The growing large plants, outdoors, thread...

[Butte]

Been uber-busy at the Rancho Relaxo Taking cuts, mixing soil and setting up new projects (shhh!).

Regarding elevation, we're at 2500', so we get some pretty amazing weather. We did have a spot of snow yesterday, but it was gone by the afternoon.

I top really hard once and here and there lightly after that. The initial hard topping is primarily what contributes to the ball shape and minor topping helps fill any gaps in the canopy.

Tom, it was a real pleasure to spend time jawing with you in such an amazing time and place. Beautiful views, beautiful buds and lots of good growers...what could be better? To pick your brain up here at the Rancho! Seriously, I cut up the BD for you and they're rooting now. Will take more cuts Monday so there should be plenty. Plan on staying the night and we'll cook up some nut crusted salmon...

 

[nvthis]

Regarding elevation, we're at 2500', so we get some pretty amazing weather. We did have a spot of snow yesterday, but it was gone by the afternoon.

Yup, we might make it through this entire winter with no real dingers. Ok by me. The older I get, the less fun it becomes.. Something about working in it (and NOT playing in it!)

My daughter is 5. She lives for it..

 

[baet]

thanks butte for keeping up with posts and informing us less informed, respect

 

[Tom Hill]

Big love Butte, sincerely, a kindred spirit through and through amigo.


Wait till you see the tractor work I did today, tehee. Clearing coyote brush etc, progress. I'll get some photos up soon.

I've been wanting to show how not to over water as well during transplanting bla bla. Many horrible advice out there on that particular subject imo, plants soaked to their doom.

I have never bothered to prune so to speak beyond the occasional modified leader system and they seem to take the desired shape. Most of what I know about pruning comes out of the fruit tree camp and has been applied to cannabis.

Muchisimos gracias for the solid señor, unreal, get after it for me bro I got up with Nomaad and he hooked me up too, a real clean set-up he has, pro. Again, pics soon and I'll try to catch up with folks. -T

 

[localhero]

Hey Tom,

So I could run a mix of peat perlite , bio char and compost to replace the black gold? Plus azomite and lime in the form of ground oyster shell.

 

[HOVAH2.0]

with all respect....why arent major seed company genetic represented more in Cali grows?

IE: paradiseseeds, serious seeds, dutch passion.... does anyone besides me, trust these

genetics.....these companys spend lots of money perfecting theyre products to issues,

mold, heat....


to me its a no-brain er, just buy proven seeds from good company, clone.

i couldn't spend thousands in money, labor only to use a homeboy's

attempt a breeding, clone? Am i showing my novice, for only growing proven shit...

kali-mist, superlemonhaze, sensi-star, people go crazy for, here... dont they in cali?

does Cali have better shit than major seed company's? anything by Serious, Paradise i trust yield, quality... Am i right?

the guy on 2 per site:
im really think this is the alternative path for yield.... i will try 2 per site of 150gal.... i dont have funds of west folk, i have to amend with native soil... economically its better use of resources, maximized use of root space using 2 plants vs hoping 1 can by itself, 50percent better chance of it happening using 2, i calculate. 2.0

 

[nomaad]

I grew Berry White in 09, which is a keeper pheno of White Berry from Paradise seeds.... but we're commercial growers and only clones offer the kind of guarantied characteristics we're looking for. Granted, I look foreard to having the chance to run some seeds and find some keepers of my own, but my feeling is that in order to do so (even with "proven" seed) you must run LOTS of seeds and weed out (no pun intended) all the phenos that are worthless...all the while keeping mom's of EACH pheno, growing them out and then cloning from the Moms you have selected.

Running from pure seed will introduce a LOT of unknowns into your grow. Running a proven clone cuts a lot of this out. From the perspective of a commercial grower, clones make a lot more sense.

The question "does cali have better shit than major seed companies?" is kind of meaningless. Are california med industry clones "better" than gear from seed companies? All cali clones once started with a seed. The keeper phenos are kept for the simple reason that they exhibit the best traits of a given strain or, in some cases, totally unexpected phenotypes that bear saving. The exodus cheese, jack herrer, roadkill skunk and mass super skunk are all just really dank phenos of Skunk #1 (i use this factoid for illustrative purposes... not sure if i'm 100% correct about it)... So... as a grower, you buy a pack of Skunk #1 from a repoutable seed company. Does this mean that you are going to wind up with a pheno as good as the ones I mention above? Maybe if you are extremely lucky... but most likely NOT.

That said, I am going to run a couple of seed plants this year for shits and giggles. Not to mention that I know some serious commercial growers who make new field crosses every year and run the seed from that the following year. Look for the mutant lavender/afghani crosses coming out of northern mendo... And the people running their grows this way do very well... This can partially be attributed to the fact that the seed they are producing becomes more and more acclimated to the specific location/environment its being grown in.

