Earth Juice Users

[FinestKind]

I'm seriously thinking about switching to EJ for my next grow, but I am a bit hesitant, after reading about consistency and "spoiling" problems...

Also, for bubbling the tea, would the aquarium bubbler from my EZ Cloner (which I don't use anymore) be enough, or would I need to get one of those stones?

I've wanted to go organic for some time now, but I'm nervous- someone please talk me into it and tell me it's easier than I think it is

FK

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Making Bubbled EJ Tea

First off you will need good water - city type will probably have chlorine with is VERY BAD for organics due to the fact it kills micro-organisms, water softeners are also VERY BAD as they add salts.

Organic farmers want / need those dudes (bacteria / fungi) in our work to break down nutrients so that the plant can absorb them.

If one has chlorine in there water & user cant find another water source - simply put it in a container & bubble for about a day using a (fish tank type) air pump with air stone to burn off the chlorine.

A better water choice would be to use, spring - creek - pond - rain - well - melted snow - distilled - RO.

Once user has clean / fresh water simply add your water to a container (5 gal bucket) works well, put in nutrients & a sugar source (molasses or catylist) then finally add a small handful of active soil mix. This could be EWC - Compost - Etc.

Most of the time the PH will be VERY acidic around 4 at the beginning - not a good range for using on plant but after a day or so the PH will slowly rise.

After a day or two it will be loaded with good bacteria / fungi & will be ready for application.

The trick for best results is to catch the PH swing when its in the 6.0 to 7.0 range.

PH - EC testing is not a must do but not necessarily a waist of time.

More info on PH ca be found here: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=87730

More info on Teas can be found here: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=110620

* Foam on the tea does not mean theres a problem with it.

* Its better to space out the feeding then to throw in a bunch of items all at one time.



Hydro Organics EJ Thread: http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=12353

 

[STRAINZ]

Seriously, you deleted mine and others' posts? So much for free speech! I thought that u could talk about EJ, in an EJ thread, with EJ users! This is my main beef with this site...it's not reality, it's just edited for what some people want. Well, enojoy your thread TF...hope it don't get lonely!

If this is deleted it really just proves my point!

 

[Tactical Farmer]

It was deleted by a moderator.

Move On.

* Beginners please have some respect for others & keep posts focused. Basically, what im saying is no one that comes to this thread whats to waist there time reading though page after page of (non productive - non informational - personal questions) that can be found all over the forum.

Please take some time reading through the organic library stickies - use the search function - read the info here & if your still unsure, please feel free to ask (whatever question) you may have. I write this because I was not happy with the progression of the thread as it was becoming long with very little helpful info.

 

[loki3xb]

Hello All - It's good to be a member of this site.

I'm a medical marijuana patient and caregiver.

I'm a bit new to this. Right now I'm using the Bio-Canna line (Bio-Vega, Bio-Flores, Bio-Boost, Rhizotonic, Cannazym) and I'm not brewing it, having wonderful results.

As of the last grow I think I want to get a bit more organic so I've been experimenting a bit with guano's and Earth Juice. I have heard nothing but amazing things with the earth juice line and am very excited to be able to give it a go, I have to order my Bio-Canna so this is cheaper.

You don't know how hard it is to not come on here asking, should I use X amount per Gallon as I know this is strain specific and more of an "Art" then set in stone instructions/rates, but some more recipes would be great

I am brewing my EJ and have a few questions and am always open to advice, I have brewed teas before (Guano's and EWC \ Compost Teas) and have also researched the subject quite thoroughly. I'll give my mix below. This is PER GAL.. Please note this is my experimental brew to test EJ, so I'm only doing 2 Gallons, all water was bubbled for a minimum of 6 hours before adding organics (Tap Water)

Mixed in 5 Gallon Bucket.

Fish Tank Air Pump (For a 60 GAL Tank) with 2 air stones

Fish Tank Heater (50w)

2 TBSP EJ Bloom

1 TSP EJ Micro Blast

1 TSP EJ Meta K (0-0-5)

2TSP EJ Catalyst

2-3 TBSP EWC

1 TBSP Organic Molasses

So far that has been brewing/bubbling for almost 24 hours and the PH is only 5.3, and I have not seen very much foam on the top of the brew, when I make a guano tea (10X more if it has Peruvian Seabird in it) I get tons of foam. I'm going to wait the full 24 hours and then if it's still too acidic, I'm going to dump and try a different ratio.

