Feminized Seeds Vs Standard

[headband 707]

With all respect, headband...I want to use your take on things as an example.
You hate fem seeds, and have made your conclusions from readings you have done, which is evident because you posted up the drivel that "G" posted up somewhere. But here is the thing...G is talking about old school hermies and nothing more. He isn't describing the selection process to find true breeding females to use for a forcing strategy. He is only talking about how "they" discovered (lol...yeah they discovered it) the technique. And it was very funny reading how they found a very high percentage of males to females as a result...see that is funny to me, because what they had was a ratio of zero males, and 100% females and many with a high propensity to show the intersex trait. Nothing more, nothing less.
Basically, G missed the boat when talking about feminizing seeds. He wasn't describing a feminizing strategy at all, but a hack pollen chucking using less than true breeding stock.
He would have a high rate of hermie if he used a male with that hermie laden female that led to his claimed "discovery". (again...lol)

Lots of lame crap gets put out on the internet, and many folks simply buy into it because they think that the poster has some credibility...which they may well have, but when they post crap like is being posted, it is no wonder new growers and folks new to the concept of fems get a bad taste in their mouths.
But the bad taste is from bad info being put out there, and folks eating it up like so much candy.

Okay bra I'm talking about the stock that is floating out there right now!!!! and I still HATE FEM SEEDS !!!! LOL LOL LOL your still fucking with the stock..
Bro I get it, it's not like I don't get it !!!
I have had plenty fem stock that sucked the big one and I would NEVER spend one more scent on it and I would suggest no one else do either but that just me. You do what ever floats your boat and your right there is a lot of BULLSHIT floating around the net for money these dayz!!!! gee!!! I wonder what thats all about??? I'll light this joint and think about that lol peace

 

[darwinsbulldog]

i only wanted to grow some smoke and now i find myself wanting to learn more

same haha i originally got on here simply to work out issues i was having with sick plants and try and learn just a tad more about growing them, but found a plethora of information about every other aspect of Cannabis and the culture surrounding it, and what really got me going was breeding and the genetics behind it as i'm a biology post grad student so i just had to get involved and learn as much as i could about it, still am every day. i jumped in only a few months ago with little knowledge about plant biology let alone that of Cannabis specifically, though i've studied biology (mainly zoology) and genetics for some years at uni, but yeah downloaded papers, read books, wikipedia'ed things as well which is an amazing resource with respect to terms you come across on here that you may not understand, same with googling. so just keep at it, at first yeah you have to read a lot and ask a shit load of questions lol and i thank everyone who put up with my constant questioning (and still do lol) recently. keep at it mate

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Okay bra I'm talking about the stock that is floating out there right now!!!! and I still HATE FEM SEEDS !!!! LOL LOL LOL your still fucking with the stock..
Bro I get it, it's not like I don't get it !!!
I have had plenty fem stock that sucked the big one and I would NEVER spend one more scent on it and I would suggest no one else do either but that just me. You do what ever floats your boat and your right there is a lot of BULLSHIT floating around the net for money these dayz!!!! gee!!! I wonder what thats all about??? I'll light this joint and think about that lol peace

Well, you will have just as much bad luck from a breeders regular stock as you will with their fem line, if they use the same breeding strategy for both. See, there is nothing that the feminizing does that makes it any different from a standard male/female pollination, save for the sex of the progeny. The very same things must be done to identify true breeding stock for both strategies, and if that isn't done, then buyer beware.
Perhaps you should dis on vendors that put out stock from bad breeding practice, instead of dising the process of feminized seeds itself. After all, it is they that are to blame for ANY bad luck you had with them, and not the process itself. That, you don't seem "to get". (shrug)

And on your repeating of me "fucking with the stock"...again, that is another one of those things that folks like to glom onto, when they really can't put their finger on the details of why they say or back it.
Or...maybe you could explain to us in detail what you mean by "fucking with the stock"? I can assume you are talking about messing with the gene pool in an adverse way when you say this...so I want you to describe it in detail if you are going to continue to repeat it.

Don't get me wrong...I am not poking at you as a personal attack or anything,,I just know you are wrong on a couple of points and I would like to help you see the truth of things, instead of riding the ignorance wagon that so many refuse to jump off of.
If you actually take the time to research things, and double check things from outside sources, you will find that you are indeed a bit misguided, and you will also feel much better about seeing things for what they really are, and THEN making your decision of what you "hate" and don't hate.

