Humboldt Natural Nutrients

[LadyLargely]

Hehe, I see Humboldt is getting a new asshole installed, but really guys, all of those designer liquid organics are the same.

I find it just so difficult to believe that this shit is a surprise to anyone. Seriously, how the fuck are you guys surprised by this shit!?

50, 75, 100, or even 150 dollars a gallon? Come the fuck on! How could anyone believe that shit is worth it!? What did you think they where putting in there? Fairy dust? Powdered gold? There is nothing that could be added to a gallon of water to make it that fucking valuable for growing plants.

All designer liquid organics are this way. I don't care if they aren't quite as much of a rip as Humboldt. They are all a ripoff! The only organic products you should be buying are high-quality powdered organic substances from reputable dealers. Sunleaves guano, bonide fish emulsion, Espoma bio tone; these are the kinds of things you need.

And 170.00 for a fucking organic tea maker? You guys are outta your goddamn minds! How do you get a fucking 5 gallon bucket and a crappy air pump and some hose to cost 170 motherfucking United States cash federal dollars!?!?!?!

Lunacy! All of it! A whole run of 5 plants under 350 watts costs me less than 5 bucks in nutrients for the whole way through! And thats counting my I-know-its-too-expensive mycorrhizae concentrate! Organic gardeners need to be making their own tea with their own equipment. Stop being victims! The fact that pot is illegal lets these slimy nute salesmen get away with these ludicrous prices! The only thing that allows a gallon of basic organic material to be sold for triple-digit prices is IGNORANCE!!!

 

[maryjohn]

I just stopped using bonide fish hydrolysate. Printed in gray and difficult to see on the label is an indication it is descented. Too bad- it is half the price of neptunes harvest, which I am also going to stop using if I determine it is supporting the destructive purse seining for menhaden in the chesapeake region.

Espoma biotone though, is a terriffic product for home gardener, plus it smells like dusty chocolate.

I will disagree with your characterization of consumers though. Given the information at hand and the value of the harvest, these nutrients appear to be a good value, and growers are generally satisfied with the results, unaware they have parasites. If we can eliminate or reduce the information advantage of the grow industry we can convert it to something useful or better yet support our local garden centers.

 

[LadyLargely]

I just stopped using bonide fish hydrolysate. Printed in gray and difficult to see on the label is an indication it is descented. Too bad- it is half the price of neptunes harvest, which I am also going to stop using if I determine it is supporting the destructive purse seining for menhaden in the chesapeake region.

Espoma biotone though, is a terriffic product for home gardener, plus it smells like dusty chocolate.

I will disagree with your characterization of consumers though. Given the information at hand and the value of the harvest, these nutrients appear to be a good value, and growers are generally satisfied with the results, unaware they have parasites. If we can eliminate or reduce the information advantage of the grow industry we can convert it to something useful or better yet support our local garden centers.

Absolutely!

Honey, you slightly misinterpret my rant. Ignorance is not something to be held against someone, nore is it necessarily a characterization of that person. I think it has a lot more to say about the society to which these consumers belong!

Given that the hundred dollar bottle of (if you are lucky) high-quality organic nutrient concentrate combined with a skilled gardener can produce thousands of dollars worth of illegal marijuana in a single harvest and then do that several more times before the bottle runs out, yea, its not an absurd amount of money.

But you see, I refuse to exchange United States federal currency for what they declare to be 'illicit narcotics'. As soon as you decide to be this way then those prices get put not in the context of a quadruple-digit-dollar harvest but of my typical budget, which is tight indeed.

Its the fact that, arbitrarily, the environment exists to where a pound of ordinary plant matter can be worth as much as a good used car. That is absurd, cannabis is an easy plant to grow. This false economy is what has created the niche market for these mega-pricey fertilizers.

