Defoliation: Hi-Yield Technique?

[wordtree]

To my understanding the point of lollipopping is to focus on main cola growth by removing all lower branches which would have 'popcorn' buds. Defoliation is a technique to increase the light penetration to those lower buds by removing leaves so that they aren't 'popcorn'.

Also, I'm curious as to why you would supercrop on a lollipopped plant? Isn't the point of supercropping to slow main stem growth to allow the lower budsites to push up and even out the canopy? If there's only one main cola then what would the point of such an exercise be?

Also, I want to clarify, I'm not saying you are wrong, in fact it might be that my understanding of these things is wrong. I'm just trying to clarify what you're saying so I can understand.

in my opinion, it is the sequence that matters most. Given enough veg time, the process should logically go as follows:

WEEK ONE-TWO
1. Decide whether or not you are topping your plant
1a. If you are topping, supercropping and lollipop teks will still help raise yields
1b. LST should be employed if not topping
2. Pinch/supercrop all main stems that will bear fruit

WEEK TWO-THREE+
1. Canopy should be evened out and more budsites present at this point as a result of topping/training.
2. Veg longer as needed and lollipop all branches that will bear fruit...flip to flower within a couple of days.
2a. ARGUABLE- remove popcorn that forms after this point in time (early flower)

thus, supercropping employed PRIOR to lollipopping can work in your favor and increase yields by promoting larger budsets by means of concentration.

PS- supercropping/pinching herbaceous plants such as cannabis to the point where the secondary vascular tissue inside the stem is damaged....upon subsequent cellular regeneration, the tissue that was pinched will have effectively doubled its capacity to transport water and nutrients as well as being more structurally fortified.

 

[HankScorpio]

cool thread. Nice to see unconventional techniques being used.

 

[angel4us]

defoliation supercropping

defoliation supercropping

would not even consider growing any plant that wasn't supercropped under any circumstances. period . ive seen the promise land and it was supercropped!!!!!!!!!!

 

[twrex]

PS- supercropping/pinching herbaceous plants such as cannabis to the point where the secondary vascular tissue inside the stem is damaged....upon subsequent cellular regeneration, the tissue that was pinched will have effectively doubled its capacity to transport water and nutrients as well as being more structurally fortified.

Ah... I knew that it strengthened the stems and allowed more, I didn't realize it added THAT much, I always understood it more to be a method of evening the canopy and that any added vascular improvements from healing were just a slight bonus.

 

[ShroomDr]

light is absorbed by dark colors. unless everything is white... its not gonna " bounce " far.

Light still bounces off of dark colors, that is why your eyes can see them. Your eyes are photo-receptors. If youre not staring at the sun, a lightbulb, or a display, you are looking at light that has bounced off of something.

Yes, i am aware of the Inverse square law.

Light bounces, if light didnt 'bounce far' you wouldn't be able to see objects from a distance. As light travels it loses intensity, so obviously after it bounces it has lost intensity.

White walls are great (for old cars), I like ultraflect.

 

[dachieftan]

originally posed by wordtree:

in my opinion, it is the sequence that matters most. Given enough veg time, the process should logically go as follows:

WEEK ONE-TWO
1. Decide whether or not you are topping your plant
1a. If you are topping, supercropping and lollipop teks will still help raise yields
1b. LST should be employed if not topping
2. Pinch/supercrop all main stems that will bear fruit

WEEK TWO-THREE+
1. Canopy should be evened out and more budsites present at this point as a result of topping/training.
2. Veg longer as needed and lollipop all branches that will bear fruit...flip to flower within a couple of days.
2a. ARGUABLE- remove popcorn that forms after this point in time (early flower)

thus, supercropping employed PRIOR to lollipopping can work in your favor and increase yields by promoting larger budsets by means of concentration.

PS- supercropping/pinching herbaceous plants such as cannabis to the point where the secondary vascular tissue inside the stem is damaged....upon subsequent cellular regeneration, the tissue that was pinched will have effectively doubled its capacity to transport water and nutrients as well as being more structurally fortified.

