Run Off 1400 ppm on little plants...what should be done?

[slowandeasy]

So I have been feeding some small plants in Coco. Started with 300-350 ppm, but was just keeping moist. Today I watered to run off for the 1st time. Measured the ppm and it was 1350! I see slight yellowing, but it does not look like burn. Plants are growing very fast and were just watered with full strength 6/9 Rez/H3ead formula for the 1st time last night. Should I be concerned or do a flush then re feed? Any suggestions? Thanks!!

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

Flush and check the run off. I wouldn't keep feeding until you get that under control. Just out of curiousity let me know what your ppms come out to after you flush.

 

[Equilibrium]

If I understood correctly the runoff idea, you get an increase in PPM when your plants takes more water than nutrients, meaning they more thirsty than hungry.
What do you mean when you say "was just keeping moist"? Maybe they need more watering time or an increase in the watering schedule to allow them to catch more water.
300 PPM is not much, I don't think you need to flush. How old are you seedlings?

I could be wrong though and I would wait someone with more experience on it.

 

[slowandeasy]

2 weeks old. Was just keeping moist to promote root growth. I was afraid of overwatering small seedlings. Now they are in beer cups and roots are to the bottom. I never watered enough to run off until today. There is slight yellowing in bottom leaves, but does not look like burn. pH 5.6 half strength 6/9 was used to keep moist. Now they are growing very fast and have 4 sets of leaves. Any advice?

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

Sorry if they're that small then don't flush. I'd just keep an eye on them.

 

[Equilibrium]

Yep I would not flush too.

If the roots already are to the bottom it means they need more watering than before and the odds of over watering them diminishes greatly.
I would try to increase the lengths of watering to allow the plants to drink more water.
It's hard to over water a well rooted plant in her container. Keep the same PPMs.

Get back to us with the run off PPMs!

 

[alegoblin]

On any more of that coco you plan to use be sure and give it several hot water rinses and then a cold ro water rinse before use.You may have coco with a high concentration of salt from the brick.Resulting in high PPMs.Just a thought.

 

[slowandeasy]

I will check the run off on a piece of the coco I used to see if there is any salts

 

[HydroManiac]

I just had a issue in coco with run off to being high in ppm. I flushed them and it helped bigtime

 

[slowandeasy]

Ok, so I checked a piece of new Coco. It was 750 ppm!!!!! That is the Burpee brand, that Mosca said was good to go, with no rinse! Also have Botonicare, it was 250-300 ppm. So, what do I do to my plants? They are in the 750 Coco, and run off was 1350 with nutes. Like I said they are 2 weeks old and in beer cups.

I ran pure RO water threw the botonicare, and got it to Zero. This will be what I use for clone and new seedlings. Only thing I need to know is what I should do with my current plants? Thanks alot!

 

[Hemphrey Bogart]

Ok, so I checked a piece of new Coco. It was 750 ppm!!!!! That is the Burpee brand, that Mosca said was good to go, with no rinse! Also have Botonicare, it was 250-300 ppm. So, what do I do to my plants? They are in the 750 Coco, and run off was 1350 with nutes. Like I said they are 2 weeks old and in beer cups.

I ran pure RO water threw the botonicare, and got it to Zero. This will be what I use for clone and new seedlings. Only thing I need to know is what I should do with my current plants? Thanks alot!

Flush the hell out of them then move them to bigger containers filled with preflushed coco? That's the only thing I can think of.

 

[slowandeasy]

Anyone else care to give advice feel free...thanks!!

 

[Carl Carlson]

the plants are growing fast, but you see slight yellowing.

Ok the the first part is great, but on which part of the plant do you see the yellowing?

The location (top, middle, bottom) on the plant and a more precise description might tell us all we need to know to figure you where your plants are deficient.

To get an idea of what I'm talking about read this: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=161010

Now as for the runoff, I've asked this question a few times on the runoff threads, but no one seems to want to take a stab at it.

Where did the idea of testing runoff come from, the rockwool growers? It doesn't apply to coco and other soilless mediums even if they are being used in a hydroponic system.

Don't measure the runoff. When you measure the runoff that is a product of watering to slight excess, by design you are partly measuring the concentrated nutrient water that created the runoff in the first place. I don't see any way around that.

Use the pour through method to test the coco EC (and pH):

http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/depts/hort/floriculture/crop/crop_PTS.htm

If anyone doubts this, run a test.

Saturate your plant and measure the runoff.

Wait 30-60 min. and properly run the pour through test.

Unless your plant is totally salt logged to begin with, I guarantee the EC / ppm number from the pour through test will be less than the number from the runoff. If multiple people run the test, we'll have a couple that come back with numbers that show the exact difference between the runoff and pour through results was the EC of the res. itself.

