Noob Questions about preparing Coco.

[GrowerGoneWild]

I've got a few noob questions about using coco.

-Rinse and Repeat.

I've seen time and time again that coco needs to be conditioned or rinsed before use, should the rinse be something as simple as filtered tap water? Or should I rinse, with ph corrected water?

-Bugs and other pests.

There seems to be some concerns about coco holding pests or other eggs. Should I wet the coco and "cook" it prior to use? At least make some attempt to sterilize it?

-Cutting the coco with perlite or vermiculite.

I've read a few threads in where they cut the coco with perilite, what about vermiculite?. Either way I'm looking at adding either to the coco. So far there seems to be some evidence that coco with 30% perlite, increases yield 12%.

-Pretreating for beneficial bacterias.

I was thinking of wetting the coco down with a mixture of water and molasses and adding beneficial bacterias prior to potting. Is this a bad or good idea?

I was thinking of using a salt based nute + compost teas. I'm not sure if the salt based nute will destroy the beneficial bacterias.

 

[scurred]

I've seen time and time again that coco needs to be conditioned or rinsed before use, should the rinse be something as simple as filtered tap water? Or should I rinse, with ph corrected water?

Not sure if you need to rinse it...I know you should probably soak it prior to use to make sure it is moist enough to plant in. The first time you water it, it will take a little more since it is mostly dry. So soaking it prior to use is a good idea. Not sure if you need to repeatedly rinse (clean) it. ALWAYS use pH corrected water. The medium will change pH to whatever you water it with, wash it with, anything, so ALWAYS use pH'd water.

There seems to be some concerns about coco holding pests or other eggs. Should I wet the coco and "cook" it prior to use? At least make some attempt to sterilize it?

I seem to remember reading something someone said on here about the bricks of coco being dehydrated which would get rid of that sort of thing.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Not sure if you need to rinse it...I know you should probably soak it prior to use to make sure it is moist enough to plant in. The first time you water it, it will take a little more since it is mostly dry. So soaking it prior to use is a good idea. Not sure if you need to repeatedly rinse (clean) it. ALWAYS use pH corrected water. The medium will change pH to whatever you water it with, wash it with, anything, so ALWAYS use pH'd water.


I seem to remember reading something someone said on here about the bricks of coco being dehydrated which would get rid of that sort of thing.

You sound uncertian about your own advice.

Let me ask you this.. how _exactly_ do you treat coco?.. what brand do you use?..

I'm not totally new to coco, either, I messed around with the compressed bricks many years ago. Grew some veggies with it.

I'm gonna do a 4KW grow, I need some solid & experienced info.

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

I just prepared some coco, heres what I did:

I took a five gallon pot, filled it up with coco, placed it in my sink and used the hose spray to completely fill the pots and drain with hot tap water 3 times over. Then I make a high nuted mix (H&G Coco products, 10 mls A+B each, little drip clean, some epsom, and the bud xl otherwise known as pk13-14) and run that through at regular water temperature. Then I make my normal nute mix (normal is dependant on the application...clones, transplant, etc) and run that through 2 times over making sure that is correctly ph'd. Example: I just transplanted a clone into a bigger pot and I made my mix at 5 mls A+B, dash of drip clean and 1/4 teaspoon epsom. The last two times I run my mix through I make sure the ph is at 5.8.

Again, all the water is tap water and when I say I run a mix through it means 1 gallon. I know this sounds wayyy excessive, but my plants don't have issues anymore. I planted clones straight into coco from the bag and they went haywire from potassium and other nutrient deficiencies. Now they're green and lovely and the growth is insane.

Good luck!!

 

[PistilPete]

My method-
-Soak bricks in warm tap water for about 15 min - 1 gallon per brick.
-Break/ fluff up the coco.
-Spray down with tap water until runoff is clear - i never get it completely clear, just more clear than brown.
-Squeeze out excess water.
-Soak the coco with a solution of about 10ml/gal of Cal/Mag with R/O water. Let it sit for a few minutes.
-Squeeze out excess water.
-Add about 25-30% rinsed perlite.
-Add plants.

