B
BeAn
Tidy job with the soldering iron mate, shame about the 6/10 on the indian delicacy though...dont think a slow cure in a jar would would make them any better either...
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400W Medicine Cupboard
- Thread starter indifferent
- Start date
H
Hazyfontazy
nah go hydro ,,stick a paddle wheel inbeetween ya draipipe and connect that ,,the amount of water u get ,u should be able to sell back to the grid lol
The chances of a bhaji lasting long enough to cure when I'm around are slim I'm afraid!
******'s Jack at 48 days, not impressed with this plant, much smaller and with smaller buds than I'd hoped after seeing this cut grown in coco. I'm not liking organic soil growing at all, plants are smaller and yields much smaller than I was getting with coco so I am gonna go back to straight coco with coco nutes next run, need to get back to yielding good weights.
******'s Jack at 48 days, not impressed with this plant, much smaller and with smaller buds than I'd hoped after seeing this cut grown in coco. I'm not liking organic soil growing at all, plants are smaller and yields much smaller than I was getting with coco so I am gonna go back to straight coco with coco nutes next run, need to get back to yielding good weights.
Here's that OGK X PA pheno at two weeks, and looking absolutely splendid - branchy as hell, with many, many budsites, and chubby leaves, which look to be a 50/50 mix of both parents in shape. That's a 7" (180mm) diameter pot it's in, for scale. If it flowers with this amount of stretch, it's going to be beautiful by the end, assuming the buds are significant too...
Looks very nice, I can tell right away by the leaves that that is a more Afghan leaning pheno than the one I have, in fact, looks like an Afghan dom pheno by the leaf form.Very interested to see how she turns out.
A tiny bit of pollen from the OGxPA (we gotta give it a simpler name! lol) got on a Oaxacan cutting and I got 4 seeds that looked mature-ish, bit pale. I tried germing em and only 1 popped, it stuck it's cotyledons out of the soil today so fingers crossed it's a lady, with such a mixed genetic background, the possibilities for something rather unusual are strong.
I've got rooted cuttings of two Purple Thai males, gonna pollinate another Oaxacan with one of them.I've been thinking about sibling crosses and how they might work, eg:
Purple Thai (Thai x Purple Afghan) x Purple OG Kush (OG x Purple Afghan)
This would be 50% Purple Afghan, 25% Thai and 25% OG, all of the Afghan genes being fromthe same male plant.
I'm not suggesting I'm going to make such a cross, just interested in debating the merits of such a cross using two hybrids made with the same father.
A tiny bit of pollen from the OGxPA (we gotta give it a simpler name! lol) got on a Oaxacan cutting and I got 4 seeds that looked mature-ish, bit pale. I tried germing em and only 1 popped, it stuck it's cotyledons out of the soil today so fingers crossed it's a lady, with such a mixed genetic background, the possibilities for something rather unusual are strong.
I've got rooted cuttings of two Purple Thai males, gonna pollinate another Oaxacan with one of them.I've been thinking about sibling crosses and how they might work, eg:
Purple Thai (Thai x Purple Afghan) x Purple OG Kush (OG x Purple Afghan)
This would be 50% Purple Afghan, 25% Thai and 25% OG, all of the Afghan genes being fromthe same male plant.
I'm not suggesting I'm going to make such a cross, just interested in debating the merits of such a cross using two hybrids made with the same father.
H
Hazyfontazy
goto holland and get a breeding facility
I got about eight seeds off the OGK a couple of weeks ago - no idea what pollen source, unless it's the abortive attempt I made on the HOG with Overflow pollen ages ago, but it didn't have any effect on the HOG at all, so not sure. Failing that, it has to be rogue pollen from the HOG itself, as there's no hermie on the OTMs at all. Mind you, one or two friends have also reported the odd seed in OGK, so maybe it has a very slight hermie tendency too? But I've never seen a single nanner on that in about six grows, so it's all a bit of a mystery.
Good idea, although Spain might be a better choice.
