voting no on this bill is a bad idea. voting yes is a good idea. 
Growers are just saying NO to pot legalization
- Thread starter DIGITALHIPPY
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Over 80,000 arrests in California and it ain't broke?
California leads the nation in state arrests.
As for what is a fait price, let me ask you how many fruit and veggies you would eat if they were grown indoors under lights and sold for several thousand dollars a pound?
You are a protected monopoly wise up.
I support the Tax and Regulate bill, and big agribiz kicking your butt on prices, once they start growing legal outdoors in the central valley.
It is not bad to try and preserve your livelihood, but at what cost to the over 800,000 Cannabis arrests in the USA each year? Is your livelihood really more important then all of them? They are our mothers, fathers, brothers, sisters, neighbors, and I for one think they are way more important then your livelihood, I think if you were honest so would you...
PS I can outdoors grow a one kilo dry plant for less then the cost of one gram of the best herb in California. If you think that is fair what can I say?
Maybe just maybe you are wrong....
-SamS
I love how you call it a fair price, because you're the one taking in the money! What dictates that a plant should be sold at the extortionate prices that exist today? Because people like you are happy to take peoples money for it. Maybe in the current market it may seem fair but bottom line, IT ISN'T.
This bill is about more than people being able to have safe access to over priced herb semi-legally (most people aren't really sick are they), which is what 215 achieved. It is about normalisation and public acceptance. And $300-$600 an oz is not normal for a crop. Not by a long shot. This bill will open doors for scientific research, the hemp industry and more.
Why should people vote 'no' solely for the purpose of letting amateur growers like you and others here continue to run and profit from the mmj scene? And no just because you make a living from it doesnt make you a pro, the very fact people support themselves with a basement and 3000W of light and no experience of botany or agriculture just shows what a joke the current situation is.
The mom and Pop operations you talk of will go out of business, for the fact they are ran by amateur growers (lets face it, that's what 99% of us here at the site are unless you've ran a farm before), they will be replaced by hard working farmers who have the skills to produce good quality product on a larger scale. Just as every other crop is produced. There will still be space for smaller scale growers producing a connoisseur quality product as there is with most crops.
Let me repeat an earlier post:
The astronomical profits people make from growing this plant are just a side effect of prohibition.
Nothing more, its not because you're super growers with super strains, its because of the legal grey area you all continue to exploit (along with the truely sick people who depend on your product). You are fighting a bill which will pave the road for cannabis becoming a crop like any other, one that isn't inflated by its prohibited status. You are fighting to continue the legacy of prohibition.
White-rhino
Member
Looks like the most accurate poll available is also saying no.
Big drop this week.
http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/common/c_cd.jsp?conDetailID=702407&z=1278511653093
Big drop this week.
http://www.intrade.com/jsp/intrade/common/c_cd.jsp?conDetailID=702407&z=1278511653093
BigBudBill
Member
LOL. That's a speculation website not an accurate poll.
BigBudBill
Member
Here is the latest Poll results as posted from wikipedia:
An April 2009 field poll found 56% of Californians supported the legalization of marijuana. An April 2010 SurveyUSA poll also found 56% support, with a margin of error of 4.4%. Support for legalization broke down as follows:
Age
Under 35 - 74%
35 to 49 - 46%
50 to 64 - 49%
65 and over - 39%
Gender
Men - 65%
Women - 46%
Race/Ethnicity
Asians - 58%
Blacks - 67%
Hispanics - 45%
Whites - 59%
An April 2009 field poll found 56% of Californians supported the legalization of marijuana. An April 2010 SurveyUSA poll also found 56% support, with a margin of error of 4.4%. Support for legalization broke down as follows:
Age
Under 35 - 74%
35 to 49 - 46%
50 to 64 - 49%
65 and over - 39%
Gender
Men - 65%
Women - 46%
Race/Ethnicity
Asians - 58%
Blacks - 67%
Hispanics - 45%
Whites - 59%
S
Smoke Buddy
80% of the "arrests" in Cali in 2009 are actually misdemeaner tickets that are 100 bucks. These people did not go to jail. The reason Cali cops are writing so many tickets is because they need the money and its pretty much like a j-walking ticket so lets keep it in perspective. The other 20% are still getting busted under the proposed new law except now everybody will pay the 100 bucks just on their first 2 bags....
215forLife
Member
Well thanks for the clarification,..
Still going to ask a friend who is a state attorney about application of limits being the state supreme court struck down limits as 215 didn't specify any and this does. If so then imma going to have to correct someone that's needs it too.
I just hope you realize we all want the samething and that's to do what we want with herb without fear of going to prison for it.
Still going to ask a friend who is a state attorney about application of limits being the state supreme court struck down limits as 215 didn't specify any and this does. If so then imma going to have to correct someone that's needs it too.
I just hope you realize we all want the samething and that's to do what we want with herb without fear of going to prison for it.
