Modern pot dosen't taste as good.

[Moldy Dreads]

And they tasted better too! Sweet and smooth. You just wanted to smoke more cause it tastes so good! And the high? Well they don't call those strains legendary for nothing!

I can grow pretty sweet and smooth bud, and I want to smoke more and more because it tastes good..I'm not sure that anything has changed except for more bud varieties due to globalization and cultivation practices are available, as well as landrace varieties, you just have to travel a bit and look around..

 

[McSnappler]

My take on this subject:
1. The old original genetics still exist. Many individuals and companies have taken responsibility to seek out and preserve original genetic lines (including Gypsy Nirvana), so it's not like they no longer exist. The net effect of ppl haphazardly cross-breeding only affects what they grow, not the entire cannabis genetic line.

That's true to say now, but as responsible breeders and seed handlers like Gypsy grow old, and the new generation of closet breeders become the guardians of modern Cannabis, what then?

Don't get me wrong, I'm growing out a few closet crosses right now, and there's every chance I'll find some good smoke in the various poly-(poly?)-hybrids I've been gifted.

The major problem in all of this is that Cannabis "breeding" for many right now has become a pheno hunt, instead of a strain hunt, which may well satisfy us stoners here and now looking for the latest elite, but ultimately where will that lead?

I'd love some more knowledgeable heads to chime in on this topic, but somehow I don't think most of the great cannabis minds will find their way into a thread called 'Modern pot dosen't (sic) taste as good'..

 

[panopticist]

I wonder how much of the 'old bud tasted better' debate is due to romanticization.

After 25+ years, can you actually remember exactly what that one bag tasted like? Or is it that it is one of those 'glory days' deals where everything was better when you were young, in your prime, whatever you want to call it, because that's when everything was fresh and new to you?

I have no historical perspective on the situation, as I wasn't around in the 60's, so I'm simply asking questions.

Most of the footage/photos/first hand accounts I've seen and heard about old school bud (from actual tokers of that time period) was that it was mostly stems and seeds. I'm sure you got baked off of it, but I wonder how much of your love of old school bud is based off of the fact it was an article of your youth?

 

[princess cronic]

Grasspass- I miss the gold too. I have been enjoying smoke for a little over 30 yrs. Sometimes I slip and say something about a 'lid' or finger weighs and my friends don't know what I am talking about. It's funny. I like the taste of most of my smoke and it is stronger,however, I don't laugh or have as much fun as I did in the days of gold. Too bad.

 

[forwhat420]

I love Icmag,,, I need to go to IC's anonymous. Reading shit like this makes me want to move across the water so bad...Skip you sound like a cool ass old school head who knows wtf you are talking about...

 

[mtnmama420]

Until the advent of commercial vaporizer, specifically the volcano, nobody was qualified to have this discussion. The tiny bit of flavor you smokers get after oxidization with your mouthfulls of ash, what your stunted, polluted taste buds can distinguish, is a pitiful insight into what a vaporizer user experiences, with our clean lungs and healthy tongues. Only we are qualified to give an opinion here.

Was that snobbish enough for this thread?

Seriously, I loved Columbian and Panama Red, what I could taste of them, but the vast array of flavors being created now, nearly every kind of citrus and spice and more, really shows up in the 'cano, especially if you grew it organically. All our stuff is soil grown with molasses nutes only....tastes gooooood.

...and all the old genes are preserved, supposedly, so chillax.

 

[Mr.Hades]

I dont even see how this is a discussion...


How can the compressed, seeded, sometimes sundried, sometimes wildgrown, shipped in mass, wrapped in bundles, old-age cannabis even be compared to the top-quality selections that are cared for meticulously, feed the best nutrients, cultivated in the best possible conditions, with the best possible equipment, cannabis that is being grown in present times?

Its like comparing apples and oranges, I dont care what kind of strain it is. Its not about strain. Its about growing conditions and the advancement of cultivation techniques. Its called "technology" guys.

 

[mexilandrace]

Its not a symbol of "success" at all. I can see you are nowhere near understanding enough to be even handling these important genetics. STOP.

