Growers are just saying NO to pot legalization

[Sam_Skunkman]

Noone will be able to name a BIG business that government doesnt already tax. This aint income tax were talking about. I dont have a huge problem paying income tax. What is being propsed here is nothing short of a shakedown. 50/oz? Thats BS. They can tax my income but giving them that size of a cut of the pie makes me sick I say NO. The state is irresponsible and doesnt deserve to be bailed out, as if this would help their sickness.

A reasonable analogy would be my grandfathers vegetable garden in which he grows tomatos for local restaraunts etc, He pays income tax but why should he pay an extra tax because tomatos are popular? BS! Whats different about my garden? Its legal. Its mine- I created it. It seems like "yes" would create a false sense of utopia for some
and not change the jail sentences fror BIG commercial growers who are NOT legal.

I appreciate the sentiment and the passion of legalization. I have argued for legalization with whoever would listen for many many years. Im legal now and I dont want the Change you guys believe in.

No smoke buddy, a reasonable analogy would be making wine and selling it, or making beer and selling it.
There is no tax on Cannabis grown for your own use. Only on what is resold for recreational uses.

-SamS

 

[215forLife]

Umm this is a ballot initiative so why are government payoffs even in the equation? Ballot initiatives are supposed to be the ultimate fuck you to politicians and police, not a cash windfall.

 

[Smoke Buddy]

Well, we see it different then Sam. Thats cool. The market Im donating into is NOT a recreational market for one thing. I dont sell, I donate,,, technically. Im just not sure who you think is going to jail. If you have no card and you get busted with less than an ounce you get a ticket here. Thats NOT jail. If you are trying to do a game over type grow and are greedy and over your legal numbers you are risking some jail time but if you have a BRAIN and you get a card and you stay within limits, you are LEGAL NOW. If you are big grower this law will do NOTHING to protect you. So when you look at what we have and what we would really gain from this bill the negatives outweigh the positives IMO.

peace

 

[215forLife]

That militant approach is was brough us prop 215. A proven law that allready exisrts and works to keep smokers, growers, and dealers out of prison without having to handover wheelbarrows of cash to those whose tyranny is responsible for the oppression of hemp and destruction of our planet.

 

[Yes4Prop215]

I do understand that for the people I have been arguing with in this thread prop 19 is somewhat worrying because there is a good change that even if you don't lose your method of supporting yourselves, you will have to adapt to these changes for good.

However people have to change and adapt to new situations all the time and I beleive it will be better for all if we have skilled agriculturalists producing crops on a large scale, as with just about every other crop.

The end goal should be normalisation of this plant, the only reason you guys here are in the position you are in, earning a living selling to dispensarys, is because of prohibition.

Yes, at first 215 was a positive step away from prohibition but now is time to take the next step, I hope you all can see the bigger picture.

Trillion

you really want to sell out the cannabizz to big government just so you can "grow or smoke in peace" well i already feel plenty of peace with my medical 215. i got the paperwork on the wall and im under numbers so im not worried about being arrested for my plot. yall keep talking about the average joe being thrown under the bus, being arrested. well he WOULDNT be if he did what the rest of us are doing under 215. the rest of the country will not jump on californias bandwagon because most states are anti cali, anti democratic, anti weed and its not gonna change. If people in other states feel oppressed they can move to CA or CO and grow/sell in relative peace on the small level. You are sacrificing the commercial grower just so people can get lazy and not worry about the cops. What ever happened to taking the regular precautions and doing your thing..

You guys are starting to sound like friggin Obama...forcing the rest of us to comply with your new world of regulation and taxes.... Ive had about enough progressive movements in the last few years....il keep my counterculture the way it is right now thanks. you can keep the CHANGE...

That militant approach is was brough us prop 215. A proven law that allready exisrts and works to keep smokers, growers, and dealers out of prison without having to handover wheelbarrows of cash to those whose tyranny is responsible for the oppression of hemp and destruction of our planet.

exactly....whats so bad about 215?? we can grow, sell, smoke, and as long as your not over limit you are good to go! no ones doing prison time.. the limits with 215 are awesome! no sqft, up to 99 plants!! there is perfect grey area that enables the counterculture to thrive.....and you want to change all that?? is 50 an 8th REALLLY that bad to pay for good bud????? i know growers who pull big harvests and still are down to fork over 50 for some good head smoke.....i think its a pretty fair price considering costs and labor involved..

