Legalize MJ ! Really? No I mean REALLY?

[SmilinBob]

How did you get that out of my post?

I never said nobody should grow anything. I said nobody should grow anything that will be for sale to the general public without passing safety tests.

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Grapeman I fail to grasp whatever point you are trying to make.

Why is regulation bad? Is it so bad that it justifies the continuation of 80k+ annual arrests? You say this is our only argument as if these arrests are nothing more than random numbers on a piece of paper. This is a human rights issue. People are having their lifes ruined so that some greedy prick in his mansion can chalk up another $50k per year at the tax payees expense.

Regulation is usually for the benefit of the consumer. In this case it's benefitial for all...

Can't wait to hear your response...

 

[WeSeekTheTruth]

How did you get that out of my post?

I never said nobody should grow anything. I said nobody should grow anything that will be for sale to the general public without passing safety tests.

Have you ever seen all of the farmers markets around the world?

I understand exactly where you're coming from.

Nobody safety checks about 95% of vegetables that are consumed in this country. You can sell vegetables grown in your back yard anywhere you want. Nobody will stop you.

A lot more people eat vegetables than use cannabis.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

See - there it is. You are talking what is effective today and I am telling you the way it will probably work in the future. I understand what you are saying now, and I keep pointing out what is coming.... not in november, but someday, as old people die and the youth turn middle age. And when it happens, it will be regulated by several branches of the government.

I know it was too much to ask, but I did so several times.... for you to go back and read the OP so you would have context. But you don't.

But you are smarter then most posters..... at least you think you are. Dangerous thinking.

Anyway, if you grow a plant or 2 at home, NP. Intend to sell to a club or start your own club, you better understand what is coming. Because it is coming.

probably sooner than anyone realizes. if they were going to do that, which they will, the smart way, putting the horse before the cart, is to effect the labeling standards, while mj is "contained" in mmj dispensaries. then the system would be in place, if, and when.

all vacuum packed, labeled, and ready to go

note that many dispensaries already test for THC content

 

[igrowone]

until federal law changes, no federal agency will touch a MJ grow, other than a law enforcement agency
federal law would have to change
you need 60 votes in the senate to make this happen
at this time, i'd say you'd be lucky to get both Cali senators to support that kind of change
60 votes in the senate is ways off, a long ways off

 

[SmilinBob]

Have you ever seen all of the farmers markets around the world?

No I haven't

I understand exactly where you're coming from.

Great, we have something in common.

Nobody safety checks about 95% of vegetables that are consumed in this country.

Where do you get your numbers?

You can sell vegetables grown in your back yard anywhere you want. Nobody will stop you.

Yea, I know. That's exactly what I said in previous posts.. What's the problem here.

 

[grapeman]

Grapeman I fail to grasp whatever point you are trying to make.

Why is regulation bad? Is it so bad that it justifies the continuation of 80k+ annual arrests? You say this is our only argument as if these arrests are nothing more than random numbers on a piece of paper. This is a human rights issue. People are having their lifes ruined so that some greedy prick in his mansion can chalk up another $50k per year at the tax payees expense.

Regulation is usually for the benefit of the consumer. In this case it's benefitial for all...

Can't wait to hear your response...

This thread was started to let folks like you know that when this product is fully legal (will be someday) that the common grower, maybe you, maybe someone else, will have many other hurdles to clear. As I have said in previous posts, a grower/supplier will be inundated with government regulations. Not just the regulations that you need to abide by, but regulations that will force you to take action.

I live by these now. Someone posted a bit back about we are a capitalistic country. I would tend to disagree. Having started my business in the early 1980's, we were much freer from government and their non sensical ever increasing regulations. I guarantee you that it will prevent small growers from becoming big growers and non growers from becoming growers at all. I think it is common in many threads to demonize large corporations and big business. But these businesses have grown over the years to the size they are largely due to government regulations which keep competition out.

