TC2010/Prop 19 unlikely to pass (new poll results)

[markscastle]

Your right I forgot to put in the word medical! Anyway lots of us old fart toking up!

Here is prop19,http://ag.ca.gov/cms_attachments/initiatives/pdfs/i821_initiative_09-0024_amdt_1-s.pdf

 

[OrganicOzarks]

Lazyman I stand corrected it was Agramed that was wanting to open up the 175,000 sq ft facility.

 

[markscastle]

we don't live in a perfect world, it would be very hard for an initiative to be written to please everyone.

This initiative is going to allow you to grow in the privacy of your own home. Stockpile as much pot as you want in your humidity/temperature controlled pot cellar. They aren't going to allow you to carry more than an ounce on you, but in all reality when do you need to be carrying those amounts other than if you would be selling to others?

When people first turn 21 and can drink legally its nearly impossible to be around all your friends and not consume alcohol without people that are underage. These things go on all the time everywhere even though there are laws against it.

Laws are not too hard to follow, its also not very hard to break the law here and there and never be caught.

These tiny little problems within the initiative really shouldn't be a factor when we are considering bringing pot in the mainstream eyes and away from the taboo that reefer madness has placed on everyone for decades.

Your right it would be hard to write a bill that would please everyone,so why don`t we just can all the criminal marijuana laws and go back to the way God made things? Personal choise and freedom! Just decriminalize marijuana(again)! Vote no on prop19 in November because God gave us the herb and it is not Goverments place to control,tax,Regulate, or make unlawful what God gave us!

Genesis 1:29 Behold ,I have given you every plant yielding seed which is apon the face of the earth,and every tree with seed in it`s fruit; you shall have them as food.

 

[Toyot4]

Your right it would be hard to write a bill that would please everyone,so why don`t we just can all the criminal marijuana laws and go back to the way God made things? Personal choise and freedom! Just decriminalize marijuana(again)! Vote no on prop19 in November because God gave us the herb and it is not Goverments place to control,tax,Regulate, or make unlawful what God gave us!

Genesis 1:29 Behold ,I have given you every plant yielding seed which is apon the face of the earth,and every tree with seed in it`s fruit; you shall have them as food.

love your stance on the subject man, i can not agree with you because i have no faith in a higher power.

 

[superbolan]

There will always be corporations behind these things, thats how politricks works, If you want to wait for one that is truly by the people for the people. Your going to be waiting forever.

 

[HomerSimpson]

Hey Einstein!

OrNORML's initiative is dead! Hell, it never got off the ground.
I-28 (OGF. Voter Power) made the ballot, the one OrNORML was against!

fkin scary if YOU are a sample of Oregon's voters.

Fkin scary for you to assume anything. Wow. really. 11 days. I am so out of touch. Maybe come unglued from you 24 hour news cycle.

never got off the ground. 8,000 sig short. It didnt get off the ground cause its shit.

As far as I-28 goes. Read my sig. please.


What would I put in my bill. How about full decriminalization. In my opinion that means, Anyone no matter the age can grow and posses as much oh the plant as they want. Treat is as a commodity.That is what it is. That way if I want to try and grow 1000 acres of pot. I can. Cause so will everyone else. If regular products in life were priced like pot. We would all live in dirt huts. And this BS about the only time we will have a chance to pass this bill. Unless you are over the age of 65, get real. The wave grows. People will say, "this is a start". No this is America. Once it comes to pass its over. We will never look at as a group again. The government will have its hands in it. We dont need dispensary's in Oregon. We just need more people growing. What if every 4 card grower took care of 6 patients. He would still have excess for the thirsty masses. While making sure that two extra people had at least something for free or the true cost of production.

 

[Voodoo]

Yay, more patients going to prison! Just what everyone on ICMAG apparently wants..

 

[Lazyman]

Voodoo, TC2010 doesn't legalize anything that you still won't go to jail for. Posession of under 1 oz of weed in CA is a $100 fine, a small personal grow is either a fine or a diversion program, no jail.