Its too bad you (and others with equal ignorance)are playing with something that is so important, yet seem to care so little about, which is my main thrust here....

Your small-time sexual reproductions damage the gene pool. Genes are LOST forever when you breed with small populations and with NO comprehension of what really goes on. CARELESS breeding with small populations is frivolous and wasteful of an important natural resource; one that has a potential to be improved now, but will not retain that potential without the necessary genes. Have you never heard this before? jesuschrist man.

and youre even PROUD of yourself...mygodd.

bro, you need to chill out a bit.

get off your high horse

 

[mtnmama420]

Do the breeders of common flowers like marigolds rant and rave at each other, puffed up with self-importance talking about the 'perils of miscegenation' that the commoners wreak in their casual gardens? I somehow doubt it, but you'd think they if they did they might have at least some right to it with their advanced educations in botany and horticulture.

MJ boards are reeeediculous.

 

[VanXant]

Mr Hades,McSnappler et.al., if there are "plenty" of people breeding properly, then lets see your short list of, say 50 of the ~0.5 million people. And explain WHY and HOW they are all doing this good work. If you cant show 50 people in this world, that argument is EMPTY. (you can't, im sure of it)

hieagl420, Im storing seeds so that ALL the genetic material in them that exists now is retained and not lost through further poor breeding. Its a personally-proven fact that cannabis seeds store for DECADES with 100% viability.
If I were to open a seedlot, I would germinate 500+ and make an open pollination of all the good plants so that it is 'refreshed', with purposefully minimized gene loss. I dont even need to open seedlots; I have proven clones that do everything that seedlots can do -in every area of interest. So should you. Clones that exist now do not facilitate the erosion of the gene pool. Poor seedmaking practices do.


randude says:"I will take two plants of mine and breed them if I want. I will make a strain and do whatever I want with it. You can't stop me. You can't stop me from giving the seeds away or just sowing them naturally in a tropical place. You can call insults and have horrible feelings, but you can't stop me. How does that make you feel?"

>>Sad. for cannabis and for you. But Im not at all surprised of your behavior. We were all ignorant of the situation until we were no longer. Youll figure it out.

Skip,
1) Gypsy is one of the reasons why the situation is worse. I know this is not PC to say here, but I dont GAF> It needs to be said. Gypsy was instrumental in the geneflow to equatorial regions, and facilitated the introgression of upper latitude genetics into once-pure races, which forever has changed the genotypes of many many equatorial land races all over the planet. Thats not something to be proud of.

2) I would support this idea 50%. "Everyone" doesn't "know" that the reason for poor tasting cannabis is due to modern fertilizers. I dont think thats all of it, but would certainly agree that modern cannabis growers by and large do not know how to use fertilizers. They are also caught up in an 'additive and supplement' contest, which does not support healthy plant growth. So in some terms I agree with you. I think it has a lot to do with the over-polyhybridization of drug cannabis, the loss of aromatic/terpene/flavinoid alleles, and the serendipitous nature of recovering favorable aromatic genoptyes after generations of unfocused and very poor plant breeding techniques.

On a related note: The First crosses made among geographically distant gene pools had heterosis/hybrid vigor. Today this has become almost entirely lost due to the over hybridization of the drug gene pool by wayy too many amateurs who do not even acknowledge how small populations erode populations or what heterosis and inbreeding is.... Now almost every "cross" today is actually a related mating. GOOD FKN JOB!

Moldy Dreads, there are no new STRAINS/VARIETIES. There are just more unstabilized polyhybrids that people misinterpret as STRAINS/VARIETIES, but they are not. Strains/varieties have genotypic stability, and these modern hackjobs dont have that because they are not properly bred to have genotypic stability. People dont even know what a strain is in the modern world...its really fkn ridiculous.

Mcsnappler:"That's true to say now, but as responsible breeders and seed handlers like Gypsy grow old, and the new generation of closet breeders become the guardians of modern Cannabis, what then?"