I would prefer not to add PH up or down to my mix, and everything I have read says that bubbling the mix will raise PH.


This is a wonderful thread with great information keep up the good work. Any advice would be great appreciated

 

[Cool Moe]

Hey there loki and welcome. First you'll want to start with a quality organic soil mix, lots of variations are listed in the beginners organics thread in this forum. Be sure to use 2 tbsp of powdered dolomite lime in your soil mix and most growers say you don't have to worry too much about ph issues if growing in a good mix w/ dolomite. I'm a bit new to the art of growing but after much research on this site I decided on a modified version of the EJ program of the 3 Little Birds. It's a long read but worth the time. Here it is copied and pasted it from an old thread on this site:

"Three Little Birds Organic Information

Earth Juice Fertilizers - Recipes and Discussion Thread
the three little_birds are well know for our love of growing using organic fertilizers . . . And while we are always looking for ways to utilize inexpensive and effective materials like manure, alfalfa meal, kelp meal, and a variety of rock powders . . . we also know that some folks will only use organic growing methods if the option is fairly simple and mess free . . . while organic fertilizers from a bottle will never likely be as cost effective as using rock powders and teas made from alfalfa or guano . . . they do offer great convenience and the good news for growers who demand their organic fertilizers in a bottle . . . is that herbs grown exclusively with today’s liquid organic fertilizers will rival those grown with any method of organic growing we’ve ever used or experienced . . . there’s no need to sacrifice quality for convenience if your pocketbook can withstand the additional cost . . . our favorite among premixed liquid fertilizers is the complete line of Earth Juice products . . . we’ve sampled other fertilizers but always come back to Earth Juice . . . In our opinion they are the “premium standard” against which all other organic ferts must measure themselves . . .

The basic line of Earth Juice fertilizers is 5 different products that can all be used in any combination with each other . . . the ability to “mix and match” any of the 5 products gives us the versatility to deal with any nutrient need (or problem) that might arise . . . here’s a listing of Earth Juice array . . .
Earth Juice Grow
Earth Juice Bloom
Earth Juice Catalyst (called Xatalyst in Canada)
Earth Juice Meta-K
Earth Juice Microblast

The Grow and Bloom formulas can be used alone or in combination with each other . . . no big explanation necessary with those names . . . their intended uses are pretty obvious . . . Catalyst is basically a jazzed up Molasses / carbohydrate product to feed beneficial bacteria and act as a chelate . . . Meta-K is an awesome Potassium supplement . . . and Microblast is one of the most useful and effective micronutrient products we’ve had the pleasure of using . . . in our next post we’ll give a more formal introduction to the various components of the EJ line of ferts . . .

Meet the EJ lineup
here’s the “scoop” . . . the “tech intell” . . . the “lowdown” . . . the “skinny” . . . on what exactly is in those Earth Juice ferts that the 3LB’s talk about so much . . .

EARTH JUICE GROW 2-1-1
bat guano
kelp
sulfate of potash
feather meal
oat bran
blood meal
steamed bone meal
this is the “jack of all trades” among the Earth Juice products . . . useful throughout all of vegging and the first couple weeks of vegging . . . Depending on a plant’s growth stage and we use the EJ Grow at concentrations of anywhere from 1 TBSP to 2 TBSP per gallon (and we have pushed it to 3 to 4 TBSP without harm for very heavy feeders)

EARTH JUICE BLOOM 0-3-1
bat guano
seabird guano
kelp
sulfate of potash
steamed bone meal
oat bran
rock phosphate
we love our Earth Juice Bloom as a flowering fertilizer and. . . because this product has no Nitrogen it’s especially useful for late stage flowering when it’s desirable to let a plant use up the soil’s nitrogen reserves . . . and for an added boost of Phosphorous at those times when plant’s need an extra boost of P . . . we normally use EJ Bloom at rates between ½ and 2 TBSP per gallon . . .

EARTH JUICE CATALYST
oat bran
kelp
wheat malt
molasses
yeast
For some odd reason, the Canadian Government requires this product to be labeled as “Xatalyst” . . . but whatever it’s called where you live . . . if you’ve looked over the “Molasses Manual” by the 3LB you may already know the biggest “secret” to this product . . . the sweet sticky goodness of molasses . . . as we’ve said elsewhere molasses feeds microbes and acts as a chelating agent to make micronutrients more available to plants . . . those extra organic goodies in Catalyst like wheat malt and oat bran are just “icing on the cake” . . .

