want. the only way to be free is to vote for change vote yes. Then vote to fix it when you figure out whats wrong no bill ever pased is perfect.

 

[bearded1]

I rember Kent sate like it was yesterday. 1 was 17 then thats so long ago. I remember the rallies all over the country. when thay say the good old days they werent good for my generation living in the deep south. things have changed so much since then. people forget the kids who spoke up. they were true patriots. they stood there ground and some scared child not much older than me at the time pulled a trigger and life for me has never been the same. i speek out at every turn when i see misinformation being used to try and control the masses.... with the advent of the internet so much truth is available now. but there sure is 30 times the bullshit out there to. My brother was killed in Viet Nam Nov. 4 1966 for years i was mad thought what a waste. that and kent state took me to the level that i would never vote for anyone that i did't trust. That ment i had to look them in the eye shake there hand and talk to them. I have done this from my 18 birthday to the present.
if i vote for somone or thing i meet them dog catcher or president. i shake ther hand and try to engage them in conversation. when they gave us the vote at 18 i was fist in line at the poles. i will not vote for some punk ass jack ass that i don't trust to send our armys into conflict. i have voted for loosers as well as winners but i don't ever want kent state to happen or well i could make a long long list of crap from my child hood that should never happened because of blind people voting party lines or well you joe joe said he was a good guy i going to vote like joe says. or even worse you dont even vote or you cant because you gave pot to undeage kids. Vote like someones life depends on it because it does.. may the late 60s and early 70s rest in peace they were hard growing pains for our country. To all here that have served and are going to serve my God watch over you and keep you safe.

 

[Anti]

Anyway some things are just a little too creepily coincidental to be just dismissed. However most of almost all it is total horse canna-fert.
-S.E.

If one were a part of a real conspiracy and wanted to hide that fact, one could go out of one's own way to create lots of false (and increasingly ridiculous) conspiracy websites and pamphlets and whatnot.

That way the only people who would be likely to even FIND OUT about the real conspiracy would be the kinds of people who believed ANY conspiracy. And so whenever they tried to spread the TRUTH about your REAL CONSPIRACY their voice would be drowned out by the choruses of thousands of "Hitler is behind solar power" weirdos.

And you could orchestrate things right out in the open, because your smoke-screen of complete bullshit (Hitler and Aliens and Mind Control) would keep most rational people from even investigating it.

 

[igrowone]

... and the DEA wont be able do shit cause no one will help them. why would they? everyone is sick of them already, they are glorified thieves. In a legalized market people wont put up with the DEA. The state it self will even go after them. They will have state trooper guard pot shops to keep DEA out, it need be. Why? Because the huge amount taxes from the the pot shops pay their salary and buy there bullet proof vests, and they know it. Plus cops never like to give up there jurisdictional control to the federal government, it is an ego/power trip thing that so much LEO has.

If the feds send in the national guard as a response they will look so bad. Sending in the national guard to enforce a law that over 50% of the US population thinks is bull shit, will be a disaster. It will be like the opposite of little rock in the 60's, when the feds forced integration in schools, which was something good that the feds did.

the national guard being called in probably won't happen, that would be a public perception disaster from the federal point of view
this is the DEA's turf, and as you mentioned, they will guard their turf to the bitter end
and what DEA will do is a real interesting line of thought
business as usual? would be the least controversial action, DEA would just go on busting large non medical grows
but conflict between DEA and state law enforcement would definitely be a game changer
not sure either side really wants that, i doubt many California state police want to be federally changed for interfering with DEA busts
but DEA would not like such a situation either, again horrible publicity
i would think some kind of deal would be struck, which would be a huge step forward for MJ law reform on the federal level

 

[StoneElemental]

Awesome and undeniable point, however I must say I've already considered this notion. Major top-secret U.S. controversies may not actually lead to aliens and such but maybe a far uglier truth, one that could possibly spark revolution. Anti if only we and many others could actually be friends instead of smokescreening ourselves.

-S.E.

If one were a part of a real conspiracy and wanted to hide that fact, one could go out of one's own way to create lots of false (and increasingly ridiculous) conspiracy websites and pamphlets and whatnot.

That way the only people who would be likely to even FIND OUT about the real conspiracy would be the kinds of people who believed ANY conspiracy. And so whenever they tried to spread the TRUTH about your REAL CONSPIRACY their voice would be drowned out by the choruses of thousands of "Hitler is behind solar power" weirdos.

And you could orchestrate things right out in the open, because your smoke-screen of complete bullshit (Hitler and Aliens and Mind Control) would keep most rational people from even investigating it.

 

[grapeman]

I don't think your guns will win any battles with the US military.

