Magnesium deficiency - organic remedy?

[jaykush]

I'm with you jay

Earlier on I gave them a foliar with the nettle + root (since it's a bit closer to "done") at 1 teaspoon in 3l of water.

I also started a kelp meal and EWC tea (extra heavy on the kelp meal) which I will foliar with tomorrow. I think that should put the breaks on the symptoms!

sounds good to me. im sure they will love the kelp/ewc tea too.

 

[habeeb]

I was looking for a vessel the right size (1 or 2l), but I couldn't find anything except much larger vessels... I'll give it another go!

check out farmstand stores or somewhere that would sell bottled milk, that's where I got mine, perfect size,

a little too big for my needs even when 1-2ml a gallon..

 

[Weedninja]

Brf= Brown rice flour. Sorry, brf is a term widely used in shroom cultivation.

 

[maryjohn]

i think your taking the thought of "exploding" too much and blowing it way out of proportions just to cause drama, the bottle is not what explodes. its all the liquid that "explodes" out of the bottle after opening. for example, shaking a soda and then opening it, did the bottle explode? i didn't think so....... i doubt the bottle itself would ever explode from the pressure of plant extracts alone, but i do not doubt the few times ive had liquid plant extract exploded on me, and im just trying to tell other so they dont end up with stinky nettle tea on them.

you used the word "explode", not me, Jay. I would never caution people about a bottle of seltzer water "exploding" if what I meant was that it in fact will not explode. Fucking misleading dude. Any idiot knows to be careful when opening a pressurized container. It's no reason not to seal it to get proper fermentation. So please spare us the hyperbole. Simple facts will do.

Fermentation without taking precautions to make it "clean", is to me like playing in an open sewer. Plenty of kids never get sick doing it, but that doesn't make it smart, especially in an indoor situation. Depending on what is in the air (we don't all live in the lambic valley) you can wind up with pathogens, especially if you are using a sugar source as when brewing with EM.

At the very least a fermentation container should always have a lid to keep mice out. Habeeb posted the best solution of them all with his air-lock. that's what i've used for glass carboys.

It's not rocket science, but it is science. I know your experience is vast Jay, so it must suck to be challenged, but science is science. What isn't rocket science is growing MJ. Just about anything people try "works". That does not make it worthwhile. I'm not saying FPE isn't worthwhile, but let's try to avoid bullshit explanations and theories and stick to science.

I used to use urine as a foliar spray, and it "worked". Then microbeman pointed out that all those nutes need to be processed by soil life, and at first I resisted, but then realized that plenty of the urine made it to the soil, which explains everything. I'm not saying there are no benefits to foliar spray, but the science as explained to me says foliar absorption of organic compounds does not happen (i would love to be corrected).

Neon, Mg is a highly mobile nutrient in the plant. it doesn't matter if the plant has a little or a lot. It will all wind up in your buds because it is moved by the plant to the new growth. You shouldn't worry about having it in your soil. those theories about harshness caused by Mg are very unproven, and very experienced growers like Jay will tell you it's all about curing.

 

[BurnOne]

Jaykush and Maryjohn-
There is no need to debate. Everyone has an opinion. It is up to the reader to take or leave your advise. Please think of the readers here that don't care for drama and conflict. You two have a lot to offer growers. Please be considerate of others and each other.
Burn1

 

[jaykush]

i used the word explode for a good reason, here is an article about gil carandang. he is a natural farmer from the Philippines. this is EXACTLY what happened to me. here is the whole article( http://www.rodaleinstitute.org/20040401/Hamilton ) this is just a small part below. funny they seemed to use the word explode too, i wonder how many emails he got complaining about that?

"Last year, I saw Dierks’ brews as they came to life in his potting shed. They weren’t pretty, mostly soupy brown liquids in jugs and buckets, but the life inside them was astonishing. He went to give me a smell of one, labeled “Root Brew,” only to find the bottle cap had been sealed on by liquid seeping out from inside. He wrenched the plastic bottle between his hands, pulled, and bang! The cap popped off and liquid exploded all over the shed.

