To Legalize Cannabis Or Not To?

[dagnabit]

having read the bill completely it WILL NOT effect your medical status...

what it will do is set the precedent for other states to follow...

i am not in cali..

i will be tuesday though

ppl will be coming to cali for tourism and bringing HUGE ammounts of money into your bankrupt state

its been said time and again "as goes california so goes the nation"

think about the bigger picture not your small myopic view!

pass the bill then amend it...

do not allow perfection to be the enemy of good

 

[vta]

Frozen........

RECORD JUMP IN MARIJUANA ARRESTS IN CALIFORNIA

FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE
DATE: 9/19/08
CONTACT: Dale Gieinger, CaNORML 415-563-5858

RECORD JUMP IN MARIJUANA ARRESTS IN CALIFORNIA

California posted a record surge in marijuana arrests in 2007, according to data from the state Criminal Justice Statistics Center.

Altogether, there were 74,119 arrests for marijuana in 2007, up 13% from the year before. This marks the largest number of arrests since marijuana was decriminalized in 1976.

Felony arrests, which involve sales or cultivation, surged 19% to 16,123, the highest level since the height of the drug war in 1990. Misdemeanor arrests, which involve possession, reached an all-time record high of 57,995, up 12% on the year. The U.S. also reported a record number of marijuana arrests (872,721) in 2007.

The surge in felony arrests appears to reflect increased commercial growing. CAMP eradication statistics have soared in recent years; last year saw an all-time record of 2.9 million plants, up from 1.6 million in 2006.

Much of the crop is exported out of state. The vast majority of the commercial crop is non-medical. Just 10% of California's 3 million marijuana consumers are legal Prop. 215 patients. There was no reduction in MJ arrests in California after passage of Prop. 215.

"The record is clear: marijuana is here to stay, and the law can't put a stop to it," says California NORML Coordinator Dale Gieringer. "Taxpayers would be better off to legalize and tax marijuana than to continue wasting money arresting, prosecuting and imprisoning traffickers in an unwinnable, unending war."

Arrests for other drugs declined in 2007 : dangerous drug felonies (mainly methamphetamine) dropped substantially for the second year in a row to 71,143 (down 15% from 2006); and narcotics felonies declined to 55,078 (down 2%).

 

[Frozenguy]

You keep more than an oz on you ANYWHERE you go? Their is no limit inside your home, the 1 oz applies only to the amount you have on you OUTSIDE of your home. I don't see many situations that you would need more than an ounce outside your home. Though if you did, just bring a couple of friends. Lets say you bring 3 friends with you, give each of them an ounce before you leave. Magically, you now have 4 oz's, amazing!!!

Hm.. Ok, well that is better lol. I guess I missed that part, but if it is true, that eases my mind a bit..

having read the bill completely it WILL NOT effect your medical status...

what it will do is set the precedent for other states to follow...

i am not in cali..

i will be tuesday though

ppl will be coming to cali for tourism and bringing HUGE ammounts of money into your bankrupt state

its been said time and again "as goes california so goes the nation"

think about the bigger picture not your small myopic view!

pass the bill then amend it...

do not allow perfection to be the enemy of good

Ok, I agree it will bring money and set precedence, both of which are greatly needed, and I agree seeking perfection will usually end in failure, but I feel this legislation is far from perfect, and it will take almost 50% more signatures just to amend it..

OK. So it says it wont effect medicinal users? As long as medicinal laws are protected, I can almost safely say (I would need to read it more again to make sure) I would vote for it.

But if they are not protected, I will not vote for legislation that will make me a criminal.

 

[Frozenguy]

Frozen........

Right, ok possession of how much?
Breaking the law is breaking the law. Those people chose to break the law, if they were wrongly charged, well most probably didn't fight it well.

I've been pulled over over 15 times and only once was my weed confiscated and I was given misdemeanor possession. I went to court and got the DA to look at my recommendation and he apologized and dismissed the case.

I know a guy who was driving was 85 clones and 8 pounds. He got like 13 months in jail..

You play dumb games, you win dumb prizes. We have good medicinal laws here in California. Everyone qualifies for an easy to get recommendation. This bill will make me and many others criminals, unless it doesn't effect medicinal users which I should go confirm right nowwww..