Earth Juice Meta-K 0-0-10
sulfate of potash
pretty simple product with apparently only a single active ingredient . . . it does have a good measure of Sulfur . . . and it’s very useful to give an extra boost of Potassium when necessary . . . Many organic fertilizers run a little “lean” on K - especially guano based products . . . and EJ Meta-K gives us a way to add that needed Potassium in controlled amounts as needed . . .

Earth Juice Microblast
kelp meal
magnesium sulfate
borax
cobalt sulfate
ferrous sulfate
manganese sulfate
sodium molybdate
zinc sulfate
the Microblast tests out to the following percentages . . . Magnesium (Mg) .05%, Boron (B) .02%, Cobalt (Co) .0005%, Iron (Fe) .10%, Manganese (Mn) .05%, Molybdenum (Mo) .0005%, Zinc (Zn) .05% . . . in our experience it’s a great all around micronutrient supplement that resolves almost every potential micronutrient issue likely to arise . . .
there's your "Earth Juice All Stars" lineup . . .

Earth Juice Recipes

Growth Recipes
we get many PM’s and email requests for our Earth Juice recipes . . . many folks - it seems - would love for us to just spell out the specific nutrient mixes and quantities we use with every feeding . . . . if only life were so simple!
What and how much we use vary's some from strain to strain . . . Perhaps even from plant to plant . . . so it’s just not possible to set a schedule and ignore the plants . . . The best gardeners become “at one” with their plants and feed them according to the plant’s needs . . . even anticipating their needs . . .
our standard mix for vegging plants is usually
1 to 2 TBSP Grow
1 tsp Bloom
1 tsp Catalyst (called Xatalyst in Canada for some odd reason)
(all ingredients are added to a gallon of water . . . )

there are times where we might increase the Bloom portion up to as much as a tablespoon . . . Especially for plants in the early stages of flowering . . . and we can go as high as 3 or even 4 TBSP of Grow for really N hungry plants - but if we increase the Grow fert above 2 TBSP per gallon we usually leave out Bloom & Catalyst )

we also use what we call our "microblast mix" once or twice during the normal life-cycle of vegging plants . . . no big difference between this and the prior mix except this one has an extra boost of Meta K and Microblast . . .
1-2 TBSP Grow
1 tsp Bloom
1 tsp Catalyst
1 tsp Meta-K
1 tsp Microblast

as folks may have observed in our “Growing LUI with the 3LB” thread . . . we also commonly use some kinds of fish fertilizers and kelp concentrates during a plant’s early growth stages . . . we like the combination of enzymes and proteins and hormones the fish and kelp provide together . . . but it’s common for some fish products to be high in heavy metal contaminants like Mercury . . . so the “seafood platter” is a treat we feed our babes and the Earth Juice is their regular diet . . .

Flowering Recipes

early stage flowering plants can often use a fair measure of nitrogen as they stretch . . . so a normal Earth Juice mix in early flowering will look pretty similar to a Grow mix . . . we like to use something along the lines of the following for the first couple weeks of flowering . . .
1 TBSP EJ Grow
1 TBSP EJ Bloom
1 tsp Catalyst (yeah we know - it’s Xatalyst north of a line from Seattle - Duluth - Niagra!)

as flowering progresses we forego the Nitrogen to let our plants use N reserves from the soil as they finish flowering . . . so mixing an Earth Juice Bloom formula can be as easy as . . .
1 TBSP EJ Bloom
1 tsp EJ Catalyst

for really hungry darlings we’ll go as high as 2 TBSP per gallon with the EJ Bloom . . . but pouring it on that heavy can burn light feeders . . . and even with heavy feeders it’s better to build up to stronger concentrations of EJ Bloom over time than to just start in at 2 TBSP per gallon right away as plants begin to flower. . .

and we also have a bloom "micro-mix" that includes Meta-K and Microblast . . . it's used once in a blooming plant's life (or maybe twice in plant’s with a long flowering) . . . Like the growth “microblast mix” it gives an extra boost of Potassium and assorted micronutrients to make sure the plants will want for nothing!
The flowering micro-mix usually goes like this . . .

