Republicans and marijuana

[fdish]

Ron Paul

Ron Paul

Ron Paul comes to mind. I saw a lot of young folks voting to see him get in the white-house against all odds. Some of these people I would have guessed were Democrats. I try not not to judge by looking at them. That is what they did to us when we were young. The way I see it is about half are red and half are blue. Many from each group either uses weed now or have in the past. When it comes to voting people vote where they agree with more issues. Which ever side you vote for there are probably some issues you don't agree with. Both sides are way behind the marijuana laws in my eyes. I write to politicians from both sides and sometimes they return my letters. If everyone who ever smoked weed took the time to write their politicians I think the issue would be resolved quicker. Lets work together on ending this prohibition.
Peace

 

[SpasticGramps]

While a looming national debt is a problem, claiming that is brokers economic slavery by the Chinese is unlikely. China is a production nation. The United States is a consumption nation. Economically, we are dependent upon each other. Our current economic crisis is affecting the Chinese as we speak. They recently put regulations in place to prevent a bubble-effect in their own economy.

Possibly the greatest achievement of Richard Nixon was his opening of a trade dialog with the the Chinese. In my previous post, I explained how commerce eventually brings peace using France and the United Kingdom as an example.

You are right that our economies are go hand in hand. One cannot survive without the other, for the time being. China has always had imperial intentions.

Mao championed for China to run the world. The philosophy derives from China's Dynasty Era governance with a divine king. Government replaced religion with the coming of Mao, but I would heavily caution against believing that imperial domination is not their final objective. We are deffinetly moving into a bi-polar world configuration with China and the US sitting at the top.

Theoretically this should be the most stable global situation because each country is scared to death of total annihilation. Think the Cold War (it's debatable that this was a true bi-polar configuration). If we move into a muli-polar configuration with lots of alliances, you can expect world war. While every theory is debatable, most scholars agree that this model has yet to fail.

As much as we would like to believe, humans and the world have changed very little IMO. We are still instinctive animals driven by primitive passions.

An equal China and US could stabilize things considerably. Good post.

 

[ColBatGuano]

If everyone who ever smoked weed took the time to write their politicians I think the issue would be resolved quicker. Lets work together on ending this prohibition.
Peace

Agreed.

 

[SpasticGramps]

Lets work together on ending this prohibition.

 

[ColBatGuano]

I would prefer if the prohibition issue were wrapped into a larger issue regarding personal responsibility and individual liberty. I think the splintering of the "medical" and "recreational" use camps has damaged the cause. This should never have happened. Using compassion as a thinly-veiled precursor to legalization is the wrong way, and almost intellectually dishonest. It would be better to drive home the idea that our nation wastes far too much money and resource to prohibit something which is not a threat.

 

[Rednick]

Rob Corry, jr???


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-Qv_nq3uw4&feature=video_response

 

[ColBatGuano]

HAHAHA! I don't know what that has to do with this discussion, but I love seeing any loudmouth punk get his ass kicked. Stupid ass bitch!

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Conservative talker Michael Savage

Conservative talker Michael Savage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mW4RKiVUzSI&feature=related

He says mj is the most dangerous drug because it's a gateway drug. He even infers it'll drive you liberal...worse than mad!

Then like-minded callers reiterate his Reefer Madness mentality. Savage even says his warnings are proven. He even suggests you can spot a pot smoker with excess facial hair and/or acne. A doctor caller compares it to LSD and Savage says it rots culture.

Personal views

Michael Savage calls himself an "independent-minded individualist" and says that he "fits no stereotype."[36] Savage criticizes "big government", homosexuality and activism on some issues, and Liberalism, accuses the media of liberal bias, and champions environmentalism and animal rights.[7] He has said that there are three aspects that define a nation: borders, language, and culture. He founded the Paul Revere Society in 1996 with his son Russell to protest illegal immigration; he says the group's mission is to "bring together Americans who actively seek to take back our borders, our language, and our traditional culture from the Liberal left corroding our great nation."[37][dead link] In 1998, the organization had approximately 4,000 members.[38] The organization's annual information return, form 990, for 2004 reported that 62% ($109,413 out of $178,215) of its expenses were for fundraising activities.[39] On June 5, 2006, the IRS rescinded the tax-exempt status of The Paul Revere Society.[40]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michael_Savage_(commentator)#Shift_in_philosophy

 

[ColBatGuano]

Savage is a dope. His hoo-hah only works on people who have no powers of discernment. Nice link, kinda made me pine for these good old days: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o4ISmhwE1aY&feature=related

Not to mention this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dxPQ1-KsBG0&feature=related

I'm so glad James Randi is still with us.