We stood there for a moment, our bare arms and faces and shirts brown and wet, Dennis holding what had become a sated volcano, calm but still dribbling out lava. “If this were chemicals we would be totally poisoned right now,” he said, “not to mention out of a lot of money. But that’s the beauty of it. Instead, your skin feels soft. It feels alive. And it’s free. I haven’t been this excited about farming for 25 years.”

and just to be fair, your the one who brought up bottles under pressure in the first place. back in post #30. i just gave fair warning to those who do not want the same fate as me and a few others i know.

What isn't rocket science is growing MJ

anyone can grow pot yea even nature, but not everyone can grow great pot. it takes experience, a good knowledge of the plant and skill to grow the best of the best. anyone who's smoked real good pot knows that. of course genetics play a good role too.

sorry B1, back to topic.

for all you out there that want a natural, free organic source of MG and much more, look to stinging nettles, if you don't want to, there are many ways to get the same needs. that's why organic gardening is so great.

 

[maryjohn]

that's a pretty funny anecdote, and well written. thanks for posting that.

were they 2L soda bottles, by the way, or something else?

here's a recipe for making the extract with em, from the em people.

EM Fermented Plant Extract (EMFPE)

For centuries, extracts have been used as elixirs for all sorts of ailments. Individuals would seek out certain plant materials that were known for their beneficial properties and ferment them to extract the desired benefits. This same technology can be used to extract properties from plants, such as geranium, to make a citronella extract for keeping away mosquitoes. Hot peppers and garlic are also known for their pest-deterring properties. If you incorporate companion planting (basil with tomato), you may find a winning combination to give the effect you want.

Weeds and other green material can be recycled into an organic foliar spray and insect repellent. During fermentation, EM is able to ferment weeds and extract organic acids, bio-active substances, minerals, and other useful organic compounds from these materials which are able to promote plant growth and improve plant health.

MATERIALS: 5 gallon buckets with a airtight lids, Fermented Molasses, molasses, water, leafy plant material and a tablespoon.

PROCEDURE:

Collect plant material such as weeds, vegetable trimmings and leaves. If possible, chop the plant material into small pieces (i.e. 2" x 2"). Fill the bucket with as much material as possible.
In a separate container, prepare EM solution at 1 part Fermented Molasses, 1 part molasses and 100 parts water. (2.5 Tbsp Fermented Molasses and 2.5 Tbsp molasses per 1 gallon of water)
Pour the EM solution over the plant material, filling the bucket all the way to the top.
Seal bucket with an airtight lid.
Place solution out of direct sunlight and allow material to ferment for a period of 2 weeks. After 2 weeks test the pH. The solution pH should be between 3.2 and 3.7.
Strain off the liquid into another container. The strained liquid is the Fermented Plant Extract (EMFPE).
The EMFPE is used as a foliar spray. Dilute this solution 1:500 (1.5 tsp. per gallon) and spray on plants as needed.
The fermented plant material (not the liquid) can be used as a nutrient rich fertilizer or compost starter. If used as a fertilizer, spread it out very thin due to its strength.
Store unused EMFPE in a dark place with relatively uniform temperatures. Solution may be stored up to 90 days.

