Republicans and marijuana

[MarquisBlack]

I gotta read the last page one more time...

I love this fucking country.

 

[~fvk~]

The Constitution was meant to stop all this. All men are created evil, is the part they left out, and given absolute domain seem to destroy each other. I don't know that we ever move past the "State Of Nature" as smart as we think we are it always seems to be a dog eat dog in the end.

Some may think that this is tragic commentary, but here is where I would challenge that. We all know that good lies within us too. In the cycle of things good eventually trumps evil. This site and these people pull together to fight one small faction of the what has come out of Washington since the 1920's.

I love what this country was founded for. The spirit of it, anyway. Freedom of belief.

We have been sold that we are entitled as Americans. That we are supposed to have the keys and drive the world and that we could have everything forever.

That is not freedom. George Washington was well aware of the threat that massive standing Army's were to the Republic.

Why has mentality been lost? Because the Constitution has been lost. That's what made us different. We have, slowly over time, been sold as slaves in true American greedy fashion. But, the ugly truth is nothing is free.

I've learned in life that it is often the hardest things that give you the best outcomes. We are only human. Life was never meant to be easy, but you get up each day and bind together to survive. One day at time if need be.

Greed is like America's cancer. You never think it will get you until it shows up at your doorstep and then it puts everything into perspective.

Great post dude, I see that chart and I see a blank piece of shit that represents nothing.

While we may still be subject to our primitive instincts and physical limitations, our intelligence has vastly evolved, enabling us to advance considerably as a civilization. This intelligence has granted us the utility to override the natural urge of these primitive instincts. The way I see it is, to act as if humans are not able to recognize a universal concept of right and wrong, which is in fact a product of our intelligence, is an insult to our intelligence. I am not one to believe that in order to maintain our existence, that we must kill and rob each other over personal ideologies and other Capitalist fabrications such as currency (I believe that currency should represent goods and services, not means to production that can be monopolized on) and “private property”. I mean seriously, how can you just buy an entire region of humans? The problem is, after being subjected to servitude after primitive hunter gatherer societies, we have been conditioned to believe that this is the only way of life in which we can exist. While I am a Communist, I am also an Individualist, and a Panarchist in the sense that I believe that various forms of Libertarian societies could coexist with each other, on the basis of Mutuality between Federations. To each their own, within their own society, as long as the society should agree to it. I believe this would be somewhat similar to checks and balances? People who would commit crimes against the human intelligence would also do so under the status quo, please refer to my first post to get an overall idea on Anarchism.

We must acknowledge each other and accept each others’ right to exist and pursue our own personal interpretations of liberty, equality, and prosperity in order for this to work. Let’s break the cycle this time, no more Feudalism, please.

~fvk~!! Just read your posts. EXCELLENT. Got me all fired up, starting the day off right today.

Glad you enjoyed the posts, brother.

Don't get me wrong, I was delighted to read the post and I'm more of a democrat than I am a republican. It was just loooooooooooong and I wanted to say something

Glad to hear it, you would have done Thoreau proud. Self-representation is the ultimate expression of Individuality.

I gotta read the last page one more time...

I love this fucking country.

Don't forget, this conversation has been made possible by Gypsy (and I think the Dutch?). If these servers were hosted in the US, a lot of us would probably be well on our way to Guantanamo II.

 

[Unsane]

kvg

don't you think anarchist discourse is disempowering? you've got the theory down but praxis is invested in the material realities and potentialities of political action.

im curious, whether you're the kind of anarchist who disavows any involvement in the "legitimate" political process (i.e., refuses to vote).

i don't mean this is in any derogatory way. i just happen to think that the belief in anarchist theory is compatible with a strategy that involves itself in the political process.

hence, i support democrats. i see them as a blunt tool to stave off neo-conservatism. of course, there is still the neo-liberal element, but im optimistic that bit by bit the democratic party will disavow its cancerous Clintonism

 

[~fvk~]

kvg


im curious, whether you're the kind of anarchist who disavows any involvement in the "legitimate" political process (i.e., refuses to vote).