Did I read this right?
(c) “Personal consumption” shall not include, and nothing in this Act shall permit cannabis:

(ii) consumption in public or in a public place;

So no smoking outside off your property?

 

[Frozenguy]

Is this the bill in its entirety?
http://www.taxcannabis.org/index.php/pages/initiative/

Is this wording that protects the medicinal laws? This isn't even a section, its just a number in the description of the legislation. Anyone that knows for sure want to confirm this? Because I see no other mention of medicinal marijuana in the bill, except it says it will now be easier to obtain it...


7. Ensure that if a city decides not to tax and regulate the sale of cannabis, that buying and selling cannabis within that city’s limits remain illegal, but that the city’s citizens still have the right to possess and consume small amounts, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.

8. Ensure that if a city decides it does want to tax and regulate the buying and selling of cannabis (to and from adults only), that a strictly controlled legal system is implemented to oversee and regulate cultivation, distribution, and sales, and that the city will have control over how and how much cannabis can be bought and sold, except as permitted under Health and Safety Sections 11362.5 and 11362.7 through 11362.9.


If this is true, and its legit, it makes me MUCH more comfortable about the legislation.

 

[stc9357]

You know, this initiative only specifies a 25 SQUARE foot limit, not cubic. That means we have no vertical limit on our rooms. So unless they consider separate chambers as grow space then we could have as many plants as we could fit into a 5x5 area times how ever many 5x5 chambers we can fit vertically. If it does work that way (as it is not specified) this could be great for AF growers like myself. For instance, if I had a 5x5x10 space, then with AF's I could have 5 5x5x2 rooms. Lets say I fit ~20 plants per 5x5 area, that is over 100 plants. If I were to yield over 10g's per plant (no problem with newer AF's) that would give me over 1kg in under 70-75 days at most, in a year that could easily turn into over 5kg; 5kg a year is = to ~420g a month. Realistically, you could yield much more than that given that new AF strain can yield up to 2 oz or more.

I had already seen this loophole in the proposal which is why I didn't understand why people were complaining, but I assume with everybody reading comprehension isn't a strong point. If I lived in CA I would have my grow area going all the way up to the top of my 12 foot ceilings.

 

[RetroGrow]

This is a trick question, right?
It is disturbing to read the comments of the remarkably selfish people who want it to remain illegal so they can continue to profit from the black market. This is the same type of thinking that motivated William Randolph Hurst and others to demonize cannabis to begin with. They put their own personal greed above all else, even if it means imprisoning and destroying the lives of millions. It's because of that type of thinking that we have this monstrous "war on drugs" to begin with.
This is pretty much a no-brainer for any cannabis user. We should never have been persecuted to begin with, and certainly, where the opportunity to end this persecution presents itself, we must seize it.
For those who want to keep the black market in place so that they can profit at other's expense, I say, go to another state, or country, where it is still illegal, and continue your black market ways.
Meanwhile, give the rest of us a break.
We really need it.
Once any legalization effort passes, it is just the beginning. More states will follow, and local law enforcement is not likely to pursue people for growing over the limits in an atmosphere of permissiveness. We need to tear down that wall, and if this is the first step, we need to take it, imperfect or not.

 

[stc9357]

This is a trick question, right?
It is disturbing to read the comments of the remarkably selfish people who want it to remain illegal so they can continue to profit from the black market. This is the same type of thinking that motivated William Randolph Hurst and others to demonize cannabis to begin with. They put their own personal greed above all else, even if it means imprisoning and destroying the lives of millions. It's because of that type of thinking that we have this monstrous "war on drugs" to begin with.
This is pretty much a no-brainer for any cannabis user. We should never have been persecuted to begin with, and certainly, where the opportunity to end this persecution presents itself, we must seize it.
For those who want to keep the black market in place so that they can profit at other's expense, I say, go to another state, or country, where it is still illegal, and continue your black market ways.
Meanwhile, give the rest of us a break.
We really need it.
Once any legalization effort passes, it is just the beginning. More states will follow, and local law enforcement is not likely to pursue people for growing over the limits in an atmosphere of permissiveness. We need to tear down that wall, and if this is the first step, we need to take it, imperfect or not.