I doubt anybody has any experience in this process but what are you opinions on this process?:
Bear in mind this is for an organic soil grow under a 600w HPS. I'm trying to grow short bushes with an even canopy. What are your thoughts on this process?
1. In the second week of veg use the top/FIM method
2. In the 4th week of veg pick off clones while lollipoping and defoliating simultaneously by using the huge fan leaves for clones towards the top and bottom. (I have been told ppl have better experience rooting cuts from the more established bottom of the plant but I have read that the newer cuts towards the top have unlimited growth potential.What do you think works best?)
3. Wait a couple of weeks until week 6 before transplanting and put into flower
4. within the first couple of weeks of flower (i.e. the stretching period) supercrop the plant

Does it really matter if you supercrop after you lollipop?
I like to lollipop about a foot or less in veg and when I transplant to a bigger pot for flower, I will burry the lollipopped portion under the soil as to have a shorter plant with greater structural integrity. Also, the light will better penetrate the distance to those bottom branches is my thinking and the stretching in flower will compensate for the lollipoped portion. I spend about a month in veg now but I think implementing all these training techniques will set me back to about 6 weeks in veg. I'm trying to decipher if the juice is worth the squeeze. I suppose I could always use silica blast to give the plant a stronger structure but I still have a tall plant if I don't lollipop/burry.

I figure using methods that stimulate bud growth on the bottom branches such as supercrop, topping, and this Defoliation technique could possible counter the plant from trying to commit to one main cola. What do yall think of that?

 

[superbolan]

I like my popcorn on the bottom those are my samplers

 

[_Dude]

In short, Same yield, less work.

Less efficiency, too. Even if you discount watts (which makes sense if you're vegging with Flouros, not HIDs), there's still the space issue.

For example, my setup. It doesn't matter if I'm vegging under HIDs or Flouros, I'm still using space for vegging that I could be using for flowering. Actually it does matter, since HIDs kick flouro ass, but you know what I mean.

SOG simply uses space (or space and watts) more efficiently. The law didn't randomly decide one day to limit plant counts. They did it to fuck mersh growers.

 

[greenwithenvy]

Before and after

Before and after

Before



After

 

[k33ftr33z]

originally posed by wordtree:

I doubt anybody has any experience in this process but one are you opinions on this process?:
Bear in mind this is for an organic soil grow under a 600w HPS. I'm trying to grow short bushes with an even canopy. What are your thoughts on this process?
1. In the second week of veg use the top/FIM method
2. In the 4th week of veg pick off clones while lollipoping and defoliating simultaneously by using the huge fan leaves for clones towards the top and bottom. (I have been told ppl have better experience rooting cuts from the more established bottom of the plant but I have read that the newer cuts towards the top have unlimited growth potential.What do you think works best?)
3. Wait a couple of weeks until week 6 before transplanting and put into flower
4. within the first couple of weeks of flower (i.e. the stretching period) supercrop the plant

Does it really matter if you supercrop after you lollipop?

The point of lollipopping is to grow ONLY the very top buds. Taken to extreme some guys grow 4-6' plants with only one cola held up by a bamboo stake all crowded together. While this method yields you ONLY nice fat primary colas, the effort to get there is not one I'll undertake. This may get back to a myth that is simply a misinterpretation. Early cannabis studies and manuals always say that the most potent part of the plant are "the flowering tops". This drives some growers to assume that lower and mid buds are simply never desirable or less potent. A ridiculous method and assumption but whatever they like to do. I find removing producing growth in bud or even veg to be counter productive. Better to preserve all producing growth and do whatever it takes through training to get the light to those sites. I personally like the lowest nugs for their more delicate structure and flavor. Big fat top colas, while impressive and fun to grow are actually an inefficient package of usable material. They tend to be incredibly dense and wrapped around a weighty useless log. the density causes potential waste for the meager conservative smoker and the lumber is worthless. Don't get me wrong, My goal is always size and density for all nugs but I prefer a balanced yield from the whole plant.

If you are lollipopping in veg you are dedicating too much time to veg. Defoliating yes, lollipopping no.

 

[TexasToker]

Defoliating yes, lollipopping no.