i don't mean this is in any derogatory way. i just happen to think that the belief in anarchist theory is compatible with a strategy that involves itself in the political process.

hence, i support democrats. i see them as a blunt tool to stave off neo-conservatism. of course, there is still the neo-liberal element, but im optimistic that bit by bit the democratic party will disavow its cancerous Clintonism

You caught me. No, I don't vote, I see it as pointless. The way things are, there are no political candidates that I can honestly
say represent my interests in any way, shape or form, and I think lot of other American are going to agree with this. Maybe if Jello Biafra had a chance, but there's always the risk of political corruption, and he's a member of the Green Party, a Party that isn't sleeping with the Corporate State. So in other words, no chance in hell.

You would be a Democratic Socialist, like Orwell. I have no hope in a system that can equate to misrepresentation of any number of people, and I do not support any Statist candidates in any way, whatsoever. Also, it would not be fair to impose our personal ideologies on others, that is known as tyranny.

We are in a cycle that will not break until we liberate ourselves from the illusion of the box the State confines us in.

Don't be afraid of real change. Start representing yourself.

 

[SpasticGramps]

While I am a Communist,

Great post man. It's good to see people digging inside themselves to try and find what makes them tick. If we do not understand the individual how will we ever set up a successful form of collective government.

Here is a heads up for all the self proclaimed Democrats and Republicans who are glued to the two sided narrative being pumped out of Washington to put you to sleep.

When you have a hard academic Conservative and a hard academic Communist agreeing that we are all shit out of luck, there should red lights and sirens going off in your head.

I'm not quite sure what I am at this point. I know the spirit of freedom, the Constitution, and the Republic is what made Americans in the beginning. We are anything, but Americans at this junction in history. That died along with the Constitution.

Given the circumstances I feel compelled to revisit my entire political philosophy. I need to clean my ears of this pseduo-American ideology that's been crammed inside.

One more graph.

Y'all remember what happened when the ARM's reset in 2007-2008. That was pretty bad, right? Here are the ones resetting this year and next.

Here is what is really going to bum you out. All this casino gambling in the residential market has taken place in the commercial sector too. Almost all commercial building were refinanced between 2005-2008.

Those loans will begin defaulting in 2010-2015. That will be nail in the coffin. Kiss those shopping malls and high-rises goodbye.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

sorry to get off the subject

sorry to get off the subject

This guy is running for US Senate. If you sell good mj in IL, you might want to know what this House representative was up to in 2009:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kush_%28cannabis%29

Congressman Mark Kirk, a Republican member of the House of Representatives from Illinois, introduced legislation to increase the penalties for selling kush.[5] The High-Potency Marijuana Sentencing Enhancement Act of 2009 (H.R. 2848)[6] increases the penalties for the possession with intent to distribute, manufacture, importation and exportation to maximum fines of $1 million for an individual and $5 million for a group, with a maximum sentence of 25 years from the standard sentencing for marijuana which calls for a maximum fine of $250,000 for an individual, $1 million for a group and up to five years in prison.[7] Kirk said that as kush may sell for up to $600 (USD) per ounce these increases are justified, saying that "if you can make as much money selling pot as cocaine, you should face the same penalties." [7]

http://kirk.house.gov/index.php?opt...=75:fighting-crime-and-illegal-drugs&Itemid=1

Cracking Down on Drug Trafficking

Share Link:

To toughen penalties for dealers of a new type of “super-marijuana” hitting the northern suburbs Congressman Kirk introduced H.R. 2828, the High-Potency Marijuana Sentencing Enhancement Act of 2009. “Kush,” street slang for a strain of highly-potent marijuana contains twice as much tretrahydrocannabinol (THC) as the average seized marijuana in 2007 and five times as much as in the early 1990s.