Want to sell QP's, grow 100 plants, or drive around with 10# in your trunk? You would still go to jail for all of those things even if TC2010 were to pass. Nobody is in jail for posession of 1oz of weed or less, so nobody is gonna be let out of prison if it passed anyway.

 

[dagnabit]

Yay, more patients going to prison! Just what everyone on ICMAG apparently wants..

care to quote what section of the bill your referring to?

 

[Bacchus]

Another winner of keeping cannabis ILLEGAL is the mexican drug Cartels. They make MILLIONS and MILLIONS from pot sales in the US. The price would fall(not as much as RAND says) but alot, this would cut deeply into their profits.

As we all say if you support organized crime keep cannabis illegal for law abiding citizens.

I do not know why anyone under 21 voices an opinion on this topic, their age group votes the leasts at all elections. They will have ZERO impact on this vote.

The industries and groups who profit directly or indirectly from cannabis being illegal will lose big with decriminalization (pharmaceutical corporations, police, the prison industry, right wing controllers, the media, the religious right etc) these pricks haven't even started trying to begun to make sure they will win.

a week or two before the voting date, if there is even a slight chance that this might get voted in, there will be a "cannabis death" , guaranteed it will be a white teenage girl ..if not a death, it will be some other shocking incident "caused by cannabis" and with the subsequent media's lies, bias and hysterics will kill any chance of it passing.

 

[Tommy Trichome]

care to quote what section of the bill your referring to?

Section 4: Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors Section 11361 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to read: Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors (a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any marijuana, who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any marijuana to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any marijuana to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use marijuana in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years. (b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years. (c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense. (d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any marijuana to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.

 

[chef]

Fkin scary for you to assume anything. Wow. really. 11 days. I am so out of touch. Maybe come unglued from you 24 hour news cycle.

never got off the ground. 8,000 sig short. It didnt get off the ground cause its shit.

As far as I-28 goes. Read my sig. please.

8k short is more than the total sigs gathered last I saw lol No way did they come that close. We agree on the shit part!

Don't get your sig/I-28 reference? not slow, just stoned

I am no problem with full legalization. If it is truly that. I am voting No in Oregon. Not because I am a greedy bitch that wants all the money to myself. I don't want to see the 5 greedy bastards who are behind the Oregon bill to take over the states cannabis supply. That's right Or-norml....We can see your shitty plans. Vote no in Oregon if you love cannabis.

OCTA was dead before it launched, been nothing but a facade of it having any chance whatsoever. Was more about gathering donations than sigs.

I wasn't aware we had a "Gang of 5" up here?

Spit it out, name some names!

 

[dagnabit]

Section 4: Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors Section 11361 of the Health and Safety Code is amended to read: Prohibition on Furnishing Marijuana to Minors (a) Every person 18 years of age or over who hires, employs, or uses a minor in transporting, carrying, selling, giving away, preparing for sale, or peddling any marijuana, who unlawfully sells, or offers to sell, any marijuana to a minor, or who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give any marijuana to a minor under 14 years of age, or who induces a minor to use marijuana in violation of law shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, five, or seven years. (b) Every person 18 years of age or over who furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer, or give, any marijuana to a minor 14 years of age or older shall be punished by imprisonment in the state prison for a period of three, four, or five years. (c) Every person 21 years of age or over who knowingly furnishes, administers, or gives, or offers to furnish, administer or give, any marijuana to a person aged 18 years or older, but younger than 21 years of age, shall be punished by imprisonment in the county jail for a period of up to six months and be fined up to $1,000 for each offense. (d) In addition to the penalties above, any person who is licensed, permitted or authorized to perform any act pursuant to Section 11301, who while so licensed, permitted or authorized, negligently furnishes, administers, gives or sells, or offers to furnish, administer, give or sell, any marijuana to any person younger than 21 years of age shall not be permitted to own, operate, be employed by, assist or enter any licensed premises authorized under Section 11301 for a period of one year.

so when you said "patients" going to jail you did not mean "patients"

as this bill does not change anything relating to 215 but regulates sale to minors under 11301 and 11357

 

[Tommy Trichome]

so when you said "patients" going to jail you did not mean "patients"

I didn't say anything, I was just posting what you asked someone else for.. but if you're for more government regulation and crowding our jails more then go for it...

btw - I DO believe that every hit off a joint is for a medical reason.. most just don't realize it though.