1 TBSP Bloom
1 tsp Catalyst
1 tsp Meta-K
1 tsp Microblast

that's about all there is to making an awsome plant-enriching organic brew with Earth Juice . . . it's really that simple . . .

Miscellaneous Earth Juice Notes
In theory there’s no need to “flush” organic soil grown herbs before harvest . . . and because organic fertilizers are not salt based like chemical fertilizers . . . traditional techniques for “flushing” wouldn’t carry away nutrient salts in the traditional meaning of the word “flush” anyway . . .
That creates a danger with organic fertilizers that doesn’t exist with salt based chemical fertilizers . . . with salt fertilizers over-fertilizing can be pretty severe . .. But it will show up fairly quickly . . . and the solution (a good flushing) can be enacted pretty quickly too . . .

it’s probably harder for a grower to over-fertilize using organic fertilizers . . . but if they do there’s no quick solution . . . organic fertilizers usually can’t be flushed away like salt fertilizer’s can . . . so if a grower over-fertilizes they will likely have to live with the consequences for a longer term . . .

And when it comes to harvest time . . . we do go ahead and put our organic herbs on a “crash” diet . . . in the past it’s just been pure water for the last two weeks . . . But lately we’ve been experimenting with using Fulvic Acid with the watering during the second week before harvest . . . and then plain water the final week . . . this technique really seems to bring out the fullest potential of our babes . . . but the wonders of Humic Acid and Fulvic Acid are deserving of their own thread . . .

And finally . . . before we finish our initial discussion of Earth Juice Fertilizers . . . we need to touch on the practice of premixing and bubbling Earth Juice fertilizers . . . we get a lot of questions on this topic in private so may as well discuss it here and avoid having to type the same information time and time again . . .

This is the most common question we hear . . .
“Is it absolutely necessary to pre-mix and bubble / aerate Earth Juice fertilizers before use ? ? ?“
Our simple answer is no it’s not necessary at all . . . but Earth Juice will be more efficiently and effectively used if “brewed” for 24-48 hours before use . . . in organic farming the old adage is “feed the soil not the plant” . . . and making your Earth Juice fert mix into an aerated tea maximizes the benefits it can provide for your plants . . . but they will work fine if used without any premixing or bubbling . . .
we would also like to add that if you do not care to go to the bother of premixing and aerating your Earth Juice . . . that you use the fertilizers in smaller / lighter proportions . . .

We also hear this question a lot . . .
“What about the low pH of those Earth Juice fertilizers? - Will that low pH harm my plants?”
And our simple answer is that there’s likely little concern about that issue unless your growing medium is already abnormally acidic . . . but we can also say that the pre-mixing and bubbling/aerating we talked about in the prior question will moderate the pH to an extent . . . and that can allow heavier feedings overall . . .

Our experience with Earth Juice in everything from 3 gallon pots to 30 gallon beds indoors is that a good soil mix with a healthy microbe population will moderate it’s own pH to an extent . . . and the calcite and dolomite lime use commonly in soil mixes will do some of the work as well . . . so we’ve never had any actual problems with pH in our Earth Juice experience . . .

And finally we also get asked . . .
“Can I get by with just Bloom and Grow and not have to go to the expense of the other products?”
And the simple answer is yes of course you can. Catalyst is a molasses based product so the substitution of cheap and easily available Blackstrap molasses will be almost as good as the real thing. . . And although we prefer to use Microblast and Meta-K a few times during a plant’s life . . . we’ve certainly had great grows without them . . .
Not having those extra ingredients available will make your life much more difficult if something does go wrong . . . having a sufficient source of Potassium is a major factor in a plant’s ability to withstand the heat stresses inherent in many grow rooms . . . and micronutrient deficiencies can be hard to diagnose and treat without a “full range” micronutrient fertilizer like Microblast . . . Maxicrop kelp concentrate is the only other substitute we know of that’s as effective at treating a shortage of potassium and trace minerals . . . and many growers prefer to avoid using kelp products during the later stages of flowering . . ."