According to the National Survey on Drug Use and Health, more than 25 million individuals ages 12 and older used marijuana in 2007. This figure is significantly more than any other drug on the market. In 2005, the United States Department of Justice approximated that 74 percent of eighth graders, 65 percent of tenth graders and 58 percent of twelfth graders surveyed were at “great risk” of smoking marijuana. Local law enforcement reports that Kush users are ‘zombie-like’ because of the extreme THC levels.
This legislation increases federal fines to $1 million for an individual, $5 million for a group and sentences up to 25 years for the trafficking of high-potency marijuana, marijuana containing 15 percent or more of tretrahydrocannabinol (THC).

Higher fines and longer sentences aren’t the total solution to our nation’s drug problem. But our laws should keep pace with advances in the strength and cash-value of high-THC marijuana. If you can make as much money selling pot as cocaine, you should face the same penalties.
Back to Fighting Crime and Illegal Drugs Home Page

 

[SpasticGramps]

Vote out the whole lot of them lol. Bunch of fucking ninnies.

 

[~fvk~]

Great post man. It's good to see people digging inside themselves to try and find what makes them tick. If we do not understand the individual how will we ever set up a successful form of collective government.

Here is a heads up for all the self proclaimed Democrats and Republicans who are glued to the two sided narrative being pumped out of Washington to put you to sleep.

When you have a hard academic Conservative and a hard academic Communist agreeing that we are all shit out of luck, there should red lights and sirens going off in your head.

I'm not quite sure what I am at this point. I know the spirit of freedom, the Constitution, and the Republic is what made Americans in the beginning. We are anything, but Americans at this junction in history. That died along with the Constitution.

Given the circumstances I feel compelled to revisit my entire political philosophy. I need to clean my ears of this pseduo-American ideology that's been crammed inside.

This. You’re a brilliant dude.

Many people want to participate in various types of societies, mostly based on their personal ideologies. Some people see Capitalism as cannibalistic in nature, and some view it, when laissez faire, as the best economical system, ever. One government can not serve us all, and when we grant authority to those who would seek to represent us, we also give them the potential to misrepresent us and abuse their authority, as all humans have a self-serving nature. Both drastic Direct Democracies and Representative Democracies are the ultimate path to tyranny, there needs to be a balance between the two, and that is exactly why I’m a Libertarian-Collectivist. I don’t think that the restoration of the Constitution is legitimately possible anymore, I agree that we have drastically shifted from the ideologies that this nation was founded on, but sadly, there will always be the potential for the revival of the status quo, and that’s partially why I have no faith in a Representative Democracy that leads to nothing but regression.

They want us to be Centralized? Let’s split, under the basis of a couple general concepts of wrong! Let us learn to be tolerant of one another, and try to set an example for the rest of the World. Nobody should ever be forced into doing something that goes against their personal beliefs, if they are within reason. We’ll obviously still need some form of a military, but it should only exist on the basis of Mutuality, between the volunteers and society. I think that for true Liberty, not this deception of one, you’ll find plenty of people willing to fight for it, and die for it. We just need to leave the World the fuck alone for awhile, while we sort out all of our corrupt politicians and try to get this to work again, with the People representing themselves in order to achieve it. We need to be reasonable, before World War III is initiated against us. And hell, if things did fall into a state of chaos, it’s a victory for the Anarchists, because revolution is chaos, but Anarchy is Order.

I’d suggest you’d look into Agorism and Counter Economics; it’s one way of fighting back against the oppression of the State and its fiat currency in our economic status quo.

This guy is running for US Senate. If you sell good mj in IL, you might want to know what this House representative was up to in 2009:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kush_%28cannabis%29

http://kirk.house.gov/index.php?opt...=75:fighting-crime-and-illegal-drugs&Itemid=1

What's this got to do with the price of life in China/America?

Ha, just kidding, and honestly, I think you're a pretty smart dude that's just been mislead.

But seriously, if we represented ourselves, foolish fools would not be an issue.






Communism has become such an ugly term, but I want to bring recognition to others that it’s not what it’s made out to be. Marx exploited Communism/Libertarian Socialism/Social Anarchism by basing his philosophy on the results of the Paris Commune, and turned it into a perverse Authoratarian/Totalitarian Dictatorship. The Hippies were foolish for embracing Marxist philosophy, when they should have been focusing on Libertarianism.