 

[Toyot4]

btw - I DO believe that every hit off a joint is for a medical reason.. most just don't realize it though.

the same could be said for alcohol. right?

 

[Tommy Trichome]

the same could be said for alcohol. right?

Yes, absolutely! But then again it's man made and I don't drink..

 

[dagnabit]

I didn't say anything, I was just posting what you asked someone else for.. but if you're for more government regulation and crowding our jails more then go for it...

i see you have been fooled into thinking legalization is somehow more regulation than prohibition.....

news flash....there is no more strict regulation than prohibition.
but maybe you should read this bill..it LIMITS enforcement of existing non medical statutes.
nothing changes for 215
and by its own definition it CAN NOT strengthen prohibition.

btw - I DO believe that every hit off a joint is for a medical reason.. most just don't realize it though.

laughable.

sorry that big rip i take while im getting blown by my wife is not medicinal...its just for fun.

when my rare auto immune disease causes my immune system to attack the bonds between the layers of skin causing them to separate like sheets of paper or when my blown acl and meniscus are acting up...those are when i use medically.

when i blaze up before i go see a movie..thats for fun

 

[Tommy Trichome]

i see you have been fooled into thinking legalization is somehow more regulation than prohibition.....

news flash....there is no more strict regulation than prohibition.
but maybe you should read this bill..it LIMITS enforcement of existing non medical statutes.
nothing changes for 215
and by its own definition it CAN NOT strengthen prohibition.



laughable.

sorry that big rip i take while im getting blown by my wife is not medicinal...its just for fun.

when my rare auto immune disease causes my immune system to attack the bonds between the layers of skin causing them to separate like sheets of paper or when my blown acl and meniscus are acting up...those are when i use medically.

when i blaze up before i go see a movie..thats for fun

laugh all you want.. I don't care what you think, have a differing opinion, and am done arguing with the pro CA Prop 19 peeps...

 

[HomerSimpson]

8k short is more than the total sigs gathered last I saw lol No way did they come that close. We agree on the shit part!

Don't get your sig/I-28 reference? not slow, just stoned



OCTA was dead before it launched, been nothing but a facade of it having any chance whatsoever. Was more about gathering donations than sigs.

I wasn't aware we had a "Gang of 5" up here?

Spit it out, name some names!

As far as I-28 goes. The government is not here to take from me to give to the masses. If they government didnt take so much from me, I would be more inclined to give to a charity that did good work. Thanks to FDR this country got this idea that it was the governments job to take care of us. Wrong. We are supposed to take care of ourselves. Why cant we treat this plant like every other agricultural crop in the world. It will get rid of the gangs and the little bastards that think they need to live like kings. Leave it to the people who know and love the earth.

As far as naming names. You can read who is in charge of Or-norml just the same as me. Or at least who is affiliated. I-28 is flawed much the same way. A person that was not voted in by the people will be making policy that is treated as law.

I went to the first meeting for this I-28 bill. I am surprised it ever got this far. Drove two hours to be at the meeting. It ended up being a smoke party. I met lots of cool people and smoke some dank strains. But when I inquiried about when the meeting would start. I got "Oh, yeah, umm guess we arent going to get to that today"

 

[Travieso]

Richard Lee's plan. What do you think? wake up people!


Oakland City Council Looking to Close Patient Gardens
This is what happens when you buy city council members, you can convince them to grant you a legal monopoly of the medical and recreational cannabis market by outlawing personal medical gardens under the pretense of public safety and allow 4 giant commercial gardens to come in, set their own prices and force dispensaries city wide to choose from one of these 4 gardens. Im guessing rich lee will own at least 2 of them.