 

[MarquisBlack]

I'm not entirely sure you understand what fascism is. Fascism no longer exists anywhere. The word is a widely misused and misunderstood epithet.

Well then, explain to me how I misused it then, or at the very least give us your definition. America as it stands today very much resembles a fascist nation. The creeping fascism was more apparent under the Bush administration, but not much has changed.

Corporatist economy? Check. Using war as a means to renew said nation during downturns? Check.

Was the rest of your post directed at me? Because it seems as though you are trying to make me answer for the "right". Not quite sure what to make of it.

 

[DiscoBiscuit]

Well I have a different take on this. I think (since I have 3 kids of adult age) that I have to prioritize. The accelerating obama debt, socialist agenda and his march towards less freedoms are FAR more important to me then smoking a joint.

Looks like 90% of O's debt is actually W's, according to CBO.
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/78061-dems-pin-cbo-numbers-on-bush-and-gop

"90 percent of the projected deficit is due to the cost of the Bush economic collapse and Bush policies like his unpaid for tax cuts for the wealthy," said House Democratic Caucus Chairman John Larson (Conn.), the fourth-ranking member of the House. "The devastating fiscal hole he left us in was far worse than anyone could have imagined."

That comment might have come from the left but the report came from CBO.

To deal with budget deficits, President Barack Obama and congressional Democrats are considering a number of options to rein in federal spending. The Obama administration announced a freeze in non-military discretionary spending on Monday evening to kick off that effort, and the administration will release its full budget next week.

This was a drop in bucket because we have roughly $14 out of $100 after military, entitlements and interest on the debt are paid. We have to start somewhere though.

On the congressional end, leaders have urged passing statutory PAYGO legislation, which would require new spending to be offset by cuts or taxes. Obama has also endorsed legislation to establish a bipartisan deficit reduction commission, though the Senate voted that down on Tuesday.

The opposition killed the RDC and PAYGO only had bi-partisan agreement until O signed on in support.

To those who vote based on whether or not your candidate wants to make pot legal as your main issue, you are pathetic to say the least with all the other freedoms you are losing at the moment.
This mental attitude will get you high but in-debt you as a slave to the government for life. If you think that pot is most important, then you are a moron to say the least.

With all our demanding problems, I can understand your feelings that mj reform isn't necessarily a main issue. Would you mind revealing our lost freedoms, I assume since about 13 months ago?

 

[ColBatGuano]

Well then, explain to me how I misused it then, or at the very least give us your definition. America as it stands today very much resembles a fascist nation. The creeping fascism was more apparent under the Bush administration, but not much has changed.

Corporatist economy? Check. Using war as a means to renew said nation during downturns? Check.

Was the rest of your post directed at me? Because it seems as though you are trying to make me answer for the "right". Not quite sure what to make of it.

Actually, I was giving you the benefit of the doubt that you don't actually believe either the Democrats or Republicans are intentionally, or systematically leading us towards fascism. The term fascism is, from a scholarly perspective, very broad and widely misunderstood. There are many facets to it, and several historic interpretations of it (Italy, Germany, Spain, etc.) Nations don't quietly slip into fascism, nor do they remain there long. They dive into it with broad popular support, and are either beaten out of it or cast it off as undesireable. It is the rule of the majority which will bring about such a thing--not either political party. People have been arguing that America has been slipping towards fascism since Woodrow Wilson was president, and yet it hasn't happened. The Constitution still counts, the rule of law still applies, and the state does not yet control the media (clearly.) I don't see eugenics or forced abortion being championed. I don't see a denouncement of capitalism, or egalitarianism, or autonomy. I don't see evidence of a thug caste, or a gulag system. There is no evidence of domestic spying or harassment of citizens groups. Immigrants are hardly discouraged. Legislative power is still in the hands of the legislature. The list goes on and on. If it is true that America is becoming fascist, it sure is taking its time.

