Tow and Grow

[valais]

Good Day Everyone

I came across the Tow and Grow booth at the THC Expo here in LA and was wondering what you guys thought about it. Here are my main two questions:
1. What grow style would you use?
2. Do you think its worth it?

Website:
http://towandgrow.com/

Here are my pros and cons that I could think of. For reference I am talking about the beast trailer = 43' (16000 watt flower,1800 watt veg) The guys who run the business are super nice and answered a lot of questions for me.
Pros:
- Sealed Grow Trailer- 3 layer soundproof insulation
- Recirculating Stainless Steel Water Tanks (2 100g for Veg, 400g for flower) - Plumbing- floor drain, table drain, tray drain all through one main drain line.
- Electrical System NEMA Standard 125amp/240volt breaker box
- Lumitek Digital Ballasts 1000w
- Flood Trays from Botainca
- Water monitors from BlueLab Guardian
- 4 1700CFM fans Through their well designed air system

Cons:
- One tank for all four flower trays. So I am thinking that adjusting nutrient levels to different trays can not be done. I was hoping to set up a perpetual harvest sog system. Reading Al B's threads I think he did use the same PPM and nutrient solution for each of his tables... thoughts?
- Price tag is sitting at around 89,900 before taxes with taxes in cali that would be around 98,250 out the door. This I know sounds insane to a lot of you but the fact of having a competely moveable growroom is a major advanatge to me.

Couple Pictures:

 

[dtfsux]

1. What grow style would you use?
2. Do you think its worth it?

I wouldnt

NO, let me rephrase that HELL NO

100K


I have set up and run a 35k op. There is NO way I would buy that trailer.. It looks nice as hell, and if someone gave it to me, I would sure as hell use it.
I dont know exactly whats in there but I figure 20k in equipment from my experience in setting up 2 15kw rooms. another 15 for the trailer. maybe 10 for install


Does this thing have AC or CO2?

Also seems like the lights are not that efficient. 16,000 over 4 4x8's. Thats 4000 per 4x8, 125 watts psf w/o Co2. At least they could have staggered them on each end of the table instead of straight down the middle

I understand businesses need to make a profit etc. But knowing what I know and how to build rooms, I couldn't live with myself for buying that.


You could possibly recoup your investment in one run, surely by the second run.

You cant run perpetual on shared reses. You have different needs and IMO on a commercial op, everything should be done in bulk. I have done perpetual and bulk. Bulk wins IMO, clone one time, trim one time, do all res changes at once etc.


I cant see the veg area, you will need quite a bit of room for clones.

 

[chronic user]

if you've got the money and the balls, DO IT!

 

[Goosie]

Better hope you never get into an accident while driving with that thing... I'd rather it be somewhere stationary...

 

[Lazyman]

Yeah, it's price tag is at least double what it should be, maybe even triple. For that money you could go rent a house in the country, blow it up with 16KW , AC and CO2 and still have $50K left over. I agree it's not a great design, buy a trailer and build a better one yourself if you must!

 

[dunkybones]

Well, that's nifty, but I don't see it being very practical or a big seller.

It's over built where it needn't be, such as stainless steel res's and relayed drains, and under built on lighting and a/c. A friggin trailer will get hot just sitting in the sun. And where is effluent supposed to go? I don't think even RV parks expect 100's of gallons of discharge all at once. And I guess you harvest in the bloom room.

I guess I'll start with 50 grand for an F-150 to move the thing...

 

[ShroomDr]

First thought, WOW.

Second thought, they could have done better... It makes me wonder if they have grown before, or if they just are packaging the components.
Lights should be staggered, only one reservoir wtf?, etc.


It reminds me of the 'Weeds' setup. LOTS of equipment, nothing that looks hooked up properly.

 

[bipotato]

My feelings exactly on the "nay"s. But I'm sure most are built to order, so talking to them about a different lighting layout configuration wouldn't really be that hard. For $100k, I'm sure they'll make reasonable accommodations.

 

[Teeg420]

Definitely overpriced! I am all about light saturation but I feel that setup is way to inefficient.

It looks like you cant raise or lower the lights, with different strains that would be a pain in my ass or your ass.

I thought they had a mini split in their or maybe that was the shed they advertise also. The shed had i think 1k's with 2x4 trays.

The cool thing though is if your feeling american you can finance this thing, but then again you could just get a credit card and buy gear for a lot cheaper and save yourself some coin.

I wish I took pics of the other overpriced setups at the expo light the vertical 2k shed or the light spinner shed. You would be dissapointed that maybe you just broke even on the first run, start out small and work your way up.

 

[valais]

Thanks for your input guys.
The unit does have CO2 and runs on swamp coolers for AC the average temp range was 67-84 here in LA.
I do agree the price is high and that the components are not in the perfect configuration but the fact that you have everything you need in a movable unit is what really caught my eye.
I have a couple grows under my belt but nothing of this size.