 

[Unsane]

I would disagree that the "Hippies" embraced Marxism. The germ of the "Hippie" movement was undoubtedly anarcho-socialist. The SF Diggers who "initiated" the 60s counter-culture exploded onto the scene with an ethos of mutuality and volunteerism and even provided a quasi-alternative to capitalist institutions such as money and property.

But, although the Diggers were clearly anarchists and revolutionary in intent, one could argue that they were doomed to fail from the very beginning. The earth from which they sought to sprout their psychedelic solidarity was poisoned by capitalism from the the start. Enmeshed in the totalizing force of capitalism, the "revolutionary" activities of the Diggers became psuedo-activities. Sapped of their revolutionary and political effect, their "happenings" became diversions and mere entertainment. The mass mediated culture industry, seeing a lucrative opportunity, appropriated the Diggers for the ends of capital, and thus the brand of the "Hippie" was born.

In the end, their way of life, their ethos, and their political ideas were transmogrified into commodities, to be bought and sold, and to ultimately be consumed, digested, and excreted as bumper stickers with vacuous slogans (Peace and Love!) and novelty items (Nang Champa, beads, etc.)

Given their fate, what of ours? How does one resist when one's resistance can be Incorporated and then deflected back?

We can throw our punches but Capitalism still remains the Judo Master!

 

[~fvk~]

I would disagree that the "Hippies" embraced Marxism. The germ of the "Hippie" movement was undoubtedly anarcho-socialist. The SF Diggers who "initiated" the 60s counter-culture exploded onto the scene with an ethos of mutuality and volunteerism and even provided a quasi-alternative to capitalist institutions such as money and property.

But, although the Diggers were clearly anarchists and revolutionary in intent, one could argue that they were doomed to fail from the very beginning. The earth from which they sought to sprout their psychedelic solidarity was poisoned by capitalism from the the start. Enmeshed in the totalizing force of capitalism, the "revolutionary" activities of the Diggers became psuedo-activities. Sapped of their revolutionary and political effect, their "happenings" became diversions and mere entertainment. The mass mediated culture industry, seeing a lucrative opportunity, appropriated the Diggers for the ends of capital, and thus the brand of the "Hippie" was born.

In the end, their way of life, their ethos, and their political ideas were transmogrified into commodities, to be bought and sold, and to ultimately be consumed, digested, and excreted as bumper stickers with vacuous slogans (Peace and Love!) and novelty items (Nang Champa, beads, etc.)

Given their fate, what of ours? How does one resist when one's resistance can be Incorporated and then deflected back?

We can throw our punches but Capitalism still remains the Judo Master!

When I said Hippie, I mostly meant the Weather Underground, who were not Social Anarchists in any way.

And this is why there needs to be a divide. Capitalism exploits you and leaves you with no choice but to participate in it. Just because the Hippies turned into a bunch of Fascists doesn't mean Anarchists did, just like when the Anarchists rejected Marx. End of story.

Capitalism has conditioned you to believe that it's the only way of life in which we can "succeed."

 

[~fvk~]

Sapped of their revolutionary and political effect, their "happenings" became diversions and mere entertainment. The mass mediated culture industry, seeing a lucrative opportunity, appropriated the Diggers for the ends of capital, and thus the brand of the "Hippie" was born.

Lol, dude, Anarchists don't acknowledge political effect by external representation, quit trolling.

 

[~fvk~]

I would disagree that the "Hippies" embraced Marxism. The germ of the "Hippie" movement was undoubtedly anarcho-socialist. The SF Diggers who "initiated" the 60s counter-culture exploded onto the scene with an ethos of mutuality and volunteerism and even provided a quasi-alternative to capitalist institutions such as money and property.

