Is Nevilles Haze still the strongest haze?

[l33t]

thank you dutchgrown , I really appreciate your reply

I have a few more Qs if thats ok with you

Did you get to finish all the plants including the longest flowering ones? If so did you find any such really slow phenos that you would say represented the Haze more than the 'fast' keepers?
Basically I wonder if the slowest finishers were very good just not really practical and the difference compared to the fastest ones was not great to worth the extra time especially for indoor growing. Meaning if someone doesn't care about flowering times and can grow in the tropics would selecting the slower plants be a better option if one looks for a more accurate representation of the Haze in your opinion?

Did you find any plants that had any narcotic feeling to the high?

 

[Telegraphist.]

indifferent good day sir

Can you give more details of your research please

I also am going to experiment with blue, purple, uvb and whatever colors take my fancy at the time

Have you (or indeed anyone) tried colored perspex filters in front of a HPS or MH bulb to adust PAR ratio of light? just an idea

 

[Dutchgrown]

thank you dutchgrown , I really appreciate your reply

I have a few more Qs if thats ok with you

Did you get to finish all the plants including the longest flowering ones? If so did you find any such really slow phenos that you would say represented the Haze more than the 'fast' keepers?
Basically I wonder if the slowest finishers were very good just not really practical and the difference compared to the fastest ones was not great to worth the extra time especially for indoor growing. Meaning if someone doesn't care about flowering times and can grow in the tropics would selecting the slower plants be a better option if one looks for a more accurate representation of the Haze in your opinion?

Did you find any plants that had any narcotic feeling to the high?

No, not all.....I did take some to 18 weeks, but they were not going to finish in another 2 weeks...or likely not in another 4 weeks....so I culled those, due to what Nev said to me. However, his replies to me were due to my interest in working his NH to be more attractive to indoor growing using shorter flw plants....I don't think we should assume that any of those that went 18 + weeks as being inferior, just that they were not what 'I' was wanting to do with it. I say this because there were some really nice smelling ones in the 18+ wk range, but had the wispiest buds.....VERY haze wispy. Because it was possible to find a shorter flw with pretty much the same qualities in aroma of the 18+'s, same statures also, I simply did not keep them. What they would have smoked like....yeah, maybe I should have kept them. I had a special room built just for the haze project, and after bringing the male indoors along with 6 fem's (that had enjoyed living outdoors all summer in NL) I simply had to make choices on what to keep, as I already had close to 600 plants going and running out of space.

I wish I could tell you for certain about keeping the longer flw phenos....but....based on what I grew, if I had had the space, I'd likely have kept them all....it pained me to cull what I did.

Narcotic feeling....well....I can't really say I'd call it narcotic....it produced to me a very clear...intense....trippy high...not what I'd call lethargic. Heart pounding....racing actually...with the closest to causing 'visuals' of any cannabis I've smoked.....to this day.

 

[buddah]

great info dutchgrow thx

 

[ClearBarbedFunk]

Hi ClearBarbedFunk i think you and others in here have me all rong

Hempy bro, i know you(online persona) quite well from the years, i have no problems with you bro. find alot of your info well worth reading. most times quite amusing, not in a negitive way.

Uncle Ben was a mentor of mine way back on OG, and believe me bro, ya have nothin on him

so im all good with alot that goes on in these threads, personally like to read what others think on many subjects. good or bad.

we can argue with some respect for others.

CBF

 

[landragon]

indifferent,
thank you for the superbly written post! really informative and much appreciated.
peace/hh

Ditto! This is the stuff that makes me pay for an Internet connection.

Sativas are my passion. Growing Sativas indoors is my obsession LOL. My own experiments with light have shown hybrids to be much more expressive of Sativa traits under high Kelvin MH lights. The peripheral buds in the garden at the sides often have a more spacey and less stoney than those under the lamps. I think angle of light had something to do with this. I think vertical may be a start.

TBH my most Sativa plants are 50-66% Haze hybrids and I have no pure Thai grows under my belt. I do have plenty of seeds of landraces and lightly worked pure Sativa hybrids that I want to master. Patience isn't an issue, I have plants at 13 1/2 weeks now.

I firmly agree with indifferent that modern technology is making leaps and bounds yet is vastly unexplored for our needs. In some ways we hinder our goals. Anyone who noticed less highs and more stones from their mixed spectrum (hps+mh) gardens once they switched to vented, glass shielded hoods knows what I mean there.

I'm about to start some TW x Colombian Red seeds looking for a skin crawling good time.