Outdoor farming is rife with government regulations. Especially in socialist california. From having to keep records to guarantee that drinking water comes from a municipal water company (no matter if your well produces BETTER water then in town), to full time pesticide and fertilizer reporting to the government weekly (what employee applies what, how they mixed it, how they applied it, what the weather was like when it was applied and at what rates), to keeping records of your worker training and having those employees sign off on the training, to un-necessary safety equipment that is mandated but often not used by employees who recognize the folly of un-necessary equipment (don't get caught not using the safety stuff or a large fine will be forthcoming), to OSHA and their bullshit, having your scales certified monthly by "Weights & Measures", to the coming "Labeling" of products, so a producer/distributor can put his "mark" on a product and build brand loyalty (don't forget to trademark your labels). Regulations are massive for farmers/food producers/pharmaceuticals. Where will this crop fall into the regulation scheme of the government? This is the tip of the iceberg for farming but the regulation list is too long.

This is why large companies get larger. All these government regulations make it prohibitive for an entrepreneur to enter a business, let lone the farming business. I believe that the passage of this bill (a bill is NEEDED), that gives too much leeway to local interpretations, is not well written. And as the populace pulls their government to legalizing this product, which they will in the near term (10 years), will bring over burdening regulation. I'm sure there will be some sort of tax system so the producer will need to deal with that also.

Do I care? Not a wit. I do all this now, do you?

I started this thread just to inform people that when the product becomes legal, it will come under uber regulations that are business and consumer unfriendly..... consumer unfriendly due to the added costs of abiding by these coming regulations will increase the cost of production of a simple weed, and that cost will always be passed on to the consumer. I know that the folks that frequent this site don't care much because they will continue their cab, back room or backyard grows. But MOST folks who consume don't grow and probably never will, leaving open the door to dispensaries and growers to fill the void.

When that happens, big ag is better suited to step in and do the job then most posters herein or existing dispensaries.

 

[TexasMonster]

If you do not believe what the OP is saying to be true, just look at tobacco. That is one of the most regulated industries out there. Look at the tax put onto a pack of ciggs. Its ridiculous.


That being said, if I could get a good pack of 20 joints for $6 I would be tickled pink. Well, maybe not pink.

 

[dagnabit]

If you do not believe what the OP is saying to be true, just look at tobacco. That is one of the most regulated industries out there. Look at the tax put onto a pack of ciggs. Its ridiculous.


That being said, if I could get a good pack of 20 joints for $6 I would be tickled pink. Well, maybe not pink.

how many people were arrested for possession of tobacco last year?

 

[TexasMonster]

how many people were arrested for possession of tobacco last year?

Look, we dont disagree, totally. I would love to be able to smoke grass legally. What the OP (I think) is saying is that the Govt in the middle of this is a bad thing. They should just have the brass to say "ok guys, smoke your grass" and leave it at that. They wont though, they will meddle and it is going to suck. Big agriculture is going to get into it too. They are worse than the Govt.

 

[dagnabit]

Look, we dont disagree, totally. I would love to be able to smoke grass legally. What the OP (I think) is saying is that the Govt in the middle of this is a bad thing. They should just have the brass to say "ok guys, smoke your grass" and leave it at that. They wont though, they will meddle and it is going to suck. Big agriculture is going to get into it too. They are worse than the Govt.

i get what the op is saying..

and its wrong.

there is no more regulation than complete prohibition. some people have been fooled into believing that legalization and regulation is a tightening of restrictions...
my point is this, no one was arrested in this country last year for possession of tobacco many however were arrested for possession of marijuana. yes legalization comes with regulation. that regulation is much less than current regulation. starting a business is hard! i dont care if it is AG or food services or legal or service..it all comes with its own set of challenges.

i for one WANT you to have to sign and show ID in order to buy a ton of NH4NO3
and my clients like the fact that my surveys are produced by a licensed,bonded,insured and continually educated surveyor

 

[grapeman]

how many people were arrested for possession of tobacco last year?

You keep on avoiding the original topic of this thread and insist on posting dribble. If you live in CA, get a med card. If you don't, then why do you care what we do in CA?

