Ceramic Metal Halide (CMH)

[fatigues]

The information in this thread is great and convinced me to buy 2x 400w CMH bulbs.

But for all that, it has become too inaccessible to a lot of noobs Simba. While we can argue that the value of information won dearly and shared with only truly patient enthusiasts has its just rewards... still. It would be a real benefit to users on ICM if a CMH faq was released integrating the information scattered throughout the thread into one reasonably coherent document.

 

[whatissixbynine]

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[cashmunny]

that should do it, direct comparisons ~_^

Unless I'm missing something these are the same graphs shown before that use relative energy units. Which means the curves have been normalized to some arbitrary constant such that the peak = 100. Which is fine for comparing relative output for each bulb individually, but is deceiving when it comes to comparing bulbs to each other since they are normalized using different constants.

 

[simba]

just a thougt but even if the 100 isnt at the same level the overall spd says it has more energy.(especially where we want 420-480ish & 610-680ish vs hps at 600nm aka the weakest input range of plant)
. i dont know how to explain in a simple yet good way..
ok lets take the P CMH 4k to a EYE blue ya we cant compare peak to peak exact but the overall spd and the output in each nm the cmh still wins.. especially for a one bulb..
AKA even without knowing the exact answer to there 100 when you are compare the range its not what we are comparing.. (i dont think any one has said cmh has more x at x range that we cant all agree on akd 650nm range no hps is peaking there vs cmh..

also lets remember the side by of hps vs cmh is Philips own and if you compare the hps in it to the hps chart in there agro comparison you will see its the same.. so i have to say at least in hps vs cmh the chart is prety close..100 to 100.. (they are comparing there own standard hps to there cmh)

 

[hoosierdaddy]

I must be an idiot, because I still don't see what you are trying to warn us about, cashmunny.
First off, the relative energy graphs are the same, so we have to assume we are looking at the same energy release for each bulb at any given nanometer, yes?

If I look to see what number is given for the CMH at say at 470 nanometers...we see it reaches a value of about 30. The HPS bulb at that same wavelength shows us a number of about 10. I can easily see the comparisons, and it matters not what "peak" the "normalized" from. The comparative information seems correct. But then you come in and claim it is hokey.
Tell me exactly how my example is not showing me correct comparative information?

 

[whatissixbynine]

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[asde]

just a thougt but even if the 100 isnt at the same level the overall spd says it has more energy.(especially where we want 420-480ish & 610-680ish vs hps at 600nm aka the weakest input range of plant)

hps puts out more energy 610-680nm than the retro wite and hps puts out more light overall too. remember we talk about retro white cmh which isnt even a good cmh unlike the small wattage cmh or the new cmh models like hci-tm or the upcoming cdm-tmw, i would never flower under a 4200k anyways - good the new ones are available in 3k too and have an even higher output than the small wattage cmh's

 

[whatissixbynine]

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[simba]

hps puts out more energy 610-680nm than the retro wite and hps puts out more light overall too.

remember we talk about retro white cmh which isnt even a good cmh unlike the small wattage cmh or the new cmh models like hci-tm or the upcoming cdm-tmw,

i would never flower under a 4200k anyways - good the new ones are available in 3k too and have an even higher output than the small wattage cmh's

few things..
1.. what.. Uhm no.. and even if so.. lets look at it this way one watt of 650nm is few watts at 600nm so you can use less because its at the input range..
(that's the super short version)

2. again what.hci-tm is osram ..first off. the CDM MW is the only threat to cmh 4k . the new cmh's that are higher LPW vs the current cmh 4k.. ya i have those and a few testers. and have you seen the costs.. for the lamp and ballasts vs hps retro white.. try
oh and there NOT OPEN RATED> HUGE DEAL>>

3. have you seen the 3k spd.. its half red half green/yellow.. (like very little blue IE Streatch is back.. and a bit of energy is totally wasted. (3k has its place)
also to that the cdm mw 315 watt that does output more lumen than the current 4k cmh doesn't do aswell with plants under it.. (have a few testers with them).. (there is a new spd that is going to be used. that give the same lumen but more energy where we want..)

also i find it funny cmh spd is called into question when they are not promoted by mfr for horti use rather commercial wich as any one in lighting knows commercial lamps specs are pretty close to actuate allot more than any thing in horti world..