White-rhino
Member
I beg to differ. Last election just as an example intrade was off by one electoral vote in all 50 states. Predicted the sum of all states to be Obama, 364, McCain, 174. Actual result was 365/173. So basicly hit every state with perfect accuracy and the polls varied outside that accuracy, depending on which poll you followed.
When money is involved, bias is removed.
So, a trade of 46 at intrade is something to worry about. Especially a sudden drop. I'd say if it goes any lower, kiss that proposition good bye.
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To find out why it has taken such a large dip. I believe it could be due to a CA Senate bill which looks to be headed to the governors desk to be signed which would lower possesion from a misdemeanor to an infraction.
http://blog.norml.org/2010/06/25/ca...makers-moving-forward-with-decriminalization/
80% huh...show us the link.
Also..even if that is true...you still think 16,000[based on your numbers] people going to jail is worth it? Nice guy
S
Smoke Buddy
Ironically, the new law would still jail those same peeps. The law only lets you have an ounce. (edit: only lets you carry an ounce)
I dont have the link handy.. Ill look for it but it mirrors the percentages that were nationwide as follows, but this is for 2008:
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Of those charged with marijuana violations, approximately 89 percent, 754,224 Americans were charged with possession only. The remaining 93,640 individuals were charged with “sale/manufacture,” a category that includes all cultivation offenses, even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use.
http://blog.norml.org/2009/09/14/breaking-news-marijuana-arrests-for-year-2008-847864/
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Here in Cali, simple possession is a misdemeaner 100 dollar fine and expunges off your record in 2 years. It is actually more than 80%...
peace
I dont have the link handy.. Ill look for it but it mirrors the percentages that were nationwide as follows, but this is for 2008:
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Of those charged with marijuana violations, approximately 89 percent, 754,224 Americans were charged with possession only. The remaining 93,640 individuals were charged with “sale/manufacture,” a category that includes all cultivation offenses, even those where the marijuana was being grown for personal or medical use.
http://blog.norml.org/2009/09/14/breaking-news-marijuana-arrests-for-year-2008-847864/
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Here in Cali, simple possession is a misdemeaner 100 dollar fine and expunges off your record in 2 years. It is actually more than 80%...
peace
is an oz not enough for you to carry arround with you? I dont get it. The bill will alow you to kepp as much bud as you can grow in a 5x5. If you can get 3lbs or 20lbs for a 5x5 you get to keep it all. You can only carry 1oz of it with you.
Anybody who is worried that legalization will spell an end to their quick-easy money....
...can always start a meth lab. It won't be legal anytime soon and the people who like meth REALLY like meth. They'll be thrilled to pay out the ass for your low quality product. Try not to blow yourself up when you're making it.
...can always start a meth lab. It won't be legal anytime soon and the people who like meth REALLY like meth. They'll be thrilled to pay out the ass for your low quality product. Try not to blow yourself up when you're making it.
^ thats such a BS statement anti....you`re takin shit way out of context...so now all mom and pop growers should be meth dealers? fucking ridiculous.
BigBudBill
Member
Yes4Prop215:I have nothing but Respect for you brother but I have to say:
Black Market is Black Market. If Mom and Pop's gig is to make money from the risk factor of cannabis, then what is the difference? Just like mom and pop shiners at the end of alcohol prohibition changed to growing cannabis. It wasnt that they cared about their "craft". It was that they couldnt make AS MUCH money in the legal alcohol market. I have family from east Tennessee, in Cocke County. The moonshine capitol of Tennessee. All the old shiners grow mountain pot. Best nugs around. Why did they change from moonshine to pot? $$$ risk.
Don't feel sorry for Mom and Pop without thinking about their motives. Watch how many actually take that leap to some other illegal drug as their cannabis $$$ go down, rather than get their piece of the legit pie being served.
White Rhino: Ok. I understand that site reflects people's opinions and speculation and is a poll of sorts, but: do people out of state and their speculation(I know people in Alabama that don't even believe there are actually dispensaries anywhere in America)affect those results? How accurate is it to regional or state issues? That was a great example of a federal issue, but can you give an example of a local issue? I am just curious as to how someone out of the region affects the polls.
Black Market is Black Market. If Mom and Pop's gig is to make money from the risk factor of cannabis, then what is the difference? Just like mom and pop shiners at the end of alcohol prohibition changed to growing cannabis. It wasnt that they cared about their "craft". It was that they couldnt make AS MUCH money in the legal alcohol market. I have family from east Tennessee, in Cocke County. The moonshine capitol of Tennessee. All the old shiners grow mountain pot. Best nugs around. Why did they change from moonshine to pot? $$$ risk.
Don't feel sorry for Mom and Pop without thinking about their motives. Watch how many actually take that leap to some other illegal drug as their cannabis $$$ go down, rather than get their piece of the legit pie being served.