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I feel persecuted living where I live. I try to temper my comments on religious institutions if you can believe that. You are entitled to your beliefs. Religious persecution caused this country to be founded. It's a contentious issue. The Constitution was created to free the mind. That's the spirit of it.

First off, I think you misunderstand what happened in history. The US did not separate itself from England because of religious persecution, but rather because of persecution from the State, which happened to be controlled by the Church of England at that time. It was statist doctrine that was objected to, not the teachings of the Christian bible. The founders cherished that document as well as the ones they crafted. Even the secular of the group recognized the importance and relevance of the Bible.
IMO, it has to be your personal experiences that has made you so venomous towards anything religious (or perhaps just Christian?)

Those are a fools words. Academics don't matter? TV does. A sheep indeed. I don't have the mental energy to argue this with you. You clearly lack the capacity to debate this in an intelligent way.

See, you are sounding like the ignorant left with that sort of talk.
See, you have your own definition of conservatism, and it is NOT stated verbatim the way you do ANYWHERE. Now get a fucking grip and realize that your mean talk doesn't phase me in the least, I happen to Know what I am talking about, and you must be guessing.

As far as the books you need to start reading. You need to start with what the founding fathers read and work your way up from there....

And that's just the very start.

You working off a media produced philosophy buddy. To think this stuff has no importance today is the reason why this country is in the shitter.

Your kind of thinking is part of the problem. You are fool to question my patriotism and love of freedom.

See, you turned vile. I did not question your patriotism or you love of freedom. Just where did I do that?
You are just way out there, I suppose...and you are sounding like the liberals too...as they always try to put words in others mouths that weren't said.

And you don't need to tell me what to read, pal. I bet I have read at least all the documents you have read.
The whole issue was about your interpretation of what a conservative is...and if you think there is a classic textbook definition that you have a good grasp on, they you are obviously a fucking loon. There are a hundred different shades of conservatism. Educate yourself grandpa.

I am a believer in a strict adherence to the Constitution. You are preaching your shit to the choir.
I suggest you either read closer, or find your medicine.

 

[dubwise]

@ColBatGuano-Although I certainly don't agree with Dr. Savage's angle on mj...he is very well versed in holistic medicine. His work on Alzheimer’s and his book Healing Children Naturally are excellent and very eye opening. I will admit that the man can be very brash and abrasive and as stated earlier, I don't agree with his position on mj...one can come to the conclusion that his all encompassing, weed leads to this & that would certainly pertain to some. It would be a gateway to some....but obviously not all. I'd hardly think the man is a dope. He has many accolades to his credit and he is very well versed in many topics. Please just don't listen to a sound bite and take it for anything more....my local station will play a sound bite at one in the afternoon (savage screaming at somebody) and so most people think he's an angry guy who is always yelling...when it's just not the case. For the record...I quit listening to talk radio and watching the news just over a year ago, because (to me) it does not matter one bit...nothing has changed, nothing will change....it's the haves v/ the have not’s. I urge anyone (who cares) to listen for one month and then tell me the man is a dope….now Beck, he’s a dope and O’Reilly, he’s a dope too….and Hannity….he’s a dope as well.

 

[MarquisBlack]

The Constitution still counts, the rule of law still applies, and the state does not yet control the media (clearly.) I do see eugenics or forced abortion being championed. I don't see a denouncement of capitalism, or egalitarianism, or autonomy. I don't see evidence of a thug caste, or a gulag system. There is no evidence of domestic spying or harassment of citizens groups. Immigrants are hardly discouraged. Legislative power is still in the hands of the legislature. The list goes on and on. If it is true that America is becoming fascist, it sure is taking its time.

Domestic spying? Have you head of the Patriot Act?

Harassment of citizen groups? 9/11 truthers and "Constitutionalists" as well as "End the Fed-ers" are being targeted as homegrown "terrorists" as we speak.