Good luck. Stay safe.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

I just prepared some coco, heres what I did:

I took a five gallon pot, filled it up with coco, placed it in my sink and used the hose spray to completely fill the pots and drain with hot tap water 3 times over. Then I make a high nuted mix (H&G Coco products, 10 mls A+B each, little drip clean, some epsom, and the bud xl otherwise known as pk13-14) and run that through at regular water temperature. Then I make my normal nute mix (normal is dependant on the application...clones, transplant, etc) and run that through 2 times over making sure that is correctly ph'd. Example: I just transplanted a clone into a bigger pot and I made my mix at 5 mls A+B, dash of drip clean and 1/4 teaspoon epsom. The last two times I run my mix through I make sure the ph is at 5.8.

Again, all the water is tap water and when I say I run a mix through it means 1 gallon. I know this sounds wayyy excessive, but my plants don't have issues anymore. I planted clones straight into coco from the bag and they went haywire from potassium and other nutrient deficiencies. Now they're green and lovely and the growth is insane.

Good luck!!

Ah, thank you very detailed..

Now why didn't I think of that?.. A hot water rinse. That should get rid of the nasties..

I see your loading the coco with some epsoms and PK nutrients.. not a bad idea really, I've noticed clones tend to do better with a little more PK.

Hmmm.. any reasons why you use epsoms vs cal-mag?.

Looks like youre using straight coco, ?

Thanks for sharing your method.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

My method-
-Soak bricks in warm tap water for about 15 min - 1 gallon per brick.
-Break/ fluff up the coco.
-Spray down with tap water until runoff is clear - i never get it completely clear, just more clear than brown.
-Squeeze out excess water.
-Soak the coco with a solution of about 10ml/gal of Cal/Mag with R/O water. Let it sit for a few minutes.
-Squeeze out excess water.
-Add about 25-30% rinsed perlite.
-Add plants.

Good luck. Stay safe.

Very detailed.. thank you..

I know what you mean about coco, not rinsing clear easily. Its like the coco dust doesn't come out, but no biggie.

Any preference to what kind of cal-mag? I've used botanicare in the past and I like it.

Any thoughts to why 10ml a gallon? for pre-treating coco? I was also wondering if the mineral content of perlite is enough?.

Thanks again.

 

[WaterFarmFan]

I get a 5 gallon bucket and mix the appropriate nutrients (1/2 strength for seedlings/cuttings or full strenth for larger plants) for the transplanting stage. I add loose Cana coco until the mixture is soupy. I then break up all chunks with my hands. I add the coco to the bottom of the pot, place in the plant (rapid rooter or transplant) and fill around.

I usually do not feed for 5-7 days after transplanting until the coco starts to dry out. So, it is important to give the plant food for this intial period.

Hope this helps.

WFF

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

I get a 5 gallon bucket and mix the appropriate nutrients (1/2 strength for seedlings/cuttings or full strenth for larger plants) for the transplanting stage. I add loose Cana coco until the mixture is soupy. I then break up all chunks with my hands. I add the coco to the bottom of the pot, place in the plant (rapid rooter or transplant) and fill around.

I usually do not feed for 5-7 days after transplanting until the coco starts to dry out. So, it is important to give the plant food for this intial period.

Hope this helps.

WFF

I was kinda checking out your latest grow.. some of the older lower growth looked kinda crispy on the edges, and some of the leaves look a little off like its an Mag, problem? What do you think?

So you dont rinse your coco?..

 

[Guywithoutajeep]

Ah, thank you very detailed..

Now why didn't I think of that?.. A hot water rinse. That should get rid of the nasties..

I see your loading the coco with some epsoms and PK nutrients.. not a bad idea really, I've noticed clones tend to do better with a little more PK.

Hmmm.. any reasons why you use epsoms vs cal-mag?.

Looks like youre using straight coco, ?

Thanks for sharing your method.

Ok Im on a wake and bake so stick with me here...

Yeah each time I fully soak my five gallon pot the water that pools up on top gets clearer and clearer. I get a bunch of garbage that runs out.