Good luck to all searchers of truth. I think there's little to be found in these who did what 40 years ago debates but much to be found with in out seed collections, gardens and hearts. LD

 

[bigherb]

Dutchgrown

A predominately pissy pine, with a slight hint of spice I'd call akin to sandalwood...although certainly dominated by the pine flavor throughout (being more pronounced).


these taste/aromas are dom in my nev n this was from the first seed i popped

spicy pissy incense is exactly wat ive been searchin for caz this is closest representation to our nyc haze in seed form

this keeper from nevs sounds similar to the fourth variety that happyhi describes ,since ive first came here ive been on a hunt to know if the hazebroshaze had incense traits n after almost 3 yrs i got an answer which i take too be proof caz i believe happy hi to hav been there n had connections

thanks for sharin your experience i sure wish that raid neva happened

can you tell of any experiences wit the first haze sams brought to holland or anything about the hbh in rotterdam n the oldschool hazes still floating in rotterdam

also curious to know the pic wit the nevs male outdoors were you feeding any liquid nutrients

also interested to ko if you believe sams haze line to be diff then neville?

1luvbigherb

 

[SuperConductor]

I think angle of light had something to do with this. I think vertical may be a start.

I think angle of light is an issue with sats too, not sure about how it effects the high but definitely for growth itself. I'm thinking it's because the last few weeks of a tropical sats life the sun is very low in the sky perhaps? We often see the 'sativa reveg' symptom where the buds seem to keep producing new growth and if you point the tips of the bud away from the lamp it does help a lot (thanks to Hempy for that tip ). Many folks are raising lights in the last few weeks too.

Vertical does make stratch much easier to handle for sure

 

[indifferent]

Very interesting info Dutchgrown, many thanks for taking the time to share your experiences.

Pissy Pine sounds to me like a mix of Thai and Mexican aromas. A lot of Thais are lemony/ammonia/cat piss in their aromas, whereas a lot of Mexicans are pine/beech/woodsy.

The incense type smells to me are from Colombian.

Hiya Telegraphist, what details would you like?

I think I should probably start a sativa thread to split off discussion of sativa growing methods, what do folks think, a good idea?

On the topic of new growth on sativas due to light intensity, it is something I have seen many times and I find that keeping sativas away from intense light is a good idea. They like lots of light, but in needs to be diffuse and spread evenly.

On using filters with lights, it can be done, you would need to use theatre lighting gels as those are designed to fit on the front of powerful theatre lights and so will take the heat from a HPS or MH. However, I prefer to use LEDs for experiments with different wavelengths as I can create lights with very specific spectra and avoid head issues.

This is the deep blue veg light I'm using at the moment, it looks very purple to the naked eye, it has 25 royal blue (440nm) LEDs, 20 blue (460-470nm) LEDs and 15 whites to fill in the rest of the spectrum.

This is my initial test rig for adding blue light to a flowering setup. It's only 30W and a simple DIY lashup, but it's enough to make a start. I have a Highland Oaxacan Gold growing in this corner, and I fitted the panels in one corner so the blue light is concentrated on the plant in that corner to maximise the effects.

I'm adding more lighting as budget allows, my second phase of experiments won't begin for a little while yet but I will make sure I try to draw some useful information from my first experiments before i design the second set.

For the UV testing, I am using a 26W Repltiglo CFL lamp that has 10% UVB output. It is positioned 10-15cm above the Highland Oaxacan Gold. After 15 days of exposure, I'm not seeing more resin but it seems that the trichomes are maturing (turning cloudy) earlier than they have on previous occasions when I've run this cutting.

Yesterday, day 15:

I know I'm not that far along with these experiments, but to get to this point was a lot of work, I build all the LED lights myself, and there are over 600 individuals LEDs in those panels in the flower experiment, so most of the work so far has been in researching lighting technologies and building experimental lighting systems.

This is the Highland Oaxacan Gold grown under a 250W HPS a while back:

 

[3dDream]

indifferent - doesn't red light have more energy? isn't a carotenoid just a pigment?

 

[l33t]

I'm thinking it's because the last few weeks of a tropical sats life the sun is very low in the sky perhaps?

hi SuperConductor,

Regarding the angle of light..
In the case of tropical sativas the Sun comes from a higher angle not lower in the horizon.

At 0 degrees Lat. (equator) the sun never drops below 65-70 degrees even when its at its lowest point in the sky..

At 23 degrees Lat. (where the tropics zone end) the Sun drops at approx 40-45 degrees.

For reference at 40 degrees Lat (ie Spain) it drops at approx 25-30degrees in the horizon during December when Hazes and other tropics sats are finishing.

So to answer your Q , no, Sativas from the tropics never have the sun drop low in the horizon.

We often see the 'sativa reveg' symptom where the buds seem to keep producing new growth and if you point the tips of the bud away from the lamp it does help a lot

The main reason you see this 'sativa reveg symptom' you describe is mainly due to the very high levels of radiant heat (not ambient / environment heat-air temps). Spectrum of light and radiant heat to environment/ambient temperature ratio may also be factors. Of course very high light intensity combined with high radiant heat levels is what actually causes the prob in the case of HPS/MH lights thats why keeping the light a bit further seems to help.