 

[headband 707]

Okay bro since you want me to go down this road lets go down it real quick lol.. shall we....
Fem seeds 101
I am guessing you didn't read the truth about fem seeds that I just posted but thats okay I will put my spin on it and it has NOTHING to do with good or bad breeders ? that I would leave for another day LOL..
Take a seeds fem it
send it out ,,,,, the person decides he/she has spent a lot of money and they want to breed with that.. That gear gets out and we have crap lol lol..
hermie shit everywhere..
For many many years here we had nothing but sinsi .. You could not find one seed in one bag anywhere lol lol lol.. Then they started this fem BS and at first I didn't know what was up I had to look it up on the net as to what was going on...I heard about it and heard ppl had been planting the seeds LOL LOL LOL but had no idea that this was what the whole thing was about and now the seeds have shown up and your saying it's all good LOL .. I'm saying IMVHO I don't think so . They FUCKED with the stock and now I'm running into seeds hermieing when they never did this before!!!! Sure they had the one do that here and there but nothing like this!!! In all the years I have grown I have never seen so many seeds turn!!!! And this is for what again???
You know bro I don't know who you are or what you do but I do know that most ppl spend a lot of money trying to grow a single plant and for that one plant to turn hermie on them is a real bitch!!!!!! and waste of fucking time. LOL LOL leave the fucking seed alone!!! I'll stick with what I know bro Headband707

 

[Texicannibus]

Okay bro since you want me to go down this road lets go down it real quick lol.. shall we....
Fem seeds 101
I am guessing you didn't read the truth about fem seeds that I just posted but thats okay I will put my spin on it and it has NOTHING to do with good or bad breeders ? that I would leave for another day LOL..
Take a seeds fem it
send it out ,,,,, the person decides he/she has spent a lot of money and they want to breed with that.. That gear gets out and we have crap lol lol..
hermie shit everywhere..
For many many years here we had nothing but sinsi .. You could not find one seed in one bag anywhere lol lol lol.. Then they started this fem BS and at first I didn't know what was up I had to look it up on the net as to what was going on...I heard about it and heard ppl had been planting the seeds LOL LOL LOL but had no idea that this was what the whole thing was about and now the seeds have shown up and your saying it's all good LOL .. I'm saying IMVHO I don't think so . The FUCKED with the stock and now I'm running into seeds hermieing when they never did this before!!!! Sure they had the one do that here and there but nothing like this!!! In all the years I have grown I have never seen so many seeds turn!!!! And this is for what again??? LOL LOL leave the fucking seed alone!!! I'll stick with what I know bro Headband707

The problem bro is the same thing can be said for hack untested breeding practices regardless of breeding method. It seems there is a major disconnect in understanding that technique does not equal a breeding strategy. Hoosier is trying to explain it nicely bro.. The fact is if you hack together two plants you might get a gem you might get crap until the plant is proven. The same is true for true feminized stock. Understanding heterozygous and homozygous would be a good first step. Some plants have very dominant traits (homozygous). They pass these traits on because even the recessive trait is the same as the dominant trait. Whereas other plants are heterozygous meaning that they have variable traits. There are hidden recessive traits in these plants that will only come out with breeding and growing the progeny.... hopefully this helps and is right ... guys pls correct anything i got wrong

 

[headband 707]

The problem bro is the same thing can be said for hack untested breeding practices regardless of breeding method. It seems there is a major disconnect in understanding that technique does not equal a breeding strategy. Hoosier is trying to explain it nicely bro.. The fact is if you hack together two plants you might get a gem you might get crap until the plant is proven. The same is true for true feminized stock. Understanding heterozygous and homozygous would be a good first step. Some plants have very dominant traits (homozygous). They pass these traits on because even the recessive trait is the same as the dominant trait. Whereas other plants are heterozygous meaning that they have variable traits. There are hidden recessive traits in these plants that will only come out with breeding and growing the progeny.... hopefully this helps and is right ... guys pls correct anything i got wrong

Whatever the outcome bro the genetic makeup of the hemie is in the strain and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The problem is that ppl are breeding with these fem seeds all over the fucking place and that is wasting everyones time.. peace out Headband707

 

[Texicannibus]

Whatever the outcome bro the genetic makeup of the hemie is in the strain and there is nothing anyone can do about it. The problem is that ppl are breeding with these fem seeds all over the fucking place and that is wasting everyones time.. peace out Headband707

Actually I believe most people are afraid because of fear mongering ... so I dont agree that these beans are being used for breeding all over the place. A select few people I have seen are trying to use them in breeding schemes though and I see no issue with it.

I would challenge you to find a plant like Sam has that does not hermi under any condition. That is what you are saying and its simply so rare its not possible to breed only with these type of plants IMO. Maybe if it was legal and huge breeding regimes could be setup ... The problem would be if you found one of these holy grail breeders then it also has to be right in structure smell potency vigour... yea ... good luck man. Id have to reckon a guess that 95% of all strains fem and non fem are bred using stock that has some perpencity to show intersex flowers. I would hope that most of these have a low thresh-hold but still with enough stress intersex experessions would be had.