>>>Oh, how about no genetic diversity,.. No adaptive ability(cloning becomes difficult, plants dont respond well to adverse environmental conditions, easily affected by pests and disease, wimpy finicky,subvital inbreds(like Blueberry)etc..)... No unique flavors or aromas.... Bland, crystally buds that require very narrow environmental parameters indoors and outdoors because their genes have been whittled down by 100 generations of poor amatur breeding. sound OK with you randude?
yeah.

 

[mexilandrace]

if only all the geniuses on the internet would stop bitching on the internet and actually do half the shit they complain others don't know how to do...

 

[Neuromancer]

I dont even see how this is a discussion...


How can the compressed, seeded, sometimes sundried, sometimes wildgrown, shipped in mass, wrapped in bundles, old-age cannabis even be compared to the top-quality selections that are cared for meticulously, feed the best nutrients, cultivated in the best possible conditions, with the best possible equipment, cannabis that is being grown in present times?

Its like comparing apples and oranges, I dont care what kind of strain it is. Its not about strain. Its about growing conditions and the advancement of cultivation techniques. Its called "technology" guys.

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. It is all about the strain. All the best techniques, growing conditions and technology in the world can't make up for mediocre genetics.
Great cannabis is great because of things like the terpenoid profile and cannabinoid ratios.
Lots of modern cannabis has been bred mostly for the THC content.
No matter how meticulously you care for most modern commercial hybrids you will never even approach the high from something like an old highland Oaxacan.

 

[VanXant]

randude101,
I bet you dont know jack shit about population genetics, plant breeding, biology, chemistry or cannabis botany, cultivation, production.

Ive debated this topic online for 10-15 years, with people who are far more qualified. Youre angelfood cake.

 

[hardhat22]

Many of the old flavors are still being grown in the south.Mexicans mostly,but there are a few I know of that still has great Colombian flavors and effects that rival or surpass most commercial modern sativas.Lines maintained here have flavors ranging from a simple sugar flavor to cedar,incense and frankensense to channel no.5.(Pre '80 skunk)

Hello Van Xant.(I have 2 of their albums purchased in the '80s.)
I'm curious about what you consider a strain.My understanding of Mexican/S.American strains is that they are not strains at all but hybrids of thais etc. that were acclimated as there is no evidence so far of herb grown there in antiquity.In that sense,are we preserving landraces or hybrids?One note.When I purchase a sack of some really good import,the seeds I pull from it are most likely NOT the seeds the farmer had put back for next years crop.If I cross these plants to something else,it's no big deal.The original is still there,waiting for some dipshit to hit it with a male indica.If I accidentally allow my new cross to escape into the wild here,still no biggie,as it'll just go feral and revert to hemp,or so I'm told.
Peace

 

[Mr.Hades]

Sorry, but you couldn't be more wrong. It is all about the strain. All the best techniques, growing conditions and technology in the world can't make up for mediocre genetics.
Great cannabis is great because of things like the terpenoid profile and cannabinoid ratios.
Lots of modern cannabis has been bred mostly for the THC content.
No matter how meticulously you care for most modern commercial hybrids you will never even approach the high from something like an old highland Oaxacan.

Well, You dont see my point...

When i say "strain didnt matter" I mean this...


Take that same "Oaxacan" that you speak of and grow it how they did back in the day... Wild-like with no special nutes, Let it go way past flower maturity, all seeded, and then sundried and bundled how they used too...

Then take that same "oaxacan" and grow it with the best possible conditions, equipment, nutes, etc. and see which one is going to taste/look/smell better. If you put the proper love into it, of course its going to be better.

Also, you guys dont seem to understand that most of the hybridized strains today have some of the "legends" you speak of in their heritage. Its just like you, me, and everyone else. I am a mix of races, Infact I am like 8 different races. What you guys are talking about is like sorta like nazism for cannabis. haha Not really, but what your trying to say is that all of the great strains of today are garbage. Thats ridiculous.

 

[Neuromancer]

I dont even see how this is a discussion...


How can the compressed, seeded, sometimes sundried, sometimes wildgrown, shipped in mass, wrapped in bundles, old-age cannabis even be compared to the top-quality selections that are cared for meticulously, feed the best nutrients, cultivated in the best possible conditions, with the best possible equipment, cannabis that is being grown in present times?