You don't see capitalism being denounced?

No Gulag system? You're right in that we are not systematically exterminating prisoners in such a way, but we have a private prison industry springing up that involves forced labor. These private prisons are usually designed with non-violent drug-offenders in mind. People who are clearly "subversive", in their inability to follow the social-norm pertaining to drugs.

About half of what you said has merit to it, the other half makes me wonder if we live in the same country.

Perhaps you're just repeating what you've heard? Or maybe I am?

The dissimilarities between America and our idea of a "fascist state" are only skin-deep. It's becoming more and more apparent that the end result is eerily similar.

 

[ColBatGuano]

@ColBatGuano-Although I certainly don't agree with Dr. Savage's angle on mj...he is very well versed in holistic medicine. His work on Alzheimer’s and his book Healing Children Naturally are excellent and very eye opening.

Holistic medicine is unfounded, unscientific, unproven flim-flam. If "Dr." Savage would like to prove himself, I recommend he take up the $1,000,000 challenge from the James Randi Educational Foundation.

 

[xfargox]

The dissimilarities between America and our idea of a "fascist state" are only skin-deep. It's becoming more and more apparent that the end result is eerily similar.

I think the notion that republicans are fascist is as ridiculous as the notion that democrats like Obama are communist or socialist.

Lincoln suspended habeas corpus during the Civil War, and the constitution was again ignored in WWII with the internment camps.

The whole necessary and proper clause and the clear and present danger thing kind of is a bit...scary. I agree. But when a nation's at war, and we're still at war, the government's top focus is safety.

Do I agree with the Patriot Act? I think it's the worst thing to come out of the Bush Administration (I don't like the DHS either). However, I wouldn't call it fascist just yet. If this Act is still around in 10-20 years, then yeah, start pulling out your copies of 1984.

 

[ColBatGuano]

Domestic spying? Have you head of the Patriot Act?

There is no evidence that the PATRIOT act is being used for widespread arbitrary domestic spying. Given the widespread availability of communications technology in the US, the government, which can't seem to do anything right, could never do it if they wanted to. Knowledge and information, as well as technology being in the hands of citizens prevents this. China is growing ever more incapable of keeping its citizens down. North Korea can do it, because its citizens don't have shit.

Harassment of citizen groups? 9/11 truthers and "Constitutionalists" as well as "End the Fed-ers" are being targeted as homegrown "terrorists" as we speak.

9/11 truthers are completely deluded nut-jobs, and even if I believed they were being targeted as you say, I'd be with the government on this one. I've never heard of "Constitutionalists" being systematically taken into custody, stripped of their rights and property, re-educated, and forced to denounce their evil ways. It just doesn't happen. Occasionally you get some overzealous bureaucrat in the FBI who think they should come knocking, but its not like you've got the President or his cabinet members pointing and ordering raids.

You don't see capitalism being denounced?

No, certainly not. Where's that idea coming from.

No Gulag system? You're right in that we are not systematically exterminating prisoners in such a way, but we have a private prison industry springing up that involves forced labor. These private prisons are usually designed with non-violent drug-offenders in mind. People who are clearly "subversive", in their inability to follow the social-norm pertaining to drugs.

Private prisons, prison labor, and locking up drug offenders hardly qualifies as a gulag system. Drugs have been illegal in the United States for a long time. If enough people--you know, "We the People"--decide to change that, and the government continues to put them in prison, then I'll admit that we have a gulag system. It is not enough to make the claim when a gulag system is clearly designed to re-educate political dissidents. Some gang-banger busted with a kilo of crack, or a meth lab operator getting locked up in jail is not the same. I don't consider that political dissention.

I do agree that prison labor is something that needs to be openly debated and considered--but I HIGHLY doubt you will find a sympathetic majority on it. Much like you don't find a very sympathetic, as least vocally so, majority regarding drug offenders being locked up.

It isn't that I think your concerns don't have intellectual merit enough to be debated, I just think they are a little overblown. The Reichstag Fire and the 9/11 attacks were similar in their impact, but George Bush didn't become supreme commander, and we didn't grant him legislative power as a result. That DID happen in Germany, and the result was, well we know what happened.