Or worse still, you are just a ne'er-do-well, and and waiting for someone to do something for you at no cost to you, which is my bet.

And by the way, PLENTY OF FUCKING PEOPLE were arrested for possession of tobacco last year. don't you read the paper? For selling and distributing cigarettes (tobacco) that DIDN'T HAVE THE FEDERAL TAX STAMP ON IT.
Ever heard of the ATF? That's what they do full fucking time. Look for people that are distributing booze and tobacco (and firearms) without the permission of the federal government.

Your own arguments are full of shit and un-true.

I guess you don't have a constructive comment to contribute to the thread. Everything you've posted has not been in context to the nature of this thread or has been outright full of shit.

Start your own thread.

 

[Flux451]

IT DOES NOT MATTER DOGNABBIT

I do not want more people growing weed with medicinal cards too, asshole dudes make unhealthy products and no offense but like the lady on TV with Oaksterdam Academy, who never smoked, her operation will probely be effective as her dieting pills, f-monsantos and people assuming entitlement to something they merely attribute entropy

I am so happy grape man is trying to knock some sense about... We need stronger networks/understanding/practices/bio-dynamics etc...

I would put all of those at the top of the list for total anilatation at this time by 'giving' away now what 'we've' stregthened to improve human conciousness and compassion

If you believe in God, thank him for putting grapeman into your dialogue

If you can't beat em' join (totalitarian tip-toe) them? NO If your on the right side, to the death, if your on the wrongside and you find things futile, get some get right. . . Think we have that these days with Ag and gov? We need far far far far more dialogue and assurences

Absolute truth = MJ should be legal
Shakey Foundation = concept of legal in USA is privitized and now unworthy

PS: Sure this is a bullshit video in the link, nevertheless check the 'think center' ideas near the end... kinda cool?

http://www.thepyramidpower.com/blog/2009/01/13/esoteric-agenda-full-movie/

PART 7/13 8:00 - ONWARD

 

[BiG H3rB Tr3E]

Grapeman, your logic is so flawed it's ridiculous... So I want to know why you think this bill is so bad you'd vote against it. Everything needs to be regulated otherwise you'd be eating rat carcass hamburgers and drinking runoff water. If recording your grow is too difficult maybe you should find a new job....

 

[dagnabit]

I see a fairly common thread in this forum. Most think and want legalization. Well, there is nothing wrong with that is there?

Well, let me clue you in a bit about our government passing laws and granting rights.

If you think it is all a fairly simple thing, think again. The only way the government can really do the right thing here is by de-criminalizing possession and use. BUT IT WILL NOT STOP THERE.

The government, our U.S. government has a very bad habit of trying not to leave any money on the table for it's citizens. So bring the tax man to the equation and let's all pony up. Imagine, paying commerce taxes on a common weed.

But wait! It gets even better. Government regulation will bring.... wait for it..... government regulation. Aside from the fact that any and all government regulation ALWAYS makes entry into that specific business more difficult and more expensive, thereby stifling competition, there are even more headaches to follow.

Enter the USDA. Want to be a grower, well be sure to follow the rules here. Specific cultural practices, such as applying the most "organic" of compounds, is a time consuming, money wasting "pain in the ass" process.

Sulfer application. Well, in order to now buy the sulfur, you need to be a licensed PCO or PCA. You must have documented to the USDA how many acres of specific crops and strains you farm (or # of plants in this case) or you cannot buy at the local Ag Supplier. Can't buy there? You will then spend more for the same product thereby making your product more expensive to produce then your competition. And be prepared to report to the local County Ag Commissioner within 3 days of applying sulfur, the rate, the product I.D., the weather and wind conditions at the time of application, and on and on. Farmers need full time secretaries just doing that ONE thing. Reporting to the government.

Then try using a registered fungicide or pesticide and multiply the problems X 10. And don't you dare deviate from the label or your crop will be Red-Tagged and dumped by the government. They cross reference the amount you buy (ag suppliers must report who bought what to the government) with the amount of acres you operate.