bottom line.the cmh spd is closer to acurate than any horti bulb yet they are taken for there word.. (most cases)

asde correct me if im wrong but do you have any data saying we are wrong... (not startin nothin rather have a fair debate)

and bottom line.. any one in horticulture will say and aggree full spd for any stage of plant life is better than hps or mh ie thats why they made fixtures for both mh and hps use at the same time.. and why eye sells there blue for 109.. higher than there hps bulb..
hmm.. aswell as 2 years of only compaints about minor things.. none yet saying total bs.. (never happen either as its the next stage in lighting)
honestly i think some are scared about cmh taking over there diehard hps ops.. and showing them up.. (k that was not greatest to say.. but these arguments against are unfounded..at current time)

 

[whatissixbynine]

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[Maj.Cottonmouth]

I have two ballasts from HTG recommend in this thread that I am happy with, if you call them you can get some money off if you have them not send the HPS bulb and I would assume you could have them not include the hood to save a little more.

http://www.htgsupply.com/viewproduct.asp?productID=47929

 

[truthseeker]

hello everybody, i really understand that cmh lampshave theperfect spectrum
i am starting a pc grow my self and i wanna go with the 150w master color phillips option

which one should choose the 3000 or the 4000 one?

and then i read smth about differencies in european and american bulbs, that goes for the mastercolour also????

will i have any kind of problem if i buy a master colour phillips fromeurope???

something that I AM REALLY interested about would be a complete electronic 150w ballast suitable for this bulb

something like the lumatek for the 600etc but for the phillips master colour 150w
in other words

what is the best ballast i can get for this lamp up to 250$ sayand one under 200$

link to my pc grow:
http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=148005&page=3

i ve harvested hps 600w+400win the past , time to go micro!

anyhelp will be ultimately appreciated

 

[asde]

simba do you remember knna's sheet? its a wonderful tool to save hours of calculations and it still works.. give it a try and see on your own that you lost this round

 

[cashmunny]

heh hoosierdaddy, unfortunately he's right. These are kinda like soft units. We need something that's been measured thats NOT relative energy.

I still think its valid enough, but remember directly related units? Well if the normalizing constants are different, the scale of how the data is INTERPERATED is different, like a teacher who has 20 of 30 students score a 40 and normalizes the scores up to 60

like extra credit for effort, those 10 bonus points count for 20 instead on the fly - like zooming in..

this

 

[truthseeker]

ehm why am i being ignored? :'( ' ''

 

[whatissixbynine]

this

eh?

ehm why am i being ignored? :'( ' ''

your not, i saw it! just dont know, i'm not one of the 'thread gods' ^^

 

[asde]

ehm why am i being ignored? :'( ' ''

the 3k is the better option for flowering, the 4k is decent too but for best performance only the 3k is worth, as for the ballast, i use the philips primavision and its one kick ass ballast, very high efficiency resulting in very low heat and its super silent too:

http://www.lighting.philips.com/in_...arent=hu_hu&id=in_en_ele_con_gear__pr&lang=hu

 

[hoosierdaddy]

this

Thing is, these graphs are compiled from software that uses the data from the testing apparatus. No normalizing...just energy release at any given wavelength within a range.
Now, only of we assume that 0 is not 0 and 100 is not really 100, could we find there to be a difference in the results of the graph. Is that what you are claiming here?

Which brings me back to the point that one has to assume they are trying to deceive us, and I see no reason to assume as such. And without some sort of proof, are we not also conducting dirty business practices by making claims without a clear show as to precisely how they are deceiving us?

Answer me this then,

If I look to see what number is given for the CMH at say at 470 nanometers...we see it reaches a value of about 30. The HPS bulb at that same wavelength shows us a number of about 10. I can easily see the comparisons, and it matters not what "peak" the "normalized" from. The comparative information seems correct. But then you come in and claim it is hokey.
Tell me exactly how my example is not showing me correct comparative information?

And try to use more than one word, please.

 

[truthseeker]

MAAAAAAAAAAAAAN THAT WAS
SOOOOOOOOOOOO
WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR

cant thank you enough.....really cant
about the europe thing, do you have anyidea if i will have problem if i buy bulb and primavision from europe????

about the 3000-4000thing if i start with the 4000 and switch to 3000 on 12/12 will be perfect????
and what about 3000 flowering advantages? what supreme results will have a 3000 budded plant against to a 4000 one????

also thx for the feedback whatissixbynine

 

[truthseeker]

the 3k is the better option for flowering, the 4k is decent too but for best performance only the 3k is worth, as for the ballast, i use the philips primavision and its one kick ass ballast, very high efficiency resulting in very low heat and its super silent too:

http://www.lighting.philips.com/in_...arent=hu_hu&id=in_en_ele_con_gear__pr&lang=hu

man ur extremely wellcome to monitor my pc case construction, im sure there is more to be gained by you

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?p=2944710&posted=1