 

[MarquisBlack]

There is no evidence that the PATRIOT act is being used for widespread arbitrary domestic spying. Given the widespread availability of communications technology in the US, the government, which can't seem to do anything right, could never do it if they wanted to. Knowledge and information, as well as technology being in the hands of citizens prevents this. China is growing ever more incapable of keeping its citizens down. North Korea can do it, because its citizens don't have shit.

9/11 truthers are completely deluded nut-jobs, and even if I believed they were being targeted as you say, I'd be with the government on this one. I've never heard of "Constitutionalists" being systematically taken into custody, stripped of their rights and property, re-educated, and forced to denounce their evil ways. It just doesn't happen. Occasionally you get some overzealous bureaucrat in the FBI who think they should come knocking, but its not like you've got the President or his cabinet members pointing and ordering raids.

No, certainly not. Where's that idea coming from.

Private prisons, prison labor, and locking up drug offenders hardly qualifies as a gulag system. Drugs have been illegal in the United States for a long time. If enough people--you know, "We the People"--decide to change that, and the government continues to put them in prison, then I'll admit that we have a gulag system. It is not enough to make the claim when a gulag system is clearly designed to re-educate political dissidents. Some gang-banger busted with a kilo of crack, or a meth lab operator getting locked up in jail is not the same. I don't consider that political dissention.

I do agree that prison labor is something that needs to be openly debated and considered--but I HIGHLY doubt you will find a sympathetic majority on it. Much like you don't find a very sympathetic, as least vocally so, majority regarding drug offenders being locked up.

It isn't that I think your concerns don't have intellectual merit enough to be debated, I just think they are a little overblown. The Reichstag Fire and the 9/11 attacks were similar in their impact, but George Bush didn't become supreme commander, and we didn't grant him legislative power as a result. That DID happen in Germany, and the result was, well we know what happened.

Hey man, I never said we were overtly fascist, I only suggested that when we are complacent, the similarities pop up. I don't understand what in my initial post was worth targeting, especially seeing as you responded as though I were a staunch defender of Republicans.

I think we don't disagree, rather, I think you've read of how "Fascist" is one of the most over-used, misunderstood terms of the last 50 years or so, and decided to "school me".

As for 9/11 truthers and Constitutionalists being targeted, I never made mention of secret arrests. Read the MIAC report if you're interested, it's more pertaining to the militias, and I understand the Gov't's concern, but it shows you where I'm coming from.

http://www.scribd.com/doc/13290698/...vementMissouri-MIAC-Strategic-Report-20Feb09-

9/11 truthers as a group have been a target once-again for recent media hit-pieces. (See: Glenn Beck) No matter what you might think of "truthers" they are just American citizens, some of them might be nutters, but most of them are just like you and me, and despite what the Media says on the matter, their numbers are growing.

Peace.

 

[ColBatGuano]

Hey man, I never said we were overtly fascist, I only suggested that when we are complacent, the similarities pop up. I don't understand what in my initial post was worth targeting, especially seeing as you responded as though I were a staunch defender of Republicans.

You were clearly not a staunch defender of Republicans. I'm not a staunch defender of Democrats. All I meant by that is contained in this anecdote below:

I had to study fascism in college (in the mid-90's,) because I had an Italian history prof who was, for obvious reasons, into the topic. (The prof was Italian--the class wasn't Italian history.) At first, it made me think that America was, indeed, becoming increasingly fascist. Then, when the other students started saying as much, he was quick to smack-us-down intellectually. He strongly disagreed, and went on for a class or two explaining the differences. Part of his lessons included the notion of fascism being a defunct concept, and how the rule of law in America prevents it. He went on and on about how people don't really understand what the word actually means, how it was applied to a broad and opposing set of ideologies, and that is why I consider it an epithet today. It is also why I take the position I take now.

It is why I said "I'm not entirely sure if . . .," rather than, "You don't understand . . .." I wasn't making an absolute statement, or a personal attack. Your post was a set of inflammatory statements presented as fact, and I wanted you to elaborate is all. I have a distaste for talking points and slogans.