Would not surprise me at all if the OG was capable of producing a nanner or two. I had none when I grew her and don't remember THC4Sim or hazy having nanners on theirs either, but then again, we are all experienced growers and wouldn't have stressed her, maybe with some stress she will bust out a nanner? Then again, a lot of females will do that if stressed imho.
Another OG cross is interesting though, whether intentional or not, especially if the pollen source was a selected male rather than a stray nanner on a female. I guess the only way to know is to grow em out. If the HOG produced some pollen again and the seeds are HOG x OG then I would consider em well worth growing out, bound to be something unusual in there. Imagine a plant with the size and yield of the HOG but the resin and flower density of the OG, that would be interesting to see.
How long ago was the overflow pollen applied? I don't think pollen survives very long at all, but if you had a stray spore or two then it could be.
Hey hazy, I found the last of the BB F3s today, there are 6, so while the F2s might not have popped, there is a slim chance of us saving that line. I'm trying to find out if any of the people I gave some BB f3s to (and I handed out like 2000 of em) still have theirs and will send em back, but the seed sharing forum I handed em out on disappeared last year so it's proving hard to track folks down. Out of 2000+ seeds I end up with no living plants and 6 seeds, hmmm, annoying.
I'm going through my oldest seeds that I've had for years and trying to germ the most interesting ones, so far, not having many pop. I have 8 Durban Poison that are a decade old in towels now, fingers crossed. I also put the only two seeds from a very special Jamaican import batch in as well, I remember the bud they came from very well, looked like shit cos it was dark, dry, lightly pressed import but was some of the strongest shit I have ever experienced.
So far the only live plants I have managed to get from my oldest seeds are those two Mangos from the old Positronics stock and two Africans from the best African import I've ever seen, and extremely sativa they are too, very thin leaflets and thin, wiry stems, reminds me a lot of the Jahwi's Joy I grew once, so it might be a West African from Ghana/Gambia or might be from South Africa as those are the two places in AFRICA where mucho weed is exported to the UK from. One is female, the other I suspect male, but it refuses to show sex. I've not flowered the female yet cos I can't get a clone of her to root.
I'm gonna try germing some more African seeds, I have loads more including Ethiopian, Egyptian, Lesotho, Senegalese, Angolan, two different Malawi Golds, two Swazis, Transkei, Chiskei, Nigerian, Ghanaian, how many will pop is unknown, probably very few, but I figured it was time to try growing em as having so many old, dead seeds sat in the stash is stupid and they aren't getting any younger.
I have quite a few "Sess" seeds from 5 years or so ago. Original bud was very nice quality smoke for such shit-looking super-compressed bud. Source? Unknown, but obtained via South London Grenadan Rasta work associates at the time. I always assumed was Jamaican or Grenadan.
Have grown one - extreme sativa phenotype, electric lime green, ultra-thin, ultra-long leaves. Used an Afghani male to make some beans with it, and chopped it after the beans dropped (last plant in the cab, and was only getting going after 9 weeks of 12/12 - didn't want to wait forever on one plant). None of those produced beans popped, but may well be my lack of skill.
Not at all confident I have the experience to grow these out to their full potential, but other people may do better.
Maybe I'll stick a couple in the paper towels sometime.....they aren't getting any younger.
Have grown one - extreme sativa phenotype, electric lime green, ultra-thin, ultra-long leaves. Used an Afghani male to make some beans with it, and chopped it after the beans dropped (last plant in the cab, and was only getting going after 9 weeks of 12/12 - didn't want to wait forever on one plant). None of those produced beans popped, but may well be my lack of skill.
Not at all confident I have the experience to grow these out to their full potential, but other people may do better.
Maybe I'll stick a couple in the paper towels sometime.....they aren't getting any younger.
classic...
they will love the uv light...
350-500nm influences:
*chlorophyll a production
*auxin hormone catalyst
*split of water atom
*plant movement
*stomata movement
see link in sig
lighting conversion data
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=127112
sunlight reaching surface of earth has max intensity in blue-green region of spectrum, or 450-550nm. chlorophyll absorbs smallest amount of incident light energy in this region. but they still will be entirely different, in final fruit, w/ blue light added... chlorophyll a & b have absorption peaks @~440nm.
nice led array:yes... looks like you even calculated for the current leakage
... striking power (luminous efficacy) seems the only limitations of diodes...btw, is that orchid bark, or inert rocks, in the media of the s*****'s jack? in post 103.
enjoy your garden!