In my case I regularly bubble Grow and/or Bloom along with earthworm castings and blackstrap molasses, so I skip the Catalyst. I use greensand in my soil mix so I skip the Meta K. I use Microblast as recommended once during veg (twice during long veg). Also I read a nute study by I think jmansweed and I use hygrozyme every 2nd or 3rd feeding. Otherwise I try to follow the 3 LB's program. My first real harvest with good soil mix and correct nutrient program is coming up in 8-10 weeks, all my plants are in early flower and look perfect and happy as can be. I hope to post some pics soon. Good luck to you!

 

[Tactical Farmer]

loki - First off welcome to the site & thread. Commend you for taking the time to research.

You are correct - when starting organics there are alot of things one should study up on, going through the organic library threads will make you a better grower & human being.

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=131002

If you can start a compost pile / pit / indoor container - that would be a good place to start.

I like to add dry ferts to my (homemade compost grow media mix) so that is has a wide range of nutrient diversity.

That way it can run on auto pilot & just give it shots of whatever the leaves tell me it needs & an occasional funky tea concoction.

Some studying in the infirmary section & real world experience is the way to do that.

Watching for tip burn is a way to tell if you over did it.

Another helpful tip in the beginning is once you got your soil mix made up - take a cup of it & mix with a cup of RO type water (low ppm / ec) - soak them together for around 24hrs, screen out the solids & do a PH & EC test of the fluid.

If your under PH of 6 then you should add more lime - if your over PH of 7 then more peatmoss is in order.

OR

If you dont want to change the mix then feed your teas more acidic / alkaline depending on your reading.

An occasional test of the runoff water using (RO type water) will tell ya how the grow medium is looking.

Now thats just a method & it adds time but its just something I learned in the beginning.

Once you get (dialed in) you wont really need to worry much about PH.

* So I cant really help you with a schedule but to help with your current tea - if its still at 5 after 24hrs then let it go longer & it should continue to rise.

Im gonna open a can of night crawlers here & ask whats your EC level ?

Ill talk abit about organic EC / PPM here soon.

 

[loki3xb]

Hello All-

Thanks for the very quick replies.

I'm not sure if I want to get that involved just yet to start making my own soils. At the moment I'm using Fox Farm Ocean Forest (FFOF), not sure how I feel about it. I'm either thinking mixing Happy Frog and FFOF together, or moving to Amazon Bloom Soil (An EJ product). If anybody has experience with the Amazon Bloom Soil, let me know..
As for the PH experiment I was conducting, the Milwaukee PH51 PH pen I was using went bonkers, so im not sure if it ever gave an accurate read. I went out an purchased a Eco Tester PH 2 Pen and that seems to work a lot better, so I'm going to be running the experiment over again.
Tactical Farmer - I don't have any means of testing EC, but I could test PPM for you. I'm really thinking of investing in a RO system, is this a worthwhile investment?, and which one could you recommend. I've also read that when using RO water, you have to supplement a bit more such as CAL/MAG, if this is true and you use RO water, how do you go about this problem?
Cool Moe- I've read that post by the 3LB, that's where I got a good portion of my info from, May I suggest also reading this amazing fertilizer comparison study done by "jmansweed"

Http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=148879

 

[Cool Moe]

Thanks for that link Loki, I had read that comparison nute study and have blended the results w/ the 3LB, along with input from others. I use Earth Juice grow, bloom and microblast according to 3LB's recommendations with variations based on strain. I use hygrozyme every 3rd watering based on the jmansweed study. I use worm casting/blackstrap molasses bubbled tea every watering based on recommendations from jaykush and burnone. And I use LC's soil mix but with organic soil instead of peat and add powdered dolomite, greensand, azomite, crushed oyster shells and crushed biochar to the soil mix, all at 2 tbsp per gallon. 16 Plants were put outdoors at 26N on 3/1 and of 10 that have turned I've got 8 females. So far they are perfect, healthy and seem to want for nothing but more sun.

 

[Tactical Farmer]

loki - without a doubt if your wanting things to run as smooth as humanly possible & have top quality product then a RO system & a good meter is a must & will pay you back in no time.

RO = http://www.abundantflowwater.com/html/aquarium_filters.html

Got the (standard RO/DI) first one on the top of the page & its filters will last a LONG time.

Meter = http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=47565

The Hanna combo (PH - EC - PPM - Temp) is a nice unit - can be found alot cheaper if you look around, ebay might be a good place to look.

RO water kinda has its time & place for use, comes in handy when testing soil mix, testing runoff water, foliar sprays, final few waterings but not really for watering start to finish as it will strip you of micro nutrients & cal / mag.

