my girls are rusting up pretty badly, its starting frmo the bottom up, fading leafs and rust spot, i have coco + about 20 soil, powderized soil sweet dolimite lime added to the mix and floranova bloom which has cal mag in it, im useing tap water, i mean my plants look very vibrant all in all its just the rust spots, im up to about two teaspoons of fnb almost daily , no leaf tip burns and plants are always perky, it seems that rust spots show up later with more intensity, a few girls are a few weeks away from harvest and swelling up nicely.. maybe ill add some blackstrapp molasess for a few straight days n see how they react...any tips?
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the dreaded coco rust spots
- Thread starter Leviathan
- Start date
S
Seismic
whats your nutrient and runoff ph?
im a dirt guy gone coco for now, i dont have those tools and dont plan on getting them ever.. i flush like once a week and feed the plant not the medium, i do realize though that with coco and problems like im having those tools may come in handy, yet those tools alone dont fix anything, and i cant get as serious as some of you guys with growing with your pens n ec meters and looseing sleep over it, ill be running ffof mixed with light warrior next run.........coco needs to much water n nutes for my easy going lazy ass., i was just wondering about a quick couple suggestions that dont take technology to accomplish, ive got like 17 days on my autos and a month on a few more- ill make it either way
Solidopc
Active member
I don't find coco needs that much water. I flower mine in 12 litre pots though, so that might have something to do with it. Its usually every 2 or 3 days. Roughly the same as soil.
As for your rust spots, not sure what to say if you ain't gonna invest in a ph pen at least. Do you ph the feed before it goes in, or just leave it?
My mate grows like this on coco, just not bothering with the ph and ec. He gets his bud, but i find mine has a much better aroma and flavour, and the plants look an awful lot better too.
I'd suggest getting one of those cheapo ph test kits from a petshop or aquarium or somewhere, and test your water before it goes in. You can use lemon juice as ph down, and just get it to about 5.5-6.0. That should help and won't cost buggar all. Other than that, just carry on and go back to soil when you're done.
As for your rust spots, not sure what to say if you ain't gonna invest in a ph pen at least. Do you ph the feed before it goes in, or just leave it?
My mate grows like this on coco, just not bothering with the ph and ec. He gets his bud, but i find mine has a much better aroma and flavour, and the plants look an awful lot better too.
I'd suggest getting one of those cheapo ph test kits from a petshop or aquarium or somewhere, and test your water before it goes in. You can use lemon juice as ph down, and just get it to about 5.5-6.0. That should help and won't cost buggar all. Other than that, just carry on and go back to soil when you're done.
im useing 1.5 gallon grow bags with autos, sounds like u think my ph might be to high, which it might very well be, i actaully have been snipping lower branches early and putting it in the toaster oven, as crazy as that is it taste good, it must be the organics in the floranovabloom , im planning on flushing but im impressed it actually taste good like this- so whats been your education through useing coco my friend , any advice for a newbie? anything....
Solidopc
Active member
I really like coco, to me the bud tastes better than organically grown on soil when done right.
As for tips on growing on it. I allways water with plain ph'd water every 3-4th watering until a good bit of runoff, to prevent any salt build up. I don't do the weekly or fortnightly flushing, just every 3-4th watering. Also, when i come to the flush, i keep flushing until my runoff ec is no more than 0.3 ec above what went in. My logic for this, is my tap water is 0.25-.30, so if i only get a similar ammount by flushing water through the medium, it can't be too contaminated, and it allways tastes very good this way, so i allways do that. Not sure if anyone else does this, or if they do it differently, but it works very well for myself.
I'd also suggest a ph and ec metre, i know you dont want them, but they do really make a difference, and are quite cheap on places like ebay.
All in all, coco is very easy, especially once you're used to it. Perservere i think is a good bit of advice. It beats soil hands down in my opinion, and you'll not regret growing on coco when you get those super fat, hydro dense buds of top quality herb.
As for tips on growing on it. I allways water with plain ph'd water every 3-4th watering until a good bit of runoff, to prevent any salt build up. I don't do the weekly or fortnightly flushing, just every 3-4th watering. Also, when i come to the flush, i keep flushing until my runoff ec is no more than 0.3 ec above what went in. My logic for this, is my tap water is 0.25-.30, so if i only get a similar ammount by flushing water through the medium, it can't be too contaminated, and it allways tastes very good this way, so i allways do that. Not sure if anyone else does this, or if they do it differently, but it works very well for myself.