 

[Honkytonk]

Well the first thing I would see as a problem with that survival theory is ...

The 1st thing I would see as a problem with the whole idea of the 'sex-reversal survival' theory is that it only ensures survival of the females' genes; while males are already doing the most cost effective form of procreation - why would males reverse sex for 'survival'?

 

[darwinsbulldog]

The 1st thing I would see as a problem with the whole idea of the 'sex-reversal survival' theory is that it only ensures survival of the females; while males are already doing the most cost effective form of procreation - why would males reverse sex for survival?

depends on the sex ratio of a population. if males are for some reason, in an specific environment natural or not, in a really high ratio compared to females then sexual reversal increases their chance at passing on their genes. if there are no females to pollinate near by, if they reverse sex they can either fertilize themselves or be fertilized by other males, thus allowing their genes to be passed onto the following generation. the next generation will perpetuate this trait as those males that didn't reverse will have had a reduced chance at passing their genes on to the next gen. i think that's the answer to what you're asking mate. sorry if i've come at your question the wrong way.

 

[trueblu23]

So don't breed with female genetics then, there is enough regular seeds out there to get what you want. Why don't people understand that fem seeds are a treat for people that have a small tent grow and no other space for vegging/mother plants and don't want to fool around with males. Some people like myself need their med but done have time/space to mess around with having mothers and dealing with males. Other wise I would be growing my 4 at a time like usual and hoping they are all females and if they aren't then im SOL until the next grow. I grow all feminized and have not had a prob other than a couple tiny premie seeds in a bubba kush from ghs but the bud is out of this world.

 

[englishrick]

i am an NFT grower,,,,i dont use pots or soil,,,,i use my TDS / EC testers all the time,,,,,

new clones run on an EC of 0.6 / 0.5,,,,,,,after 2 weeks on NFT they demand an EC of 1.0,,,,,

mothers are allways on EC 1.0

simple,,,,,,,clones take a mutch lower feed than the mother

 

[ibjamming]

The 1st thing I would see as a problem with the whole idea of the 'sex-reversal survival' theory is that it only ensures survival of the females' genes; while males are already doing the most cost effective form of procreation - why would males reverse sex for 'survival'?

It DOES happen...several of us here have had them ourselves. A male that begins growing female flowers happens. Probably as much as females that go "hermi". We just kill 99% of males and never get to see them "hermi".

 

[Honkytonk]

depends on the sex ratio of a population. if males are for some reason, in an specific environment natural or not, in a really high ratio compared to females then sexual reversal increases their chance at passing on their genes. if there are no females to pollinate near by, if they reverse sex they can either fertilize themselves or be fertilized by other males, thus allowing their genes to be passed onto the following generation. the next generation will perpetuate this trait as those males that didn't reverse will have had a reduced chance at passing their genes on to the next gen. i think that's the answer to what you're asking mate. sorry if i've come at your question the wrong way.

The best thing a stressed male plant can do is hasten pollen production, it makes no sense at all to go through sex reversal if the stressed plant already senses the available resources or photoperiod indicates bad chances of survival.

As for the F/M ratio idea; how would a plant calculate such a thing?

 

[headband 707]

Actually I believe most people are afraid because of fear mongering ... so I dont agree that these beans are being used for breeding all over the place. A select few people I have seen are trying to use them in breeding schemes though and I see no issue with it.

I would challenge you to find a plant like Sam has that does not hermi under any condition. That is what you are saying and its simply so rare its not possible to breed only with these type of plants IMO. Maybe if it was legal and huge breeding regimes could be setup ... The problem would be if you found one of these holy grail breeders then it also has to be right in structure smell potency vigour... yea ... good luck man. Id have to reckon a guess that 95% of all strains fem and non fem are bred using stock that has some perpencity to show intersex flowers. I would hope that most of these have a low thresh-hold but still with enough stress intersex experessions would be had.

Well we are from different areas and talking about different things LOL LOL.. Your talking about breeders like Sam I'm just talking about pollen chuckers that realease this shit everywhere and it's everywhere here LOL LOL LOL...The underground baby lol it's big ... Then your talking about boys that know what they are doing lol these boys don't .. and they are wasting everyones time but like I said the damage is done and it's too late now. The stock is out there and everyone here is already complaining and planting and BITCHING their asses off !!!!!!!They have been for YEARS!! so I don't know where your from or what your doing but I do know what is going on in this neck of the woods and it's not pretty!!! lol
Like I said it's not like I don't get it I do and for some ppl I'm sure fem works. But hindsite is 20/20 and I really believe that this is not a good move. Just from what I have seen happen here. Peace out Headband707

 

[Texicannibus]

The 1st thing I would see as a problem with the whole idea of the 'sex-reversal survival' theory is that it only ensures survival of the females' genes; while males are already doing the most cost effective form of procreation - why would males reverse sex for 'survival'?

hmm .. that wasnt what the quote was referencing. I do think Darwin covered it well though. I also think that subdio.. populations are pretty 'cost-effective' and thus why prevelant in most land races I know of. There is a reason landraces require work before release ...