And because 100% coco grows seem to be pH stable, you might not see much of a difference between the adjusted pH of the res., the pH of the runoff and the pH from the pour through test.

 

[slowandeasy]

So your telling me that brand new Coco should have a ppm of 700? That does not seem right to feed a seedling. That means it has not been washed good. Why would you want 700ppm of mystery salt in your mix? I am just saying from the start, I am sure it will become concentrated from feeding nutes, but should one start with that high of salt in the medium?

Botonicare run off was 250-300 right from bag. Sounds alot better than 700 to me. I rinsed some Botonicare until it read zero. I plan on drying it out, then re-moistening with 1/2 strength nutes. If I added 300ppm of nutes to 700ppm coco without flushing, wouldnt that be bad for a seedling? This is my first try with coco, so I am not sure what is best. Thanks for the help.

 

[Carl Carlson]

If I were you, I'd transplant into some well rinsed coco.

you don't necessarily have to flush the plants first. You said it was slight yellowing that just started right? tell us more about the yellowing, and as I mentioned in the previous post we can probably diagnose the deficiency.

I don't know if your read my first reply carefully enough. I didn't say that runoff testing of unused coco with plain water was not accurate, I said that runoff testing immediately after watering with nutrients is not accurate. There is a huge difference... Please re-read carefully, I am trying to help you.

 

[slowandeasy]

If I were you, I'd transplant into some well rinsed coco.

you don't necessarily have to flush the plants first. You said it was slight yellowing that just started right? tell us more about the yellowing, and as I mentioned in the previous post we can probably diagnose the deficiency.

I don't know if your read my first reply carefully enough. I didn't say that runoff testing of unused coco with plain water was not accurate, I said that runoff testing immediately after watering with nutrients is not accurate. There is a huge difference... Please re-read carefully, I am trying to help you.

I read it right the first time. Good info, I was just asking if a brick should have that high of ppm at 1st hydration. I am glad I checked, before they get worse. The bottom leaves are getting a tad yellow, not burnt looking...may become bloctchy soon, and it maybe starting on other leaves. I transplanted 1 week ago into Beer Cups, using the Burpee Coco. Checked the ppm of new Coco today, and it was 700ppm with RO water. I had no idea it was that high, I was told it was good to go with no rinse.

So that could be the problem, I am sure it is. With 700 ppm, who knows whats in it? What is the solution? A few people said they were too young to flush. I just feed 600 ppm today, the run off was 1350. Should I just water with water next time, then transplant into flushed coco? New to Coco, so any help is much appreciated.

 

[slowandeasy]

Plants grew overnight, but one is getting more yellowing on bottom leaves. Not sure what to do?

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

Unfortunately there are still people around here that tell others to go ahead and use coco unrinsed and over the last few months I have seen the same posts over and over "Why is my plant yellowing, or purple when I put it in coco?" or "Why is my run off so high?"

I have a very unproven theory, but I think it may have to do with how in proximity the coconut tree is with the ocean. Sometimes you get insane salt contents and sometimes you don't.

We need a sticky in this forum that says "Please prerinse your coco as it will save us being asked the same question everyday"

I'm sorry for the early troubles man. Its very possible for your plant to make it through just fine, but on my last run I lost one because of unrinsed coco. The only cure for my dying plants was to keep giving them a nice watering with a good amount of runoff every time. Over time the garbage ran out of the coco and they recovered amazingly.

 

[Equilibrium]

Ok take my words with a grain of salt as I do not know coco that well, I'm starting myself with it and finishing a run in soil. i red a lot of things about coco and talked to people who runs with coco before i decide to switch to this so promising medium.
What I'm going to tell you is what I would do if I were you.

First pics would be welcome, as it could help us see what kind of yellowing you have.
Are you sure about the pH of your water? Take your water, mix it with your nutrients adjust pH if needed, let it rest for an hour, shake it and read the pH. What's the figure?

What are the size of the pots they're in right now?

Does the "Burpee" coco comes hydrated or compressed?

Did you try to take some of the coco and rinse it once or twice and then test the runoff with your RO water? Get back at us with the result.

I mean for what we know, we are not even sure the runoff test is a good way to measure overfertilization. But what's sure is that this yellowing comes from somewhere and we need to find where!

Can you get some pics?



Carl Carlson: I can't open the webpage with the test. Seems like a good info, can you paste it here?

 

[Equilibrium]

Guywithoutajeep: That is exactly what the owner if my hydro shop told me when i started gettin' interested about coco.

He told me a lot of coco comes from South America (Argentina if I remember) and being near the sea, it has a lot of salts in it.
The guy uses coco since years and he recommended me a brand which buy the coco from India and use clear water to rinse it. It is even less expensive than the Canna brand.

Your theory is not unproven, it is totally right.