Unfortunately it's not a trick question you'll be amazed by how many people on this forum allow greed to supersede the needs of people in their own state and the states around them. Just so they can keep their 5,000 a lb. prices from inflated black market prices.

 

[HookaHittaH]

Legalize so no one has to fear jail time for growing a plant...

 

[usda101]

Hell no the cartels have plenty of rackets an legallizin wont change much. might get more people killed smaller market more violence for wats left of the pie.an the government gettin involved will fuc up everything.

 

[dagnabit]

^^^^

the government is involved NOW
and things are pretty fucked up
better to legalize and get them out a little bit dont ya think?

 

[subrob]

ok ive been sucked in a lil bit...but still just read this page...haha...maybe the bill isnt perfect, but change from within is always easier then change from the outside...once we get it going the momentum will take care of itself....ive been watching this battle going on in this country for two decades...and i have seen more momentum in the last 18 months than the last 18 years...truly(here in cali)...if we wait around for a better bill, we may be waiting for quite awhile...we need to be united...all of us...it is better. i cant tell you exactly why like some of the more practiced posters on these boards, but from my experience its the easier path.
---a position that people MAY take into consideration: no matter what happens on a city,county, state or federal level, those that are in jail and prison now will stay there, so i take an attitude that we need to keep as many people out of that position as we can and we need to do it as soon as possible. it bothers me when i think about people in a cell for cannabis...literally gets a knot in my stomach sometimes when im thinking on the subject...doesnt that happen to you? it should.
---as far as some of the finer points people are arguing, i like that i saw someone else mention they understand the age limit...heres my take, while i would not personally legislate when someone else is emotionally mature enough to start stretching thier minds limits..if i were to have it to do over again, I would start in my early twenties and i think i understand what benefits i may have gotten by waiting...and i think my enjoyment of canna and medicinal benefits would have been heightened in my later years...but i guess thats for another thread..haha

 

[usda101]

^^^^

the government is involved NOW
and things are pretty fucked up
better to legalize and get them out a little bit dont ya think?

Not sure it would get them out.... specially when you here about this MELLOW YELLOW an only one strain being legal i need to research it more, but the goverment is positioning itself to stay involved ..but we will see.

 

[IPuFF]

I voted for No... Marijuana is one of the last great equalizers for the lower and middle class in this country... and I hope it stays that wasy for all of the people that have put their life's work into this plant... I know families that have being growing for decades, not to get rich, but just to make a decent living in a time where a good job is hard to come by (considering everybody doesn't have 15-20k a year to go to college).


We have seen this before... During prohibition of alcohol the citizens took matters into their own hands and produced their own alcohol... After prohibition ended, the government made sure to outlaw the production of alcohol by the citizens (making sure they always get their tax cut on alcohol sales). I think the same thing will happen with marijuana eventually. Big corporations will spend millions if not billions to lobby on capitol hill to make marijuana the new moonshine, making it legal to purchase in stores but illegal to produce for personal consumption. Why wouldnt they??? Who is going to stop them when they have billions sitting around waiting on the next hot "investment" to pop up??

x2

I see a lot of good points in this thread. I myself am border line on the position and fear far to many people dont even know whats really going on.

I know many people who grow/distribute ontop of their ordinary lives/jobs in order to support themselves. These are not evil greedy people, they are just trying to make $ doing something they love and support themselves and their loved ones. It becomes a lifestyle for these people and im afraid that big corporations will ruin this for many(not all) people.


One thing that comes to mind is this analogy:
mom and pop stores VS superstores such as wallmart.
All the $ gets funnelled down to the elite and what need is there for that?

Although this is not the only issue at hand, it is deffinately one to consider.

I deffinitly dont agree with people going to jail for "non-violent" mj crimes.

Its almost at a perfect medium in my opinion.
many small growers can get away without being detected while many big growers often supersize there shit, get greedy and then get caught.

We need a system that will stabalize itself economically and not take $ from the poor and put it in the pockets of the rich.

With all this rambling, i think i need to have a bowl.

Happy Easter all!


