Cannabis Workers Unionize

[Hydrosun]

Hydrosun: Explain how you came to the conclusion that I'm advocating anything. I am just telling Senior Buzz that his idea about councils of stakeholders creating locally viable business models to compete in the new marketplace is sound, but in the world we live in, only playing big money politics is going to get you a seat at the table.

You really should work on context a bit more before posting. Not every statement in a discussion is taking a position that you have to jump up on a soapbox to refute with slogans.

I can tell you feel very strongly, but you're regularly missing the points people are trying to make. Deep breaths, brother.

I thought you were advocating because you said. Something to the effect of "That is a good idea." "it is called (some noun I can't remember)." "After that is done it is time to lobby."

If I misread the post I am sorry, but I still hold to the point: I am a free born man with complete dominion over my body and property; lobbying anyone is an abdication of my rights and presupposes some ISM or groups of elites has the power to dispose of my body or labor.

I'm not trying to twist anyone's ideas. I do respect everyones right to an opinion however I can not respect anyone who claims the right to regulate / control / enslave their neighbor.

I'm taking my deep breaths, I hope ICmagers will at least think about the moral implications of telling their neighbor what they may or may not do on their own property.

 

[Skip]

Fascism is almost IDENTICAL to collectivism / socialism. Under all three of these systems the means of production are controlled by ELITES, with a HUGE state component for defining who is ELITE.

If you think one group of elites is better than another group, we are in a lot more trouble than I thought.

Have you ever LIVED in a real socialist country? I have.

Have you ever been a part of a REAL (non-cannabis related) Collective? I have.

Unless you have done these things, you don't know what you're talking about.

I know for a fact that in neither case were there "elites" running things. The workers were running things.

Unless you've lived and worked in these kinds of settings you can believe all the B.S. propaganda being spewed on American TV and in books like Atlas Shrugged, but you haven't been out in REAL LIFE and seen the difference Socialism makes, and Collectives can bring.

Since the 60s I've been part of the "power to the people" movement, and never stopped. Ayn Rand is all about POWER TO THE ELITE, so you've got everything ass-backwards, just like Glen Beck.

Unions are one of the BEST checks against the abuse of Corporate Power, since our gov't only enables Corporations to abuse their power via backroom deals and lobbying.

There is NO PLACE in AMERICA's future for Economic Libertarianism if our country is to survive the likes of the Gulf Oil Spill and Drill baby Drill. We are now suffering the consequences of Reaganism & Bushism's promotion of laisse-faire capitalism. And the entire world is suffering as a result.

But let's get back on topic as we don't allow political discussion beyond cannabis.

 

[Hydrosun]

Have you ever LIVED in a real socialist country? I have.

Have you ever been a part of a REAL Collective? I have.

Unless you have done these things, you don't know what you're talking about.

I know for a fact that in neither case were there "elites" running things. The workers were running things.

Unless you've lived and worked in these kinds of settings you can believe all the B.S. propaganda being spewed on American TV and in books like Atlas Shrugged, but you haven't been out in REAL LIFE and seen the difference Socialism makes, and Collectives can bring.

Since the 60s I've been part of the "power to the people" movement, and never stopped. Ayn Rand is all about POWER TO THE ELITE, so you've got everything ass-backwards, just like Glen Beck.

Unions are one of the BEST checks against the abuse of Corporate Power, since our gov't only enables Corporations to abuse their power via backroom deals and lobbying.

Really the socialist country wasn't run by the Elites? They replaced the government every few years with unknown 22 year old blue collar workers?

If this socialist country was such bliss on Earth, why aren't you still there today?

Ayn Rand is all about power to the individual. If you've taken the time to read the 1000+ page Atlas Shrugged (written over 50 years ago), I am very interested in your thoughts on how it is similar to modern day TV propaganda.

It is very dangerous to set the qualification on free human's thoughts. Just because I haven't lived on a Kibbutz I am not qualified to speak on collectivism? And unless I lived under socialist rule I can't comment on that form of government?

I've really got a feeling that you have not read Ayn Rand because she comes right out and states that the smallest minority in the world is the individual. She was and I am an individualist. I sanction no group of elites to make decisions for me.

Self-Reliant Individuals are the best check against government, union, and employer abuses.

I believe in freedom. I welcome your freedom to organize, but I acknowledge all humans rights to run their garden as they see fit. If they chose to hire union employees that is their business, but if they grow weed with the help of non-union workers that too is within their rights.

Also not nice to say "I haven't been out in the real world." You don't know me. You don't know how many stamps are in my passport and you don't know for how many decades I have used that passport. And after I said I don't watch or listen to Glen Beck you still chose to bring up his name and paint me with it, pretty uncool. I may have everything wrong, but at least you could say I was AFU like Ayn Rand.

So I will refrain from name calling and I wish you would too.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

thanks for calling for a peace

this is an exercise in life

 

[LolaGal]

I agree with Skip. I just can't read Hydro's posts if he is not gonna make sense. rofl.