As a responsible cannabis user and one who seeks to eventually see this false economy changed I do not look at the from-a-black-market-perspective-reasonable decision that these consumers have made as truly reasonable. I think that the people who sell these nutrients, knowing full well that the only reason they can market such a thing is because of the massive profit margins made possible by black-market marijuana sales, are no better than the selfish bureaucratic assholes who are responsible for this black market existing in the first place.

Fuck that. Fuck them. Fuck 100 dollar a gallon organic nutrients. Its just not tolerable!

Uhh, *ahem* rant over, all better now


You're right, I'm not generally down with Bonide as a company on a whole. Their "all-organic" products and environmental responsibility are spotty in places.

I was aware of the issue with the hydrolysate, I don't use it. See, when I do have to buy something rather than make/scrounge it up myself I go backwards from most consumers:

Most people decide on a company to buy from and then just get the products they need which that company provides. I realize that in the modern world of a very tangled global economy a single company has products with many different suppliers and manufacturing practices.

I prefer to single out the type of produce I need based on my needs and then browse among companies with a good price/performance/responsibility ratio. This takes more work and researching a lot about how specific products are made, but as a picky consumer I like to be informed.

The only Bonide products I use are their Tomato Blossom and Set Spray and their Fish Emulsion (2-4-0).

Glad to see another Bio Tone lover! That shit is amazing and I wish the market had more things like it. As popular as bagged soil mixes like FFOF and such are I think its all a little expensive and unneccessary. Normal well-selected soil mixed with a moderate amount of some decent ammendments and pre-loaded with a wee bit of bio-active organic matirial like Bio Tone will get you an end product thats just as good, if not better! And certainly it will be a hell-of-a-lot cheaper. Go local with your soil; generate your own compost and if you can't do that you'd be amazed at how much better locally-sourced compost can be than crap bagged soils. Stuff like that is raw and stinky and a bit hard to work with but can be made into really good medium on the cheap.

I don't care how environmentally friendly the process for producing something like Fox Farms FFOF is. I'm creating much less environmental impact by getting some local soil and ammending it myself. Shipping my little 3 pound bag of Bio Tone has nothing like the impact of shipping enough 20 pound bags of FFOF every time you need to fill a pot for ganja!

Self-sufficency is the key to a lower impact! I don't care what the labels say on the things that you buy, this is the real way to be environmenatlly resonsible!

 

[maryjohn]

Right on girl, we are starting to get a choir, we just need a preacher. Amen!

Did you read krugman's editorial last week? He talked about the ketchup fallacy: 2L of ketchup is exactly twice the price of 1L, therefore the price is correct. It's the same thinking we fall for when we decide the value we will trade for these nutes.

I didn't mean to call you a bully, it's just I notices recently some people are a bit sensitive when you critique the system.

 

[LadyLargely]

Man, fuck the system! Isn't that why we're here?!? Discussing illegal shit on a world-wide-communication network protected by the words put down by the American forefathers? Isn't that what this is all about? What they where about? About standing up and saying "fuck you!" when you know despite what society says they are wrong and you are right!?!?

Sorry, but in this setting I'm not gonna comprimise because I don't have to. Thats gonna make me seem really brash and perhaps a bit self-righteous, or even a bully. I don't really care. This is a 'message board' and I'm gonna get my message out, I'm not too worried about how you guys feel and don't care too much about what you think of me. But it is nice to know you haven't go me on your asshole list all the same

 

[maryjohn]

Nah, I just don't someone who feels threatened looking for you on other threads and picking fights. It can get annoying.

 

[h.h.]

Plants grow not because of how we treat them, rather they grow in spite of how we treat them. There is no secret formula. The same bat shit has been used for centuries. We need only supply the basics with limited manipulations.
Most growers realize little profit. When things are done on a profitable scale it makes sense to buy time by using expensive tailor mades. On the small scale it is simply laziness or a search for the magic bullet. Magic is made, not bought.

 

[CT Guy]

I just stopped using bonide fish hydrolysate. Printed in gray and difficult to see on the label is an indication it is descented. Too bad- it is half the price of neptunes harvest, which I am also going to stop using if I determine it is supporting the destructive purse seining for menhaden in the chesapeake region.

