Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[ft100]

Have a group of 8 chemdawg d bx 1s that I will comparatively defoliate 4 of them to gain this experience you speak of. It makes logical sense to me so why not. They are 3-4 weeks into flower and I might have taken off too much but time will tell. Pics coming. Peace and smoke.

 

[LifeLess]

found a picture of my last grow at day 34. Strains,Light,soil,ferts are all the same as the current grow. You can see a huge diff in bud development. Im not sure but after looking at the Apollolicious i think it could be close to finished at day 38. Its close for sure.

Last grow day 34


current grow day 36

 

[SumDumGuy]

Powdery like a mofo bro!!

 

[HybridHydro]

Uhh... I am astonished, the last time I picked off leaves, my plant slowed down for a few days. This morning, the buds are bigger even than they were yesterday after I trimmed it up and there was no slow down or shock. I am going to end up with a main cola thats bigger than a can of soda and about 20 side "cola's" bigger or about the size of a bic lighter. I figure the last week of growth, I will strip the leaves bare and just run plain ole water.

I am figuring that I will get about 2 zips from it. Which will last me til my next harvest in a few weeks at least.

Interestingly enough, the plants that I didn't trim, are long straggly and spindly looking and aren't going to produce much in the way of buds, in fact, I am thinking about just removing them, focus on this last plant for a few weeks. I got 4 clones already rooted and waiting, from the plant I've been trimming. So, I am all ready to start budding a new crop.

Harvest will be MUCH easier now at least! hahahahha

 

[Carl Carlson]

Yes, the plant slows down for 2-3 days.... I figure it's a combination of factors.

Decreased transpiration after the removal of leaves + plant shifting gears hormonally as explained by delta9.

 

[delta9nxs]

carl, decreased transpiration for sure!

you know how i've got all plants fed from the control bucket using the float valve?

with 9 large plants in flower i was getting 100-104 drips per minute at mid photoperiod.

with 7 of the 9 defoliated i get 48-50 drips per minute.

yet the buds are growing like crazy.

 

[Surrender]

This should mean a great deal less work for the dehumidifiers as well!

 

[Think Green]

Cant believe there's been 40k views on this thread! Way to go k33ftr33z, nice thread!

 

[k33ftr33z]

Thanks. I stripped them equal to what they are in the pic about 2 weeks ago they came back fast and had to trim again which is what the pic is of, the 2nd trim. I just want to make sure i'm trimming it correctly.

Does it matter if you trim where the leaf connects to the stalk or branch or at the base of the leaf and leave that short little stem there? Or does it even matter?

I nip off wherever I can reach, Sometimes blindly by feel. The unit is 5' wide. I just work as fast as possible without worry for any details. Most remaining stubs dry out and fall off before harvest.

After a thorough deleafing it's time for bending out radially to expose the center secondary branching. If still have the main leader or the side branches are getting woody, they can still be bent with care and force. I crush, literally crush the stem between the thumb and side of the index finger. It sometimes requires as much force as you can muster on maturing stems. It must be crushed in order to train without breaking it. After crushing they can be twisted like rope, this strengthens the stem just as twisting rope is the reason miles of it stay together. Once crushed and twisted it can be trained any way you want without extending strings every which way. A net comes in handy as branches can then be laid down on the net after a proper bend n' twist. Some see a tighter and more hardware net as the appliance to force this kind of spreading, but I find a minimal net of as few strings as possible as preferable and far more functional to support the fully deconstructed and rearranged framework of stems.

 

[k33ftr33z]

Yes, the plant slows down for 2-3 days.... I figure it's a combination of factors.

Decreased transpiration after the removal of leaves + plant shifting gears hormonally as explained by delta9.

Never seen any slowdown on healthy plants. Most who are trying this are reporting a fresh canopy in 5 days. A ten day defoliation/refoliation cycle seems to offer the best that both leaves, and light exposure after removal, have to benefit the plant.

 

[k33ftr33z]

carl, decreased transpiration for sure!

you know how i've got all plants fed from the control bucket using the float valve?

with 9 large plants in flower i was getting 100-104 drips per minute at mid photoperiod.

with 7 of the 9 defoliated i get 48-50 drips per minute.

yet the buds are growing like crazy.

That is an interesting way of observing water uptake in real time. I'll have to try that. I've observed the same phenomenon monitoring the level of the tank that feeds the float valves.

 

[k33ftr33z]

found a picture of my last grow at day 34. Strains,Light,soil,ferts are all the same as the current grow. You can see a huge diff in bud development. Im not sure but after looking at the Apollolicious i think it could be close to finished at day 38. Its close for sure.

Last grow day 34


current grow day 36

I think this qualifies for the best side by side we have seen that validates the technique. You can bet that under all that leaf in the first pic there are a lot fewer and lesser-developed buds. Can't wait to read the yield comparison report. Very impressive at 36 days. I gotta seek out that strain.

 

[k33ftr33z]

dtp5150 wrote: the plant doesnt need leaves because it doesnt need to store nutrients.

Thats exactly what I've been thinking as well. Obviously it needs SOME leaves for proper photosynthesis to occur.

Likewise. I'm not sure where this store/release nutrient theory comes from. Leaves have many functions but are not absolutely necessary for our strategy. They provide shade to the surrounding ground in natural settings. This prevents transpiration from the earth for survival. It shades out every other competing vegetation also for survival. The leaves fuel rapid vertical growth and branching which maximizes the coverage of the leaf canopy. All of these qualities are not necessary and even counter-productive to indoor controlled cultivation. Luckily the plants have been shown to tolerate and even thrive without those shady old leaves. In fact it seems evident that it enhances bud production which, I believe, is exactly what we are trying to accomplish.

