Is is me or do some growers in Cali actually not want pot legalised??

[Toyot4]

well under the new bill you will be doing that illegally and can still get arrested.

people assume legalization means "iu can grow a SHITLOAD!!"

nope...5x5 of your going to jail.

pretty much of all us will still be doing it illegally i guess...and at a much lower profit margin

remember, that 5x5 is the state implemented law, but counties/cities can regulate how they see fit. if this goes through i think the emerald triangle is not going to be fucking around with a 25sq ft law.

you will only know what will happen if you vote yes. the rest is all hypothetical.

 

[localhero]

how are you so sure?? they will still grow on fed land and just export it to the other states that are still illegal....if anything outdoor growing might explode for this reason...exportation is gonna be a goldmine from legal to illegal states..get your Uhaul on

im sure because if theres one thing the government is good at, its getting paid. illegal massive grows that cut into or damage potential tax revenues would be a number one target.

 

[Lazyman]

Just as I predicted, here is a proposal for a commercial grow on an industrial scale:

http://drugpolicycentral.com/bot/article/insidebayarea5541.htm

Taking the money out of the hands of many and putting it into the hands of the few:

Political Blotter: Legalized marijuana is a profitable venture, report says

BAY AREA NEWS GROUP

Posted: 05/24/2010 12:00:00 AM PDT

Updated: 05/24/2010 06:33:21 AM PDT

This is a sampling from Bay Area News Group's Political Blotter blog. Read more and post comments at www.ibabuzz.com/politics.

May 21

An economic-impact analysis prepared for a East Bay entrepreneur underscores one of the truths behind the "Tax Cannabis 2010" marijuana legalization measure on November's ballot: It could make some people very, very rich.

Jeff Wilcox of Lafayette, who sits on the ballot measure steering committee, in November formed AgraMed Inc., a nonprofit that commissioned this analysis from Bay Area consulting firm Brion & Associates.

According to an executive summary, the analysis examines AgraMed's proposal to redevelop a big parcel near Interstate 880 and the Embarcadero in Oakland - four buildings totaling 172,000 square feet on a 7.4-acre site - as an industrial-scale, 24-hour-a-day marijuana-growing facility as well as manufacturing space for grow lights and other equipment; a bakery for edible cannabis products; a job-training center; a research lab; and some office and retail space.

The grow operation would produce about 21,100 pounds of medical-grade cannabis per year, about 58 pounds per day on average, according to the analysis, with a wholesale price of about $2,800 per pound. And the analysis assumes the city would impose a "production tax" similar to the special tax Oakland already has put on

retail sales at the city's medical marijuana dispensaries.

Given various production and taxation scenarios, gross annual sales would range from $47 million to $71 million per year, with gross operating costs estimated at $31 million per year, the analysis says. That means Oakland could get $1.4 million to $2.1 million from a special production tax set at 3 percent of gross sales, not counting any other sales, utility, business-license and other taxes. Property taxes from the project are estimated at about $281,000 per year. Because the project is in the Coliseum redevelopment project area, these taxes would accrue to the Oakland Redevelopment Agency. The business could create about 371 union jobs, of which a little less than half would be in the grow facility and the rest in the other facets of the business. The average salary would be $53,700, plus benefits.

Assuming the project's total construction and development costs are $17.1 million, the analysis projects an added $8.6 million direct and indirect benefit to the county's economy.

Remember, all of this is for a nonprofit company producing marijuana under the state's existing medical-marijuana law. But what if voters approve Tax Cannabis 2010 in November, and Oakland subsequently exercises its new right to regulate and tax commercial production and sales of marijuana for recreational use?

Already lucrative, a facility like that could be transformed overnight into a gold mine.

"Hypothetically," Wilcox agreed this morning. "We looked at the numbers and I couldn't believe them. "... There's a big cash basis for this."

Wilcox, 49, said he was in commercial construction and real estate until his health forced him to retire. He said he's interested in this for a variety of reasons, including his belief that the current prohibition on nonmedical marijuana is a hypocritical, costly failure that has made it easier for his teenage daughter to get the drug than alcohol. Better regulation will keep it out of kids' hands; legalization will deprive criminals of a key money stream; commercial production will be a job-creating economic boost; and taxation will raise money for local governments, he said, echoing the Tax Cannabis 2010 talking points.

"Anyone can get rich growing a lot of pot, but can we do it legitimately?" he said, venturing that he can if voters approve the measure this November.

"I'm optimistic."

Given this week's less-than-promising poll numbers on legalization, however, I'd guess he might have to stick to medical cannabis for a while - a gold mine, too, but not as deep.

- Josh Richman

 

[kigy]

If we allow marijuana to become legalized, the terrorists have won...

 

[Toyot4]

If we allow marijuana to become legalized, the terrorists have won...

you can't say something like this without an explanation.

 

[Thundurkel]

yea and big tobacco buying up land and putting patents on "purple kush" etc....

yea yea people wont end up in jail, but maybe you shouldnt have been speeding down the freeway with a joint smokin and an ounce in the glovebox.

its not a good trade off in my opinion. give control to the government, big pharma, and industry heavyweights like Harborside and Richard Lee.