Espoma biotone though, is a terriffic product for home gardener, plus it smells like dusty chocolate.

I will disagree with your characterization of consumers though. Given the information at hand and the value of the harvest, these nutrients appear to be a good value, and growers are generally satisfied with the results, unaware they have parasites. If we can eliminate or reduce the information advantage of the grow industry we can convert it to something useful or better yet support our local garden centers.

maryjohn,

Where are you at in the world? If your in the NW US I have a few ideas.....I've been sourcing fish hydrolysate and have talked to a few different companies about products, and might have some recommendations/suggestions for hydrolysate if you're in the US.

 

[maryjohn]

NE US at the moment.

 

[happyhi]

Hehe, I see Humboldt is getting a new asshole installed, but really guys, all of those designer liquid organics are the same.

I find it just so difficult to believe that this shit is a surprise to anyone. Seriously, how the fuck are you guys surprised by this shit!?

50, 75, 100, or even 150 dollars a gallon? Come the fuck on! How could anyone believe that shit is worth it!? What did you think they where putting in there? Fairy dust? Powdered gold? There is nothing that could be added to a gallon of water to make it that fucking valuable for growing plants.

All designer liquid organics are this way. I don't care if they aren't quite as much of a rip as Humboldt. They are all a ripoff! The only organic products you should be buying are high-quality powdered organic substances from reputable dealers. Sunleaves guano, bonide fish emulsion, Espoma bio tone; these are the kinds of things you need.

And 170.00 for a fucking organic tea maker? You guys are outta your goddamn minds! How do you get a fucking 5 gallon bucket and a crappy air pump and some hose to cost 170 motherfucking United States cash federal dollars!?!?!?!

Lunacy! All of it! A whole run of 5 plants under 350 watts costs me less than 5 bucks in nutrients for the whole way through! And thats counting my I-know-its-too-expensive mycorrhizae concentrate! Organic gardeners need to be making their own tea with their own equipment. Stop being victims! The fact that pot is illegal lets these slimy nute salesmen get away with these ludicrous prices! The only thing that allows a gallon of basic organic material to be sold for triple-digit prices is IGNORANCE!!!

it's fun reading your rant, rant on! and since you have done such a wonderful job articulating your point of view, let me send you an
about face shot on your tea maker rant. I don't know what tea maker you
are referring to but i paid 300 bucks for one that i happen to think was
worth every cent. the pump alone would cost me a couple hundred bucks.
And the design of the KIS System is a thing of simplistic beauty made
by small company earning a minimal profit and providing a wonderful
service helping to educate and distribute a device that enables people
to care for their gardens in a much better way.
rant on, just leave the KIS tea maker out of it.
peace

 

[jsouza59]

using same nutes

using same nutes

I am currently using grow, bloom organic and supplementing with duece-duece and humboldt honey and another additive called prozyme which is suppose to help for plnt nute intake, if you go to there web site they have several different feeding schedules and menu descibing there nutes and other additives they carry, very happy with my outdoor plants, my larger plants look like they are are going to have some huge buds on them, nursery where I bought my soil introduced me to it, he is organic veggie gardener, here is a couple pics of a couple buds off of a 2 little plants I force flowered in july, they are getting harvested mon. morning, very solid feeling, very strong smelling, neighbors keep saying there is a skunk problem in the neighborhood

 

[s13sr20det]

I am currently using grow, bloom organic and supplementing with duece-duece and humboldt honey and another additive called prozyme which is suppose to help for plnt nute intake, if you go to there web site they have several different feeding schedules and menu descibing there nutes and other additives they carry, very happy with my outdoor plants, my larger plants look like they are are going to have some huge buds on them, nursery where I bought my soil introduced me to it, he is organic veggie gardener, here is a couple pics of a couple buds off of a 2 little plants I force flowered in july, they are getting harvested mon. morning, very solid feeling, very strong smelling, neighbors keep saying there is a skunk problem in the neighborhood

lol

 

[maryjohn]

I don't think anyone is saying the simple and cheap ingredients in the product don't work. They have worked for a long time, and are easy to source and mix. And cheap.