Its like comparing apples and oranges, I dont care what kind of strain it is. Its not about strain. Its about growing conditions and the advancement of cultivation techniques. Its called "technology" guys.

Well, You dont see my point...

When i say "strain didnt matter" I mean this...


Take that same "Oaxacan" that you speak of and grow it how they did back in the day... Wild-like with no special nutes, Let it go way past flower maturity, all seeded, and then sundried and bundled how they used too...

Then take that same "oaxacan" and grow it with the best possible conditions, equipment, nutes, etc. and see which one is going to taste/look/smell better. If you put the proper love into it, of course its going to be better.

Also, you guys dont seem to understand that most of the hybridized strains today have some of the "legends" you speak of in their heritage. Its just like you, me, and everyone else. I am a mix of races, Infact I am like 8 different races. What you guys are talking about is like sorta like nazism for cannabis. haha Not really, but what your trying to say is that all of the great strains of today are garbage. Thats ridiculous.

OK, now I see where you are going.
Your point is you are going to be right no matter what and if anyone disagrees they are a Nazi.
And you would like to play your 8-race card.

Nice
You have a nice day.

 

[Mr.Hades]

^

8-race card? Youre not serious? ...Analogies? You know what those are right???

What you guys are saying is that people shouldnt make their own strains so that you can "preserve important genetics."

How do you know what is important to you is important to someone else? Its not about the strains, Its about freedom of choice. People can do whatever they want and you cant say it is wrong for people to make their own strains because its their right to do what they want with what they possess. There will be those that preserve genetics so that they can use them for breeding purposes, some just save them. Like I said, I have seeds from 30 years ago when my uncles used to grow. I could either use them, or do a project with them, or give them to someone that could use them, but I choose to save them.

You guys are also saying that old-age cannabis taste better than present cannabis because of the "legendary strains" you speak of. Why do people breed in the first place? So that they can make cannabis that tastes bad and has low potency? Are you serious?

Nazis used to want to "preserve important genetics" which is why they did selective breeding in Nazi germany at a time and didnt allow people to mix races. You cant see the analogy? I shouldnt even have to explain it. haha

Hilarious. Im done in here...You have a nice day aswell.

 

[sackoweed]

its funny how some people are so set in their fossilistic if thats a word it sounded good.. lol ways that outside the box means there is a floor and space.. thats it... peace..

sack

 

[eglider]

I think Van Xant's point; Is pot is turning into the equivalent of Europes royal families?That intermarriage between such a small pool of stock has weakened the overall health of the species. I dont know shit about breeding and I probably wont use the correct terms but I think this is the thrust of his complaint. Seems reasonable to me that we see the same weaknesses in dog breeds that have serious health problem in the chase to get desired traits to be dominant.
I will admit the lads a bit impassioned to put it mildly but perhaps he has a good point.
Will the cannabis family tree resemble the average family in Arkansas in the future. lots of trunk and no branches?
Or Prince Charles flying about in his private jet to tell us we need to sacrifice more.
The obtuseness is inbreeding, the attitude is elitist.

 

[mexilandrace]

won't be a popular opinion, but I think the reason a lot of the weed has lost the complexity in the high is the way people grow now.

Everyone wants pretty perfect plants, every little problem is nipped in the bud(haha) and as a result the plants never struggle to survive.

Folks I know look down their nose at some of the plants I grow, till they smoke them.

I dick around with nute levels let things get a little off, all my plant struggle some in their life and the resulting smoke is much better. I don't grow for yields, and I don't baby my plants at all.

I read an article about tomatoes years ago and basically it said that tomatoes from a plant that had some hardships in life were more nutritious and better for us. The plant produces chemicals to help it survive and in turn those chemicals end up in the fruit and the fruit ends up being much better for us.

I carried that over to my pot plants, and I very truly can tell the difference. I don't have access to a gas chromatograph or whatever they are called but I bet the stuff I grow has some random chemicals in it that wouldn't be found in the same quantities in a "perfect" plant.

I figure in the past people didn't have the means to grow perfect plants, and the result was more complex and in my opinion better weed, with some truly unique qualities.