And just for the record, Im gonna go ahead an put my bet on not getting legalized. I sense something will come up like always

 

[Yes4Prop215]

in order for full legalization to pass the rest of the country needs to get on board with it, and it plain and simply wont happen.

it just wont...cant you honestly see right wingers or conservative dems in states like arkansas, texas, etc voting for legalization?

even if cali legalizes it, which it wont because there is still alot of split ideas, it will still be illegal in certain states.

and what exactly is "legalization"..it just means you can have an OZ on you and have a small grow.

most people will still be trying to run 10k operations and get as much LBs as possible, and this will still be jail time.

you guys complain about those "wanting to make a profit" but thats almost every one in the industry from richard lee to the dispenserays to the co-ops to the lowly 8th dealers...its all profit motivated. there will ALWAYS be profit motivation, even if its legalized and indoors sell for only 2 a P there will still be profit! just means you gotta grow 15 lbs instead of 5 to make the same amount of cash....

 

[Yes4Prop215]

i see so many parrallels between this and the new health care bill

those who support it have good intentions, and teh main points (legalization, healthcare coverage for all) have good sounds to them.

but when you read the fine print you see avenues where big corps are gonna step it and change the game.

this sounds like its gonna take power away from the people really. Yeah you wont go to jail for a few ounces, but now you can even make a dime selling herbs and you gotta find a new job in this tough ass economy.

everyone says "theres gonna be high grade growers selling good stuff, just like small breweries do against miller budweiser.."

whos says thats gonna happen? the governments gonna make those "high grade growers' illegal so you're forced to buy the government crap or revert to breaking the law just like before.

this bill gives me the impression, that while it makes legal for your everyday smoker to chief in peace...it is really just opening up the door for big pharma to step in and fuck the whole game up

 

[dagnabit]

big pharma is going to break federal law because california legalizes?

and risk r.i.c.o. seizure of ALL of their assets?
you really think so?

with anti business obama in the white house?

nope..

this bill opens no doors for "big corporations" to begin selling cannibis...
"big corporations" have legal departments that will not allow them to break federal law...

 

[subrob]

^^^making good points there(yesonprop215), as are many, however...if the bill passes and less people go to jail(notice i did not say no one goes to jail) and it creates an avenue for companies to start making million dollar profits( and i believe w every ounce of my soul that is where it is headed, regardless)...its STILL PROGRESS...once governing bodies let us in from a perspective other then medical, they will never get us out. its still better than what we got now. this shit aint gonna change overnight folks, more people are gonna die for it(thats right i said it) before we live in pot smoker neo hippie paradise...you gots ta win battles before ya win the war...
...now i dont know richard lee...but lets say for a second that he is a fatcat scumbag profiteer ...hmmm...so, on one side we have fatcatscumbag profiter politicians and on the other side we have a fatcatscumbag canna profiteer who has unquestionably had a hand in getting us to where we are now...whose side you picking if you have to?
---and i know i am not quoting subsections and i havent even read all of the bill(thats code for where do i find it so i can read it for the first time..haha) but i dont need to. we are all fighting over particulars that dont fuckin matter yet, and wont if we all dont unite behind something. they still have us right where they want us...divided. history teaches us many things, specifically sometimes you gotta do something you dont like to get what you need...its the endgame folks..thats what counts

 

[zappa66]

I voted no because, honestly, as a young person I need the cash flow (from growing) going into collage.

 

[joe fresh]

i see alot of ppl talking about how if this bill passes then all the big corporations will take over and things wont be the same, alot of ppl complain that they dont want ppl comming out and charging ridiculous prices, but guess what....this is all already hapening.

there are already ppl with 15-20 grow ops pumping millions in their pocket. so if this bill passes then these ppl will now be taxed, more money for the state. if you think quality is going too suffer then guess what...stop buying weed, if weed is legal then there is no reason that you couldnt grow it yourself.

if your gonna sit there and complain about prices or big corporations, thats already here because topo many ppl are scared to grow with the illegal status, but if its legal then more ppl grow, that means more weed on the market, and that means more selection and lower prices, with more ppl growing then less ppl are buying

jjust my 2c, but im from canada where weed is like 140/oz for good dank, but we follow what ever the US says