But they do work, even when sold at inflated prices.

 

[LadyLargely]

it's fun reading your rant, rant on!

rant on, just leave the KIS tea maker out of it.
peace

Thanks mate, ranting is one of my favorite passtimes.

But NO I will not leave the KIS tea maker out of it! I've just been on their website and looked at their 5 gallon extended life brewer. $300 motherfucking United States Cash Federal Dollars!!?!?!

That sir, is insane. I can replicate that thing with a $2 plastic bucket from menards, a $40 air pump, a $5 air stone and one of my ruined sets of panty-hose!

It should be sold for $120 MAXIMUM, that's enough for the makers to get a good 30-40% profit margin. $300 is theft.

I am a scrooge-miser-penny-pincher, I know how much shit is worth, I know when it is worth the effort to screw the manufacturer and make your own, and when it is not. This is a clear-cut case of some fine gardeners discovering a niche and then blowing the complexity and difficulty of that niche way out of preportion. They've got some bitch with a lab coat and a microscope on their front page, they are trying to intimidate you! The name of their fucking company is 'Keep it Simple' Have they no shame?

"look, you need to be a scientist to figure this shit out!"

is what they are saying. No you don't! I am about as far-removed from a scientist as you can get and I figured that shit out on my own just fine. With huge information recources like ICmag shit like the KIS brewer shouldn't even exist!

 

[CT Guy]

Thanks mate, ranting is one of my favorite passtimes.

But NO I will not leave the KIS tea maker out of it! I've just been on their website and looked at their 5 gallon extended life brewer. $300 motherfucking United States Cash Federal Dollars!!?!?!

That sir, is insane. I can replicate that thing with a $2 plastic bucket from menards, a $40 air pump, a $5 air stone and one of my ruined sets of panty-hose!

It should be sold for $120 MAXIMUM, that's enough for the makers to get a good 30-40% profit margin. $300 is theft.

I am a scrooge-miser-penny-pincher, I know how much shit is worth, I know when it is worth the effort to screw the manufacturer and make your own, and when it is not. This is a clear-cut case of some fine gardeners discovering a niche and then blowing the complexity and difficulty of that niche way out of preportion. They've got some bitch with a lab coat and a microscope on their front page, they are trying to intimidate you! The name of their fucking company is 'Keep it Simple' Have they no shame?

"look, you need to be a scientist to figure this shit out!"

is what they are saying. No you don't! I am about as far-removed from a scientist as you can get and I figured that shit out on my own just fine. With huge information recources like ICmag shit like the KIS brewer shouldn't even exist!

Okay, I can't just leave this rant alone...

I'm all for a discussion or criticism, but let's keep it civil please.

1. That "bitch" on our home page is Dr. Elaine Ingham of the Soil Food Web Laboratories. She's one of the leading founders and proponents of biological gardening in the United States and her research has been paramount in our industry. She deserves much respect from everyone in this forum for her contributions to our field.

2. If you can make our product for $120, feel free to start your own company and sell tea brewers. Here's a few considerations for you though:

a) How do you recover the hundred thousand dollars in initial laboratory testing of you brewer design and recipe?

b) Where do you find a pump that pushes enough air, that you've tested with dissolved oxygen meters and a microscope.

c) How do you determine the micron size to use, or how your brewer will perform at different elevations, with different water sources, at various brewing lengths, or food substrates?

3. And how do you get shops to carry your brewer? What % of the product cost are you going to give them? Most want a minimum of 40% of the product cost.

Lastly, keep your money in your pocket. Design your own brewer. Test it by looking at it or smelling it or whatever you want to do. You don't need to be a scientist, but science is involved. Without testing, all you have a is a bucket of brown water.