I am not a supporter of US policies overseas, but I would never want to fight them in any sort of a traditional fight, that is guns, that is their game and the odds are they will win.

-SamS

Thank God our founders didn't take the safe route you describe.

But I really could care less about our foreign policies as compared to the slow march towards socialism this country has been on for the last 20 years with the super charged race towards the socialist prize in the last 2 years.

Our government sucks. We have salt police, trans-fat police, bike helmet police and stupid building codes with lizard fees and impact fees ..... all of which are stupid and deteriorate our freedoms at the expense of special interest groups. You are right. I don't want to die. but at some point, the people will stand up. And I don't expect the civilian military to kill their own if the things we would be fighting for are obvious to all.

 

[Anti]

Thank God our founders didn't take the safe route you describe.

Here's a point we agree on, grape. (Gasp! I know. I was shocked, too!) I think an armed and informed populous could still pose a significant threat to any American regime that was blatant enough in its abuses to cause its opposition to foment a full-blown revolt.

Afghanistan has been holding its own pretty well against our vastly superior military tech for years. They haven't pushed us out, but they haven't rolled over and submitted, either. (And no, I'm not a supporter of the Taliban or the seemingly corrupt government in Afghanistan.) (BTW - is corrupt government an oxymoron?)

There would be heavy losses, but if it ever comes to it, it'll be the death of America either way. Remove the people's right to arm themselves and you have a people who are already bullied into complete submission. Break things to the point that the armed populace decides to revolt and requires you to step in with military force... the American Dream dies.

The whole point of the right to bear arms is to put this fear in the hearts of the politicians in the first place.

 

[dagnabit]

Here's a point we agree on, grape. (Gasp! I know. I was shocked, too!) I think an armed and informed populous could still pose a significant threat to any American regime that was blatant enough in its abuses to cause its opposition to foment a full-blown revolt.

Afghanistan has been holding its own pretty well against our vastly superior military tech for years. They haven't pushed us out, but they haven't rolled over and submitted, either. (And no, I'm not a supporter of the Taliban or the seemingly corrupt government in Afghanistan.) (BTW - is corrupt government an oxymoron?)

There would be heavy losses, but if it ever comes to it, it'll be the death of America either way. Remove the people's right to arm themselves and you have a people who are already bullied into complete submission. Break things to the point that the armed populace decides to revolt and requires you to step in with military force... the American Dream dies.

The whole point of the right to bear arms is to put this fear in the hearts of the politicians in the first place.

i dunno...

the systematic pussification of the American male over the last 30 years has been significant.

 

[igrowone]

often, history is ignored when many comment on the future
the most recent revolution, at least on the large scale, was in the defunct Soviet Union
the overwhelming percentage of the populace did not have arms
but that government fell like a sack of bricks, scarcely a life was lost or a shot fired

 

[Frozenguy]

Nobody said the US is a democracy, but we do have "democratically" elected representatives. As I stated previously, when you do not know the true facts about issues you are more likely to base your votes on information you hear or read. When this information is distorted and not challenged, your ability to decide correctly is questionable.

The point to made here is simple. When those who stand to lose "money" when cannabis is made somewhat legal, you really need to know the truth about what the new law will entail. Trusting anyone who says vote "NO" to legalization immediately tells me they have "something" to lose if the current law is changed. Since cannabis is currently "illegal", the only thing that "something" can be is "MONEY".

Clear enough?

Sorry, I got confused when you said "The worst part of American Democracy".

I agree that there are a lot of people who stand to potentially lose a lot of money, and will be voting no. But that in NO WAY means that whoever votes no is voting no because they will lose money. I'm not a commercial grower, so I have no concern over profit.

If I was a commercial grower, I would invite legalization because I know my product will be better then the rest and a premium product carries a premium price.

Handfulls of valid points to vote no on prop19

 

[Frozenguy]

^it is still a democracy..... all though it is for sale to a point.

Um.. Its a constitutional republic.

but there is one thing that keeps us more free than any other nation over all. the second amendment. The government knows it and the people know it. there is over 100 million people that can fire a gun in this country, and if anything like Tienanmen Square ever happened here in America it would be lights out for everyone in office that had a hand in it.

I have no idea how you got onto conspiracies but I'll keep that for another day.

If you think voting no equates to a lack of high school education, well you're very wrong and it just shows your ignorance. I dont get why people resort to attacking others about their education or religion or sex.

I guess there are more people who stereotype then I thought.

There are many valid points to vote no for prop 19. Just because our standards are higher then some doesn't mean we lack education lol. That is funny.

I think a lack of knowledge in government and politics is detrimental to our society.