You will need to look at your main water source quality & go from there.

One should look at PH & PPM of it & make decisions based off of the reading when feeding.

Example: If your PPM is like 400ish (which would be considered pretty hard) that means you probably got ALOT of cal & micro nutrients & could cut that with RO to lower your PPM levels which will allow you to feed with more NPK without overloading the soil.

Gotta crash out - got alot to do tomorrow.

 

[loki3xb]

Okay Ladies and Gents, I ran the Tea experiment over and could use a bit of help.

Here is the experiment.

I'm trying to brew a EJ Tea that has a PH of around 6.8, I have come to the conclusion that brewing/bubbling the tea does raise the PH it's just a matter of how long it needs to brew..

March 10, 2010 - I placed 2 GAL of Tap water (PH 7.4)with 4 TBSP of Earth Worm Castings into a 5 GAL buckets and started bubbling, I let bubble for 13 hours.

March 11, 2010 @ 11AM I added my EJ products to 13 hour bubbled water.
(This is per 2 GAL)
2 TSP of MircoBlast
2 TSP of Meta K
2 TBSP of Bloom
2 TBSP of Catalyst
2 TBSP of Earth Worm Casting
1 TBSP of Black Strap Molasses

I then checked the PH every few hours. Here are a few times

March 11, 15:53 PH -4.7

March 11, 22:40 PH -5.2

That went on overnight and then this morning..

March 12, 11:40 PH -7.6

This Tea has only been brewing/bubbling for less then 12 Hours and is already over the Optimal PH of 6.8 for soil..

Any advice would be much appreciated as I would love to start using EJ products to feed my GIRLS....

PS I added 2 TSP of Jamaican Bat Guano, after I read the PH this morning to see if maybe that would drop it down to a more exceptable level, but to no avail.

 

[Cool Moe]

can't help you bro, I put powdered dolomite lime in my soil mix along with oyster shells and charcoal which all serve to stabilize the PH. Never once tested the PH and no problems here. According to the tea experts guano works best as a top dress, should not go in your tea.

 

[loki3xb]

can't help you bro, I put powdered dolomite lime in my soil mix along with oyster shells and charcoal which all serve to stabilize the PH. Never once tested the PH and no problems here. According to the tea experts guano works best as a top dress, should not go in your tea.

I didn't know that about the guano's... I'm trying to figure out the amount of time to brew the tea, once that's figured out, I'm sure ill never check the PH again, Unless its something weird..

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Good job with the time test loki - It can be pretty frustrating messing with PH organically if your the type of person with a touch of OCD like many of us are.

You could put alot of effort into getting your tea right at 6.(whatever) but in the short time it takes it to go from the top of the container to the bottom the runoff might be 5.(whatever) or 7.(whatever) when it comes out the bottom as runoff.

I think the runoff PH is a FAR more important thing to keep track of than the feeding PH.

Same applies to the runoff EC / PPM levels.

The most accurate way to test your grow medium is:

1. Water with RO type water (very low ppm) till you get some coming out the bottom of container.

2. Dispose of that & wait like an hour for it to marinade.

3. Water again with low ppm till you get a few cups worth of runoff water.

4. PH / PPM test that & it will show you the mediums current situation.
________________________________________________________________

Guano is acidic but does not have a quick PH lowering ability in teas.

If your tea is over PH 7 & you wish to lower it quickly - add a small amount of grow or bloom & it will instantly lower its PH.
____________________________________________________________

Your 7.6 PH tea might have been just fine to go in depending on your mediums current PH situation ?

 

[jmansweed]

Hey hey guys!

I've been checking in on this thread lately - one of the best around in regards to us Earth Juicers. Thanks Tact for putting it together.

I've been growing with "The Juice" for years now and spent crazy money buying nutes in an attempt to beat them out. To no avail. To this day, I have simply not found another organic, soluble fertilizer to even match - specifically in terms of final product. I'm convinced the ingredients are superior, specifically the included Blood Meal and Bone Meal. These items are standout ingredients. (I need not mention some of the best guanos available)

I recently finished an all organic soil test. It was an attempt to find a "plug and play" soil type mix, one that requires water only. An interesting result was the enhanced flavor and odor when additional Blood meal and/or Bone meal was added into the blend. I have developed a mix I think is appropriate to include in my next study - which will include 6 cycles:

Botonicare
Green Mountain Organics
Roots Organics
Humbolt Nutrients
Age Old Organics
My Plug and Play soil mix - water throughout veg and flower

These will run in addition to my usual EJ fed plants - so really 7 cycles I suppose. In any case, EJ's fantastic stuff.