I'd also suggest a ph and ec metre, i know you dont want them, but they do really make a difference, and are quite cheap on places like ebay.
All in all, coco is very easy, especially once you're used to it. Perservere i think is a good bit of advice. It beats soil hands down in my opinion, and you'll not regret growing on coco when you get those super fat, hydro dense buds of top quality herb.
buddin_904
Member
if im not mistaken.....you need to raise pH of nute solu. to 6 at least......right??
Solidopc
Active member
That depends on the ph of his tap water. Most tap water has a high ph, so needs to be lowered, even after adding nutrients. Some tap water might be very good straight out the tap, and after adding nutes, could even need raising. I've never heard of anyone who has this problem though, allways the other way round.
buddin_904
Member
i agree with everything u said......however for his problem, the "rust" spots. isnt this caused due to lack of mag (because it seems as if he adds enough),but however i believe its due to inproper pH range. mid 5s should be ok for Ca yet block out some Mg, however its my understanding and its always workd for me, 6, is an appropriate medium and should stop rusting in its tracks. guessing what your tap is, is ridiculous. it seems he has all the appropriate ammendments and additives. yet i didnt see anything about him pHing to the right concentration.
whats the cost and names of a good ec meter and ph penn youd reconmend, then i suppose i also need ph up and down and what ones do u recomend of those.. i do agree about coco tasteing good, i think people that grow in soil but use even 7 percent chemical arent organic and when u flush coco its flushed!!! and quickly to, that equals less material in the medium n plants at the end so i like coco for this, id actually like to get coco down perfect as discarding dirt and its mess it entails is burdensom, and u need bigger container with soil also im told
Solidopc
Active member
I ordered mine from ebay, just search for ec metres and ph metres. Mine cost about £15 each. They aren't a brand one like bluelab, which are expensive, but they work fine.
You'll also need calibration fluid for your ph/ec metres. Some come with a little bottle of it. You will need to calibrate it every so often, to keep getitng correct readings, but its easy and cheap.
The calibration fluid is about £3 a bottle, and the ph up and down are around the same.
You'll also need calibration fluid for your ph/ec metres. Some come with a little bottle of it. You will need to calibrate it every so often, to keep getitng correct readings, but its easy and cheap.
The calibration fluid is about £3 a bottle, and the ph up and down are around the same.
~fvk~
the Lion is going Guerrilla...
I have a Hanna 98127 and it's going 2 years strong. It costs like 60 bones. Before that I used litmus, which kind of sucks if you want to know the exact PH that you're dealing with. If you get a decent PH meter, always keep the probe wet with storage solution for sure. I also have a HM Digital TDS-EZ meter. That cost like 15 bucks and needs calibration once a year, dry storage. It's better to keep the probes seperate, but whatever, people love their combo meters. Spend the dinero on a quality PH meter, I have a cheapo that doesn't stabilize and it's shit.
teddynugent
Member
Hey there,
I have only done a few grows in Coco. And each time, the only things I added to the Coco were: a small amount of Fox Farms Potting Soil, maybe a bit of Perlite and some EarthWorm Castings - Usually at a ratio of 6 cups Coco, 1-2 cups soil & 1 cup of EarthWorm Castings.
But I have also had plants growing in a straight Coco mix (with none of the other stuff above) side-by-side with the Coco/Soil Mix.
I have experienced those "Rust Spots" (or) "Rusty Leaves" like you described.
I have a PH test kit w/the PH Up & Down as well as a PPM Meter.
I use Liquid Nutrients when feeding and sometimes add Hygrozyme, SuperThrive, B-Cuzz Rooting Stimulator (or similar) along with sometimes using a good Micro-Nutrient and/or Nutrient Additive containing all those trace elements etc., as well as using a bit of Bloom Ferts. here and there.
I am bad about remembering to check the PH, so most times it doesn't get checked - But I always check the PPM/EC of the Nutrient/Water Solution I mix up before watering/feeding.
