Caregivers, what are you offering patients?

[HELLOSMILY]

I offer them a little bit of this

And a little bit of that

hell yea bro.. thats what im talkin about...nice

 

[hgherbals420]

Tasty, sticky deliciousness mr weekend! Bet those are some killer meds. What strains?

 

[Greenmopho]

Caregivers, what are you offering patients?

I guess I'll just turn everything into oil...Have you ever seen 10oz of earwax???
Just start making edibles, hash, salves, tincture ect...a simple slight of hand on the listed dosage should provide enough protection from the simple minded..

Hate to burst your bubble, but I don't think you can sell those items, even as a caregiver, without the infused products license and a commercial kitchen. I think there will be enforcement on this. The infused products license has the biggest loophole, it also has the most corporate interest, and since you are making "food", the health department will have their say, too. Unforutunately, I don't think they will leave the loophole unguarded. Big companies who have invested into dedicated facilities for concentrates and extractions won't want to compete with caregivers in their houses...so the cops will come knockin'. And I'm sure they will end up busting a caregiver with not the best "moral character" or whatever, and catch em making a smokable hash or hash oil (which in a smokable form isn't mentioned in A20 or 1284 and is not a medical product) and hit them hard with some drug manufacturing charges, selling their excess, etc. just to make an example out of them. Big companies will rule and the only LEGAL option for excess meds will be the toilet....I hope this doesn't end up happening, and I love hash & hash oil, but as I mentioned, smokable hash isn't listed under any MMJ law as a legal product, only the green stuff & edibles. Cops will know the loopholes better than us...

 

[SGMeds]

Big companies who have invested into dedicated facilities for concentrates and extractions won't want to compete with caregivers in their houses...so the cops will come knockin'.

u just sent chills down my back... seriously. likely because it hits so close to the truth. fukd up.

 

[funkfingers]

Was just telling him you can turn all your excess into concentrates, 1284 only applies to people with over 5 patients..aka centers.

This new law pretty much makes it so I'm out of any kind of mmj job anyway..I have no intention giving my tax money to an industry that wants nothing to do with me..back to the old ways, I just will stick to what it says in amendment 20..Prob not even gonna take on in patients..

by the way -Straight from amendment 20
(i) "Usable form of marijuana" means the seeds, leaves, buds, and flowers of the plant (genus) cannabis, and any mixture or preparation thereof, which are appropriate for medical use as provided in this section, but excludes the plant's stalks, stems, and roots.



tell me a doctor that will testify that smoking flowers, or eating them unprepared is medically valuable..In fact most DR will recommend concentrates for smoking if you are going to be inhaling combusted anything it might as well be just straight to the point-( I love the taste of herb,and the different highs that come with it, but to deal with crushed discs and nerves it doesn't cut it for pain) Most Dr's will say that edibles, salves, and tinctures, and various other forms of orally administrated concentrates are the way to go.. We could go on and on but green I highly doubt any jury will convict someone on a manufacture charge for making concentrated products.. Hash oil however, if enough idiots start trying to make it, that WILL be made illegal..

 

[Greenmopho]

Was just telling him you can turn all your excess into concentrates, 1284 only applies to people with over 5 patients..aka centers.

This new law pretty much makes it so I'm out of any kind of mmj job anyway..I have no intention giving my tax money to an industry that wants nothing to do with me..back to the old ways, I just will stick to what it says in amendment 20..Prob not even gonna take on in patients..

by the way -Straight from amendment 20
(i) "Usable form of marijuana" means the seeds, leaves, buds, and flowers of the plant (genus) cannabis, and any mixture or preparation thereof, which are appropriate for medical use as provided in this section, but excludes the plant's stalks, stems, and roots.



tell me a doctor that will testify that smoking flowers, or eating them unprepared is medically valuable..In fact most DR will recommend concentrates for smoking if you are going to be inhaling combusted anything it might as well be just straight to the point-( I love the taste of herb,and the different highs that come with it, but to deal with crushed discs and nerves it doesn't cut it for pain) Most Dr's will say that edibles, salves, and tinctures, and various other forms of orally administrated concentrates are the way to go.. We could go on and on but green I highly doubt any jury will convict someone on a manufacture charge for making concentrated products.. Hash oil however, if enough idiots start trying to make it, that WILL be made illegal..