Thanks for the input guys, stuff like this really pleases me as it makes this thread much miore than a monolgue from me about my grow!
Very interesting. From the sounds of your experiences with that plant, I would say what you have is a full-on proper carribean sativa. I have heard many times that on the less visited smaller islands they are still growing proper sativas descended from colombian, panamanian, mexican, guatemalan etc. In fact, I have heard that you are far more likely to find unpolluted old sativa genes on some of the less bustling carribean islands than in colombia or mexico these days.
I would think those seeds are definitely worth further growing, and as you have already tried, some hybridisation might be a good idea.
It's a topdressing of diatomite applied to combat gnats. The diatomite has turned brown as the organic stew I feed is always a thick, deep brown from all the liquid humic, molasses and seaweed, the chicken manure isalso a thick dark brown.
I'm trying to, but having more problems recently than I have had in years - first powdery mildew, then a literal plague gnats, then mould, then mites and now a puzzling defficiency.
I cured the PM (was a right struggle) then finally vanquished the gnats (was a very long and gruelling battle), have pretty much licked the mould, will have totally when my dehumidifier arrives, and it looks like I've won against the mites, my continual spraying looks to have pretty much wiped em out as I can't see any anymore.
But now I have this deficiency, and I don't know what it is, first I thought it was N, then I realised it wasn't, I've checked some guides to sick plants and I still don't know what it is, perhaps it's cal-mag, that is my best bet, although it may be manganese, to be honest, I'm not at all sure.
What do you guys think? Perhaps I should give em a dose of epsom salts? I have some calcium nitrate too which would give em cal and N, the epsom is for mag.
I have come to one conclusion though - I'm going back to basics, plain coco for medium and Canna Coco A+B and PK13-14 for nutes, this I know works and is simple to get right.
I'll shove all the organics in a big box and either keep them for future messing around or give them to a good cause, maybe Elevator Man can use em! lol I'm sure he can use the sacks of bat guano and wormcastings.
I have quite a few "Sess" seeds from 5 years or so ago. Original bud was very nice quality smoke for such shit-looking super-compressed bud. Source? Unknown, but obtained via South London Grenadan Rasta work associates at the time. I always assumed was Jamaican or Grenadan.
Have grown one - extreme sativa phenotype, electric lime green, ultra-thin, ultra-long leaves. Used an Afghani male to make some beans with it, and chopped it after the beans dropped (last plant in the cab, and was only getting going after 9 weeks of 12/12 - didn't want to wait forever on one plant). None of those produced beans popped, but may well be my lack of skill.
Not at all confident I have the experience to grow these out to their full potential, but others may do better.
Maybe I'll stick a couple in the paper towels sometime.....they aren't getting any younger.
Very interesting. From the sounds of your experiences with that plant, I would say what you have is a full-on proper carribean sativa. I have heard many times that on the less visited smaller islands they are still growing proper sativas descended from colombian, panamanian, mexican, guatemalan etc. In fact, I have heard that you are far more likely to find unpolluted old sativa genes on some of the less bustling carribean islands than in colombia or mexico these days.
I would think those seeds are definitely worth further growing, and as you have already tried, some hybridisation might be a good idea.
It's a topdressing of diatomite applied to combat gnats. The diatomite has turned brown as the organic stew I feed is always a thick, deep brown from all the liquid humic, molasses and seaweed, the chicken manure isalso a thick dark brown.
I'm trying to, but having more problems recently than I have had in years - first powdery mildew, then a literal plague gnats, then mould, then mites and now a puzzling defficiency.
I cured the PM (was a right struggle) then finally vanquished the gnats (was a very long and gruelling battle), have pretty much licked the mould, will have totally when my dehumidifier arrives, and it looks like I've won against the mites, my continual spraying looks to have pretty much wiped em out as I can't see any anymore.