 

[Yes4Prop215]

And that's great, but their not going to get it.
I don't understand where the no people think this better bill that will legalize all amounts without any tax is going to come from, it's a dream, and if your voting No and waiting for it to come, then you're dreaming.

um, 215 is already all of those things you mentioned..so the dream world exists. we dont have all amounts, but i can travel with up to 8 ounces on me, grow a decent amount of plants, AND IM LEGAL!!!

i feel your pain that you dont live in a med state...but seriously, if you cant move to a med state, you can easily pull of a stealth grow and minimize your risk of getting caught. check my sig and the stealth grow forum...people getting arrested in other states took the risks out there because the prices are higher so they make more profit...petition for medical laws in your state like we have! im sure medical is the most states are willing to accept because full out legalization puts a bad tarnish on their reputation politics wise...they dont wanna legalize totally because it makes them look too liberal progressive to voters which is one thing many americans are against right now in this extremely partisan USA of Obamao. WIth medical they can explain to voters and politicians that "we allow it for the cancer patients, etc, but we still bust dope dealers" kind of stance that makes them more bipartisan.

legalization in cali will not bring national legalization. most of the country is not too keen on what comes out of liberal land. they think of cali as the illegal immigrant loving, liberal, obamanation and if anything legalization will make this a national issue and get them more firmly against us. "we definately dont wanna turn out like california with thier pot smoking illegals and crime rampant everywhere!!" it can garuntee that most politicians in power will not pass any kind of legislation similar to ours...(im talking most states not all, but even in liberal CO they are hunting down medical pot)

Well, we see it different then Sam. Thats cool. The market Im donating into is NOT a recreational market for one thing. I dont sell, I donate,,, technically. Im just not sure who you think is going to jail. If you have no card and you get busted with less than an ounce you get a ticket here. Thats NOT jail. If you are trying to do a game over type grow and are greedy and over your legal numbers you are risking some jail time but if you have a BRAIN and you get a card and you stay within limits, you are LEGAL NOW. If you are big grower this law will do NOTHING to protect you. So when you look at what we have and what we would really gain from this bill the negatives outweigh the positives IMO.

peace

Exactly how i feel. Until someone can offer more concrete evidence on the safety of 215, i just dont like 19. I dont like the new limits, i dont like the new regulations. I like 215 the way it is...its already semi legal in california, with just enough grey area to still make a decent living out of it on a small level. im not a big commercial grower by any means and i still like the current way it works...

even without a med card possession here is only a ticket...so no ones going to jail here, im tired of the "YOU WANNA THROW 800k, YOUR DAD BROTHERS ETC UNDER THE BUS?" comments because thats simply not happening. those going to jail under 215 were mostly commercial growers who took the risk and got popped....not little old granny smoking in her bedroom getting the door kicked down like you say.

those argueing for YES are missing the point that currently its already pretty damn legal and pretty damn good. 19 only makes you carry an OZ and grow 5x5...so IT ONLY PROTECTS SMALL GROWERS AND USERS..WHO ARE ALREADY PROTECTED UNDER 215. Anybody possessing an OZ and growing a small room IS NOT GOING TO JAIL UNDER CURRENT LAWS, so it doesnt change anything!!! 19 directly goes after commercial growers and the counter culture though...so WHAT ARE THE TRADE OFFS?? they are lulling you to sleep with "legalization legalization" just so they can run our pockets for more cash because they are fiscal idiots with no responsibility...what are we gonna next time they need more money legalize heroin and XTC??

WE GET SOMETHING WE ALREADY HAVE...BUT ALLOW THEM TO TAKE AWAY MORE..