Not trying to go on and on....I am with you on that 100%, and so are most doctors, i'm sure...I am just referring to the "other" point of view....the conservative/corporate view. Even doctors will argue that this concentrates and edibles should be made in a controlled "medical" fashion, as in, not in a home kitchen or backyard. That is where the law and 1284 will come in and say only licensed infused product manufactures are approved to work with these substances, not home caregivers, regardless of any approval for growing/caregiving in your home or tax exemptions. I am not trying to be a bitch about it, shit, I'm makin' some hash myself right now! LOL, I'm just trying to project what I see coming out of this in the future, and this scenario seems more than likely. And like you said, idiots blowing their houses up trying to make BHO, or dispensaries selling half-ass solvent extractions that could be detrimental to your health....the way the law is already crafted, pretty soon you'll only be buying your hash oil from GlaxoSmithKline....

 

[cannagirl]

pretty soon you'll only be buying your hash oil from GlaxoSmithKline....

VOMMIT!!!!!

 

[Skunkmiester]

Even if you interpret it as your patient can grow 6 and you (cg) can grow 6, which is what I believe is the case.... the point is.... what are you going to do with your "extra meds".. you "could" sell it to your patients (at cost.. no profit).. but you're patients really don't need it, as they have grown their own.. and you can't legally sell it to anyone else.

Uuuhh actually cg's can and do sell to other patients and cg's it is the law. Also you do not have to have a "Infused License" to just make hash and or concentrates, just need one for combining the food and meds together and then RE-SELLING THEM.If you choose to just make a give away medibles then thats ok. And last no cg can have an infused license only disp or kitchens because you then no longer a cg...hahaha! I love how this stupid shit works, it will fall apart soon enough.

 

[Skunkmiester]

I offer them a little bit of this

And a little bit of that

Good stuff dude.

 

[HokuLoa]

Uuuhh actually cg's can and do sell to other patients and cg's it is the law.

Uh, you may want to brush up on the law. This WAS the case as interpreted through Amend 20. However, post HB 1284 you are unfortunately incorrect. HB1284 specifically addressed and prohibits this. The new law only allows sales/distribution from caregiver to their 5 patients. All other transfers of medicine are illegal or are subject to the regulation under the "center" model. Hopefully we will see some hefty legal battling to rectify this absurd change...

 

[HokuLoa]

Old system: patients get monthly allotment (1/8-ounces) dependent on need (medical and financial) that is in essence subsidized by the sales of THEIR plant excess to dispensaries/other caregivers.

New system (closed 5patient model): legal subsidy impossible so patients regrettably must actually purchase their meds with no monthly allotment. Lets face it, cultivating costs money as well as passion. With 5patients and a desire to stay legal one must sell rather than give to the patients unless one is willing to altruistically personally pay for the patients' needs. This system sucks horrendously for the patient as well as for the conscientious caregiver. However, I look at it in somewhat more nuanced terms. I provide a medicine (and service) that in most cases is vastly superior and ethically produced than that found in "centers." My "retail" price for patients is also less than those found in centers. Combine that with my personal attention and tailored medicinal production and I am a FAR better choice for patients with even the most thorough cost/benefit analysis. Regrettably, with only 5 patients covering the operating costs free meds are no longer a reality for LEGAL caregivers.

THIS is why HB1284 and the new regulatory scheme are such an affront to patients' rights and benefit. THIS (among other reasons) is why the medical cannabis community should strongly consider opting out of the new laws and should fight tooth and nail for RATIONAL regulation. This new law totally screws REAL patients and caregivers as it tries to attack the rampant expansion of recreational access in the guise of "medicinal use."