 

[jrosek]

Light still bounces off of dark colors, that is why your eyes can see them. Your eyes are photo-receptors. If youre not staring at the sun, a lightbulb, or a display, you are looking at light that has bounced off of something.

Yes, i am aware of the Inverse square law.

Light bounces, if light didnt 'bounce far' you wouldn't be able to see objects from a distance. As light travels it loses intensity, so obviously after it bounces it has lost intensity.

White walls are great (for old cars), I like ultraflect.

A link to lowes for reflectix... much better deal than the sunleaves material.
http://www.lowes.com/pd_13358-56291-BP48025_0_?productId=3011906&Ntt=reflectix&Ntk=i_products&pl=1&currentURL=/pl__0__s?newSearch=true$Ntt=reflectix$y=0$x=0

 

[k33ftr33z]

originally posed by wordtree:

I doubt anybody has any experience in this process but what are you opinions on this process?:
Bear in mind this is for an organic soil grow under a 600w HPS. I'm trying to grow short bushes with an even canopy. What are your thoughts on this process?
1. In the second week of veg use the top/FIM method
2. In the 4th week of veg pick off clones while lollipoping and defoliating simultaneously by using the huge fan leaves for clones towards the top and bottom. (I have been told ppl have better experience rooting cuts from the more established bottom of the plant but I have read that the newer cuts towards the top have unlimited growth potential.What do you think works best?)
3. Wait a couple of weeks until week 6 before transplanting and put into flower
4. within the first couple of weeks of flower (i.e. the stretching period) supercrop the plant

Does it really matter if you supercrop after you lollipop?
I like to lollipop about a foot or less in veg and when I transplant to a bigger pot for flower, I will burry the lollipopped portion under the soil as to have a shorter plant with greater structural integrity. Also, the light will better penetrate the distance to those bottom branches is my thinking and the stretching in flower will compensate for the lollipoped portion. I spend about a month in veg now but I think implementing all these training techniques will set me back to about 6 weeks in veg. I'm trying to decipher if the juice is worth the squeeze. I suppose I could always use silica blast to give the plant a stronger structure but I still have a tall plant if I don't lollipop/burry.

I figure using methods that stimulate bud growth on the bottom branches such as supercrop, topping, and this Defoliation technique could possible counter the plant from trying to commit to one main cola. What do yall think of that?

Forgot to address the whole of your question.

1. Yes top at the second week and also remove the leaves. I prefer to not focus on 2nd week or 3rd or whatever. It is all relative to size and structure. I'm not schedule-driven in veg.

Bud is on a schedule, but I manage veg to run as a roughly 50% surplus production. That way the necessary extra veg time is built in. SOGgers fuss over veg time but the veg space is dedicated 24/7/365 at a low-wattage and minimal cubic footage. So that being the case, veg time is of no consequence in the regular production.

2. Cloning from your 4th weeks is fine and wherever you take them is up to you. You don't need many because you are producing larger shrubs.

3. Sounds about right. Hydro would be faster.

4. During those 6 weeks defoliate. I don't know the details of all these acronym techniques but just defoliate and train. I only top the main leader at the previous mentioned 2weeks or so. Sometimes not, if a clone is adequately branchy. Again, I am not in favor of lollipopping. That's someone else's technique. I preserve all growth and train to accomodate it. If things are out of hand with this much training, the plants are too large for the allotted space and that should be adjusted. Defoliation minimizes stretching while maintaining horizontal training strategy.

I never top any branch after transfer to bud. That is your production. They get plenty branchy as they grow by defoliating and training. And again, No lollipopping. If you want encouragement to lollipop you are in the wrong thread. Don't mean to sound insistent just trying to clarify.

 

[k33ftr33z]

Light still bounces off of dark colors, that is why your eyes can see them. Your eyes are photo-receptors. If youre not staring at the sun, a lightbulb, or a display, you are looking at light that has bounced off of something.

Yes, i am aware of the Inverse square law.

Light bounces, if light didnt 'bounce far' you wouldn't be able to see objects from a distance. As light travels it loses intensity, so obviously after it bounces it has lost intensity.

White walls are great (for old cars), I like ultraflect.