I add more PK because I'm really looking to avoid the wacky K (among other) deficiency that occurs with some coco grows. I think coco holds onto a bunch of nutrients until it sort of "fills up". Its like a biochemistry thing.

The epsom vs. cal-mag thing. On my H&G Coco part A bottle it says that it is loaded with calcium. Combine that with the calcium in my tapwater and I think I have more than enough cal. If I used Cal-Mag then wouldn't just add more cal to my nute profile? Too much calcium will lock out magnesium and if it progress will mess with potassium (which is the initial deficiency I'm trying to avoid). I'm not sure why people buy cal-mag when epsom is less than $2 at wal-mart.

The balance of my system is very fragile

 

[WaterFarmFan]

I was kinda checking out your latest grow.. some of the older lower growth looked kinda crispy on the edges, and some of the leaves look a little off like its an Mag, problem? What do you think?

So you dont rinse your coco?..

Hey GGW. I assume you are talking about my Sour Lifesaver lady. She had some ph issues that went undiagonosed for a week in early flowering. After a very good flush, she has rebounded great but some of the leaves did not recover. I was doing no-run off with her and she got some lock out.

The method I detailed was suggested here. I asked some similar questions to you when I first started coco. See the thread below:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=135095

WFF

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Ok Im on a wake and bake so stick with me here...

Yeah each time I fully soak my five gallon pot the water that pools up on top gets clearer and clearer. I get a bunch of garbage that runs out.

I add more PK because I'm really looking to avoid the wacky K (among other) deficiency that occurs with some coco grows. I think coco holds onto a bunch of nutrients until it sort of "fills up". Its like a biochemistry thing.

The epsom vs. cal-mag thing. On my H&G Coco part A bottle it says that it is loaded with calcium. Combine that with the calcium in my tapwater and I think I have more than enough cal. If I used Cal-Mag then wouldn't just add more cal to my nute profile? Too much calcium will lock out magnesium and if it progress will mess with potassium (which is the initial deficiency I'm trying to avoid). I'm not sure why people buy cal-mag when epsom is less than $2 at wal-mart.

The balance of my system is very fragile

Great answer and explnation.

Yeah thats what I was wondering too, alot of people seem to just dose with cal-mag even IF there seems not to be a cal problem.

Oddly enough, I've kinda figgured that epsoms in my other hydro grows worked fine. Only in Aeropoincs do I have more cal/mag problems and to be honest I've only bough cal-mag ONCE in all the years I've been growing, and looking at my notes it might be because I was light handed with the epsoms. But this is one of the first times I've run without RO water and run stricly from tap, so its possible it was a lockout.

I see what you mean about coco holding nutrients, question for you then, when you prep your coco, do you typicaly setup for drain to waste?..

You think DTW would keep the coco in balance?

Great stuff man.. cant say thanks enough.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Hey GGW. I assume you are talking about my Sour Lifesaver lady. She had some ph issues that went undiagonosed for a week in early flowering. After a very good flush, she has rebounded great but some of the leaves did not recover. I was doing no-run off with her and she got some lock out.

The method I detailed was suggested here. I asked some similar questions to you when I first started coco. See the thread below:

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=135095

WFF

Yeah that might be the one.. so it was a PH issue then.

I'm gonna setup for drain to waste, seems a bit more expensive, but I think this is what I need to setup for, it just seems like a more stable system, the nute buildup PH issues are more in control with DTW.

Thanks for the info and the link.

 

[GrnMtnGrwr]

I use compressed GH Cocotek Bricks.

I hydrate bricks in a 5 gallon bucket with 1 - 1.5 gallons of water, as instructed.

Before I use the coco, it gets rinsed with water straight out of the tap until the runoff is clear.

After that, water with whatever nutes you're giving your plants.

I have heard of some people boiling water, taking it off the heat, putting their coco in, and letting that sit. I'm not too worried about bugs, the only thing I've ever seen was fungus gnats and that was my own fault, high humidity and constantly wet coco is just asking for it.

 

[hazy]

I just open the bag and use it.