 

[jaykush]

no problem for the link, i hope you understand more now on what i was saying about the exploding bottle. i have even had bottles of compost tea do the same thing way back when i was testing CT like a mad man.

were they 2L soda bottles, by the way, or something else?

the two that exploded on me from memory were a soda bottle( i think 2L but cant say for sure it was over 2 years ago), and a 1 gallon paint bucket with lid( that one was bad!). now i just make sure to check on them every few days, or make sure it can breathe. being covered with stinky plant extracts sucks! lol. ive experimented with glass, ceramic, terra cotta, and a few others as well. terra cotta, glass and plastic buckets work best imo. plastic is the easiest to get and wont break if you handle it rough though.

yea i have read that before, i am almost 100% sure i posted it in the organic fanatic collective a long time ago too. there's nothing wrong with that method i am sure it works amazing, but the process used compared to how i do it is much more complex, and imo not needed for everyone. with the way i do it theres no need for EM, no need for molasses, no need for fermented molasses. just water, plant matter, and something to hold it in. let nature do the hard work, strain, dilute and apply. simple as that.

i have also used extracts that have been stored longer than 90 days. ive used some that were over 6 months old , its weird at about 3-4 months the liquid becomes completely clear like water compared to a foggy brownish/yellow depending on the plant used. always wondered why.

 

[maryjohn]

it's true the plants you are using are covered in microbes. but you must live somewhere with good flora in the air. maybe it's my city or region, but if I don't seal things and sterilize containers, it goes bad.

you know, my wife can't for the life of her open a new bottle of seltzer without getting it everywhere. maybe you are cursed with ejaculatory brews. that's nature lovin' you back.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

OK, I got the brown rice flower...

Coot - 1 cup of flour added to 1 cup of water seems a bit much, compared to what I've been reading/trying. Are you sure about the quantity?

I apologize - I was thinking/writing about the mix that I would use to grow microbes for a sourdough.

What I would probably do would be to take an old sock and put in some brown rice (whole) and then take a hammer or mallet and hit them until you get them to break into pieces or at least are smashed like a rolled-oat (Quaker Oats) and then add that to your purified water and ferment.

Probably something like 3x water and 1x smashed brown rice would be a good place to start.

By using whole brown rice you'll get the endosperm, the bran and the germ - all of which contain large amounts of minerals and vitamins.

Quinoa is another grain to consider as well as Amaranth.

CC

 

[jaykush]

it's true the plants you are using are covered in microbes. but you must live somewhere with good flora in the air. maybe it's my city or region, but if I don't seal things and sterilize containers, it goes bad.

i do not live in a city, more like the countryside. microbial life and diversity is rich here. specially fungi in the winter (wow so many). the plants i try to select for using not only have microbes on them, some species have what are called endophytic fungi, which live in between the cells of the plants leaf usually strongest at the growing tips, some are known to help prevent disease and pest problems, others nutrient cycling and some even to find cures for human diseases. but they are still rarely studied and not much is known about the types out there. i have a document that says how to culture them but says some may take 2-4 years to establish in the sterile perti dish. so i just let nature do the work for now.

what do you consider for it to have "gone bad"? nettle brew stinks like a sewer when fermenting lol, but its still perfectly good to use.

you know, my wife can't for the life of her open a new bottle of seltzer without getting it everywhere. maybe you are cursed with ejaculatory brews. that's nature lovin' you back.

its only happened a few times, but i wont forget it ever. the first time i was not expecting it at all, them BOOM nettle juice all over the place.

 

[maryjohn]

gone bad for me is bad colored fuzzies, or stinky smell. done right it smells like a sour + molasses. (i'm talking straight EM). The objective way to see if EM is bad is to check the pH. An elevated pH is a sign of spoilage.

If I'm macerating plant matter I expect to smell all kinds of stuff, but not decomposition. In a way it's like pickling I guess, which is also how the bokashi bin works.

 

[jaykush]

gone bad for me is bad colored fuzzies, or stinky smell. done right it smells like a sour + molasses.

that's one way how i judge my BIM( beneficial indigenous micro organisms) cultures, sort of, except for the fuzzies that's a good sign. but when done, sour and molasses is a dead on description. anything else and im scared to use it. come to think of it, the lacto B culture smells sour and sweet like as well.

for plant extracts with no EM, funky smells is just an everyday part of it.

