charcoal/active carbon in soil mix?

[spiralofeyes]

I read a post by a guy saying he used charcoal as a perlite substitute.
Perlite is a seaonal thing around these parts and for some reason expensive as hell.This guy(who's name escapes me) said he found wood charcoal to be superior to perlite,especially if re-using the soil.More porous,thus housing more bacteria and longer lasting then perlite.
would charcoal or spent AC from my filter adversely effect my soil mix?

 

[jaykush]

search for our terra preta thread, wait actually there is a link in the organic reference library sticky. sand is also a good perlite replacement, if you dont have to lift and move your plants everywhere.

 

[spiralofeyes]

Gracias jay!I use coarse shell sand as a perlite subsitute,but the weight of the soil bin is killing me,so I'd love to cut down on it.Its supposed to have long term ph benefits for the soil so I'd like to keep some,maybe 10% instead of the 30% I've added to the current batch I'm using and the one cooking for next run. I shall roll a fattie and read up on terra preta. Thanks again man!

 

[JackTheGrower]

I am using the AC pellet in the yard mostly.. Takes about 2 years to break down.

I believe we all use clean "Char" in our soil mixes.. Good stuff

 

[jaykush]

spiralofeyes i can relate, i only use sand when planting in the ground now. i did use it in pots before but got tired of moving the heavy ones. im sure one could figure out a way around that problem though.

the charcoal does help long term, in fact if someone was going to do a terra preta like mix and toss it at the end, it would not be worth it imo. though it does provide some short term benefits ( moisture holding, nutrient holding, and a few others) i find the benefits come after a few "cycles" (outdoors that would be in seasons) 10% is a great start. and then i would start adding the charcoal dust to your composting/vermicomposting process if you have one. to slowly add more little by little over time. and this way the char is already "charged" with nutrient and micro organisms.

 

[big_daddy]

BioChar

BioChar

I read a post by a guy saying he used charcoal as a perlite substitute.
Perlite is a seaonal thing around these parts and for some reason expensive as hell.This guy(who's name escapes me) said he found wood charcoal to be superior to perlite,especially if re-using the soil.More porous,thus housing more bacteria and longer lasting then perlite.
would charcoal or spent AC from my filter adversely effect my soil mix?

There's some interesting science with the use of charcoal in the agricultural world. Thought this link would be interesting.(Biochar )

 

[spiralofeyes]

Thanks you guys!
After reading(and re-reading) the terra preta thread I'm gonna add 10% charcoal to my next soil mix. As mentioned this 10% will be taken out of the 30% coarse shell sand I'm using at present. I'll cook the charcoal with some fish mix,kelp extract,ewc tea and perhaps some nettle tea for a month or so before mixing into the soil.
The soil itself will be re used peat/sand/perlite with the the roots still in from last run.Three males from this run were also sliced up and thrown in the bin two weeks ago. I'll be adding ewc and some kitchen scraps this week and then letting it cook for another 4 weeks.I'm hoping the clones and seedlings will love it

Any obvious flaws? Should I get barbecue charcoal(I know I can't use briquettes,lol)?
would it be bad to use spent AC pellets?

 

[JackTheGrower]

Thanks you guys!
After reading(and re-reading) the terra preta thread I'm gonna add 10% charcoal to my next soil mix. As mentioned this 10% will be taken out of the 30% coarse shell sand I'm using at present. I'll cook the charcoal with some fish mix,kelp extract,ewc tea and perhaps some nettle tea for a month or so before mixing into the soil.
The soil itself will be re used peat/sand/perlite with the the roots still in from last run.Three males from this run were also sliced up and thrown in the bin two weeks ago. I'll be adding ewc and some kitchen scraps this week and then letting it cook for another 4 weeks.I'm hoping the clones and seedlings will love it

Any obvious flaws? Should I get barbecue charcoal(I know I can't use briquettes,lol)?
would it be bad to use spent AC pellets?

I'm not sure on the "organic-ness" of steamed coal but So far I have used it in some compost coffee tests, testing the effect acidic liquids have on the spent AC pellets..
I'm not so worried on the organic vapors from a grow room in the pellet just the unknown coal origin??
I'm open to any info on using the spent AC pellets..

I think the purist will make his own bio-char.. I have a little stove I use..

Not sure which commercial charcoal is the right stuff..

 

[jaykush]

I'll cook the charcoal with some fish mix,kelp extract,ewc tea and perhaps some nettle tea for a month or so before mixing into the soil.

when you say this do you mean in a soil mix or in a liquid?

The soil itself will be re used peat/sand/perlite with the the roots still in from last run.Three males from this run were also sliced up and thrown in the bin two weeks ago. I'll be adding ewc and some kitchen scraps this week and then letting it cook for another 4 weeks.I'm hoping the clones and seedlings will love it

i would skip the kitchen scraps to be honest. they are much better suited for a wormbin. i guess if you chopped it small enough theres a chance it will be gone come planting time. seedlings and clones dont need its thats for sure. seedlings just need water, warmths and light.