But, although the Diggers were clearly anarchists and revolutionary in intent, one could argue that they were doomed to fail from the very beginning. The earth from which they sought to sprout their psychedelic solidarity was poisoned by capitalism from the the start. Enmeshed in the totalizing force of capitalism, the "revolutionary" activities of the Diggers became psuedo-activities. Sapped of their revolutionary and political effect, their "happenings" became diversions and mere entertainment. The mass mediated culture industry, seeing a lucrative opportunity, appropriated the Diggers for the ends of capital, and thus the brand of the "Hippie" was born.

In the end, their way of life, their ethos, and their political ideas were transmogrified into commodities, to be bought and sold, and to ultimately be consumed, digested, and excreted as bumper stickers with vacuous slogans (Peace and Love!) and novelty items (Nang Champa, beads, etc.)

Given their fate, what of ours? How does one resist when one's resistance can be Incorporated and then deflected back?

We can throw our punches but Capitalism still remains the Judo Master!

By the way, what do you do, read Wikipedia? I read books by people who were there and lived through the shit. You are trolling for the State, bro/sis.

 

[~fvk~]

Like Spastic said, when you have a true Conservative and a true Democrat agreeing that both their parties are fucked, red siren People, red siren.


I have to ask anyone reading this thread, to PLEASE answer this. Do you believe that I love my country?

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I have no doubt that you love your country, unless you really hate your country, because those who are in the middle rarely have that level of commitment.

I ask you, fvk...is there a modern day society that you could point us to that would back up your vision? A tried and true way of life that we can all emulate and be more successful than what our charter guarantees us?
Also, should we be thinking of upheaval, or perhaps getting back to basics?
I happen to be in the camp that feels the latter is needed, and highly obtainable. Some seem to have given up....(shrug)

 

[arcticsun]

strange color blue; http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4TINW4xNuh0

 

[SpasticGramps]

We need to be reasonable, before World War III is initiated against us. And hell, if things did fall into a state of chaos, it’s a victory for the Anarchists, because revolution is chaos, but Anarchy is Order.

Well spoken my friend. Only when we break out of the Washington narrative that's been played in our schools, universities, and media culture will we able to make any sort of real progress towards real freedom.

For 100+ years we've been indoctrinated into a system of arrogance, greed, and warfare that was rationalized as "American Exceptionalism". Well, we are not exceptional at all. We are just as corrupt as any other human being can be on this planet.

Me included. I was right there at the head of the pack. I was a major part of the problem. We produce nothing, consume everything, and go to war with people who dare cross our paths as we eat the world. I guess the only reason I'm able to see it so clearly now is because I was raised overseas and didn't move back to the states until I was 18.

That's when I caught the disease. The credit disease, the entitlement disease, the "I need all of this material shit" disease. Foreigners looking at us see atomized families and an alienated lonely people. Look at our heroes now for fuck's sake. Micheal Jackson, American Idol, celebrity, and selfishness. The government made all of our lives easy in exchange for our freedom and the government that gives you everything can take it all away. We have lived under the illusion of prosperity for too long and that's all it was, an illusion.

And that party is about be over because when we go down we will take everyone with us for a little while. The international players will recover as the big US money moves overseas to consume the rest of the world. We will be left alone to pick up the pieces of our apathy and complacency and ponder, "How could all this happen?"

I'm sorry if I sound disparaging to Americans. I love what this country stood for. I despise what it has become. We live in a Corporate/Government controlled politically correct illusion and it's like that dream where you are falling and you wake up just before you hit the ground and go SPLAT.

 

[SpasticGramps]

In case anyone is wondering how nation states become indoctrinated. This is nothing new. Plato and Aristotle struggled with Mimesis (Basically social culture and dogma relayed through art(media) such that the truth is lost.) Propagating the status quo through art.

From Wiki, but it gives a good description of how humans have struggled with this for eons. We are not the first to be bamboozled and we will not be the last.