 

[Texicannibus]

Well we are from different areas and talking about different things LOL LOL.. Your talking about breeders like Sam I'm just talking about pollen chuckers that realease this shit everywhere and it's everywhere here LOL LOL LOL...The underground baby lol it's big ... Then your talking about boys that know what they are doing lol these boys don't .. and they are wasting everyones time but like I said the damage is done and it's too late now. The stock is out there and everyone here is already complaining and planting and BITCHING their asses off !!!!!!!They have been for YEARS!! so I don't know where your from or what your doing but I do know what is going on in this neck of the woods and it's not pretty!!! lol
Like I said it's not like I don't get it I do and for some ppl I'm sure fem works. But hindsite is 20/20 and I really believe that this is not a good move. Just from what I have seen happen here. Peace out Headband707

So I hate to say this but sounds like people blaming bad enviroments for bad breeding. Sounds like people blaming breeding technique for poor breeding practices.. It really doesnt change the dynamics because those envolved are doing it for fun or profit. It takes a bit of common sense to grow and be able to access good genetics at a reasonable cost. Ive been running the same fem version of pineapple express for about a year now and loving it... /shrug.

 

[darwinsbulldog]

The best thing a stressed male plant can do is hasten pollen production, it makes no sense at all to go through sex reversal if the stressed plant already senses the available resources or photoperiod indicates bad chances of survival.

As for the F/M ratio idea; how would a plant calculate such a thing?

a stressed male may increase pollen production to increase his chances of survival, higher chance of pollinating another with more pollen produced, but any male that produces female flowers that are fertile will almost definitely self or be fertilized by other males around and will thus produce seed. thus not requiring females... these are strategies for out in nature, not necessarily used or wanted in breeding etc.

re f/m ratio. a single plant doesn't calculate such a thing, it has no nervous system so it simply can't calculate it. as i said before though, like in any common natural population of organisms there's variation, in Cannabis there will be a whole bell curve of males that never show female flowers and are pure males, through males that rarely to sometimes do, to males that always do. most common males will be in the middle somewhere. depending on environmental conditions each one of these male types can be advantageous or disadvantageous. if there are no females around for whatever reason then the ONLY way for seed to be produced is by at least some males producing female flowers. these males will most likely pass their genes on to the next generation, those who don't produce female flowers will be less likely to do so. in the following generation there will thus be a higher amount of males that show female flowers, this is natural selection. due to the environment changing (no females) a new equilibrium is reached where there is a higher proportion of males that throw female flowers even though in a population with a 50-50 ratio this wouldn't be ideal. but once the male selfs or is crossed, XY x XY it'll produce XX females in the next gen and then the equilibrium would eventually go back to 50-50 F/M ratio if this scheme is fitter than the other.

 

[darwinsbulldog]

hmm .. that wasnt what the quote was referencing. I do think Darwin covered it well though. I also think that subdio.. populations are pretty 'cost-effective' and thus why prevelant in most land races I know of. There is a reason landraces require work before release ...

yeah that's it there's a reason so called "hermies" exist and are so common. they have a beneficial use to a Cannabis population in the wild and even more so in a breeders grow room from the point of view of the plant not the breeder. if that wasn't the case they wouldn't exist, natural selection would've removed them many millions of years before they were a nuisance to breeders if they'd had a negative affect on the fitness of the species.

 

[englishrick]

It DOES happen...several of us here have had them ourselves. A male that begins growing female flowers happens. Probably as much as females that go "hermi". We just kill 99% of males and never get to see them "hermi".

yeh,,ive had 1!!

first it was male,,,,after 6 months as a clone it turned fully female,,,,,im guessing it has something to do with the X/Autosome dosage system

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Take a seeds fem it

It isn't as simple as you think it is.

You need to have a grasp of what breeding is all about first.
Selection is what you need to understand, and selection is the key to all breeding strategies.
You can repeat that fem seeds brings about hermies all you want, it will not make it true. It isn't true. You are passing hocus pocus bullshit when you make those statements.
And your arguments all hinge on the fact that you claim fems create hermies. In fact, that is what most of you folks who have not done their homework claim. It is not true, and you are only looking silly by continuing to keep such ignorance alive.

Oh, and your big time buddies weed having seeds, has NOTHING to do with the popularity of fem seeds. It was from hack pollen chucks, nothing more. Big time hack pollen chucks...lol...
lol..underground pollen chucks...

btw...I am pretty sure you and I are done here...it is obvious you like the view from the wagon.