indoor organic soil yield/ all others?

[happyhi]

can indoor organic in soiless using minimal organic ferts and maximum active biology assuming identical growing conditions, including strain, produce equal quantity and quality to any other form of growing? /

Is there a loss factor by doing it organically that is un avoidable.

Peace/ HH
o

 

[maryjohn]

Indoor can never match outdoor IMO.

 

[magiccannabus]

I believe indoor quality can match outdoor, but yield... not bloody likely unless you throw absurd amounts of light at it and use huge pots. Either way, any method you grow with has limitations, and benefits. Maybe you should be asking what gains you'll get from a given method. Organic does not automatically mean less yield. I think its a misunderstanding of organic gardening, or perhaps even purposeful misdirection by the chemical fertilizer industry that makes people think yield will be worse. My plants are healthier than they were with chemicals, and in the end I benefit if nothing else from more of them staying healthy through the whole grow. In addition they don't need watered as often. Perhaps the only thing they seem to be more susceptible to is heat, as this can cook the soil biology and cause thermophilic bacteria to populate and beneficials to die. No route is perfect, because perfect is pretty subjective to each grower.

 

[etinarcadiaego]

GREAT ANSWER!

 

[VerdantGreen]

presuming that you were referring to indoor growing, i personally dont think you give up any yeild by growing organically. i get yeilds between 1g/watt and 1.5g/watt with all the strains i have tried so far - and i havent seen anyone claiming bigger yeilds than that using any other method.

what you do get is better tasting, smelling and smoking bud.

V.

 

[jaykush]

Indoor can never match outdoor IMO

outdoor done right, some people treat there outdoor plants like crap. not knowing the true potential and power of the sun.

 

[happyhi]

I believe indoor quality can match outdoor, but yield... not bloody likely unless you throw absurd amounts of light at it and use huge pots. Either way, any method you grow with has limitations, and benefits. Maybe you should be asking what gains you'll get from a given method. Organic does not automatically mean less yield. I think its a misunderstanding of organic gardening, or perhaps even purposeful misdirection by the chemical fertilizer industry that makes people think yield will be worse. My plants are healthier than they were with chemicals, and in the end I benefit if nothing else from more of them staying healthy through the whole grow. In addition they don't need watered as often. Perhaps the only thing they seem to be more susceptible to is heat, as this can cook the soil biology and cause thermophilic bacteria to populate and beneficials to die. No route is perfect, because perfect is pretty subjective to each grower.

thank you for such a great answer! it leads me to ask if you could elaborate on the heat issue as i do grow in containers, and i have switched from chems to organic for many reasons first and foremost of which is it just seems to make good sense from every perspective. i have had great success using nutes so i know they work but am confident that i can do it without all the bottles. please elaborate on the heat issue if possible.
peace HH

 

[happyhi]

presuming that you were referring to indoor growing, i personally dont think you give up any yeild by growing organically. i get yeilds between 1g/watt and 1.5g/watt with all the strains i have tried so far - and i havent seen anyone claiming bigger yeilds than that using any other method.

what you do get is better tasting, smelling and smoking bud.

V.

wow, that is a serious yield using any method, i have never heard of anyone pulling three lbs from a 1k light, bravo!
what would you say is the secret to your success?
peace
HH

 

[magiccannabus]

thank you for such a great answer! it leads me to ask if you could elaborate on the heat issue as i do grow in containers, and i have switched from chems to organic for many reasons first and foremost of which is it just seems to make good sense from every perspective. i have had great success using nutes so i know they work but am confident that i can do it without all the bottles. please elaborate on the heat issue if possible.
peace HH

Congrats on walking into the wonderful world of organics, without all the nasty stuff we used to smoke without even realizing it.

The heat issue is simple really. The soil becomes too hot sometimes and the conditions become inhospitable to the beneficials, and start to attract bad bacteria. Worse, the heat reduces the oxygen levels in the soil enormously. I've found that when a plant in organics suffers a bad heat wave, not treating it fairly quickly with compost tea can make it hard to even save the plant at all.

Moisture in the medium seems to worsen the problem. When things are hot in the grow, I keep them on just enough water to get by. The soil can even take on a bad odor if there's extra water in it. Walking the fine line of just enough water can be tough.

This is all my experience though, I am sure other people have scientific data on this. I'd be surprised if they didn't, it seems like an obvious thing to study.

 

[maryjohn]

For interesting talk of soil temps, find sone people discussing cultivation of darlingtonia, which is native to the pacific nw us.

People have all kinds of systems from ice cubes top dressed to elaborate cooling units. They may have some useful tips.

 

[VerdantGreen]

wow, that is a serious yield using any method, i have never heard of anyone pulling three lbs from a 1k light, bravo!
what would you say is the secret to your success?
peace
HH

thanks HH. actually my set-up is more modest than that, a 250hps in a cab just over 2x2 feet. and sorry to blow my own trumpet but i just broke my own record with a Dr Atomic NL - getting 1.6 grams/watt.
i wish i knew the secret! - but i would say the major factors are:

1. Distance from buds to light - the more you can get to the optimum distance, the more decent colas you will get. (5-6 inches for a 250). i find scrog the best way to achieve this.
2. Big pots. i use the biggest i can fit into my cab. last run wat 4 x 12 litres. this run i have cut the rims off some 15 litre ones so i can squeeze them in.
3. Veg them for a long time. i do 4-6 weeks unless i know them to be very stretchy.
4. flower them for a long time - this way you get better smoke and more weight (the NL mentioned above was flowered for 10 weeks)
5. Buy a good reflector - i use an ecotechnics diamond. i reckon it gives me more light going downwards.

having said all that, quality should be the major concern for the home grower, i have considerable trouble smoking all the weed i get from my cab and i would happily sacrifice yield for quality every time.

good luck.