I've used Botanicaire 12k blocks and their loose in the bag coco and Bcuzz coco. Good coco has already been thoroughly rinsed. Mine has perlite and vermiculite in it. Mostly perlite, but some p/v from a hempy bucket went in too.
I reuse it and rinse it very well between uses.
New or reused I add my nute mix to the coco before I use it to transplant into. That way the coco already has it's fill of K and Ca and other cations, then I water them in with nutes when I transplant.

 

[YosemiteSam]

The answer depends entirely on which coco you are starting with (and sorry if you named it and i missed it).

Several of the high end brands are very well flushed by the manufacturer and do not need to be flushed. On top of that, some of those are amended with Ca/Mg to satisfy the cation exchange capacity...so flushing those is just going to waste that work. And finally, the Atami (B'Cuzz) brand comes with all of that plus beneficials already loaded...for sure you do not want to flush it.

Conversely, some lesser brands come with high Na contents which are detrimental to your grow and clearly need to be flushed.

The problem is that rinsing and measuring EC only tells you salts are present, it does not distinguish between Na or Ca/Mg/K. You got to know the brand in question.

I can say that BioBizz and Atami are both fine without a flush from personal experience. Beyond that I do not have personal experience so I would not want to make a recommendation for someone else.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

Wow, great input from everybody..



I see the rinsing and soaking is a no brainer..

Some of you are using perlite, but no mention of vermiculite.

The hot water soak is something I'm looking into doing.

Nobody has mentioned anything about pre-treating the coco with molasses, and adding beneficial microbes. I guess its not something people do with coco.



In my mind this is how I would set it up..

2 gallon pots with 2 GPH drippers feed 3x daily for one hour DTW.

GH Coco Bricks cut with with a 50/50 blend of perlite and vermiculite up to 30%.

Coco Pre Treat. Version 1.

- Bricks go into a Hot water bath ~160F+ water till water reaches room temp

-Excess water is drained, coco is fluffed and rinsed until water is clearer.

-Fluffed coco is mixed by weight with the perlite/vermiculite blend.
up to 30%.

-GH Micro @ 6ml and GH Bloom 9ml per gallon
Molasses 1TBS per gal
1/4 teaspoon of epsoms per gallon
Compost tea or casting tea (undecided ammount)
is added and mixed to the coco, until coco comes together
Add additional beneficial microbes.

-Let the mix sit for a day in a warm place. ~80-100F. Prior to use.

First watering will be plain water.

Whatcha think?

 

[Khyber13]

Cleaning CoCo

Cleaning CoCo

I get a Screwdriver & Stab a bunch of Holes in the Bottom of the bag. Then I set it in the bathtub & drain all the Mud. Otherwise the Mud will Clogg Your Pumps. Let the water pour into the bag until its clear water commin out.

 

[GrowerGoneWild]

The answer depends entirely on which coco you are starting with (and sorry if you named it and i missed it).

Several of the high end brands are very well flushed by the manufacturer and do not need to be flushed. On top of that, some of those are amended with Ca/Mg to satisfy the cation exchange capacity...so flushing those is just going to waste that work. And finally, the Atami (B'Cuzz) brand comes with all of that plus beneficials already loaded...for sure you do not want to flush it.

Thats some solid info I can work with there.

So if I use a premium coco, dont flush.. The work is already done.
Nice.. I was wondering that..

As far as the cation exchange capacity.. would you add something like vermiculite to further enhance the exchange capacity? Even with a premium coco like B'Cuzz?

 

[YosemiteSam]

My suggestion would be to post what coco you have available to you. Someone has used it. I have only used the two I mentioned and love them both...debating myself as to whether the extra cost for the B'Cuzz is worth it although if you want to be organic it may very well be.

As far as amending for higher cec I wonder what advantage you perceive that to be? Most people use coco for the air space, not the cec. If you amend it with vermiculite you will be reducing the air volume in your mix (finer particle size (or fibers if you prefer) will fill the void spaces and lower the overall void space and % void space. That would make it more like soil and would reduce the amount of times you can water, reducing the amount of oxygen you are getting to the roots...thereby reducing the growth potential.

If cec is important I would think soil or ProMix would be the way to go...but like I say I do not see the benefit of higher cec even though there may very well be one I am not aware of.