"Keep It Simple" refers to our brewer design, as most other brewers on the market are much more complicated in design.

I don't come on here to promote my company. Others have used our products and commented. If you don't like it, don't use it, but don't talk trash when you have no idea what you're talking about!

~CT

PS: Try finding that same motor on our extended life system for under $200. Not going to happen. 10,000 hour rating, 51 liters/min, completely quiet, and weighs almost 15 lbs. It's a high quality heaving duty pump.

 

[maryjohn]

Yeah good parts cost money. It's a fair price for what it is, and great if you have a yard but for micro growers it doesn't make sense.

 

[happyhi]

Thanks mate, ranting is one of my favorite passtimes.

But NO I will not leave the KIS tea maker out of it! I've just been on their website and looked at their 5 gallon extended life brewer. $300 motherfucking United States Cash Federal Dollars!!?!?!

That sir, is insane. I can replicate that thing with a $2 plastic bucket from menards, a $40 air pump, a $5 air stone and one of my ruined sets of panty-hose!

It should be sold for $120 MAXIMUM, that's enough for the makers to get a good 30-40% profit margin. $300 is theft.

I am a scrooge-miser-penny-pincher, I know how much shit is worth, I know when it is worth the effort to screw the manufacturer and make your own, and when it is not. This is a clear-cut case of some fine gardeners discovering a niche and then blowing the complexity and difficulty of that niche way out of preportion. They've got some bitch with a lab coat and a microscope on their front page, they are trying to intimidate you! The name of their fucking company is 'Keep it Simple' Have they no shame?

"look, you need to be a scientist to figure this shit out!"

is what they are saying. No you don't! I am about as far-removed from a scientist as you can get and I figured that shit out on my own just fine. With huge information recources like ICmag shit like the KIS brewer shouldn't even exist!

Greetings rantee,

you took the bait, like a good ranter should. i think CT guy set you straight.
you know not what you speak. talk is cheap, particularly from ranter's.
The KIS product is exactly what they represent unlike many others, they are one of the good guys. you need to order one and then apologize.
peace, HH

 

[habeeb]

Thanks mate, ranting is one of my favorite passtimes.

But NO I will not leave the KIS tea maker out of it! I've just been on their website and looked at their 5 gallon extended life brewer. $300 motherfucking United States Cash Federal Dollars!!?!?!

That sir, is insane. I can replicate that thing with a $2 plastic bucket from menards, a $40 air pump, a $5 air stone and one of my ruined sets of panty-hose!

It should be sold for $120 MAXIMUM, that's enough for the makers to get a good 30-40% profit margin. $300 is theft.

I am a scrooge-miser-penny-pincher, I know how much shit is worth, I know when it is worth the effort to screw the manufacturer and make your own, and when it is not. This is a clear-cut case of some fine gardeners discovering a niche and then blowing the complexity and difficulty of that niche way out of preportion. They've got some bitch with a lab coat and a microscope on their front page, they are trying to intimidate you! The name of their fucking company is 'Keep it Simple' Have they no shame?

"look, you need to be a scientist to figure this shit out!"

is what they are saying. No you don't! I am about as far-removed from a scientist as you can get and I figured that shit out on my own just fine. With huge information recources like ICmag shit like the KIS brewer shouldn't even exist!

no need for hostility here,

a word of advice if making your own, nylons don't work, get a 400 micron bag ( KIS has them ) or sew your own.

they have a brewer for $150 I believe if you don't have $300.

check out soilfoodweb.com and you'll see that lady in a white lab coat, is actually using that white lab coat.

make sure your air pump is throwing out 6ppm in the water. the kis one is very quiet and has such a large volume of air moving for how quiet it is

 

[maryjohn]

Gotta agree, especially the calling dr. Ingham a bitch part. But the consumer rage is understandable.

 

[happyhi]

i'm a peaceful participant, but still enjoy reading the ranting. anyone talking shit about
doc ingham is missing a part of the story.
peace