Any obvious flaws? Should I get barbecue charcoal(I know I can't use briquettes,lol)?
would it be bad to use spent AC pellets?

if your going to use charcoal from the store. use 100% natural wood charcoal. some brands i have used are lizzari, cowboy, red oak, and a few local brands. the hardest part about this way is getting the chunks to the right size. when making your own biochar you can select materials that are already small, so after its charred no need to smash. but there is nothing wrong with the store char, works great!

 

[spiralofeyes]

I got the idea in my head that the charcoal needed to be cooked with some organics before being added to the soil.Is this unnecessary?
At jay's urging,kitchen scraps will be replaced by a little biobizz pre-mix(mushroom compost,organic amendments,various rock meals and fungal/bacterial spores according to the label).
You've inspired me to make my own char from sticks and branches from my own yard.I'll char them nice and slow in the fireplace. Much better than store bought,I'd wager

Thanks for all your help guys. This next is for you!

 

[jaykush]

I got the idea in my head that the charcoal needed to be cooked with some organics before being added to the soil.Is this unnecessary?

yes it helps if you do it, think about it. charcoal is known to absorb things. its ued to purify water, clean smells, etc... you can soak it first in a compost tea or nutrient tea, amend it and let the soil "cure" or put it through a composting process this way its got both microbes and nutrients ready to go along with fresh compost. kitchen scraps need to be decomposed before they are of any value to the plant and are best composted first by pile or worms.

great your making your own, let us know how that comes and post it in the terra preta thread.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Doesn't char act on the level of humus?

I relate it to nearly stable humus with the benefit of a long lasting carbon source.

That's the way I see it.. It's a good thing to have in a long term soil afaik.

 

[JackTheGrower]

Hey a quick question.

I never hear of any of us using coconut carbon but for odor control and then soil additive would coconut be ideal?

Considering a normal organic grow room vapor situation.

 

[ganja din]

I read a post by a guy saying he used charcoal as a perlite substitute.
Perlite is a seaonal thing around these parts and for some reason expensive as hell.This guy(who's name escapes me) said he found wood charcoal to be superior to perlite,especially if re-using the soil.More porous,thus housing more bacteria and longer lasting then perlite.
would charcoal or spent AC from my filter adversely effect my soil mix?

I would stay away from AC. Real charcoal, or better yet bio-char made via "pyrolysis" is best and most environmentally sound.

A few quick notes:

• Charcoal can increase the activity of AM fungi.
• .
• Charcoal has a decent CEC, maybe better than perlite, off hand I am unsure.
• .
• Perlite will last longer than charcoal. Charcoal will be broken down by microbes faster than perlite.
• .
• Perlite will 'float' to the media surface over time (big negative)
• .
• Charcoal is a better habitat for microbes than perlite (in my understanding)
• .
• If you make your own biochar via the cheap and easy double barrel "pyrolysis" method, I assume your biochar would be more environmentally sound to produce than the methods to produce perlite.
• .
• Charcoal will hold more water than perlite, and that to me is a show stopper. I would say charcoal is a better replacement for vermiculite than perlite.
• .
• To me, an ideal 'perlite' replace is "axis", "regular" size.

HTH

 

[ganja din]

Edit:

I found my notes on the CEC of perlite. It is very low! I can't imagine charcoal have a lower CEC than perlite (1.5 - 3.5 meq/100g).

HTH

 

[Chesticles]

hey ganja din, who have a link to an online supplier of AXIS, did a google search but it's hard to find, is it any different than diatomaceous earth used for insect control? i've got some of that but only dust the top of my soil w/ it at the moment

 

[ganja din]

Hey,

Here ya go. Axis is the future IMO! It's kiln fired DE, with ideal pore size of ~0.9 micron, which means the roots have a very easy time extracting ~90% of water held within the pores of Axis. And it's CEC is good too.

I use Axis regular in place of perlite AND vermiculite

Axis: http://www.axisplayball.com/AXIS.htm

Hort. Applications: http://www.epminerals.com/landscape-copy.html


Axis "regular":

• Large pores (average pore size for is +/-0.9 micron...ideal size!)

• Very low water tension

• High water release rate (90%)

• Particle size = 70% of axis "regular" is 1/8"

• CEC = ~27 meq/100g (perlite is ~1.2-3.5 meq/100g)

Sources:

• Western US:

EnviroTech Soil Solutions, Inc. (based in PNW) http://www.axisplayball.com/AXIS.htm
Call 866-546-3722

• Eastern/Southen/Northern US:

EaglePicher Filtration & Minerals, Inc. (they are the ones who make Axis) http://www.epcorp.com/EaglePicherInternet/Filtration_Minerals/
Call 775-824-7600

• Western Canada [maybe Eastern too]:

Turf Canada

NOTE:
Make sure you get Axis "regular", it is about $15.00 per cu ft(25lbs)...not too expensive when it's only part of the mix and it's so beneficial and it means you don't have to by perlite and/or vermiculite...hell, you could reuse the mix indefinitely if you choose

 

[Chesticles]

thanks gd

 

[ganja din]

np

 

[jaykush]

stick with char from the store or make your own biochar. activated charcoal works in some ways, but you do not get the full benefits of biochar. also, activated charcoal costs A LOT more. a waste of money, if one buys AC you should use it for smell control.