Both Plato and Aristotle saw in mimesis (Greek μίμησις) the representation of nature. Plato wrote about mimesis in both Ion and The Republic (Books II, III and X). In Ion, he states that poetry is the art of divine madness, or inspiration. Because of the poet being subject to this divine madness, it is not his function to convey the truth. As Plato has it, truth is the concern of the philosopher only. As culture in those days did not consist in the solitary reading of books, but in the listening to performances, the recitals of orators (and poets), or the acting out by classical actors of tragedy, Plato maintained in his critique that theatre was not sufficient in conveying the truth. He was concerned that actors or orators were thus able to persuade an audience by rhetoric rather than by telling the truth.

In Book II of The Republic, Plato describes Socrates' dialogue with his pupils. Socrates warns we should not seriously regard poetry as being capable of attaining the truth and that we who listen to poetry should be on our guard against its seductions, since the poet has no place in our idea of God.

In developing this in Book X, Plato tells of Socrates' metaphor of the three beds: one bed exists as an idea made by God (the Platonic ideal); one is made by the carpenter, in imitation of God's idea; one is made by the artist in imitation of the carpenter's.

So the artist's bed is twice removed from the truth. The copiers only touch on a small part of things as they really are, where a bed may appear differently from various points of view, looked at obliquely or directly, or differently again in a mirror. So painters or poets, though they may paint or describe a carpenter or any other maker of things, know nothing of the carpenter's (the craftsman's) art, and though the better painters or poets they are, the more faithfully their works of art will resemble the reality of the carpenter making a bed, nonetheless the imitators will still not attain the truth (of God's creation).

The poets, beginning with Homer, far from improving and educating humanity, do not possess the knowledge of craftsmen and are mere imitators who copy again and again images of virtue and rhapsodise about them, but never reach the truth in the way the superior philosophers do.

 

[sandawg]

Conservatism is about personal freedom. Today's conservatism is Christian Progressiveism IMO. God knows better instead of the government. Different packaging, same result.

Conservatism is not about personal freedom at all. Actually, "conservatism" is all about maintaining the "status quo." That is why it is "conservative." American conservatives are typically heard shouting about preserving the Constitution. Supreme Court Justice Scalia, one of the most conservative Supreme Court justices in history, is all about "Constitutional interpretation." He believes everything should be interpreted according to what the Framers intended back in 1789. That is just a BS excuse to keep power and wealth concentrated. If you don't get this, I'm not going to be able to make you get it.

I heard a doctor on the news a month or so ago say, "Instead of prescribing five or six other medications, I can just prescribe marijuana for a terminally ill cancer patient." But the threat to Big Pharma isn't why American conservatives are against MMJ.

The fact that Republicans either try or smoke more marijuana more than Democrats, assuming it is true, just shows their hypocrisy which is making me sick.

This was my OP. The bottom line is that THIS IS NOW A PARTISAN ISSUE. So I don't care if Republicans are smoking or not, they are OPPOSING DISPENSARIES. It is BS. Republican District Attorneys are raiding dispensaries all over SoCal. When Bush was President, they were DEFENDING FEDERAL LAW. Now they are interpreting state law in an insanely strict manner. No matter what you think, these are Republicans.

What no one has mentioned is the atrocity in New Jersey. There, conservatives told themselves they better push an MMJ bill through the legislature before a ballot initiative like California's is passed. This way, with conservatives writing the bill, basically only terminally ill people can get an MMJ recommendation.

Conservatives are enemies of marijuana, legally, I don't care how much they smoke in the closet.

 

[sandawg]

If you've never met a pot smoking republican it's either because you weren't looking in the right places or you look like a whacked out grateful dead following, avatar reading, living in the common unwashed marxist! hippie.

I'm actually a lawyer, but thanks for just reinforcing what I already thought of people like you

 

[hoosierdaddy]

Conservatives are enemies of marijuana, legally, I don't care how much they smoke in the closet.

This is nothing more than your opinion, and you have nothing to back it up with. You making the blanket statement and blaming "conservatives" is nothing more than your ignorance and unfounded rage.
I suggest you take a look and see who is on the side of "big pharma" these days. Hint..it will be the group who is also beholding to the "trial lawyers" and their money.

Your perception, nothing more.