I have starved and gone without shoes during Union strikes when I was a little girl. Without a Union, my dad would have been shoveling coal by hand in unsafe coal mine that would fall down on his head or blow up with gas, because the Coal Company don't care about nothing but profits. Unions kept my Dad Safe at work and kept thousands from horrible working conditons.

Hydrosun is a rich , Harvard lawyer type Skip. He thinks if he keeps talking loud enough and long enough, he will win any arguement. He has no idea how poor people live or work. He probably thinks George Bush Jr. was a good president too.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

I see, and accept, both sides of the issue

frankly, i enjoy Hydrosun's posts

if not only by his political position

so we can now do a fair comparison

between Richard Lee's Unionized shop

and the First Northern California Grower-Owned Collective

 

[Hydrosun]

I agree with Skip. I just can't read Hydro's posts if he is not gonna make sense. rofl.

I have starved and gone without shoes during Union strikes when I was a little girl. Without a Union, my dad would have been shoveling coal by hand in unsafe coal mine that would fall down on his head or blow up with gas, because the Coal Company don't care about nothing but profits. Unions kept my Dad Safe at work and kept thousands from horrible working conditons.

Hydrosun is a rich , Harvard lawyer type Skip. He thinks if he keeps talking loud enough and long enough, he will win any arguement. He has no idea how poor people live or work. He probably thinks George Bush Jr. was a good president too.

Getting quite personal aren't you Coal Miner's Daughter.

So let me get this straight, intellect and logic matter not the correct answer to this very personal business contract between two free actors, the correct answer is based upon the respective wealth of the contractors?

Lola, I am rich in the "Napolian Hill, Think and Grow Rich" sense of the word. You'll be disappointed to know that all of my education was in public state subsidized institutions.

I guess by Skip's standard I am qualified to speak on state subsidized education because I participated in it for many years of my life.

You also have no idea what I know or don't know. Where my great uncles and grandfather KY coal miners? If they were do I get to be right? If they weren't are you right?

So you may give credit to unions for helping your family out to a great degree, but does that give you the right to force me to hire on your terms, or am I still free to do as I please?

I have no comment on GWB see my discussion on Glen Beck above, but I do find it hugly ironic that these safe union coal mines you love are falling apart and killing people this year, and funnier still government corruption is being sighted as a contributing factor.

Yep unions and paid off gvt officials are spilling coal miner's blood this year; let's put them in charge of airport security and call it a day.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

I'll fess up and say that I grew up with Unions
my brothers father uncles cousins all belonged to unions
and I even had friends whose fathers were
union officials (power), and lobbyists
(can you say manicured and polished)

 

[LolaGal]

Well, I was born a coal miner's daughter,
In a cabin, on a hill in Butcher Holler,
We were poor, but we had love,
That's the one thing my daddy made sure of,
He shoveled coal to make a poor man's dollar.

My daddy worked all night in the Van Lear Coal Mines,
All day long in a field a-hoein' corn,
Mommy rocked the babies at night,
and read The Bible by the coal-oil light,
And everything would start all over come break of mornin'.

Daddy loved and raised 8 kids on a miner's pay,
Mommy scrubbed our clothes on a washboard every day,
Why, I seen her fingers bleed, to complain, there was no need,
She'd smile in mommy's understanding way.

In the summertime we didn't have shoes to wear,
But in the wintertime, we'd all get a brand new pair,
From a mail-order catalog, money made from sellin' a hog,
Daddy always managed to get the money somewhere.

Yeah, I'm proud to be a coal miner's daughter,
I remember well the well where I drew water,
The work we done was hard, at night we'd sleep 'cause we were tired,
I never thought of ever leavin' Butcher Holler.

Well, a lot of things have changed since way back then,
And it's so good to be back home again,
Not much left but the floor, nothin' lives here anymore,
'Cept the memories of a coal miner's daughter.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

Well, I was born a coal miner's daughter,

LG, you are from:

West Virginia
Pennsylvania
?

 

[SeniorBuzz]

The Most Corrupt States - Galleries - The Daily Beast http://bit.ly/9PSjM4

 

[Skip]

Hydrosun, I've met a LOT of Americans with LOTS of stamps in their passports. All of them who think like you were either businessmen or military. None of them ever lived overseas except at military bases. They did not live like the locals. Americans rarely go overseas and live the lives of foreigners. They prefer either first class hotels or base living. (which did you do?)

So passport stamps are meaningless to me, unless you lived like and WITH the locals for years. Otherwise you were just a tourist or an Imperialist soldier with innocent blood on ones hands. And in such cases, one can never know what life is really like in those places, other than what has been imposed by the American Military/Industrial complex. And in that situation one's concepts/biases/prejudices against foreigners and their politics are just reinforced instead of enlightened.

Now do we want to keep going with this or can we end it...?