If you think I'm wrong, consider this scenario:

You are a caregiver to 10 patients who wants to remain totally legal and must (once they issue the forms) shed 5 patients from your care/service. Say 5 of those patients are financially more secure/able to pay, are perhaps less medically needy, but also consistently buy more medicine because they choose to medicate with edibles. Say, also that your other 5 patients are MUCH more medically needy (MS, AIDS, terminal cancer etc) but are also due to medical bills and fixed, low-income essentially a charity case for you. Before, you could gladly supply the latter patients with free harvest QPs that neither they nor you could afford w/o subsidy by sale of excess. Now, the only legal and financially plausible decision is to drop these needy patients in favor of the former 5 who could actually contribute financially (and make the new LEGAL 5 patient home bus. possible). Of course this is ethically and morally abhorrent decision but this is what the new legal distinction the state is imposing virtually REQUIRES!! The new law forces us as cannabis professionals to choose b/w our moral/ethical (legal as well) commitment to patients' wellbeing and the cold, hard financial reality of running a LEGAL business.

Shame on them!!!

 

[Skunkmiester]

I nor anyone including biz associates are able to find anything accurately detailing what you are stating here. Once again we are left with grey area. It does state that we can only charge for cost of cultivation and our cg services(up to our interpretation) thats it, oh and that centers must grow 70% and buy 30% if needed from other centers only, which inevitably means they can't buy from us anymore. A patient without a cg or center as a provider and not growing their own has a legal right to obtain medication from me.

 

[HokuLoa]

I nor anyone including biz associates are able to find anything accurately detailing what you are stating here. Once again we are left with grey area.

Well, it is actually a lot less "grey" now. I would be SUPER wary of trying to protect yourself with the "interpretations" possible pre-1284. For instance and more to the point:

"(2) IT IS UNLAWFUL FOR A PERSON TO BUY, SELL, TRANSFER, GIVE AWAY, OR ACQUIRE MEDICAL MARIJUANA EXCEPT AS ALLOWED PURSUANT TO THIS ARTICLE."

Combine that with the fairly detailed articulation of the new 5 patient "Caregiver" model (hmm, wasn't that constitutionally defeated??? grrrrrr...) and you have your "detail." They lay out the caregiver/home bus model and restrict it to a 5 patient/caregiver relationship (complete with expanded emphasis on "substantial responsibility"). The previous clause makes illegal any non-Center transfer of meds outside of this 6 person caregiver/patient group. This is blk/wht, not grey.

This is why the new laws are so detrimental for patient access and for the legal protection of real, professional cannabis caregivers. Sorry to burst your bubble but this is why everyone REALLY needs to critically read and understand the new laws and regulations. They are every bit as frightening and overzealous as we feared they might be.

Good luck and fly safely!

 

[milehighmedical]

.

 

[HokuLoa]

I originally thought this was the case, but have found out other wise. If you're your own caregiver (which you have to be to caregive for others) you count as one of those 5. You're effectively limited to 30 plants. So, no table for 6. But I'm pretty sure you can transfer/trade outside that group with other patients. Just not for profit.

Hmm, doesn't mesh with my understanding since you are technically not allowed to be your own "caregiver." By growing your own 6 you are using your rights as a patient, not as a caregiver for yourself as a patient. Silly distinction but worthy of understanding for obvious reasons. As for the inclusion of your own patient rights as the 5th patient in your caregiver business... I'm actually not sure. This seems grey to me. For instance, can you not have a business/residence for the express purpose of serving your 5 patients as a caregiver and simultaneously maintain a private residence in which you have your own plant count as a patient...? Thanks for the heads up. I'll explore...

As for the "transfer/trade outside," the aforementioned clause seems to explicitly prohibit this. They really are trying to dismantle any legal distribution outside of the 5 patient model and outside of the regulated and trackable Center model. A legally conservative read narrows the scope of the legal caregiver/patient distribution (whether monetized or not) from the interpreted Amend 20 understanding to a closed network of caregiver and immediate patient. Purely supposition but I assume this is to provide a narrow legal distinction that allows enforcement agents more to control/target.

 

[Greenmopho]

Caregivers, what are you offering patients?