 

[Oliver Pantsoff]

They got em a lot cheaper than that bro. Check craigslist in the bay area

OP

 

[Vermonster]

i feel like setting up a grown help you get to know your space etc. these are def great for the big money guys looking for fast solutions. kinda sucks if you ask me, if you cant build it they shouldn't come! i would go with not worth it. steal the idea dont buy the product if ya realy like, make it bigger better and faster!!!! vroom vroom

 

[bipotato]

What do the intake & exhaust vents look like from the outside? Where are they, rather?

I hate how it's pumping hot air through the carbon filters. Just another example of "LOTS of equipment, nothing that looks hooked up properly".

 

[toastfighter2]

I really like the whole idea behind it, but the actual product as is(as many have already pointed out) over priced and not that well thought out. Like how hard would it be to use 5 55 gallons plastic barrels for the rez, split the bloom area down the middle and flip flop the lights. I just don't know man, for the price I would seriously look into something DIY, and have a really bad ass portable dope growing machine.

 

[bipotato]

If it was done right, I don't think the price is too high. Yes, it's obviously going to cost more than doing it yourself but you also don't have to do the work and you can deploy almost instantly. If you have a decent bankroll and don't like having to depend on anyone to multiply your $$ fast, something like this might be the way to do it. Although to make it worth the while at that price IMO, it would have to be sealed air-tight (meaning a different type of air cooling system) and have an air conditioning unit. Otherwise there's going to be too much work & effort needed to modify it to my liking, that I might as well do it myself or do something else.

This isn't the first time I've seen something like this. Anyone remember Hot Box Cargo based out of Oakland? They suddenly disappeared one day, I don't know what happened. I always half-joked that they were "bought up" by a large crime organization and told to keep the concept on the down-low.

 

[shovelit]

Wow 100k thats a lot of $$$ buy your self a shipping container either a 20" or a 40" portable and easy to fit out

 

[TommytheCat]

It's interesting to see, but definitely not worth it in my book. You could build yourself one hell of a better grow setup for $100k.

 

[Hydro-Soil]

They'd save a ton on the price by just ditching the stainless steel.

Swamp coolers are NOT A/C. Only useful in a few places.... anywhere else it just pumps too much humidity into the grow or, worse yet, aren't effective at all when the outside humidity is over 35%. Sorry.


Stay Safe!

 

[TOWandGROW]

The TOWandGROW Defined

The TOWandGROW Defined

Lots of comments about our systems. That's great. Just thought I could clear up a few things.

Our trailers are built to be used in a warehouse situation and in a production environment. They can be used outdoors but it presents several problems the first of which is security. These are aluminum skinned trailers with padlocks - not very secure. If a theif didn't just drive away with it they would certainly be able to get access very quickly with a sawsall. The second is privacy. Right now it might appear to most people to be just a trailer but once they become more popular people will figure out that if the trailer has a power cord, water hose and drain attached and makes a humming noise there is probably something valuable in it. Every TOWandGrow sold or ordered so far has gone into or will be going into a warehouse.

Our trailers are mobile because but they need to be stationary during the growing cycle. A better name would have been TOWthenGROW but its not as catchy. If you are in a warehouse and your landlord or the fire inspector wants access for something you can unhook your trailer and move it fairly simply. This also helps with building permits. Dispensaries and collectives don't need to get the whole system permitted - just the wall plugs, hose bibs and drain lines the trailers will hook up to. The trailers are not permanent fixtures and can be hooked up after the building is inspected and approved.

The TOWandGROW system is an ebb and flow system designed for efficiency and low maintenance. Its probably not what you want if you are a hobbyist, tinkerer or are growing several variations of plants and need flexibilty. If your are looking for maximum yeild with maximum efficiency we are your answer. The system was designed by three people. Two have a combined 40 years experience growing and the third has 20 years experience in manufacturing.

Here is how the system is designed: The veg room is used to grow the babies in a clone kit. Once rooted (1 to 2 weeks) the plants go into 6" cubes on 1/4" coco pads. You can fit about 45 of these comfortably in the 4x8 tray. The small resevoir is just under 100 gallons and will fill and drain the veg tray as often as you like - typically 2-3 minutes everyother day initially up to 2-3 minutes 2-3 times a day once the plants are big enough. The tank has its own monitor for Ph and PPM and its own aerator.

Once ready to switch they are moved to the flowering room and the 6" cube with 1/4" coco pad is placed on a 12x12"x1" coco pad. They are placed 10-15 per tray depending on your preference. The main tank can be filled up to 450 gallons but even the 4 tray veg only needs about a 300 gallon fill. Nutrients are added to a fresh tank every 6 days for 7 cycles (42 days) and then just water for an additional 5-7 days until harvest.