But now I have this deficiency, and I don't know what it is, first I thought it was N, then I realised it wasn't, I've checked some guides to sick plants and I still don't know what it is, perhaps it's cal-mag, that is my best bet, although it may be manganese, to be honest, I'm not at all sure.
What do you guys think? Perhaps I should give em a dose of epsom salts? I have some calcium nitrate too which would give em cal and N, the epsom is for mag.
I have come to one conclusion though - I'm going back to basics, plain coco for medium and Canna Coco A+B and PK13-14 for nutes, this I know works and is simple to get right.
I'll shove all the organics in a big box and either keep them for future messing around or give them to a good cause, maybe Elevator Man can use em! lol I'm sure he can use the sacks of bat guano and wormcastings.
I'll put 'em in the rotation. I'll be sure to show 'n' tell if I get a popper.
Rather vaguely on the same subject....I was on a work assignment in Antigua a few years back, and got quite chummy with some of the local Rastafarians. According to them, local cultivation there was pretty much non-existant, but the island was an important drop-off on South American produce heading north, and they just took their pick of what they looked after. TBH....quality was not what I expected, especially as the bud (although seeded) wasn't compressed. Nice high, but my socks stayed firmly on throughout my months there.
Grenada has a thriving cultivation scene, but it takes big cajones to get into the right circles.
Rather vaguely on the same subject....I was on a work assignment in Antigua a few years back, and got quite chummy with some of the local Rastafarians. According to them, local cultivation there was pretty much non-existant, but the island was an important drop-off on South American produce heading north, and they just took their pick of what they looked after. TBH....quality was not what I expected, especially as the bud (although seeded) wasn't compressed. Nice high, but my socks stayed firmly on throughout my months there.
Grenada has a thriving cultivation scene, but it takes big cajones to get into the right circles.
classic...
they will love the uv light...
350-500nm influences:
*chlorophyll a production
*auxin hormone catalyst
*split of water atom
*plant movement
*stomata movement
see link in sig
lighting conversion data
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=127112
sunlight reaching surface of earth has max intensity in blue-green region of spectrum, or 450-550nm. chlorophyll absorbs smallest amount of incident light energy in this region. but they still will be entirely different, in final fruit, w/ blue light added... chlorophyll a & b have absorption peaks @~440nm.
nice led array:yes... looks like you even calculated for the current leakage
Very interesting, I can see you know a fair bit on this topic. I should split this off into a new thread so we can really get down to details. I am going to install the four 65-LED UV panesls I have as soon as the driver I ordered to run them arrives. They will use 6-7W each, so I am going to be supplementing about 25W of UV radiation. I am fitting the four panels in one corner, two on the back wall, two on the side wall so they are floowing that corner with UV light. I will then place a cutting in this corner and another cutting of the same genetics in the opposite corner and see how they do, this will allow me to see what effects the UV has.
The four panels are made up of these LEDSs:
1 x 380-385nm
1 x 390-395nm
2 x 395-400nm
By the way, those graphs are actual results from testing an LED from the 100pc bags I bought, I had a friend test them with his fancy equipment, he's an LED freak, he collects them!
My concern is that, while this 380-400nm UVA will have some effect, deep blue in the 440-460nm range is what I should really be using. I have purchased 10 royal blue (440nm) Luxeon 1 watt LEDs and I have a load of 460-470nm blue Seoul P3 1 watt LEDs left over from a veg light project so I can make a blue light panel soon as well.
I also have 3 6-7W panels that are of the same construction as the UV panels but using 50% 460-470nm blue and coolwhite LEDs, these will emit a lot of blue in the 46-470 range, quite a lot of blue in the 440-540nm range, some yellow, some green and some red/orange, I made these to use for vegging seedlings but never used them, perhaps I could use these panels to supplement blue in the 440-470 range and compare the effects of 380-400nm light to the effects of 440-470nm light.
This is the spectrum of the white LEDs I used:
And this is the spectrum of the blue ones:
The blue part of the white LED peaks at 455nm and the blue LED peaks at 460nm so these should be quite effective at stimulating the 440nm peak response point.