Light management. Another thread perhaps. I prefer reflective over white, though the unit has glossy white bottom and mylar board all around. People will fuss over which is better all the while never taking the time to think about where they are losing the most light. That is where compartment design is important.

 

[dachieftan]

Forgot to address the whole of your question.

1. Yes top at the second week and also remove the leaves. I prefer to not focus on 2nd week or 3rd or whatever. It is all relative to size and structure. I'm not schedule-driven in veg.

Bud is on a schedule, but I manage veg to run as a roughly 50% surplus production. That way the necessary extra veg time is built in. SOGgers fuss over veg time but the veg space is dedicated 24/7/365 at a low-wattage and minimal cubic footage. So that being the case, veg time is of no consequence in the regular production.

2. Cloning from your 4th weeks is fine and wherever you take them is up to you. You don't need many because you are producing larger shrubs.

3. Sounds about right. Hydro would be faster.

4. During those 6 weeks defoliate. I don't know the details of all these acronym techniques but just defoliate and train. I only top the main leader at the previous mentioned 2weeks or so. Sometimes not, if a clone is adequately branchy. Again, I am not in favor of lollipopping. That's someone else's technique. I preserve all growth and train to accomodate it. If things are out of hand with this much training, the plants are too large for the allotted space and that should be adjusted. Defoliation minimizes stretching while maintaining horizontal training strategy.

I never top any branch after transfer to bud. That is your production. They get plenty branchy as they grow by defoliating and training. And again, No lollipopping. If you want encouragement to lollipop you are in the wrong thread. Don't mean to sound insistent just trying to clarify.

thanks k33f

You convinced me to avoid lollipoping. However, I will take cuts of the bottom branches anyway to make clones b/c I have been told those are easier to root.

 

[synax]

k33ftr33z - hey buddy - someone recommended I take a look at this thread - I'm about 10pages in and curious if I'm too late in the flowering cycle to trim the hell out of them - I'm at 29days 12/12 and have been showing buds for about 20days. I was thinking of maybe trying this on one or two of the plants as my tent is just jam packed....

 

[Kingsley Zissou]

While I won't be able to advise on whether it's too late or not, I can tell you, that if you do decide to take the plunge, that shit is going to take a while. Bring a radio, some sun glasses, and a bevy.

 

[Anti]

k33ftr33z - hey buddy - someone recommended I take a look at this thread - I'm about 10pages in and curious if I'm too late in the flowering cycle to trim the hell out of them - I'm at 29days 12/12 and have been showing buds for about 20days. I was thinking of maybe trying this on one or two of the plants as my tent is just jam packed....

Keef says that you should not just randomly decide one day to defoliate your plant as the shock may have unintended consequences.

He recommends over and over in the thread that you start your defoliation process early in veg and do it as part of a continual process so that the plant can acclimate to the process.

If you still want to try it, try it on one plant. Maybe it'll work out for you.

 

[k33ftr33z]

thanks k33f

You convinced me to avoid lollipoping. However, I will take cuts of the bottom branches anyway to make clones b/c I have been told those are easier to root.

That's true, in fact. The branches tend to be woodier than fleshy and may sustain the rooting period a little better depending on your method. Besides you don't want to go topping away at your ready-for-bud candidates.

 

[k33ftr33z]

k33ftr33z - hey buddy - someone recommended I take a look at this thread - I'm about 10pages in and curious if I'm too late in the flowering cycle to trim the hell out of them - I'm at 29days 12/12 and have been showing buds for about 20days. I was thinking of maybe trying this on one or two of the plants as my tent is just jam packed....

Yes, do it moderately at first and a little more daily. If you can bend or spread gently those branches it'lll also help. Inter weave the branches as you spread. No need to tie them anywhere, just some gentle easing down to less then so vertical. A net would help support a regimine of bending to get things a little more horizontal. Spread them out radially from their respective centers and especially the few that are all up in the lamps face. They're hogging the action.

As the previous poster mentioned, this is not a jump-into-at-any-stage technique. Your plants look healthy but still go conservative. The best thing to do is to focus on your next cycle and be preparing those girls by defoliating them now in veg and spreading them out. Next round also consider the previously mentioned net.