Honestly, from my experience, those "Rusty Leaves" seem to be caused by Over-Feeding - I am not sure if it's from too much of a particular Nutrient or Additive (because it has happened with feeding them just 1 type of Veg. or Bloom Nutrient AND from feeding them a mix of different Nutrients). It also didn't seem to be from the PH of the solution as it's happened when I have had the PH at a number of different levels....
The only time that it has happened with me, is like 12 to 24 hours or so after a Nutrient/Water Feeding - and each time it was when I used a heavier dose of Nutrients.
Also, it's possible that I may have been Over-Watering when adding the Nutrients (all though I am pretty good about not over-watering).
Anyways, like I said, for me it seems like it only happens after adding a Nutrient & Water mix - and seems to show up kind of quickly (so maybe its from like shocking/over-loading/overwhealming the root system with too high a concentration of Nutrients? Just a guess - but it has never happened when I was using an Aeroponics Machine, so i'm guessing the Coco obviously has to play a part)
But, each time this has happened to me, I just give the affected plants a good flushing with water - and then I just continue to water the plants with the rusty leaves with plain water the next few feedings after that.
Once the plant begins to grow nicely again - you can tell; They start to grow normally again, with no more new rusty leaves/Spots (I also usually trim off the leaves that are badly rusted) - then I resume feeding, starting with a lower dose of nutrients, slowly increasing.
If the Plain Water Flush (and continual use of plain water) doesn't start to clear the problem up within a few days, then I would suggest further action.
I would go buy and use a Flushing/Leaching Solution like "ClearEx" and use that to flush out the affected plant(s) - then begin with the plain waterings again.
Also, if this has been an On-Going problem and you have been feeding your plants thru a Foliar Feeding Method - I would switch to first using plain old water on the Coco and then after that I wouldn't Foliar Feed them anymore - I'd switch to feeding the plant by watering the Coco (and obviously the roots....).
You could also try spraying all the plant Foliage with a mix of Water and a little bit (1-4 drops or so) of Dish-Soap.
This mix works well to take care a variety of Molds/Fungus' as well as Pests Etc.
The only other thing I can think of is - Either Watering your plants, Spraying them OR Both - with a mix of Hydrogen Peroxide and Water (like 1-2 cap fulls per Gallon of Water).
Let me know if this helps you out at all. If not, then if you can provide me with a bit more detail, I will try and give some more suggestions.
-Teddy
I have only done a few grows in Coco. And each time, the only things I added to the Coco were: a small amount of Fox Farms Potting Soil, maybe a bit of Perlite and some EarthWorm Castings - Usually at a ratio of 6 cups Coco, 1-2 cups soil & 1 cup of EarthWorm Castings.
But I have also had plants growing in a straight Coco mix (with none of the other stuff above) side-by-side with the Coco/Soil Mix.
I have experienced those "Rust Spots" (or) "Rusty Leaves" like you described.
I have a PH test kit w/the PH Up & Down as well as a PPM Meter.
I use Liquid Nutrients when feeding and sometimes add Hygrozyme, SuperThrive, B-Cuzz Rooting Stimulator (or similar) along with sometimes using a good Micro-Nutrient and/or Nutrient Additive containing all those trace elements etc., as well as using a bit of Bloom Ferts. here and there.
I am bad about remembering to check the PH, so most times it doesn't get checked - But I always check the PPM/EC of the Nutrient/Water Solution I mix up before watering/feeding.
Honestly, from my experience, those "Rusty Leaves" seem to be caused by Over-Feeding - I am not sure if it's from too much of a particular Nutrient or Additive (because it has happened with feeding them just 1 type of Veg. or Bloom Nutrient AND from feeding them a mix of different Nutrients). It also didn't seem to be from the PH of the solution as it's happened when I have had the PH at a number of different levels....
The only time that it has happened with me, is like 12 to 24 hours or so after a Nutrient/Water Feeding - and each time it was when I used a heavier dose of Nutrients.
Also, it's possible that I may have been Over-Watering when adding the Nutrients (all though I am pretty good about not over-watering).
Anyways, like I said, for me it seems like it only happens after adding a Nutrient & Water mix - and seems to show up kind of quickly (so maybe its from like shocking/over-loading/overwhealming the root system with too high a concentration of Nutrients? Just a guess - but it has never happened when I was using an Aeroponics Machine, so i'm guessing the Coco obviously has to play a part)
But, each time this has happened to me, I just give the affected plants a good flushing with water - and then I just continue to water the plants with the rusty leaves with plain water the next few feedings after that.