 

[maryjohn]

white fuzzies = good. colored fuzzies = bad

 

[jaykush]

i understand with EM and such, colored = bad. i was talking about BIM though, your never going to get just white fuzzies, its impossible. the process involves putting cooked rice under mulch in the forest, where diversity is extremely high. do a search on it, theres lots of info out there on BIM. even a few people here do it.

 

[neongreen]

I apologize - I was thinking/writing about the mix that I would use to grow microbes for a sourdough.

What I would probably do would be to take an old sock and put in some brown rice (whole) and then take a hammer or mallet and hit them until you get them to break into pieces or at least are smashed like a rolled-oat (Quaker Oats) and then add that to your purified water and ferment.

Probably something like 3x water and 1x smashed brown rice would be a good place to start.

By using whole brown rice you'll get the endosperm, the bran and the germ - all of which contain large amounts of minerals and vitamins.

Quinoa is another grain to consider as well as Amaranth.

CC

No problem Coot.

Seems like this stuff should do the trick just fine

What do you reckon?

 

[maryjohn]

i understand with EM and such, colored = bad. i was talking about BIM though, your never going to get just white fuzzies, its impossible. the process involves putting cooked rice under mulch in the forest, where diversity is extremely high. do a search on it, theres lots of info out there on BIM. even a few people here do it.

ah, now I understand. I thought you meant the FPE. where I live, liquid with even a little bit of sugar in it gets blue fuzzies at the surface in about 4-5 days. kaiser rolls go bad in 3-4 days on the counter and must be frozen or kept in the fridge. I have been religious about not keeping my bokashi bin open for too long when I am adding to it, and all the fuzz is white.

Which reminds me, jay, of a question for you. You are no doubt familiar with the bokashi bin. If one were to "bokashi" some of these beneficial plants with a fancy bin bought online, might not the liquid that drains off be jam packed with the goodies the plant has to offer, in very small and steady quantities suited to the small scale indoor grower? I'm just wondering if the super-concentrated enzymes and acids might not dissolve a very high amount of goodies. If you used rice bran instead of wheat, it might be even better.

I think I'm squeamish about mold. when I get a moldy onion, I can't bring myself to cut off the bad part and use the rest, because that means handling it.

 

[jaykush]

ah, now I understand. I thought you meant the FPE. where I live, liquid with even a little bit of sugar in it gets blue fuzzies at the surface in about 4-5 days. kaiser rolls go bad in 3-4 days on the counter and must be frozen or kept in the fridge. I have been religious about not keeping my bokashi bin open for too long when I am adding to it, and all the fuzz is white.

oh when i see fuzzies on top of my FPEs, which does happen every now and then ( back to the rubber bacteria story) i try not to use it( at least on eatable/smokeable plants). but that usually happens when i mix and match and add wierd things. single plant brews usually never give me those problems.

Which reminds me, jay, of a question for you. You are no doubt familiar with the bokashi bin. If one were to "bokashi" some of these beneficial plants with a fancy bin bought online, might not the liquid that drains off be jam packed with the goodies the plant has to offer, in very small and steady quantities suited to the small scale indoor grower? I'm just wondering if the super-concentrated enzymes and acids might not dissolve a very high amount of goodies. If you used rice bran instead of wheat, it might be even better.

there's only one way to find out.

I think I'm squeamish about mold. when I get a moldy onion, I can't bring myself to cut off the bad part and use the rest, because that means handling it.

lol doesnt bother me really, i would cut off the bad part and eat the onion to be honest. no sense in wasting food. though i haven't had any problems with moldy onions since i started growing my own, they store for a long long time compared to the ones at the store.

 

[Clackamas Coot]

No problem Coot.

Seems like this stuff should do the trick just fine

What do you reckon?

Looks like a winner to me!

BTW - do you have access to flax seed (aka linseed) by any chance? It has one of the highest levels of magnesium of any seed/grain as well as any other number of nutrients.

It's worth look at, IMHO

CC

 

[mexilandrace]

this thread made me hungry for rice, thanks guys.