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Then why did 80,000 people in California last year get arrested or as you point out at least a Misdemeanor ticket that prevents you from getting federal school loans, and prevents you from traveling to Canada for example, as well as a whole lot more problems.
What about non medical users, do you want them to lie and get medical?
Seems bullshit to me. I say legalize recreational.
And if I hear "all use is medical" one more time I will vomit.
I know lots of people that smoke Cannabis for recreational use only, and feel offended that they have to lie to get it.
We need to change the way the world thinks about Cannabis, and Tax and Regulate is the best chance we have to do it. Or we can sit back comfortably numb because "we" are doing ok under 215 & 420, and the hell with the 800,000+ arrested for Cannabis in the USA, or the untold millions world wide. The choice is yours.
I don't care who makes the profits from a legal industry, all that is important to me is to stop the arrests in the USA and the world.
I really don't understand how anyone could not want the arrests to stop, or how they think 215 will help anyone besides the lucky few that live in California? None of the other states have enacted anything like 215, the states consider it a disaster and uncontrollable.
We need to change the laws not only in California, and the USA but worldwide, the sooner the better.
Tax and Regulate allows Cannabis to be accepted like any other commodity, Big Biz. Big Agriculture, and Government will never allow it to be illegal once they start making money from it. A small price to pay.
We already pay taxes on alcohol, and it is regulated. Do you refuse to buy alcohol because of the taxes and regulation? Why not?
The same treatment for Cannabis makes sense, Tax and Regulate.

-SamS

 

[Shcrews]

So you don't think Jack was mortal? Believe me he was and had many human failings, many.

is that really what you got out of my post.... everyone is mortal i think we all know that

i think Jack was right in his call for complete abdication of "the old ways" of the 20th century.... we are on the verge of a new era, and too many people are clinging to their idea of "government".

but yah i digress

Sam, since i do not have on hand a copy of the first edition of TEWNC, nor do i possess the 1990 edition updated by Chris Conrad, would you mind maybe paraphrasing or just listing a few reasons why we should not hold Jack Herer and his book in high regard as an authority on Cannabis in the US?

I'm not saying you sound like a know it all, im just saying it would be nice to get a logical explanation.

Sam you also evaded my other question, if not Jack Herer, who do you think was at the forefront of the legalization movement?

 

[Shcrews]

Here's an idea i had last night:

Here's an idea i had last night:

fact 1. California wants money.

fact 2. Prop 215 has put a lot of quacks in Mercedes and BMWs just for writing "recommendations" that are only good for a year..

fact 3. prop 215 is basically "legalized pot" for those with a rec.



SO.... why not, instead of "legalize and tax", just make the state of california and not the phoney doctors sell 1-year recommendations for $100-150. One would not need a medical reason, just the money and a desire to smoke/grow.

I'm not sure how many people have doctor's recs currently, but that number would definitely grow if the state sold them, instead of phoney docs pretending that you need a "valid medical condition".

imagine the revenue generated for the state if they sold even 1 million recommendations per year...

is this not a better idea? or am i the first one to think of it

 

[Trillion]

That militant approach is was brough us prop 215. A proven law that allready exisrts and works to keep smokers, growers, and dealers out of prison without having to handover wheelbarrows of cash to those whose tyranny is responsible for the oppression of hemp and destruction of our planet.

Are you suggesting 215 is the be all and end all of cannabis legislation? Of course you are because you are making a living from it.

Having to pretend you are sick to get a card and buy over priced weed grown by amateurs is not most peoples idea of freedom in regards to cannabis.

Anyone who doesn't want to take the next step towards ending prohibition is partly responsible for the continuation of the oppression of hemp, do you think hemp farmers will have a better or worse chance of establishing themselves in california if recreational use is legalised? I'd like to see you twist that one in favour of 215!

you really want to sell out the cannabizz to big government just so you can "grow or smoke in peace" well i already feel plenty of peace with my medical 215. i got the paperwork on the wall and im under numbers so im not worried about being arrested for my plot. yall keep talking about the average joe being thrown under the bus, being arrested. well he WOULDNT be if he did what the rest of us are doing under 215. the rest of the country will not jump on californias bandwagon because most states are anti cali, anti democratic, anti weed and its not gonna change. If people in other states feel oppressed they can move to CA or CO and grow/sell in relative peace on the small level. You are sacrificing the commercial grower just so people can get lazy and not worry about the cops. What ever happened to taking the regular precautions and doing your thing..