 

[Phedrosbenny]

plants

plants

Here is what I have flowering right now.Just two plants.About 25 days into flower.One is a Nirvana white rhino and the other is a safari mix from Mandala.

The first two are the same plant.The Safari mix.It has been topped and I am giving this technique a go to hopefully increase yield and I think maybe resin production.

The last one is the white rhino.It was grown more or less naturally.What I meen by that is that there was not alot of trimming did early on.Some,because I allways trim them up a little.It just wasnt topped.I have taken all the bigger leaves though.

So do you think that these two will benefit from leaf removal?

Sorry about the not so good pics.Had to use my phone because I cant find my camera right now.

 

[HybridHydro]

I like the way you got your plants Phedrosbunny, they look like each part of the plant gets light and aren't blocked by lots of leaf and "other plant parts". I always try for that but my grow always gets cramped cause i let them go to long in veg.. I like having one big giant cola vs lots of little ones, I know that lots of little ones might mean more yield, but I like to see the potentials.

It looks to me that each part of your plant gets light, so I personally wouldn't trim them back. Others may have a different opinion than I though.

 

[dtp5150]

I think a lot of the bud growth has to do with the plant diverting energy to create huge stems and buds and roots instead of maintaining and growing fan leaves...there are only so much sugars available...

The only problem is the amount of work involved heh...nothing good is easy they say....

For example also I cut off some leaves that were previously damaged from spider mites and the plants LOVED that!! it no longer had to think twice about those damaged leaves and the other growth just took off! probably had something to do with no more bites too ;D

 

[delta9nxs]

Originally posted by k33ftr33z
“That is an interesting way of observing water uptake in real time. I'll have to try that. I've observed the same phenomenon monitoring the level of the tank that feeds the float valves.”

An obvious use of it as a measuring tool is for a relative check of lamp efficiency. Check new bulbs and then periodically check for rate of roll off. At some point in the curve there should be a pronounced downturn.

Originally posted by k33ftr33z
“I'm not sure where this store/release nutrient theory comes from.”

I mentioned it earlier in the thread but I picked it up from multiple sources.
These excerpts from http://www.sidthomas.net/SenEssence/index.htm

“Plants are ruthless recyclers.* They dismantle and rebuild as they grow.* The germinating seed is stripped of its contents which are used for making roots and shoots.* Materials salvaged from leaves support the growth of flowers and seeds.”
“Discarding leaves and other modules is only sustainable if there is an efficient way of recovering and reallocating nutrients, such as nitrogen or phosphorus, that could be in limited supply.”
“This is where the recycling function of senescence comes in.* You can read more about this in H Thomas, V O Sadras (2001) The capture and gratuitous disposal of resources by plants. Functional Ecology 15: 3-12*“

Mr. Thomas is talking about uncultivated outdoor plants here. Because we continue fertilization indoors, we don't need the leaves as much. We just see the benefits of more light.
At this point I believe my defoliated plants are maturing faster, not slower as some have suggested. I've been going 9 weeks and now i've got one at 8 weeks that looks completely finished. And, I think the trich count is up.

d9

 

[HybridHydro]

32 days in, I've never seen buds this big in any of my grows at 32 days.. I will take and post more pictures next week, 7 days after I trimmed, so we can compare how "slow" its going. I can promise that the results will be quite dramatic. (unless something extremely stupid happens.) This thing is starting to pop buds out of the sides of the buds on the top cola and its grown to about the size of a softball, but i can still see through it just a little tiny bit. i am thinking in another 30 days this things going to be huge, unless it suddenly stops growing, but that doesn't look like its going to happen anytime soon, yet.

I've determined that all our theories are wrong, that the reason they are producing better is because of the added co2 content from spending so much time with them. LOL!

 

[TexasToker]

I have not totally followed this thread, but I would like to add that after you do this; I have found that adding molasses (or any carb/glucose) to your next feeding seems to shorten the delay from the initial pruning that some seem to be 'off'd' by.

I have tried many combos and for me it seems that the best results...for me, is defoliating at ~20 days.

There are exceptions. For instance, The Church from GHS needed about 2-3 weeks longer than my sour-saver or OG Kush for it to 'look right'. A prime example of how different strains need different pruning. It obviously has to do with flowering time of the strain, but I just wanted to make sure that people realize that there is not a set time to do this.

Experience in this technique is a big factor.

 

[dobo]

Awesome thread K33fTr33z, I'm loving your experiment!
I've got my own theory on when the best time to start removing foliage and I think it's around the 2-4 week mark in flower. I think the fan leaves are no problem at all from veg to the 3-4 week stage, its only until the fan leaves start getting dense and blocking the light from penetrating the lower budsites. I reckon at this stage removing the fan leaves is beneficial, the reason I think it's beneficial is that underneath the fan leaves you have a series of the lower bud leaves which have a greater surface area than the single fan leaf you removed, thus if all these lower leaves are photosynthesising then your plant is creating more energy for the budsites (which is the sink of the majority of a plants nutrients)

I think people who have high temps shouldn't remove the fan leaves as they are what a plant uses to transpire (cool down) removing the leaves in a hot enviroment I think would create a loss of yield.


I'm growing in soil and i'm at week 5 flower now, i'm going to remove 75% of the fan leaves off one of my plants over a period of time, i'll post the results when harvest is complete. Both plants are similar size. I want to see if the myth is true about not removing the leaves during flower.

Here is the plants i'll be training, the front right one i've already started to remove fan leaves from (not in this pic tho!), the front left ill leave untouched to provide a side by side comparision, should give those people who are nervous to remove folliage an idea of what can happen good or bad