I've noticed an overtone of a dangerous trap here on this thread, however. I say that with all due respect. But this talk of pH has to be put into context. Remember that ultimately we are relying on a living system to feed our plants. This is exactly why EJ is so effective. It develops such a rich microbial world that pH is never an issue - and certainly one we should not try to alter.

Consider why the pH rises in your tea's in the first place. Simply put - it's life. The bacterial blooms create higher pH environments. So naturally your teas rise. This is why EJ is so effective in acidic, fungal rich mediums. It strikes a balance the plant loves, and more importantly - one indicative to microbial life.

Only monitor pH if an issue occurs. Even then, pH adjusting the solution is not the answer. Adjusting the microbial life is the real solution. Consider also, that your higher pH tea's probably have not developed rich fungi life, which can take some time, and Myco requires roots to work with to really thrive. So your medium interaction is where the deciding factors of pH occur - not in your tea.

My point is, in my experiences the best grows I've had included not one shred of concern for pH and I recommend the same for every one of you. The most important factor in regards to Earth Juice applications and plant absorption is a HEALTHY WATER SUPPLY. Beyond insuring the pH of your water supply and it's general mineral content are solid - it should not be considered again.

As long as the water is good and microbial life can live, the nutrients will work excellent. I absolutely have had the best luck with well water. From Boston to San Fran, well water suitable for drinking seems to blend the best.

I've recommended adjusting pH under severe water conditions and even recently wasted 6 months with a new grower mulling over pH until we finally ignored it - and things finally began to grow. If your having issues try a different, balanced water source and watch EJ work it's wonders.

Even when issues occur you'll better control them with some trail and error, and some solid journal keeping. EJ takes a few grows to dial in - hell, I'm still working at it. Thats whats so damn nice about organics, the learning never stops..........

Thanks again Tact, look forward to reading more...............

Peace.......Jman

 

[loki3xb]

Tactical Farmer - A "touch" of OCD is the best way to say it... I was thinking that if I made sure the Tea was a nice PH (6.8ish) the soil would remain consistent, considering I'm using FFOF (not saying its the best, but it's not junk) I did test the runoff water (not how you suggested) after a feeding with the new PH pen and it was around 5ish (Can't remember) but it was low.

Which brings me to another question. After reading what you said about the PH of the mix isn't as important as the PH of the runoff. if the PH in the soil is off, let say it's 5, would you give it a more alkaline mix of so say 8, to bring the soil up to a more "optimal" level, or is that not how it works?

I feel the problems that I'm having with my girls are due to giving a few teas that the PH was way off, therefore screwing with the PH of the soil in tern causing nutrient lockout.

The last post was a lot closer to the answer I was looking for. Thank you for putting up with my "stupid" questions...

 

[Tactical Farmer]

I was thinking that if I made sure the Tea was a nice PH (6.8ish) the soil would remain consistent.

* Thats not the case - just yesterday I got my dusty meter out, fed at PH 5.7 / PPM 620 came out the bottom 2 min later @ PH 6.3 / PPM 2245.

Which brings me to another question. After reading what you said about the PH of the mix isn't as important as the PH of the runoff.

* PH of the TEA isn't as important as PH runoff.

if the PH in the soil is off, let say it's 5, would you give it a more alkaline mix of so say 8, to bring the soil up to a more "optimal" level, or is that not how it works?

* If your meters correct & your at PH 5 then you def want to get it up to the mid 6's. Your correct a tea at PH 8 would be a good way to start working at bringing it up. Dont be surprised if it still comes out at 5ish, its hard to get things adjusted once the medium get out of range. You should have added dolomite lime which helps combat acidic teas & such.

I feel the problems that I'm having with my girls are due to giving a few teas that the PH was way off, therefore screwing with the PH of the soil in tern causing nutrient lockout.

* It could be & not enough lime.

The last post was a lot closer to the answer I was looking for. Thank you for putting up with my "stupid" questions...