You guys are starting to sound like friggin Obama...forcing the rest of us to comply with your new world of regulation and taxes.... Ive had about enough progressive movements in the last few years....il keep my counterculture the way it is right now thanks. you can keep the CHANGE...




exactly....whats so bad about 215?? we can grow, sell, smoke, and as long as your not over limit you are good to go! no ones doing prison time.. the limits with 215 are awesome! no sqft, up to 99 plants!! there is perfect grey area that enables the counterculture to thrive.....and you want to change all that?? is 50 an 8th REALLLY that bad to pay for good bud????? i know growers who pull big harvests and still are down to fork over 50 for some good head smoke.....i think its a pretty fair price considering costs and labor involved..

Oh well if you feel at peace with your med card and paper work profiteering off the sick/people pretending to be sick then we should all definately vote no on 91, just for you!

It is beyond ridiculous to say that a law that allows people to grow 99 plants should be considered adequate. You are really missing the point, 50 an eighth is that bad, why should we pay twice the price of the best truffles or four times the price of the best caviar for a plant that can be grown by just about anyone just about anywhere? How hard is it to understand the situation in California in regards to supply and price is still heavily influenced by prohibition.

And please let us know what is so bad about being taxed when the end price will be a whole lot lower than it is now?

BOLD = What a load of drivel, I cant believe you wrote that, you are basically saying why bother legalizing its better for people to live in fear of arrest. We are sacrificing growers like you so real commercial growers can take your place.

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

i feel your pain that you dont live in a med state...but seriously, if you cant move to a med state, you can easily pull of a stealth grow and minimize your risk of getting caught.
legalization in cali will not bring national legalization. most of the country is not too keen on what comes out of liberal land. they think of cali as the illegal immigrant loving, liberal, obamanation and if anything legalization will make this a national issue and get them more firmly against us.

Exactly how i feel. Until someone can offer more concrete evidence on the safety of 215, i just dont like 19. I dont like the new limits, i dont like the new regulations. I like 215 the way it is...its already semi legal in california, with just enough grey area to still make a decent living out of it on a small level. im not a big commercial grower by any means and i still like the current way it works...

even without a med card possession here is only a ticket...so no ones going to jail here, im tired of the "YOU WANNA THROW 800k, YOUR DAD BROTHERS ETC UNDER THE BUS?" comments because thats simply not happening. those going to jail under 215 were mostly commercial growers who took the risk and got popped....not little old granny smoking in her bedroom getting the door kicked down like you say.

Do you even understand that Prop 19 will not affect 215 or 420?

"with just enough grey area to still make a decent living out of it on a small level. im not a big commercial grower by any means and i still like the current way it works..."

So the reason to vote NO on Prop 19 is to keep your income coming in? And hell with the 800,000+ Cannabis arrests as they are "mostly commercial growers who took the risk and got popped....not little old granny smoking in her bedroom getting the door kicked down like you say."

Wrong, 847,863 last year in the USA, of those, 754,224 people were arrested for marijuana possession alone. You really need to get your facts straight if you are going to use these "facts" to decide to vote NO on Prop 19.

But as long as you are safe and numb, I gets everything is fine, for YOU.

-SamS

 

[Shcrews]

Having to pretend you are sick to get a card and buy over priced weed grown by amateurs is not most peoples idea of freedom in regards to cannabis. .

see my post directly above yours

 

[Trillion]

fact 1. California wants money.

fact 2. Prop 215 has put a lot of quacks in Mercedes and BMWs just for writing "recommendations" that are only good for a year..

fact 3. prop 215 is basically "legalized pot" for those with a rec.



SO.... why not, instead of "legalize and tax", just make the state of california and not the phoney doctors sell 1-year recommendations for $100-150. One would not need a medical reason, just the money and a desire to smoke/grow.