In El Honduragua, our partner showed up to start our gardens with lots of seeds from the states...tomatoes, cukes, greens, etc. People told her that she would be lucky if she got one single tomato from each of the 16 varieties of heirlooms she was starting in a tropical environment. There was some truth to the nay-saying and we did not get a ton of yield that first year, but 5 years down the line we have heirloom tomato seed, saved from only the most successful plants that grows well in the tropics and provides us with a modest but worthwhile harvest.

anyhow... lots of work to do today. peace.

 

[MedResearcher]

Anyone have a suggestion for the best time of day to foliar feed? Last year I sprayed during the sunset, but I was wondering if early morning might be better.


Recently saw some great '09 OD, probably the best '09 I saw to date. The strains were, "Mr Nice," "Elephantea," and "Mendo Purps." All three seemed to do really great.

Anyone run Purple Elephant OD?


Thanks,
Mr^^

 

[theJointedOne]

hey mr,

i like to foilar very early morning around 4 or 5 with my kelp or tea foilars. Its nice to roll a fatty and feed the ladies some well deserved b/fast

that outdoor sounds nice. Some of the best i saw last season (dried and cured) were Afghooey, Sugaree, GOB 9, HighEnd x crackerwreck, Alien Kush, GDP x romulan, Highend x whiterhino, and i saw some amazing f13 but half the plant got PM....and a few more.... oh the cracker jack was also great, thats green crack x jack herrer

 

[Guest423]

with all respect....why arent major seed company genetic represented more in Cali grows?

IE: paradiseseeds, serious seeds, dutch passion.... does anyone besides me, trust these

genetics.....these companys spend lots of money perfecting theyre products to issues,

mold, heat....


to me its a no-brain er, just buy proven seeds from good company, clone.

i couldn't spend thousands in money, labor only to use a homeboy's

attempt a breeding, clone? Am i showing my novice, for only growing proven shit...

kali-mist, superlemonhaze, sensi-star, people go crazy for, here... dont they in cali?

does Cali have better shit than major seed company's? anything by Serious, Paradise i trust yield, quality... Am i right?

To be honest its not just Cali with better genetics but alot of places, I for one don't trust any of the big name seed companies because between me and a group of friends we've ordered 100 strains from various companies and most are borderline bunk mediocre strains.

Alot of thier genetics are watered down from the USA, Skunk #1, G-13,Bubblegum,ect, and now soon to be all the chems,og, bubba, and other kushes. I have quite a few "Homeboys" with gear that blows big seed banks clear out of the water.

The only thing that would interest me from a seed bank these days is some rare landrace genetics that you have to work a bit to find your own gems.

 

[nomaad]

Anyone have a suggestion for the best time of day to foliar feed? Last year I sprayed during the sunset, but I was wondering if early morning might be better.

Early morning or evening are when I do all feeding, foliar and root. Seems to me that the basis for thisa schedule comes from the indoor practice of not spraying the plants while lights are on to avoid burning the plants... but I am not sure that this translates to outdoor exactly.

In an outdoor scenario, I don't think its likely that you will burn your plants by doing a foliar feed in the heat of the day... it is, however, likely that the plants will not be at their best in regards to nutrient uptake in the 104 degree canopy. Therefore, early morning and evening feeds seem to be the way to go.

Can't remember who it was, but last year somebody in the OD threads mentioned giving his plants a nice strain H20 misting in the hottest part of the day when it is too hot for the plant to do anything (including grow?)... I tried it and I think the plants really liked it... so I continued with it throughout the season on the hottest days. I have no hard evidence that it did any good, but it certainly did no harm. For what its worth, it cooled ME down.

 

[baet]

with all respect....why arent major seed company genetic represented more in Cali grows?

IE: paradiseseeds, serious seeds, dutch passion.... does anyone besides me, trust these

genetics.....these companys spend lots of money perfecting theyre products to issues,

mold, heat....


to me its a no-brain er, just buy proven seeds from good company, clone.

i couldn't spend thousands in money, labor only to use a homeboy's

attempt a breeding, clone? Am i showing my novice, for only growing proven shit...

kali-mist, superlemonhaze, sensi-star, people go crazy for, here... dont they in cali?

does Cali have better shit than major seed company's? anything by Serious, Paradise i trust yield, quality... Am i right?

the guy on 2 per site:
im really think this is the alternative path for yield.... i will try 2 per site of 150gal.... i dont have funds of west folk, i have to amend with native soil... economically its better use of resources, maximized use of root space using 2 plants vs hoping 1 can by itself, 50percent better chance of it happening using 2, i calculate. 2.0

when its a commercial crop, and you want proven results of kind bud that has the characteristics you paid for, because you did spend thousands of dollars, growing from seeds is too unreliable. and a lot more unnecessary work, sexing etc...

doesn't starting from a clone, and skipping the whole process of pheno searching, breeding, making a mother and cloning make more sense?

clones i think a lot of us are getting aren't "homeboy" attempts at breeding. ha



last year i did do half my plants from seed because my friend made some seeds. a few of the plants from seed were awesome, a few were lousy...

this year its all clones.