Elevator man has recently added 4 x 6500k fluoro tubes to his 400w HPS grow and reports some interesting results, he mentioned increased terpene production and thinner leaflets, I will ask him to further elaborate on his findings to date.
If we looks at that chart, we can see that the chlorophyll A absorbption point is exactly where the blue and white LEDs are emitting their light, so I expect to see some effect by adding these supplemental panels. Also, carotenoids are right at their peak of absorption around 400-500nm too so that is significant. Most of the terpenoids are carotenoid type substances so light in the 400-500nm range is going to stimulate production of greater levels of terpenoids and those are responsible for smell and taste and can also affect the nature of the high, so adding all this LED light is bound to have some effects on smell and taste.
This could be very important research. For instance, I might find that I can stimulate much greater production of a terpenoid that is responsible for a particular moderation effect in combination with THC and be able to completely alter the perceptive effects of the buds. I.E. if a plant produces a quite speedy effect due to a terpene present in it and I can stimulate production of more of that terpene, I could make a slighty racy effect change into a heart-pounding thrillride! We shall see...
When I referred to Colombian, Panamanian, Mexican etc genes of old vintage being in some of the islands, it was because they had grown out seeds from commercial shipments that had passed through the carribean, I would expect they had little idea where the seeds were from, and the genes would have become a right mishmash by now as they would have grown all kinds of different plants together on the same island for decades, so it will be a proper melting pot of intriguing genes. I think the only way for us UK folks to dip into that pot is by growing out seeds from weed from the islands, it's a complete lottery, but I'm sure there are many jewels to be unearthed. A friend of Elevator Man's has unearthed two absolute gems - Kentish Creme and Hazel Skunk, and those were just random seeds he brought back from the carribean.
If I can find something that is even vaguely in the same league as Kentish Creme, well....and that's just from what I've seen on ic.
But now I'm 2-cab/perpetual, I can at least try.....and so much of the fun of growing is the fact that it IS a lottery....
But I'm rambling.....the old devil Port & Guiness has me in her spell.
But now I'm 2-cab/perpetual, I can at least try.....and so much of the fun of growing is the fact that it IS a lottery....
But I'm rambling.....the old devil Port & Guiness has me in her spell.
interesting...Very interesting, I can see you know a fair bit on this topic. I should split this off into a new thread so we can really get down to details. I am going to install the four 65-LED UV panesls I have as soon as the driver I ordered to run them arrives. They will use 6-7W each, so I am going to be supplementing about 25W of UV radiation. I am fitting the four panels in one corner, two on the back wall, two on the side wall so they are floowing that corner with UV light. I will then place a cutting in this corner and another cutting of the same genetics in the opposite corner and see how they do, this will allow me to see what effects the UV has.
The four panels are made up of these LEDSs:
1 x 380-385nm
1 x 390-395nm
2 x 395-400nm
By the way, those graphs are actual results from testing an LED from the 100pc bags I bought, I had a friend test them with his fancy equipment, he's an LED freak, he collects them!
My concern is that, while this 380-400nm UVA will have some effect, deep blue in the 440-460nm range is what I should really be using. I have purchased 10 royal blue (440nm) Luxeon 1 watt LEDs and I have a load of 460-470nm blue Seoul P3 1 watt LEDs left over from a veg light project so I can make a blue light panel soon as well.
I also have 3 6-7W panels that are of the same construction as the UV panels but using 50% 460-470nm blue and coolwhite LEDs, these will emit a lot of blue in the 46-470 range, quite a lot of blue in the 440-540nm range, some yellow, some green and some red/orange, I made these to use for vegging seedlings but never used them, perhaps I could use these panels to supplement blue in the 440-470 range and compare the effects of 380-400nm light to the effects of 440-470nm light.
This is the spectrum of the white LEDs I used:
And this is the spectrum of the blue ones:
The blue part of the white LED peaks at 455nm and the blue LED peaks at 460nm so these should be quite effective at stimulating the 440nm peak response point.
Elevator man has recently added 4 x 6500k fluoro tubes to his 400w HPS grow and reports some interesting results, he mentioned increased terpene production and thinner leaflets, I will ask him to further elaborate on his findings to date.