But I agree with indifferent regarding the 'ideal indoor sativa room', I believe the perfect room for tropical sativa strains would have lots of light , ideally lots of full spectrum 1kw+ lights hanged high up on the ceiling , this way you get even distribution , and maximum wattage per sq.meter with the lowest radiant heat levels at plant height/canopy.

btw Keeping the lights a bit far away indoors with HIDs during the last couple of weeks also helps with terpens production/ taste.

If this 'reveg problem' had to do with light intensity alone we would see this effect in outdoor plants as well that grow in the tropics where the light intensity is around 1000-1200 Watts per square meter. Most gardens with HPS/MH usually don't even use so much wattage plus sunlight doesn't lose its intensity over distance , sunlight has better spectrum and there is less 'shadowing' due to the fact that Sunlight rays are parallel , point light type sources like with the case of HPS/MH.

I also believe that parallel light rays are one of the things that make a difference when it comes to the chemical reactions inside the trichome's heads due to light.

l33t

 

[SuperConductor]

Excellent stuff thanks. That would explain why it is that while vert is great for reducing stretch I have suffered more from the reveg thing as the bulbs are closer. Would love to hear your thoughts on light angle on the trich.

 

[eugenegreen]

This thread is becoming GOLD!!! I'm liking this very much

 

[Movintarget]

I feel privileged to amongst so much personal knowledge of the history, and of those that were there. Gold Jerry,.... Gold

 

[happyhi]

best description of what i'm smoking yet

best description of what i'm smoking yet

A predominately pissy pine, with a slight hint of spice I'd call akin to sandalwood...although certainly dominated by the pine flavor throughout (being more pronounced).

someone finally nailed it, this is the very best description of the shit that i have seen, describes what i would refer to as the number 4 plant of the original haze.
imho, it smells like cat piss a bit late in flower and after the cure takes on the pine, sandalwood was the word!
it had to be the Nam Rengo Kyo

 

[eugenegreen]

Ya know, I'm pretty sure DG might be doing some Haze projects in the near future I read about DG having been gifted Haze beans (from Neville himself) a long time ago, this was in another thread... Hopefully she does them sooner than later

p.s. Didn't mean to speak for you DG... But I read this a few days ago, been curious if this is what you planned to do?

JAH Bless

 

[ptg]

Quote:We often see the 'sativa reveg' symptom where the buds seem to keep producing new growth and if you point the tips of the bud away from the lamp it does help a lot

The main reason you see this 'sativa reveg symptom' you describe is mainly due to the very high levels of radiant heat (not ambient / environment heat-air temps). Spectrum of light and radiant heat to environment/ambient temperature ratio may also be factors. Of course very high light intensity combined with high radiant heat levels is what actually causes the prob in the case of HPS/MH lights thats why keeping the light a bit further seems to help.

But I agree with indifferent regarding the 'ideal indoor sativa room', I believe the perfect room for tropical sativa strains would have lots of light , ideally lots of full spectrum 1kw+ lights hanged high up on the ceiling , this way you get even distribution , and maximum wattage per sq.meter with the lowest radiant heat levels at plant height/canopy.

btw Keeping the lights a bit far away indoors with HIDs during the last couple of weeks also helps with terpens production/ taste.

If this 'reveg problem' had to do with light intensity alone we would see this effect in outdoor plants as well that grow in the tropics where the light intensity is around 1000-1200 Watts per square meter. Most gardens with HPS/MH usually don't even use so much wattage plus sunlight doesn't lose its intensity over distance , sunlight has better spectrum and there is less 'shadowing' due to the fact that Sunlight rays are parallel , point light type sources like with the case of HPS/MH.

I also believe that parallel light rays are one of the things that make a difference when it comes to the chemical reactions inside the trichome's heads due to light.

l33t

For sure the most sensible explanation i ever heard!

 

[Dutchgrown]

Ya know, I'm pretty sure DG might be doing some Haze projects in the near future I read about DG having been gifted Haze beans (from Neville himself) a long time ago, this was in another thread... Hopefully she does them sooner than later

p.s. Didn't mean to speak for you DG... But I read this a few days ago, been curious if this is what you planned to do?

JAH Bless

I plan to see what comes out of the remaining seeds...maybe I get lucky and find just the right pheno, or two...would be nice to find again.

Also....yet another mutual friend had a pack in his fridge (from the same lot) and gifted those to me a couple months ago. So I've got something to start the quest again with!

 

[cocktail frank]

great thread!
better read!

 

[KindBudKid]

great thread!
better read!

My thoughts exactly... I'm glad I read it from the beginning.. Very interesting read indeed..

All I know is that I'm very thankful to the work both Neville and Shantibaba have both done for the modern haze grower and for haze period.. Also have mad respect for both these guys breeding skillz... SSH, Nev's Haze, MangoHaze, AfghanHaze, and others... These are just the ones I have first hand knowledge of and with proper selection applied all have amazing phenos to be had...