YOU KNOW HARBORSIDE AND RICHARD LEE ALREADY WANT A MONOPOLY IN OAKLAND...legalization aint about feel-good "lets all grow and be free"..ITS ABOUT MONEY AND BIG BUSINESS TAKING AWAY THE INDIVIDUALS RIGHT TO GROW AND MAKE CASH IN THE BLACK MARKET.

look at the bigger picture....to me, legalization is basically the government and big business saying .."alrite guys, you have had your fun, but now its time for us to get our hands in your 100 billion dollar underground industry, no more power for the people!!"

so well said it needed to be BIGGER!!! That is the truth right there and if you are just a lil smoker than you don't get it! Also don't tell me Richard Lee is gonna put out the fire ass dank for cheap either cuz my buddy bought a 8th of Querkel a while back and it had powder mold wasn't flushed right ect basically dude couldn't give the bag away!!! If that's what you want the vote yes ....

 

[Toyot4]

so well said it needed to be BIGGER!!! That is the truth right there and if you are just a lil smoker than you don't get it! Also don't tell me Richard Lee is gonna put out the fire ass dank for cheap either cuz my buddy bought a 8th of Querkel a while back and it had powder mold wasn't flushed right ect basically dude couldn't give the bag away!!! If that's what you want the vote yes ....

in every market in this country you have someone that is going to get a majority of the market share. This does not mean there isn't a market available for you to make money in. I saw a ad on tv for Samuel Adams the other night, they have a .9% market share in the beer business. Pretty sure the owner of that biz is not starving.

Why is everyone so jealous of someone like Richard Lee, when all he did was write an initiative to legalize the sale of cannabis in California? This guy is already making millions, you should be thankful he is opening a window for you to make your money legally too. Go work for the guy, get a job in the industry.

Some people are just so blind to the opportunities this is opening for many different people out there.

 

[nomaad]

I'm not jealous. I am offended by people who take the slimy, big money politics route to success. Its one of the lowest roads to take. Humans will ALWAYS act in their own self interest, but its a better world to live in when more people seek to do so with a sense of honor and fairplay. Generosity is a bonus too.

power politics is an expression of the lowest of human nature.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Creates Union Jobs, thats fuckin funny. then you can get a nice union job growing MJ. And you can see one of those stupid work union live better stickers on the back of 1982 chevy truck all beat to shit, ever think about that you never see those stickers on a BMW, Mercedes.

Local 420 MMJ union

 

[Toyot4]

I'm not jealous. I am offended by people who take the slimy, big money politics route to success. Its one of the lowest roads to take. Humans will ALWAYS act in their own self interest, but its a better world to live in when more people seek to do so with a sense of honor and fairplay. Generosity is a bonus too.

power politics is an expression of the lowest of human nature.

this is all very true, but don't you think that the beutiful thing we call Prop 215 has allowed the exact same thing to happen?

i don't see any difference in the way things are operating right now.

 

[nomaad]

Richard Gozinya: Its possible that the guy driving that beat up 82 pickup was doing great with Unions till... oh about 1982. Labor Unions were a large part of what created the "American Dream"... things like a minimum wage and benefits... retirement plans for life long loyal workers. And then there was Reagan. Thatcher in England. I know that labor unions are a joke now, but they had their place in making this country what it was...and is... (positives and negatives.)

I prefer a world with the history to date of the struggle for worker's rights than one without it...

 

[beer batter]

i dont want pot legalized because the demand isnt in pace with the suposed supply of that legal pot. it would come form the medical markets wich some 85% of the funding for the bill came from, richard lee's busnesses. i wont forcast more burglery and crime befor the legal supply for use outside of 215 is established like storfront or delivery aplications, more people demanding more pot would ultimatly creat more black market scheams untill the storfronts and their veneders are established. im on the feince i suppose but the facts are that the DA where raiding legal 215 buisnesses befor obama was in office and the feds could be just as tough on the recreational use ordinance then they where on 215 one would think. it boils down to a loop hole that we could infact sell more marijuana in california legaly but i haven read how the state will controle the supply half of the buisness scheam, they could licens the buisnesses but theirs not telling if theirs sway in DC to allow any of this.
Big possable loop hole to allow personal possession ans sails but in a mannor that the farms and shops are raided by DEA

i grow for me and my families personal medical uses and have been riped off but i know that when the stagte passed 215 theirs many cities and county that set moritoriums and went as far as to prohibit safe access despenceries and also open air cultivation. in the areas that have had 215 shops banned the demend follows onto the streets as much as it does to outlineing counties, the state of california hasnt controled 215 buisnesses so how can it controle this new ballot measure, how can it be taxed if the DEA doesnt allow for it? i imagen fruit stands opening up more then i do the lottery as richard leee put it. i may vote for it jut to get the vote on the right side but i dont see the controle or realistic buisness models to feed the demand yet besides streen dealers, growers and 215 patients and clubs wich should be sperated but probly wont one the smaller scales. the way i see it if you have over an ounce you still go to prison, or is it more then an ounce everyone would get to pull from their 5ftx5ft crop

 

[krunchbubble]

this is all very true, but don't you think that the beutiful thing we call Prop 215 has allowed the exact same thing to happen?

i don't see any difference in the way things are operating right now.

holy shit! if you dont see a difference, you should NOT be part of this thread.............