V.

p.s. check out my grow diary for more details.

 

[happyhi]

looking to improve

looking to improve

this is what came of a quasi organic grow, quasi because i was still using
some expensive bottled crap that was supposed to be the magic pixie
dust but is really just shit in a fancy package.
happy to say i am brewing tea like a madman and spraying it over my entire half acre garden and it is doing wonders. Our apple/fig/lemon/tomatoes/ herbs
and every darn plant is looking better after two ACT sprays. Hats off to
the KIS people, that shit works.
i'm holding some very special seeds given to me by last years cup winner so i
on pain of death can't screw up. looking for any special soil mixes that will take me thru without adding anything but water and ACT.
thanks to all who replied with great stuff.

 

[maryjohn]

Verdant, I notice most of your comments had to do with light. I have noticed the same thing outside. If you really want to get good yields, look to your light. All our arguments about soil seem trite compared to lighting.

Bravo, btw. Those are very impressive results. Im wondering if I should add a third bin to my setup, completely filled with soil instead of using pots. But I would lose some mobility. Moving from cfl is not an option. I just can't justify burning that much juice for recreation (not to the wife anyway).

 

[VerdantGreen]

hi mj - i think a soil bed would work well and i thought your rubbermaid setup looked very well thought out fwiw

as for light (how many watts are you using?) i think many people make the mistake of having too many watts/squared foot,and whilst you may get slightly better buds this way, you wont get a better yield as grams/watt. i cant post a link but i read a study one time that said the most efficient was 60-70 watts per square foot - and after that you get diminishing returns from the extra light. if you shoehorn a 400 into a space that would be adequately lit by a 250 then your yield will suffer.

would a 150hps be any good for you? - they are pretty cheep to run 12 hours/day...

having said that people get perfectly good results from cfl too

 

[maryjohn]

Hmm I am using 6 42 watt bulbs during 12/12.

That's close to your total wattage, which is not what I had assumed. This has me thinking. How do the two compare heat wise? I'm already running 11 degrees above ambient and blew some money on ac this summer. My design sacrifices some ventilation for stealth. It's mostly redgreenry's design, not mine. I thought he should get to name it so it is called the super simple stacker.

I really miss outdoor, but I do enjoy watching them grow instead of visiting once a month.

 

[Mr. Greengenes]

I think we can agree with MJ that outdoor is the yardstick to measure all other methods' quantity and quality against. I'm with VerdantGreen on the idea that organic methods outyield all others, I'm not sure where people get info to the contrary. I've learned not to mention my grams per watt per month (hint hint VG!) because it just gets people too fired up and I've got little patience for verbal jousting.

One thing for certain about organic methods of gardening in general is; less work. If you're worrying about absolute control over each and every detail of organic gardening, you're doing it wrong. Trust the soil, it's smarter than you are. The benifit of less work is more time to spend on observing and adjusting your skills to greater perfection. Indoors, organic container growing comes closest to outdoors. That's why it outyields and outclasses hydro for quality. Remember, there's limits to technology, but there's no limit to your knowledge or skills.

 

[Hank Hemp]

K.I.S.S.

K.I.S.S.

I think we can agree with MJ that outdoor is the yardstick to measure all other methods' quantity and quality against. I'm with VerdantGreen on the idea that organic methods outyield all others, I'm not sure where people get info to the contrary. I've learned not to mention my grams per watt per month (hint hint VG!) because it just gets people too fired up and I've got little patience for verbal jousting.

One thing for certain about organic methods of gardening in general is; less work. If you're worrying about absolute control over each and every detail of organic gardening, you're doing it wrong. Trust the soil, it's smarter than you are. The benifit of less work is more time to spend on observing and adjusting your skills to greater perfection. Indoors, organic container growing comes closest to outdoors. That's why it outyields and outclasses hydro for quality. Remember, there's limits to technology, but there's no limit to your knowledge or skills.

Keep it simple.

 

[VerdantGreen]

.... I've learned not to mention my grams per watt per month (hint hint VG!) because it just gets people too fired up and I've got little patience for verbal jousting.

its a fair comment, but i guess i am quite proud of it - i wouldnt do so well on grams/watt/month because i tend to have quite slow flowering strains and i think i also delay flowering for a week or so by repotting when i flip.

i'll try keep yield talk to my grow diary...

for me it is also a measure of the efficiency of my grow - i didnt grow under lights for a while due to the eco impact so now that i do i try and get the most out of those watts as possible

V.

 

[CT Guy]

Keep it simple.

You forgot the last "S," which stands for "stupid!"

I've also heard the "MORON" term used to describe gardens, in that they're always trying to put "more on" when in reality less is usually more.

 

[VerdantGreen]

Hmm I am using 6 42 watt bulbs during 12/12.

That's close to your total wattage, which is not what I had assumed. This has me thinking. How do the two compare heat wise? I'm already running 11 degrees above ambient and blew some money on ac this summer. My design sacrifices some ventilation for stealth. It's mostly redgreenry's design, not mine. I thought he should get to name it so it is called the super simple stacker.

I really miss outdoor, but I do enjoy watching them grow instead of visiting once a month.

i'm not totally sure on the heat thing but i suspect the 250 hps wouldnt be too much hotter, but a 150 would be worth considering too - you want 60-70 watts/square foot.

outdoor would be much better but in my climate 90% of strains are ruled out if you want a reliable harvest. and they smell.

V.