Water with Oxygenated water?

[NOYB]

Could it be the pH?

Could it be the lack of Macro and Micronutes?

Could it be the myriad of the millions of other variables that they lacked control for?

Good god, this study was not even a study, it was a bunch of simpletons in a romper room.

It would have been better off if hooiser never posted it but I guess that the best he could do.

I agree that they did not look at other parameters and made assumptions but still, for me, I find it interesting that only 1.3 tsp did the trick. While however flawed, and agree it is weak in some ways, it provides a bit of information that's food for thought.

I read studies in the health food industry and gotta tear em apart, try and make sense of em and find the holes. Each one however does provide a bit of good stuff that can be useful in applying to other problems I come across. I also do a lot of product testing...that can be fun trying to debug things when something is 'wrong' only to find out the lab used the wrong plate and had to figure it out for em.

 

[Blue Dot]

Studies are a dime a dozen.

It's an art form.

Less than 1% of studies actually conclusively prove anything just because of the sheer fact that most studies are incorrect in their methods and moreover in the conclusion linked to that method.

In a proper study you MUST account for EVERYTHING, otherwise, what's the point?

Plant health is determined by 100's of factors.

 

[lysol]

Maybe if frogs had wings, they wouldn't bump their little green asses. (shrug)

Plant health is determined by 100's of factors.

ding ding ding we have a winner,

hoos, negative assertions are assertions as much as positive assertions.

an assertion that a fact is true is just as suspect-able to disproving as an assertion that a fact is false.

religious people assert there is a god, scientific people assert there is none ( for lack of proof ). Can either party prove their stance? nope, not until we find a way to measure & prove that fact, until then any facts are purely religion. No wonder you use fallacies to prove your point

 

[wdcf]

Really have not heard much conclusive evidence from either side, im not talking about hydrogen peroxide im talking about oxygenating water.... I think im going to buy the expensive toy........I just hope that it doesnt raise my ph to much....

 

[TheGreenBastard]

Hydrogen peroxide is technically oxygenated water (that is water 'oxygenated' with another oxygen atom) .

 

[ibjamming]

Hydrogen peroxide is technically oxygenated water (that is water 'oxygenated' with another oxygen atom) .

Not exactly... It's a completely new molecule... Oxygenated water simply has O2 gas in the liquid. Just like soda has CO2 in it.

Personally...I think it can't hurt and it may help.

 

[NOYB]

im not talking about hydrogen peroxide im talking about oxygenating water

Well...H2O2 will provide a lot of oxygen to water. The easiest way, and very effective, is what I believe Haps recommended and pour back and forth between 2 buckets a few times. You'd be surprised how much DO is added that way...and quickly. To greatly increase DO in water with an air pump you actually need a lot of air flow...almost like the water is boiling. Water directly out of the tap is also pretty high in DO due to the action of going through the aerator and the effect of the flowing water crashing into what's already in the container...plus it's usually pretty cool/cold which also helps.

 

[TheGreenBastard]

Not exactly... It's a completely new molecule... Oxygenated water simply has O2 gas in the liquid. Just like soda has CO2 in it.

Personally...I think it can't hurt and it may help.

I know, it was a joke, hence the smilely's.

 

[delta9nxs]

do

do

Hi, wdcf, nice to meet you! Whew! After all this i'm stepping in with great trepidation. I'm going to be careful too. I certainly don't want to hurt anyone's feelings, call anyone any names or insult someone's intelligence. When I hurt others I hurt myself. I hurt someones feelings once and my conscience has never recovered. Lol

Ok, you guys had enough of this bs yet?

Let's see, for 8 yrs I worked in the catfish aquaculture industry as a cheap source of general purpose manual labor for one of my uncles. Part time after school and weekends.

Then, at the age of 25 I began a diving career that continued until the age of 45. most of my diving was for the capture of live marine specimens for the aquarium industry, public aquariums, and researchers.

Anyone who has done any diving knows that it is an education in gas properties.

In the marinelife industry I lived in some remote places and if I wanted something I usually had to build it myself. So, I built all my own holding systems. Some as large as 20,000 gals. Concrete and epoxy. I held thousands of animals at a time.

In both fields maintaining proper levels of o2 is critical for survival of your livestock.

Aeration is picking up free o2 from ambient air.

Oxygenation is the direct injection of pure o2 from a closed system source. Usually via means of devices such as “speece cones” or “u-tubes”.

With aeration the best you can hope for is;



Notice saturation goes up as temp goes down. However, in hydro, below 65f growth rate slows. Above 70f and you are asking for pythium. Above about 75f and it's coming to visit. So you have a rather narrow window and within that the max you can hope for is about 9.25 mg/l at sea level. Above sea level capacity drops rapidly with increased altitude.
At 5mg/l most aquatic life begins showing stress and die offs begin at around 2.5mg/l. But plants are not fish or invertebrates. Plants do well at 5 mg/l and, at sea level partial pressures insure saturation to temperature. Any agitation or breaking of surface tension accelerates the process. If you were to actually measure you will find you are around 6-7 mg/l immediately after watering. Plenty. In pots the act of watering is your “aerator”.
Levels up to 35 mg/l have been obtained using speece cones. At these extreme input rates even very warm waters can have huge amounts of o2. It is a temporary condition achieved at high expense.
If you're in hydro keep that res cool. If your watering pots of anything check your medium once in a while with a kitchen probe type thermometer.
About the h2o2, I don't have a fuckin' clue
later, delta9nxs

 

[delta9nxs]

ok it didn't load the first time. i was about to say "you know where to insert it", but belay that!

 

[NOYB]

That chart is kind of the same information that OO420 posted but nice to see it graphed. As for the pythium thing I remember reading a study a few years back, that pretty sure was done in New Zealand, regarding pythium and hydro grown lettuce. The results indicated that above 4 ppm the plants would not become infected with pythium eevn when they inoculated the system with pythium spores. I do not remember the temps they were testing at but regardless above 4 ppm and no pythium...supposedly...nor do I remember what type of system they were running.

The information you posted was helpful and particularly useful if someone is running DWC. My experience is that res DO levels are not as critical for something like Ebb & Flow. My experiments were with DO testing equipment and for sure if running DWC I'd look into a decent DO meter and maybe more importantly an ORP meter.

I got my res to 9 ppm and feel that with stronger aeration could have done a bit better...and that was at 4,000'. I measured the DO coming out of the tap, with about 45F water, somewhere around 12 ppm but that dropped pretty significantly within 24 hours and eventually stabilized at 7 ppm after about 96 hours at around 70F.

In pots the act of watering is your “aerator”.

Yes...and one very important aspect of the whole O2 level thing in the root zone is strongly influenced by soil structure, or the lack thereof, IMO.

 

[delta9nxs]

hey, noyb!

yep, temp control and an open medium and you won't have any problems with the anerobic little bastards!

if i were to go back to active hydro i would go ebb and flo for that same reason. res temps are not as much of an issue either w e&f.

i had a lot of temp problems with my bio-bucket setup. moved the pumps outside the res and built an insulated box around it. ran an 8" duct into it from the house main. 67f res temps. no more pythium. i sure could have used a do meter back then.

well, nice talking to you, later