Hmm, doesn't mesh with my understanding since you are technically not allowed to be your own "caregiver." By growing your own 6 you are using your rights as a patient, not as a caregiver for yourself as a patient. Silly distinction but worthy of understanding for obvious reasons. As for the inclusion of your own patient rights as the 5th patient in your caregiver business... I'm actually not sure. This seems grey to me. For instance, can you not have a business/residence for the express purpose of serving your 5 patients as a caregiver and simultaneously maintain a private residence in which you have your own plant count as a patient...? Thanks for the heads up. I'll explore...

As for the "transfer/trade outside," the aforementioned clause seems to explicitly prohibit this. They really are trying to dismantle any legal distribution outside of the 5 patient model and outside of the regulated and trackable Center model. A legally conservative read narrows the scope of the legal caregiver/patient distribution (whether monetized or not) from the interpreted Amend 20 understanding to a closed network of caregiver and immediate patient. Purely supposition but I assume this is to provide a narrow legal distinction that allows enforcement agents more to control/target.

Thats also what I thought, but what do I know...this is why I have an attorney, so I'm not just guessing...

HokuLoa, the way you speak with conviction, I think we have the same lawyer!

 

[Skunkmiester]

Man I refuse continue to get on here and argue with ignorance. You still have yet to post accurate documentation supporting your outlandish accusations. It says you cannot have a primary and be a primary. It never says anything about giving up a right if you choose to help others. This is absurd to be on different sides of the interpretation especially when one is taking the less favorable approach, way to go.There is no specifics to back up anything you are saying and I have every copy of all versions available to the public and I have been to the majority of the senate hearings and never heard on either side, of any of these absurdities as being included or wanting to be included.If you 2 have the same lawyer...you getting ripped off. Oh last keep in mind anyone other Matt Cook is just guessing.

 

[Greenmopho]

Man I refuse continue to get on here and argue with ignorance. You still have yet to post accurate documentation supporting your outlandish accusations. It says you cannot have a primary and be a primary. It never says anything about giving up a right if you choose to help others. This is absurd to be on different sides of the interpretation especially when one is taking the less favorable approach, way to go.There is no specifics to back up anything you are saying and I have every copy of all versions available to the public and I have been to the majority of the senate hearings and never heard on either side, of any of these absurdities as being included or wanting to be included.If you 2 have the same lawyer...you getting ripped off. Oh last keep in mind anyone other Matt Cook is just guessing.

Who is calling anyone ignorant? We are trying to have a debate and argue our respective interpretations and opinions. Who says you are giving up what right? Just because we all have different interpretations doesn't make the most favorable one for the grower or patient to be the correct one. Some of us don't have time to go to every meeting and read every detail. I have read through 1284 many times, and damn near memorized A20, I've also gone to as many local meetings as I can. However, did I go to law school? Did I spend years defending people over little discrepancies in the wording of the law? No, thats what the professionals are for. Yes, everyone but Matt Cook is guessing, but don't you think someone more versed in the legal jargon and due process has a more valid guess and interpretation than we do? I understand, we don't like lawyers, they take our money when bad shit happens, and in most cases they tend to have slime-ball personalities...this is a product of capitalism. But the law's side has a million judges, lobbyists, politicians, liars, and lawyers on their side, carefully crafting every move and every word, do you really think we can hang up against that without an attorney or two on our side?

I don't think we are saying anything that preposterous? Just giving you some insight to what our attorneys have told us after paying money for consultations. If you don't want us sharing this information, let us know, I was just trying to add some "professional" advice instead of stoners' interpretations...

When you are in court standing in front of the judge, will you still guard your interpretation without an attorney present?

 

[straintester]

Hey guys!
Grow for the love of it.
I am not in the states but offer my patient as many strains as he wants. If there is any strain he is interested in I do my best to get it for him and grow it. I have grown up to 24 different stains for him so he has no complaints BUT I cannot afford to give it away so he compensates me for my time and effort.

My license is for my patient and I wouldn't be legally allowed to grow if it were not for him so he ALWAYS comes first.

Be nice to each other.

 

[Greenmopho]

11. The rules will be created over a six month process and will be binding. That means what Mr. Cook says today may or may not be established by rule in the future. Anticipate the most conservative view of HB1284 and expand beyond that when the rule permits such expansion.

Just to add some backing support to my point of view...