If we looks at that chart, we can see that the chlorophyll A absorbption point is exactly where the blue and white LEDs are emitting their light, so I expect to see some effect by adding these supplemental panels. Also, carotenoids are right at their peak of absorption around 400-500nm too so that is significant. Most of the terpenoids are carotenoid type substances so light in the 400-500nm range is going to stimulate production of greater levels of terpenoids and those are responsible for smell and taste and can also affect the nature of the high, so adding all this LED light is bound to have some effects on smell and taste.
This could be very important research. For instance, I might find that I can stimulate much greater production of a terpenoid that is responsible for a particular moderation effect in combination with THC and be able to completely alter the perceptive effects of the buds. I.E. if a plant produces a quite speedy effect due to a terpene present in it and I can stimulate production of more of that terpene, I could make a slighty racy effect change into a heart-pounding thrillride! We shall see...
what is your dc power source? w/ such low wattage/intensity, should be able to place those lights very close to the plants... 2-4"? 1k's get 2-6" away from trees in imaginary garden...
tried to get a general tests/advanced techniques/experiments thread going here:
advanced techniques|experimental methods|tests|plant physiology+manipulation|env eng
in hopes of maybe sub-forum status some time in future... free to contribute as much as you desire...
member whazzup seems to be active in another forum in which there are all sorts of scientifically-grounded, double blind, double-redundant test being performed & peer/industry reviewed...
wont post link(s) here, but they just completed a hps/mh bulb vs. hps bulb test... very exacting & well done.
would be nice to have such a forum @ icmag...
*edit*
are you expecting alteration of the growth of the fruit, or the final effect of the fruit, or both, using the leds?
in fictitious garden, add mh for affect on final fruit quality, not for increased growth...
enjoy your garden!
Ah, Port & Guiness, very good for the health, full of iron etc. lol
As my granny used to say 'everything in moderation'
Good luck with those Sess beans, I have done my fair share of hunting through seeds from import weed over the years, and it's a total lottery, you get everything from the sheer quality of KC through all kinds of freaks and mutants to downright hemp!
If you find a plant with any one quality that is exceptional - smell, taste, high, it is unlikely to have many, if any other good characteristics for indoor growing, yield will probably not be great, flower time may be excessive etc. The art is to find the best individuals that have those exceptional characteristics then cross em to solid, reliable production strains and from there linebreed to select for those exceptional characteristics from the original but with added yield, shorter flower time etc inherited from the other half of the cross. Elevator Man has been doing precisely this with his Goldfinger work (Malawi Gold x Flo) and is now doing the same with J-Lo (Kentish Creme x Flo).
Infusing some fresh genes from outside the usual genepool can bring all kinds of benefits in terms of vigour, yield etc.
I fitted the four UV panels in the back right hand corner of my box. I'm going to fit four more panels with blue, white and UV LEDs directly above them, then this corner will be outfitted with 35W of supplemental LED lighting, mostly in the 380-480nm range, there is some 500-700 light from the white LEDs but this is by-the-by in terms of experiments as it's maybe 10% of the output of the 8 panels and is therefore insignificant given the presence of huge levels of light in this range from the 400w HPS burning a foot away in a cooltube.
I made a graph showing roughly the combined spectrum of the output from the 8 panels I am using for this experiment, it has a worrying gap in the 410-430nm range. I haven't seen any 420nm LEDs for sale. I have seen 410 and 415nm, 420 will be available I reckon. I shall go with the 8 panels I have for this first experiment. I can always add some 420nm LEDs to fill in that gap later.
As my granny used to say 'everything in moderation'
Good luck with those Sess beans, I have done my fair share of hunting through seeds from import weed over the years, and it's a total lottery, you get everything from the sheer quality of KC through all kinds of freaks and mutants to downright hemp!