White Rhino: Ok. I understand that site reflects people's opinions and speculation and is a poll of sorts, but: do people out of state and their speculation(I know people in Alabama that don't even believe there are actually dispensaries anywhere in America)affect those results? How accurate is it to regional or state issues? That was a great example of a federal issue, but can you give an example of a local issue? I am just curious as to how someone out of the region affects the polls.
No. read my post. If your reason to keep it illegal is because you like the profits... just go into a different illegal business. Anybody who can't deal with having to go into a LEGITIMATE BUSINESS MODEL can still use their ILLEGITIMATE BUSINESS SKILLS to transition into a different, sought after illegitimate business.
Like it or not, people who are growing herb that gets into non-medicinal pipes are DRUG DEALERS. (But they only SELL to the dealers, you say? that's STILL A DRUG DEALER.)
The reason I started growing my own was because I was sick of waiting 45 minutes for some guy who didn't have a job or a concept of what my time was worth to bring me (at his convenience) something that was not usually worth what he was charging me, but I didn't have any other options but to take it or go wait for some other similarly unfocused dishonest individual to provide similar service.
That guy had a decent car, a sneaker collection, a house, expensive computers, etc.... while I worked for a living to provide him with that stuff.
Now that I provide for myself I spend that extra $500+ a month I was giving him taking care of ME and MY needs and MY goals.
I provide for me, but I could go bigger and provide for my neighborhood, but that would make me a DRUG DEALER.
On the other hand if you vote Yes and this becomes a law, I can consider going into a LEGITIMATE BUSINESS. And I can then weigh the pros and cons of that business model and find a way to make it work. That's what capitalism is all about.
If you think nobody will buy your ultra-primo stuff because they can get some mass-market bullshit at 7-11, you don't understand pot heads.
You can buy a bottle of Burnett's Vodka for $7.99 and some people do. they're still in business. Or you can buy a bottle of Grey Goose for $29.99. People do. They're still in business, too.
Some people don't give a fuck and they are FORCED to buy what you give them because they don't have options. If that's your business model, you're a crappy businessman and kinda a dick.
Some people do give a fuck and they will pay a premium (within reason) to have whatever they like best. Mom and Pop can cultivate great strains and sell to a few choice clients and get on by.
Or Mom and Pop can get a loan and become Burnetts or Grey Goose.
And don't forget, you can STILL find a market for moonshine if you like the thrill of illegal booze.
I see what your saying Anti and if it was legalized i would be thrilled that we are taking a step forward towards freedom. I love growing, i wouldn't love having a meth lab. Since i started smoking i've always envisioned legalization. But since i started growing i look at another aspect. Growing is my job. And unfortunately, money is what makes the world go round. As far as being a drug dealer, i don't believe there is anything wrong with MJ, i believe everyone should have the choice and i believe it with a clear conscience. Just because the law says what is right or wrong, doesn't mean it is. In my mind, people who see me as a drug dealer only see me that way because the law tells them to. And i don't care what people who don't think for themselves think about me. It's not even them thinking it, it's society. I believe America is designed for people to fail and stay in place. Growing is a loop hole to that. I get to do something i love and live a nice life because of it.
The most important reason i would vote no is because i believe that corporations will end up taking over and regular growers won't be able to compete with their prices. Cigarettes and alcohol are the only things in america that don't have to have the ingredients labeled on them. i feel the same thing would happen with the MJ and it would get chemicals put in it which is not a step towards freedom.
I Basically just wanted to imply that the growers who would vote no aren't all greedy and money hungry and have other aspects they are looking at.
White-rhino
Member
Well, produce doesn't have ingredients listed on it. There's also no fake (edibable) produce that I know of.
The price might go down to that of produce, or at least herbs. But then again, when I lived out there I saw a lot of produce stands along the highway.
I have a feeling there would be a lot larger market, and corporate interests must follow a lot more rules than a local grower. One big one - taxes and liability insurance. There's an opportunity right there to undercut them by about half and make just as much profit.
And if someone chimes in saying they'd rather grow illegally (and avoid taxes) rather than grow legally and avoid taxes I will come to your house and slap you.
The price might go down to that of produce, or at least herbs. But then again, when I lived out there I saw a lot of produce stands along the highway.
I have a feeling there would be a lot larger market, and corporate interests must follow a lot more rules than a local grower. One big one - taxes and liability insurance. There's an opportunity right there to undercut them by about half and make just as much profit.
And if someone chimes in saying they'd rather grow illegally (and avoid taxes) rather than grow legally and avoid taxes I will come to your house and slap you.
and all of us that feel the same way will put those corporations out of business. There not going to go buy some cannabis they dont know whats in it. Sure there's going to be low grade cannabis grown by commercial growers im not worried about these guys. My customers will come to me for the quality of my product. Its not that hard to understand. If you can't grow better pot then the big corps then no you should not be in this business. Why worry about someone growing low grade cannabis this is not your target customer base or maybe it is I dont know what you want to grow. Im going to grow the best cannabis I can. You can still make a excellent income selling your product at 100oz instead of 400.
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