If Oakland city council members are worried about public safety, they might want to consider their own safety first. Destroying the livelihoods of thousands of Oaklands most well connected people will have its consequences. If you want to open a 100,000sqft warehouse in Oakland in an attempt to monopolize the medical or recreational pot market, buy fire insurance.

If your a grower in Cali and support prop 19 read this and let me know how you feel....

California Watch
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California WatchBlog
New ordinance in Oakland would legalize big industrial pot farms
July 13, 2010 | Michael Montgomery

Flickr photo by Neeta Lind

The city of Oakland could become home to some of the world’s largest government-licensed marijuana-growing operations, with permits to distribute products around the state, according to a draft ordinance released yesterday.

The city’s public safety committee meets tonight to consider the plan to permit four industrial-scale, “medical cannabis” cultivation facilities.

The ordinance does not limit the size of the indoor operations, but says the council has received proposals ranging from 20,000 to 100,000 square feet.

“The cultivation of medical cannabis in Oakland has not been regulated and occurs entirely in small-scale home operations or larger-scale illicit warehouses,” reads a report submitted to the committee by city council members Rebecca Kaplan and Larry Reid. “These unregulated operations have led to public safety hazards, including fires, burglaries and home invasions, health risks to patients, and related response costs to the city.”

But the plan doesn’t restrict operations to Oakland. “Responsible transfer permits” would allow registered dispensaries anywhere in the state to purchase medical marijuana from the city’s pot farms. “Sales would be subject to the recently approved sales tax on medical cannabis providing additional revenue for the city through sales taxes,” reads the report.

In addition to improving public safety, the report suggests the plan could help revive the city’s anemic finances, raising anywhere from $3 million to $38 million in permit fees and sales taxes.

Experts say licensed marijuana-growing operations of this size and purpose do not exist anywhere in the world. Even the pot-friendly Netherlands only legally permits small-scale marijuana cultivation for distribution to consumers.

“I am not aware of any indoor-growing facility of that size or one whose product is meant to be consumed,” said Jonathan Caulkins, a Carnegie Mellon professor who co-authored a recent RAND Corporation study on marijuana in California.

Dale Gieringer, who heads the California branch of the National Organization for the Reform of Marijuana Laws, said he could think of only a few government-sanctioned, outdoor pot farms that were larger than the indoor facilities being considered for Oakland.

“This is a very big deal,” he said.

The plan is raising a few eyebrows, even among legalization advocates like Gieringer. He said the ordinance envisions a “monopoly” for marijuana growers while also maintaining a virtual stranglehold on distribution (the plan would increase the number of legal dispensaries in Oakland from four to six).

“There are certainly more than four brands of wine and beer in Oakland and there are certainly more than four brands of cannabis,” Gieringer said.

But the supporters predict the plan would lead to lower prices and help wipe out illegal growing operations.

“Permitting larger-scale cultivation will allow for lower production costs per pound by creating economies of scale,” reads the committee report. “Lower production costs will allow regulated cultivation facilities to undercut wholesale prices of cannabis grown in unregulated operations.” Still, the report estimates dispensaries will continue to purchase at least 20 percent of their product from boutique growers who cultivate within a 96-square-foot legal limit.

Berkeley’s City Council is also considering industrial-scale marijuana cultivation and Mendocino recently passed regulations allowing outdoor pot farms to expand capacity to 99 plants per land parcel.

It’s leading some observers to wonder whether the battle for the statewide medical marijuana market – and accompanying tax dollars – is intensifying among local governments, well in advance of the vote this fall to legalize marijuana use in California.

Of course, much depends on the actions (or inactions) of the federal government. The feds still classify pot as a schedule one narcotic and DEA agents continue to raid some farms that claim to be operating within the state’s medical marijuana laws.

KQED's Forum program devoted an hour today to the Oakland ordinance.
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