If you find a plant with any one quality that is exceptional - smell, taste, high, it is unlikely to have many, if any other good characteristics for indoor growing, yield will probably not be great, flower time may be excessive etc. The art is to find the best individuals that have those exceptional characteristics then cross em to solid, reliable production strains and from there linebreed to select for those exceptional characteristics from the original but with added yield, shorter flower time etc inherited from the other half of the cross. Elevator Man has been doing precisely this with his Goldfinger work (Malawi Gold x Flo) and is now doing the same with J-Lo (Kentish Creme x Flo).
Infusing some fresh genes from outside the usual genepool can bring all kinds of benefits in terms of vigour, yield etc.
I fitted the four UV panels in the back right hand corner of my box. I'm going to fit four more panels with blue, white and UV LEDs directly above them, then this corner will be outfitted with 35W of supplemental LED lighting, mostly in the 380-480nm range, there is some 500-700 light from the white LEDs but this is by-the-by in terms of experiments as it's maybe 10% of the output of the 8 panels and is therefore insignificant given the presence of huge levels of light in this range from the 400w HPS burning a foot away in a cooltube.
I made a graph showing roughly the combined spectrum of the output from the 8 panels I am using for this experiment, it has a worrying gap in the 410-430nm range. I haven't seen any 420nm LEDs for sale. I have seen 410 and 415nm, 420 will be available I reckon. I shall go with the 8 panels I have for this first experiment. I can always add some 420nm LEDs to fill in that gap later.
interesting...
what is your dc power source? w/ such low wattage/intensity, should be able to place those lights very close to the plants... 2-4"? 1k's get 2-6" away from trees in imaginary garden...
tried to get a general tests/advanced techniques/experiments thread going here:
advanced techniques|experimental methods|tests|plant physiology+manipulation|env eng
in hopes of maybe sub-forum status some time in future... free to contribute as much as you desire...
member whazzup seems to be active in another forum in which there are all sorts of scientifically-grounded, double blind, double-redundant test being performed & peer/industry reviewed...
wont post link(s) here, but they just completed a hps/mh bulb vs. hps bulb test... very exacting & well done.
would be nice to have such a forum @ icmag...
*edit*
are you expecting alteration of the growth of the fruit, or the final effect of the fruit, or both, using the leds?
in fictitious garden, add mh for affect on final fruit quality, not for increased growth...
enjoy your garden!
Interesting. I am mega busy right now with LED construction and installation and need to fix my deficiencies in the garden so not got time to look at much else, but when I have time I shall have a look. I have done many months of research into the subject of LEDs, wavelengths for photosynthesis etc.
I am familiar with using a MH in the later stages of bloom to increase quality. I think this is because the blue part of the spectrum, which is stronger in a MH than a HPS is the cause ofthis as it stimulates the terpenoid production to higher levels and more terpenoids equates to increased smell and taste. Elevator man is accomplishing a similar think by augmenting a HPS with 6500k fluoro tubes.
I think the hopeful outcomes of this experiment are threefold:
1. To increase chlorophyll A stimulation through addition of blue light. Will this increase growth? If so, is it greater stem/leaf growth or greater flower growth? Is plant structure altered? Is phenotypical expression affected?
2. To increase terpenois stimulation through addition of blue light. How great is the increase in smell taste as a result? Is the high affected? How is the high affected?
3. To assess the impact of 380-400nm UVA light.
I think this is a reasonable basis for a small-scale experiment and a quite feasible set of aims. After I have done some experiments with UVA and blue light I will carry out some similar experiments using orange-red-infrared light in the 600-750nm range. There are chlorophyll absorption peaks in the 650-670nm range which are significant and need to be stimulated during flower production. Also, there are two phytochrome stimulation points at 660nm and 740nm, corresponding to phytochrome-r and phytochrome-fr respectively. Durign the day, 660nm deep red light stimulated the production of phytochrome-r. During the night when there is a good deal of 740nm near-infrared radiation about the phytochrome reverts into the -fr state. The trigger for flowering is when the night period is long enough for the reversion of phytochrome-r to -fr to occur. If using large amounts of 620-670nm red light during the 'day' as i plan to be doing with my second phase LED experiments, then what about 740nm for -fr reversion? Can I manipulate photoperiod and flowering response through use of 740nm infrared?