Why do you think our government was/is a democracy? Do you even know our pledge of allegiance?

 

[Frozenguy]

but there is one thing that keeps us more free than any other nation over all. the second amendment. The government knows it and the people know it. there is over 100 million people that can fire a gun in this country, and if anything like Tienanmen Square ever happened here in America it would be lights out for everyone in office that had a hand in it.

I fully agree. See my first sig line

my point is you are living in a self constructed false reality being so paranoid. You are so paranoid that you think that prop 19 is a conspiracy.

If you mean me, you're very wrong. I'm not paranoid at all. And I dont think its a conspiracy lol. How would it even qualify as a conspiracy theory?!

Do you believe in the moon landing? I do. I met Buzz Aldrin at the hotel I worked at and couldn't pass up the chance to speak to one of the 17 people that walked on the moon., and he described it to me personally. what he told me you couldn't have made that shit up.

I'm on the fence about the moon landing. For many reasons.
Interestingly NASA announces they had lost the footage of the moon landings shortly after Japan flew their satellite over the moon, and directly over the US landing site but saw no evidence of the landing (no crawler or flag).

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/01/30/AR2007013002065.html

But I believe we could have, but there is a lot of holes in it. What did Buzz tell you that he hasn't told the world fifty times?
BTW, this is the kind of stuff I went to college for, among another major.

When you consider the mirrors though, that pretty much kills any conspiracy theory about landing on the moon; pretty much.

Do you believe in the Kennedy Assassination conspiracy? I don't. I have seen it disproved with mathematical, and scientific facts. same goes for the whole 911 conspiracy.

I believe we were lied to about the Kennedy assassination. I'm not about to say I think I know exactly what went down. And just because you believe a "fact" someone told you, doesn't mean its true.
You believe 911 happened without any government intervention/knowledge?
Let me guess, you never read the 911 Commission report did you. I did. And its full of lies.

Applying some college level physics and engineering concepts, one will realize the numbers dont work out.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

sorry this is off topic. It is just that you interpret this wrong. I am not crazy like that. lol

I don't think your guns will win any battles with the US military.

Guns held in the hands of American's will not help much against the newest weapon's the US military has, try shooting down a Predator or the newer REAPER pilotless plane, UAV's, good luck.
The Reaper flies 3 times as fast as a Predator, stays up for 16 hours and carries the same load of bombs as an F16.

You don't want to fight the US military, unless you are willing to die, because the odds are high you will.

I am not a supporter of US policies overseas, but I would never want to fight them in any sort of a traditional fight, that is guns, that is their game and the odds are they will win.

Do you remember Kent State? The Anti-War effort all but collapsed after that massacre I don't remember any up rising, people just gave up. Be honest...

-SamS

no you dont get what Im saying at all. lol
I am saying this is the over all reason to not be scared or paranoid of the government. That the best thing to do is go ahead, vote, protest and be patient. please read my full clarification of this, because after rereading my post I realized how that came off.

the pouncing on freedom thing means vote yes on prop 19, and that people saying it is a business/ government conspiracy are mislead.

what Im saying is the US government will not go to far. They cant and they know it, because it is made up of the people. Also this means they dont really want too go to far.

the second amendment has a lot more to do with just right to own guns. It states that the people have the right to be equally as armed as the government, which is made up of the people as well.

This is why in America civilians produce the weapons and the government contracts them to do so. no, a civilian can not own a machine gun, or missile, but you can stop producing them for the government, and give them to some one else. contract may forbid it, but if it were to that point no one would be quoting a contract.

then I should also mention that there are huge private armies like black water, that have military ordnance stuff. Also, I like to mention the military is loyal to the citizens of America more than the government, that is part of being patriotic, and is why they joined.

combined with the armed populous where there is 10 times more guns than people. The government will stay in line to a point. They don't think about it just like that, but if any group in our government were start thinking about doing something too crazy they would probably change their minds because they would eventually get to that bottom line, that I described above.

you may argue that the government is already out of hand, but the majority of the country doesn't really think that. we voted for everybody in office over all as a populace. The government is there because we put them there, and they are only willing to be so crooked with it's citizens. I think the drug war is too far, but as a whole we accepted it and as a whole we must remove it, or it will last forever. dont fear our government because like us, they prefer to keep it as peaceful as possible. instead get active and vote and protest.

If we are just politically active, and stand together as growers then we will have no problem expanding the freedoms of prop 19 after it passes. but if you just vote no and stay inactive and underground we get no where.


I hope you see I was never suggesting violence as a solution. I am just suggesting that the government studies history, and realizes that all people in history, put up with only so much before they react as animals.