On the day you harvest your new babies that were started the day you switched will be ready so you can move those into your flowering room and take new babies for the veg room.

This cycle can be repeated up 7-8 times per year. The plants typically grow within 12-6 inches of the lights and produce anywhere from 1 to 1.4 lbs per light.

Some specifics:
Stainless steel tanks. The most important aspect of building a grow room in a trailer is efficiency. We custom build our stainless steel tanks to maximize efficiency. We flattened out the tank so that we could put the 4x8 tray above it. We have a recirculation feature to help mix nutrients and the basin pump (which allows for the trays to drain back into the tank) also recirculated the tank. We use an aerator desinged for a 6400 gallon lake to get maximum aeration in the water.

Air Flow. Many growers have different styles. When we built this trailer we were most concerned with efficiency and maximum yeild. We used a system that has been proven over and over in many personal experiences. We allow fresh air in from underneath the trays with a filtered vent. We use 1 or 2 (depending on the number of lights) 1700 cfm fans which suck air through the lights. We modify the intake on the hoods so that each hood in a string of 8 gets air flow evenly. We exhaust the heat very quickly which eliminates most heat issues. The air goes through the hoods and through a 39" carbon filter into a filter box where it is then sucked out through another 39" carbon filter and exhausted through the roof. In a warehouse situation it may also be advantageous to extend that roof vent to the roof of the warehouse.

Cooling: We use evaporative coolers for several reasons. The main reason is that they use much less power than air conditioning. We feel that power is almost always limited so we should concentrate the power usage to the lights and not waste it on cooling. Because of the massive air exchange described above this does not give us any problems with humidity. The evaporative coolers are effective at keeping the temperature stable and are a very efficient use of available amperage. It is a fact that in very humid climates they would not be as effective and we will have to use some other form of cooling. We are based in Southern California and have only sold trailers here so that is not an issue.

CO2. We have a CO2 generator with a 15 or 25 gallon tank. It is set up to run 10 minutes per hour during the light cycle and off when dark. We realize that because of the massive air flow we are wasteful on the CO2. This is a necessary trade-off. The fact is propane is relatively cheap. Having the CO2 run longer to compensate for the air-flow is an effective way to go.

Lights. We have heard lots of comments about not being able to lower the lights. The inside height of the trailer is 6' 9". The glass of our hoods is exactly 5' 5" from the bottom of our trays. The walls, ceiling and floor of the trailer is all highly reflective FRP white tile board. There is no need to lower the lights for the flowering cycle. At switch time the plants should be about 3-4 feet tall. This means they will be within 18-20 inches of the lights. Our philosophy (based on 40 years experience) is that lumens=yeild. The more lumens you can deliver the bigger yeild you will get. Obviously there is some loss of efficiency based on square footage and geography but four lights over each tray is still efficient enough to make it worth the cost. We like the suggestion of staggering the lights and may try to work that into our production if we can make it work with the ducting. Remember that in a trailer space is the premium. By staggering the lights means we will have to move the ducting into the aisle where people walk.

Price: A big objection. We understand the price is high and as we build more trailers and our production becomes more efficient we will be able to bring the price down a bit. We still think the range is acceptable given the fact that we've taken all the work out of it. Yes if you are skilled and have experience you can build a grow room for much less. You may even be able to build it in a trailer. We think our innovations and use of space give you the maximum bang for your buck and therefore is worth the price. Yes you could build something in a shipping container and those can be moved but you need a container company to move it. Our trailers can be moved by and 2500 or 250 series truck or higher. You can always rent one of those at Penske at any time. You can build a house yourself for $150 a square foot or have a builder do it for $350. If you had the time and knowledge the answer is clear. We think that the folks running dispensaries and collective have alot better things to do then to self-build a permanent grow room. Our trailers offer many advantages.

Customization: We can work with you and build you anything you want. Right now we are building a trailer for a customer that will have one aisle down the middle and four 3x6' trays down each side under 8 light a side (16 total) with no veg. Instead of ebb and flow we are building a drip system for him that will feed-to-waste. We know there are many different styles and variations to getting the job done.

I invite comments and suggestions. In fact I appreciate constructive criticism because it helps us build a better product. Just know that the system IS based on hands-on experience and has been well thought out. We are not a bunch of guys who through something together.

Respect,
TOWandGROW

Check out some videos of the TOWandGROW http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=towandgrow&aq=f

 

[bipotato]

Excellent answers and responses to the issues & concerns addressed, TOWthenGROWthenhopefullynotgetbustedbeforeharvest.




Only thing I didn't find fully satisfactory was the in how expected limitations in power was the reason for not having an A/C, yet at the same time 16 lights straight down the middle of a trailer.