 

[Hydrosun]

Hydrosun, I've met a LOT of Americans with LOTS of stamps in their passports. All of them who think like you were either businessmen or military. None of them ever lived overseas except at military bases. They did not live like the locals. Americans rarely go overseas and live the lives of foreigners. They prefer either first class hotels or base living. (which did you do?)

So passport stamps are meaningless to me, unless you lived like and WITH the locals for years. Otherwise you were just a tourist or an Imperialist soldier with innocent blood on ones hands. And in such cases, one can never know what life is really like in those places, other than what has been imposed by the American Military/Industrial complex. And in that situation one's concepts/biases/prejudices against foreigners and their politics are just reinforced instead of enlightened.

Now do we want to keep going with this or can we end it...?

I prefer to continue and explore this subject.

You didn't tell me what socialist utopia you lived in and how the workers ran the state and not the elites. You made an argument that you lived in such a good and wholesome place but not any more. I would like to know about a positive real world example, because as you pointed out the common conception is that NO communist or socialist state improved the average standard of living. So where were you living?

I've never lived on post 5star would be great but a backpack and hostel get the job done.

I don't think one needs do or prove anything before their thoughts can be listened to. Real world experience is great, but we are all born free with an amazing brain.

This is a thread about unionization in a cannabis context. Well I run a few cannabis trees and I do it with the help of great people. This discussion is not esoteric to me. ICmag members are actively commenting on controls and regulations of cannabis gardens, we should defiantly keep this discussion going.

I respectfully disagree with any restrictions on anyone's garden, but let's talk it out.

 

[komrade komura]

I for one am very happy that the workers have formed a union. Provides the opportunity for a better balance of power in a normally unbalanced negotiation.

Lola....dat shit was funny...coal miner's daughter....hahaha. Kinda sad though...but it did make me listen to John Prine's 'Paradise'...can't get any closer to country music than that or I spontaneously combust.

The big business storm is approaching the cannabis fields. The anarchro-libertarian lifestyle is threatened.

Make sure you are on the right side of the barricades komrades.

Support BOG pharma, not big-pharma!

 

[LolaGal]

I for one am very happy that the workers have formed a union. Provides the opportunity for a better balance of power in a normally unbalanced negotiation.

Lola....dat shit was funny...coal miner's daughter....hahaha. Kinda sad though...but it did make me listen to John Prine's 'Paradise'...can't get any closer to country music than that or I spontaneously combust.

The big business storm is approaching the cannabis fields. The anarchro-libertarian lifestyle is threatened.

Make sure you are on the right side of the barricades komrades.

Support BOG pharma, not big-pharma!

"Oh Daddy why don't you take me back to Muhlenberg county,
down by the green river, where Paradise lays.
Well, I'm sorry my son, but your're to late in asking,
Mr. Peabody's coal train done hauled it away."

 

[THINKING GREEN]

I am all for giving credit where credit is due. Richard Lee has done as much for the MMJ cause as anybody.

My criticism of him stems from the monopolistic practices of his busineses. You can lobby the GOF all you want to rewrite the bill, but its not going to change the fact that its the same guys who are pushing the local ordinances that limit the amount of dispensaries... then lo and behold, Harborside gets one of the three permits. Or TWO of the three. Let watch and see what happens in Chico. They own the lab that tests the herb. They have sway over the certification body that serves the industry...

Now... I will tell you that while I am officially undecided as to how I will vote, I am leaning toward a yes vote for the very reasons you support. Unless I am convinced that more people will be going to prison because of this bill it will get my vote on the basis that it will add to the momentum of true (alcohol style) legalization on a national level. MMJ spread from Cali to other states and so will recreational. Once i let go of certain attachments and just focus on my sense of justice, voting YES is the obvious answer. I do it begrudgingly, knowing that I give power to the forces of control at the top of this industry.

But nothing is a clean as we'd like it to be.

nomad it all comes down to money in the end. He is doing it for all the right reasons, but he is also going to see alot of the kickback in the ass end of all of this.

 

[SeniorBuzz]

nomad it all comes down to money in the end. He is doing it for all the right reasons, but he is also going to see alot of the kickback in the ass end of all of this.

he certainly knows which way

Obama's wind is blowing

there's a lot of very favorable, towards unions,
federal legislation happening

and the Stimulus money favored unions

now part of the political machine

however, don't, for one minute

underestimate the up and coming, Tea Party movement

they are on the side of the growers

when it comes to competing with mega-corporations

meaning there's a new lane opening for collectives

 

[nomaad]

I can respect a couple of things that the Tea Party represents, but their choice of Sarah Palin as spokes-model loses them any credibility that some of their ideas might gain.

 

[nomaad]

I should amend that last post:

The reason I use the word "spokes-model" is because, while I don't believe she is instrumental in crafting tea party doctrine or opinion, they do use her to attract a certain demographic to their cause...

I don't think I could work with anybody who is interested in swelling their ranks with the demographic that love em some Sarah Palin.

 

[LolaGal]

sarah palin... gag me with a beauty queen.. " I can see Russia from my house."