So many things to tryout and so few resources, but with some graft and head scratching I reckon I can achieve something worthwhile here and advance our knowledge of the relationship between our beloved herb and light energy. You never know, I might figure out how to grow better weed indoors along the way, my ultimate dream is to figure out how to make equatorial sativas fully mature indoors, fully expressing their potency and terpenoids. I suspect this will require replicating the light intensities found at the equator including the very high UVA and UVB levels which is not going to be easy, but I believe LEDs are probablythe best way to achieve this. The kind of light intensities required would mean huge volumes of heat to cope with if using conventional lighting technologies and it is only with LEDs that it is possible to intricately tweak the spectrum of light being applied to the plant in order to determine just what the plant needs to perform to it's best.
I'm hoping to place a cutting of the Highland Oaxacan Gold in this corner in a couple of weeks when all the LEDs are setup and working. I will place a second Oaxacan cutting in the opposite corner as a control to enable comparative assessment. I'm very keen to see that effect 35W of supplemental UVA and Blue light has on a tropical sativa. Elevator Man reported thinner leaflets on this
cutting when he added 6500k fluorescent lighting to his HPS grow.
I'll give full details of the electrical working of my LED setup when it's finished an working, ittook me a lot of research and learning to be able to design an efficient, effective system. I'm using a 65W Dell Laptop PSU to power them. It outputs 19.5V at 3.34A. The running current of the LEDs is 20mA and the v drop of each LED varies between 3.4 and 3.7v. There are 12 strings of 5 LEDs on each panel for a total of 60 LEDs. Each string requires 20mA so each panel requires 240mA. If I connect four panels in parallel, I create an array that in total, consumes 960mA. The voltage required is between 17 and 18v. I purchased a pair of constant current PSUs from ebay that output a constant 970mA and take upto 24v DC input, each one of these runs four panels. There are 48 strings of LEDs in each four panel array so if we divide the 970Ma current they receive, we get 20.2mA which is close enought to the 20mA rating of the LEDs. I should under-drive the LEDs at 10-15mA to lengthen their lifespan as they are cheap quality and I expect several to burn out in the first few weeks of operation, but this is an experimental lighting system intended for a short lifespan of maybe a year, just long enough to carry out experiments so I'm running them at their max specified rating for the max output of light and sod how long they last. If 10-15% of the LEDs out of the 480 I am using fail over 12 months, then that is ot a problem, other forms of lighting lose lumens over their lifespan too.
So I will have a 65W Dell laptop PSU dellivering 19.5v, 3.34A to a pair of 970mA constant current power supplies, each one running a 240-LED array made up of four 60-LED panels, total power consumption of about 38W, of which, 34W is consumed by the LEDs, making the efficiency of the device around 90% which is pretty good.
I've fitted the other four panels which are three of the UV/Blue/White and one Blue/White. I calculate I now have 495 LEDs in this corner of my box which breaks down like this:
60 x UV-A 385nm
60 x UV-A 390nm
184 x UV-A 400nm
95 x Blue 460nm
96 x White 6500K
It hasn't escaped me that I am lacking red spectrum light, but as I said before, this is an experiment to see what effects UV-A and Blue light has, the second experiment will be with red light.
60 x UV-A 385nm
60 x UV-A 390nm
184 x UV-A 400nm
95 x Blue 460nm
96 x White 6500K
It hasn't escaped me that I am lacking red spectrum light, but as I said before, this is an experiment to see what effects UV-A and Blue light has, the second experiment will be with red light.
these may be helpful:
UV Light and Terpenoids
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=139726
This is a gold mine of cannabis growing laboratory research
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=127379
@ post 7 in ^ thread... from previous incarnation:
more technical lighting data in the link as well... keep the
(fire) going...
enjoy your garden!
UV Light and Terpenoids
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=139726
This is a gold mine of cannabis growing laboratory research
https://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=127379
@ post 7 in ^ thread... from previous incarnation:
building the pyranometer may be worthwhile in measuring your output & input (in photons) to the plant(s)... & future experiments
more technical lighting data in the link as well... keep the
(fire) going...enjoy your garden!