I'm not sure how many people have doctor's recs currently, but that number would definitely grow if the state sold them, instead of phoney docs pretending that you need a "valid medical condition".

imagine the revenue generated for the state if they sold even 1 million recommendations per year...

is this not a better idea? or am i the first one to think of it

So you're saying it is better for the state of California to openly lie to generate revenue? Good luck finding a politician to pick that one up....

 

[Shcrews]

fa
SO.... why not, instead of "legalize and tax", just make the state of california and not the phoney doctors sell 1-year recommendations for $100-150. One would not need a medical reason, just the money and a desire to smoke/grow.

So you're saying it is better for the state of California to openly lie to generate revenue? Good luck finding a politician to pick that one up....

who's lying?? wtf?

there would be no "medical" clause, just Cali selling permits to grow/smoke for $100 per year.

....no?

 

[krunchbubble]

Do you even understand that Prop 19 will not affect 215 or 420?

"with just enough grey area to still make a decent living out of it on a small level. im not a big commercial grower by any means and i still like the current way it works..."

So the reason to vote NO on Prop 19 is to keep your income coming in? And hell with the 800,000+ Cannabis arrests as they are "mostly commercial growers who took the risk and got popped....not little old granny smoking in her bedroom getting the door kicked down like you say."

Wrong, 847,863 last year in the USA, of those, 754,224 people were arrested for marijuana possession alone. You really need to get your facts straight if you are going to use these "facts" to decide to vote NO on Prop 19.

But as long as you are safe and numb, I gets everything is fine, for YOU.

-SamS

we are talking about California not the whole USA. not even close to that has been arrested, yet even prosecuted or convicted.

when the cops bust you here for cultivation, 95% of the time its smash and grab by the police, without getting arrested or charged, as long as your paperwork is in order.

been busted 4 times, spent a total of 72 hours in jail, no charges, even for a 50 lighter and a 110 plant operation.

personally know many, many people who have gotten in "trouble" by the police from cultivation. not one is sitting in jail....

so all this talk about 800k being arrested is fear mongering by you SAMs.

it may happen other places, but not here......

 

[subrob]

legalization in cali will not bring national legalization. most of the country is not too keen on what comes out of liberal land. they think of cali as the illegal immigrant loving, liberal, obamanation and if anything legalization will make this a national issue and get them more firmly against us. "we definately dont wanna turn out like california with thier pot smoking illegals and crime rampant everywhere!!" it can garuntee that most politicians in power will not pass any kind of legislation similar to ours...(im talking most states not all, but even in liberal CO they are hunting down medical pot)










.

and prop 215 probably had absolutely no influence on other states going medical.

 

[subrob]

krunch...what up bro? i think sams figure of 800k arrested was a national number....and his point, one that many of us share, is there has to be a first state to go legal, then others will follow.....

 

[Shcrews]

krunch...what up bro? i think sams figure of 800k arrested was a national number....and his point, one that many of us share, is there has to be a first state to go legal, then others will follow.....

legal like tobacco or legal like lettuce?

i like my idea better

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

we are talking about California not the whole USA. not even close to that has been arrested, yet even prosecuted or convicted.

when the cops bust you here for cultivation, 95% of the time its smash and grab by the police, without getting arrested or charged, as long as your paperwork is in order.

been busted 4 times, spent a total of 72 hours in jail, no charges, even for a 50 lighter and a 110 plant operation.

personally know many, many people who have gotten in "trouble" by the police from cultivation. not one is sitting in jail....

so all this talk about 800k being arrested is fear mongering by you SAMs.

it may happen other places, but not here......

I never ever said 800,000+ in California, I did say the way to change the 800,000+ arrests in the USA is for California to lead the nation and world in Cannabis reform, and pass Prop 19, it will start a landslide of reform nationwide and worldwide, we have waited long enough.
As for fear mongering to me it is the people yelling Prop 19 will destroy 215 & 420. Without a shred of proof, only their fears that maybe it could happen....
One thing is for sure, prices will fall under a passed Prop 19, and that is the real concern of most of the NO voters. Be honest.

-SamS

 

[215forLife]

Trillion you never smoked his Pure Kush,.. he is the worlds finest grower imo,..