 

[localhero]

I dont think its a clone issue as much as why we dont see commercial grows with greenhouse genetics. or whatever. which is a point i guess. me personally i dont like greenhouse as a company, i dont like colorful seeds and i really dont like femmed seeds. suprise a male! suprise a plant that has hermaphroditic traits! I agree with landrace seeds, but i cant grow a plant for 20 months. I heard stories of old timers trying to grow out landrace tropical sativas in cali. I really wish looking back at the places ive been that i would have snatched up some seeds. smoked some bud in turkey that was florescent green, the greeks thought their kalamata grown herb was the shit, thai herb, indonesia. My girl just came back from jakarta and i really wanted her to bring back some seeds, but i wouldnt place that risk on her. next time im there maybe. but then i remember my buddy whos still in jail or dead over there...

 

[Tom Hill]

LocalHero,

I think a 100 gallon pot spaced 7-8 feet on center (with all other factors being equal) is quite capable of a five pound plant.

Yes, you can use that mix just check the quality of compost especially.

Cali Boss,

I pay less than $8 per bag (1.5cf) for Black Gold where I am at. SunShine organic is about $6 for the same sized bag. I'd use many different things depending on what was available localy. However, when it came to mixing my own from scratch (peat, coco, etc), or ordering bulk by the yard, I'd just make sure not to buy poison, this happens all too often to folks (including myself) looking to save a few bucks. Bone meal (steamed) is my favorite phos/calcium fertilizer to mix into soil.

Bcell,

What you want is a plant that comes in by Oct 1rst, then grow the hell out of it. Folks who live at 50+n could do this though most think they can't, you can do it, just give it a try. Both DC and X18 I would plant if my conditions were shady, but for this type of grow I would use something with a narrower leaf - A clone of a "Dutch" indica would be more appropriate if you have the sun.

TheJointedOne,

I feel ya bruddah. The spring itch is a powerful thing with growers.

CityOfTrees,

Nice camp brother. I make raised beds out of heavy gauged wire fastened together in a circle, then lay in ground cover. I do prefer to leave the bottoms exposed to the ground. Check that compost out first is my rec, many folks get burned, literally, by not doing so. Look into hortonova netting to tie those plants up this year bro, life is too short to spend it tying-up

I like your plan (city spacing etc) and I LOVE that you are making the best of what you have amigo.


Butte,

What can I say man, nothing is better my friend, my brother. See you soon

Hovah2.0,

You can grow anything you like but in my experience about 5% of anything (with VERY few exceptions) from seed is worth smoking, then another fraction of that is suited to giant plants. But yes, by all means, find us some more clones and I will salute you amigo -T

 

[P-NUT]

Hey Tom, do you do anything to prevent termites? Everytime I try for monsters they attract termites and I'm done for. Do you have any strategies for prevention so this problem doesn't occur. I'm in a really wet sub tropical area so I'd love to get some giant sativas but like clockwork come september when the rains get heavy they seem to migrate up to my hills. Suggestions that don't involve poisioning the area would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Tom Hill]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EmN0mFHDH2w&feature=related

Just kidding, but diesel and fire does work well. No poison, hmm. Avoid rice hulls from personal experience. I am doing a notoriously termite infested garden this year and physically removing the termite (subterranean) infested dirt with a tractor for a start, prolly follow this up with seven. A Neem oil drench seems to work fairly well too. I'm sure Hemp Diseases and Pests list a biocontrol or two. -T

 

[Dr. Purpur]

Good Music. My Son just came back from the concert in San Francisco. Jerrys band. They Met some Dead Head Ladies from out of state and spent a couple days with them. Pretty wild. LOL. Good to see you Tom. DP

 

[CityOfTrees530]

TomHill thanks for the feedback I really appreciate it. hortonova netting though? How's this being used on the plant curious on this, is it hung vertical or over? any other major tips you could think of that could help out this season?

How much does 1 yard of soil fill in gallons trying to figure out how much I will need to fill in 6 100 gallon smart pots.

 

[nomaad]

100 gallons= about 15 cu feet or a little more than half a yard.

 

[localhero]

Thanks Tom for the help on spacing! You guys up north are a solid bunch.

City of Trees,

if youre planning 100 gallons pots like i am and also making your pots like Tom does, the useful conversions are:

cylinder volume: 3.14xradius(squared)x height
cubic inches to gallons = 1 cubic inch is .004329 gallons
circumference of a circle = 3.14 x diameter

100 gallon pots will be 3 1/2' diameter and 18 inches in depth. actually 107 gallons.

fencing cut to roughly 24 inches high and 11 feet long, 12 feet with the extra foot overlap to tie together making the bones of the pot.