Once the plant begins to grow nicely again - you can tell; They start to grow normally again, with no more new rusty leaves/Spots (I also usually trim off the leaves that are badly rusted) - then I resume feeding, starting with a lower dose of nutrients, slowly increasing.
If the Plain Water Flush (and continual use of plain water) doesn't start to clear the problem up within a few days, then I would suggest further action.
I would go buy and use a Flushing/Leaching Solution like "ClearEx" and use that to flush out the affected plant(s) - then begin with the plain waterings again.
Also, if this has been an On-Going problem and you have been feeding your plants thru a Foliar Feeding Method - I would switch to first using plain old water on the Coco and then after that I wouldn't Foliar Feed them anymore - I'd switch to feeding the plant by watering the Coco (and obviously the roots....).
You could also try spraying all the plant Foliage with a mix of Water and a little bit (1-4 drops or so) of Dish-Soap.
This mix works well to take care a variety of Molds/Fungus' as well as Pests Etc.
The only other thing I can think of is - Either Watering your plants, Spraying them OR Both - with a mix of Hydrogen Peroxide and Water (like 1-2 cap fulls per Gallon of Water).
Let me know if this helps you out at all. If not, then if you can provide me with a bit more detail, I will try and give some more suggestions.
-Teddy
wickedpete66
Active member
Hey Lev if your only 2 weeks from flower there isn't much you can do about those rust spots especially if you dont have a ph meter. Whats probably happening is the dolomite lime that you have mixed with the soil is probably bringing your ph up above 6.5. With cocoa you really shouldn't be mixing the soil and cocoa together. If you want to go soil/ cocoa route. Put cocoa on the bottom and your soil mix on top of it, but quite frankly if you want the true benefits of cocoa( rapid growth) dont use any soil at all.
G
Guest 18340
A bottle of ph drops is only $5.95 Don't waste your money on ph pens.
well thanks for the info to everyone. keep in mind that my soil part is only about 25 pecent . i do think that maybe the cal mag in the lime i added plus the cal mag in the food i use(fnb) might be too much. im going to post pics soon, my plants really do look great overall, its not a stunted plant in anyway i just know its not perfect and would like to find out what i can do better my next run., from ive been hearing n reading id guess its a mag deficiancy, is there a product that has more mag then cal u guys could recomend? actually i think somebody posted one. thx all
Solicited Advice: (dirt cheap too)
Solicited Advice: (dirt cheap too)
"in the lime i added"
Here's the main culprit.
The error was in treating coco like soil.
It just, isn't.
It helps to think of it as crumbly brown hydroponics.
It will lockout Calcium at a PH of >6.
The lime will make it very difficult to reach and hold the "coco grow range" of
5.2 - 5.8 for the rest of the nutrients.
And Like the gentleman said.
If you want to try coco,
You really should do it right.
I can state from experience and experiment.
That I'm sure you will be very pleased.
If not?
Double your money back for the advice.
Aloha
Weezard
Solicited Advice: (dirt cheap too)
"in the lime i added"
Here's the main culprit.
The error was in treating coco like soil.
It just, isn't.
It helps to think of it as crumbly brown hydroponics.
It will lockout Calcium at a PH of >6.
The lime will make it very difficult to reach and hold the "coco grow range" of
5.2 - 5.8 for the rest of the nutrients.
And Like the gentleman said.
If you want to try coco,
You really should do it right.
I can state from experience and experiment.
That I'm sure you will be very pleased.
If not?
Double your money back for the advice.
Aloha
Weezard
adding more of something that is locked out, won't help. if the plant cant uptake whats there, adding more won't resolve anything.
coco isnt soil
buddin_904
Member
correct....therefore addressing the real problem, correcting improper pH seems to be resolutional. am i the only person on here that knows about rust spots appearing week 3ish-4 and in turn bumping UP the pH FROM 5.7 to 6-6.1? does anyone else do this!?
I do, but if you leave the pH above 6 for too long it brings on its own problems. Up the pH for a couple of weeks, but then bring it back down where it belongs.