 

[Toyot4]

holy shit! if you dont see a difference, you should NOT be part of this thread.............

you honestly don't think there is big money politics action taken place in the medical marijuana industry?

of course there is a difference between prop 215 and what tc2010 proposes.

 

[Thundurkel]

this is all very true, but don't you think that the beutiful thing we call Prop 215 has allowed the exact same thing to happen?

i don't see any difference in the way things are operating right now.

THANK YOU!!!! The only difference is going to be us lil dudes wont be able to compete but then again it just might be us lil dudes who survive and the cash croppers that disappear. That's what me and my shop owner were talking about cuz everybody will be growing their own and selling and trading clones and top shelf grows between each other.

 

[beer batter]

parts of the bill just dont make since logistically, 25 square feet woulde produce more then an ounce wich is legal to possess. so legally if you have kids and grow the 5x5ft plot and harvest a half pound thoes kids better be over 21 or els they might get teken away if the cops come and check up on things, then id think people naturally would have diferant underastanding and assesment of the law untill theirs a tragity and a trial and a judges ruling. im thinking some folks owuld grow 5x5ft peop idividual over 21 and then have way more the 1 ounce per person, probly 8-16ounces per person im thinking. i have to read more about it but it puts alot of possable risk assosiated with beign out of compliance with this law is the ballot succeeds.

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Nomad, I don't disagree at all there was a time and a place for unions but most companies now don't abuse the employee, so no real need for a union to grow weed.

 

[nomaad]

this is all very true, but don't you think that the beutiful thing we call Prop 215 has allowed the exact same thing to happen?

i don't see any difference in the way things are operating right now.

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Every part of life is full of douchebaggery. Human nature"has allowed the exact same thing to happen." Some people will use whatever means to protect their own self interests. Others will act with honor. With or without 215... with or without legalization.

I'm just arguing the part where you say that being critical of Richard Lee's style is an act of jealousy.

I'm not unhappy in the world of 215/420. I am not scared of the possible changes brought on by "legalization". I am fluid. I'll be fine... No need to be a hater.

There are other justifications for criticism of R. Lee that have nothing to do with jealousy. Just like there are probably valid criticisms of ME that don't start and end with jealousy. The internet likes to call people names like "hater" when it wants to deflect criticism. I call BOOLSHEET.

There are slimy operators everywhere and there are honorable ones. I choose to do business with the ones who meet me on an honorable level. Maybe the stakes ain't so high, but I don't need the high stakes. I'm pretty happy with what I've got in life and would be happy with less too.

I am officially On The Fence about the November ballot.

I am trying to visualize a scenario in which this bill results in less people in jail in California for marijuana related offenses. I am not convinced one way or another. Even though I am currently basing my voting choice on this one issue, I am open to including other factors in my process... I just haven't heard anything compelling enough for inclusion.

My criticism of the "Oaksterdam Paradigm" (I would like to stop singling out Richard Lee as the poster child for everything that is wrong with our industry- he is not) is part of my program of "speaking truth to power". By taking the "leadership role" in the "medical marijuana industry" and now by taking control of the "legalization agenda" through lobbying efforts and marketing campaigns, those who are working the Oaksterdam Paradigm fit the bill to be watched closely and criticized heavily... as a matter of responsibility.

Its not personal and I am going to take greater pains to make that very clear.

 

[Toyot4]

I don't understand the point you are trying to make. Every part of life is full of douchebaggery. Human nature"has allowed the exact same thing to happen." Some people will use whatever means to protect their own self interests. Others will act with honor. With or without 215... with or without legalization.

All im trying to say is that using the argument that big pharma, corporate greed, blah blah blah, is going to ruin the marijuana industry is not a valid argument at all, for the simple fact that these tactics are already being used in the medical marijuana industry. Its just a really bad argument for why you should vote no on a proposition. And as u stated this mentality exists everywhere and we have a choice to choose who we buy from as well as in your case, supply to.

If i were voting on this initiative for personal reasons alone, i would probably vote no. I have family that lives in mendo, and i do have concern for their well being if the underground cash market is taken out of this area.

But putting personal reasons aside, i think this could create a lot of jobs in a untapped market and really help out our state in the current times.

My big obstacle with this issue is seeing how a single state in this country could legalize a federally illegal substance and it actually lasting for very long until it gets appealed (like prop 8). And this is actually the primary reason i would like to see this initiative passed.

Don't wanna hurt anyone's feelings, just trying to create good discussion on the subject.

 

[nomaad]

You're not hurting my feelings. I think your contribution to the discussion has been constructive.

Some people need a simpler set of rationalizations to make up their minds... big corporations: bad. ergo: vote against corporations. against new shopping centers. against walmart. sometimes you have to accept this kind of fear based rationalization as good enough in support of some causes. Some folks are just not inclined to or capable of a nuanced political opinion.