* I have yet to see a stupid question from ya fella, think were making progress with the thread for you & others

_____________________________________________________

Jman - Great info, im too tired to comment right now but ill be back tomorrow.

The great PH organic debate..

 

[loki3xb]

Jmansweed - I'm very glad you popped in. I would just like to say amazing thread on the nutrient comparison study. I can see why you would think there is an overtone of a "Dangerous Trap" here.

Like I said a few posts up, I've been using Bio-Canna but not brewing it with wonderful results, but I would love to start this Earth Juice. Bio Canna is expensive, I have to ship it from the West Coast. Well I digress, everything I've read about the EJ says BREW it and always a few lines below there is talk of PH, that's the only reason I've been making an issue of the PH.

The Bio-Canna I measure out, dump into my jug, full with water from a PUR filter and away I go, never bothering to check the PH(Wonderful Results).

I understand the bacteria and fungus thing. Having a good colony of both helps to regulate PH, feed the plant and prevent disease to name a few. I also understand that both the Bio-Canna and the Earth Juice relay on this concept to work well.

I'm just trying to ask as many questions as I can, you know in the pursuit of knowledge..

 

[jmansweed]

loki3xb,

I've made the mistake myself, even in my study, of putting the words to close together. Ph and Earthjuice - or pH and organics. We just need to keep in mind brewing a tea is simply speeding only a part of the process up. There are aspects to pH regulatory systems in the medium. Soil life will eventually balance itself out.

I love Bio-Canna, fantastic nutes, but you pay for them indeed. The concept of simply mixing your nutes and applying them is perfectly applicable to EJ also. In fact, the majority of my applications have been mixed 10 minutes before applying - with a pH of like 4.5 no doubt. I don't really know or care. What I do know is the bacteria will bloom, and the fungi will react - in a tea, or in the soil. Then my plants grow vigorously, and that is what is important.

I won't deny I've monitored pH under organic conditions, but more from the perspective of an observer rather than in an attempt to control it.

I think allot of Earth Juicers attempt to follow a standard schedule and encounter problems. It is a wonderful line of nutes but really requires a few cycles and specific applications dependent on water and the medium. The major issue I find is many growers feed primarily bacteria in organic growing, ultimately leading to higher pH environments. With EJ specifically, it's important to establish a heavily fungi population going into flowering.

When you get the post numbers Loki feel free to pm me with questions, it can take a bit, but I'd be happy to help out where I can...........

Jman

Thanks for checking out my thread - much appreciated

 

[Tactical Farmer]

Im not really seeing a dangerous trap or any thing like that ? Hope my data doesnt get newer users freaking out, just throwing out ideas for people to think about to save them possible headaches & potential disasters.

When I made the Bubbing EJ Tea post on the previous page & got into the touchy PH subject I said:

PH - EC testing is not a must do but not necessarily a waist of time.

In the beginning of my growing adventure I had alot of problems with my medium being alkaline in the mid 7's using 2tbs gal of dolomite per gal of medium, combined with with hard well water that was over 7. On top of that I was watering my compost with the alkaline well water throughout the year.

(Looking back on it later) My first couple grows (without a meter) sucked. Believe the problems were some PH lockout (with medium in mids 7's right off the bat) which led to over feeding (because nutes were not being absorbed quickly) that caused nute lockout because they looked hungry & I keep feeding . Caused alot of stress to me which nearly caused me to give it up.

But after getting a meter & finding the problem, things worked alot better. Cut back on the lime, cut the well water with RO & used rain water or sometimes creek or pond water. Added some more peat to the compost, which got my compost in the mid 6's before the plants hit it. Things have been problem free ever since, without some testing with meters dont think things would have turned around as nicely as they did. Now that the bugs are worked out - its smooth sailing. Certain combos of water & medium are just to much for bacteria & fungi to handle in some cases.

Putting my past experiences out there before I forget about my old growing pains to help those few out there with those (certain combos) that dont play well together.

Every time I type the letters PH - I feel the need to add a disclaimer, but I definitely feel its bad advice when one says throw away your meter to a new organic grower, just because it works for most doesn't mean it works for all.

Im pretty sure that if I wasnt one of those unlucky ones before - I would be here saying throw away your meter like alot of the others.

Disclaimer: Plants will grow fine organically with medium in the 5's or 7's for a limited time but (not entire grow cycle).