Then bring the quality control of proper labeling of weight and Variety. You want to play in this game? You better make and register your own labels and you better follow all the rules.

Then, the USDA will grade your product before you can sell it. Why not? It does so on EVERY other crop grown and distributed in this country.

I could go on and on but here it is in a nutshell.

Before you jump on any "legalize marijuana" bandwagon, you better make sure you read the law and you know the unintended consequences.
Because what will happen is that a VERY few VERY well funded folks will survive. The rest will be regulated out of business. The black market will never go away. But doing business there will always prevent you from being legit.

I would think just plain old de-criminalization is the way to go. But once the government sets their sights on using MJ as a tax stream, we're all fucked. There are a few well funded proponents of legalizing marijuana that know this and are using everyone's desire to de-criminalize as a way to cement their foot in the door while making sure you are never allowed in.

Think before you act.

there is no more regulation than complete prohibition. some people have been fooled into believing that legalization and regulation is a tightening of restrictions...
my point is this, no one was arrested in this country last year for possession of tobacco many however were arrested for possession of marijuana. yes legalization comes with regulation. that regulation is much less than current regulation. starting a business is hard! i dont care if it is AG or food services or legal or service..it all comes with its own set of challenges.

You keep on avoiding the original topic of this thread and insist on posting dribble.

i cant be blamed if you cant see how my above statement is in direct response to your original topic.

Or worse still, you are just a ne'er-do-well, and and waiting for someone to do something for you at no cost to you, which is my bet.

im a shifless layabout welfare queen because i understand that complete prohibition is more severe regulation than usda regulation?

And by the way, PLENTY OF FUCKING PEOPLE were arrested for possession of tobacco last year. don't you read the paper? For selling and distributing cigarettes (tobacco) that DIDN'T HAVE THE FEDERAL TAX STAMP ON IT.
Ever heard of the ATF? That's what they do full fucking time. Look for people that are distributing booze and tobacco (and firearms) without the permission of the federal government.

prove a single arrest for simple tobacco possession in 2009 (baring providing to minors)and ill delete my account and you will never see me again!

the rest of your post is just more of you using ad hominems because your arguements have all been weighed measured and found wanting

 

[Flux451]

Its not about recording, it is about killing diversity and enforcing a record to follow which is thrash which is for us to grow off of... What if I said you can only grow with chemical nutrients containing high amounts of sulfur and ammonium, hypothetical of course but damn well near the realities

The second qoute below is relevant, public being a mice among men and demons (demons included)

 

[dagnabit]

of course it all comes down to real life versus fantasy.

do i want complete decrim? fuck right i do!!!!
do any of us honestly believe that there will ever be a day that complete decrim happens?
fuck no it wont happen and it also wont rain naked big tittied blondes either.
in the real world we understand that legalization and regulation are the only way to end the human rights violations.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

how many people were arrested for possession of tobacco last year?

not many I bet. If there were only some wonderful bill that might be passed in a state like california.... say around the end of the year, that would make pot like this. ahhhhh to dream

oh wait..... this shit is real. i guess its time to vote yes.

 

[mister c]

I think that cannabis should be legal no doubt.

But am i voting for prop 19? FUCK NO.

For the same reason that was mentioned previously...the gov will ruin the integrity of cannabis. Its the only thing left good in this world they dont have there grimy hands on...yet.

 

[Anti]

I think that cannabis should be legal no doubt.

But am i voting for prop 19? FUCK NO.

For the same reason that was mentioned previously...the gov will ruin the integrity of cannabis. Its the only thing left good in this world they dont have there grimy hands on...yet.

Why not vote it legal... and then continue to operate in the blackmarket, enjoying the sudden decrease in interest in prosecuting mariijuana related crime?

If you have a superior product and distribution system, I'm sure you will be one of the ones to thrive. Hell, you could start your own national coffeehaus chain. But it has to be legal first. Federally. And this is a step forward. The biggest step any state has taken in almost 100 years.

Please think about it.