Tutorial Organics for Beginners

[jasonk]

jasonk

It's been my experience that if the plant is alive then putting that plant into a better soil is a good thing.

RE: Fish emulsion - this stuff is bad, bad, bad given the level of mercury, arsenic, i.e. heavy metals. You're much better off with fish hydrosylate which I believe Neptune's uses in their products. Check the label to be sure.

HTH

CC

Hey CC,

I don't typically disagree with people on here as I'm sure you know much more then I do, and have much more experience. I'm just confused why it would be part of the recipe on page 1 of this thread if it does more harm then good. I've seen the typical answer from B1 regarding any of the fertilizer methods and"stick to the recipe" as it's tried and true, doesn't seem to really mesh with your reply.

For a beginners thread, some things sound very contradicting which can confuse the hell out of us noobs

 

[dazednconfused]

b1 - quick Q:

If you eliminate the 2 part Perlite component in LC mix#2, would it make a significant/noticeable difference in plant size/yield?

8 part pro-mix
2 part worm casting

is this substitution acceptable or is the perlite imperative?

 

[vonforne]

Hello B1, and every 1 else.

Forgive my low post count, but up till now I've bin a hydro guy and was happy with what I had going on. I lurk and read when I can. Don't chat often.

Anyways I've been looking for this plan for a while. Every time I used 'store soil/less mixes I wasn't happy (for the green as well as house plants). After reading this thread (yup 4 evenings of ignoring my better half lol) I am getting a glimmer of why this was. So after reading lots I went ahead and mixed up some LC#2 since I had 7 clones in Rockwool that needed a new home fast. Figgured I'd get them going in 6" pots while the main course 'cooked'.

Here is my problem. I knew the amounts didn't jive, but I couldn't figure it out in time. I used the 3 quart pot as 1 part, but counted it as '1 cu ft' instead of the total of 10 parts = 1 cu ft. therefore I added to much lime. Bottom line is I added 5 cups of powdered Dolomite Lime to 1 cu ft of mix (ya i know the math is wrong I used 1 pot = 2 parts).

I haven't seen this Q in the thread so I am asking what happens when you add to much lime? Im thinking I should just mix new mix asap and repot the clones b4 to much damage occurs.

Any input?

Thanks

Your ph will go through the roof. As time goes on the ph will rise above 7. I would repot fast with a mix with out lime and use alot of EWC.

V

 

[vonforne]

Hey CC,

I don't typically disagree with people on here as I'm sure you know much more then I do, and have much more experience. I'm just confused why it would be part of the recipe on page 1 of this thread if it does more harm then good. I've seen the typical answer from B1 regarding any of the fertilizer methods and"stick to the recipe" as it's tried and true, doesn't seem to really mesh with your reply.

For a beginners thread, some things sound very contradicting which can confuse the hell out of us noobs

As you progress into organics like CC has you will eliminate certian types of ferts for one reason or another.

CC is correct with the statement about the heavy metals contained in fish emulsions. As you read and grow for a period of time you also will form your own.

V

 

[vonforne]

b1 - quick Q:

If you eliminate the 2 part Perlite component in LC mix#2, would it make a significant/noticeable difference in plant size/yield?

8 part pro-mix
2 part worm casting

is this substitution acceptable or is the perlite imperative?

It is one of the most important items in the mix.

Example. can you live off of food alone? Or do you need to breath? It is the same with plants.

If you cannot find perlite....use pumice, clay pellets or even sand to lighten the soil mix up for the roots to expand and breath. Without a large root ball the buds will also not grow to big.

V

 

[dazednconfused]

vonforne: very poor example showing the relation between the two...

not quite the answer I am looking for. I know for a fact the resulting product would not be as severely depleted as you are making it out be. pro-mix already contains 10-15% perlite depending on the type of soil. plus, commercial compost/worm casting/manure companies have been known to add sand to the mix.

this may be an option for those who cannot afford, find or rather not spend up to 35$/113L bag of perlite. few bags it doesn't make much difference but when you mix 1000+ gals of soil, time efficacy, money, exposure, etc all come into play.

would like to hear some facts instead of opinions please. have a feeling it would only make a minor difference on the root structure but thats it..something like 10-15% yield increase would be significant and worth doing after all...

 

[BurnOne]

vonforne: very poor example showing the relation between the two...

not quite the answer I am looking for. I know for a fact the resulting product would not be as severely depleted as you are making it out be. pro-mix already contains 10-15% perlite depending on the type of soil. plus, commercial compost/worm casting/manure companies have been known to add sand to the mix.

this may be an option for those who cannot afford, find or rather not spend up to 35$/113L bag of perlite. few bags it doesn't make much difference but when you mix 1000+ gals of soil, time efficacy, money, exposure, etc all come into play.

would like to hear some facts instead of opinions please. have a feeling it would only make a minor difference on the root structure but thats it..something like 10-15% yield increase would be significant and worth doing after all...

Our plants need drainage. They like loose airy soil. Sativas even more so. The perlite in Pro Mix or any other over the counter mix is not nearly enough. Don't waste your money on chunky perlite. Use horticulture grade. I get 4 cu. ft. bags for less than $15. And yes, it IS that important.
Burn1

 

[vonforne]

vonforne: very poor example showing the relation between the two...

not quite the answer I am looking for. I know for a fact the resulting product would not be as severely depleted as you are making it out be. pro-mix already contains 10-15% perlite depending on the type of soil. plus, commercial compost/worm casting/manure companies have been known to add sand to the mix.

this may be an option for those who cannot afford, find or rather not spend up to 35$/113L bag of perlite. few bags it doesn't make much difference but when you mix 1000+ gals of soil, time efficacy, money, exposure, etc all come into play.

would like to hear some facts instead of opinions please. have a feeling it would only make a minor difference on the root structure but thats it..something like 10-15% yield increase would be significant and worth doing after all...

Ok we will get more in depth then. As B1 stated IT IS VERY IMPORTANT. Now taking in you volume of mix......1000 gallons which I my self have done. Then I would purchase the perlite from Home Depot @ 9.40 for 3 cu, ft. for 1000 gallons would be 300. Now take into consideration the amount you say is in the commercial brands of Peat......about 10 %. So, then the amount of pumice and sand in the EWC, manure and compost. Another 10 % So, the amount you would need to really add to the total volume of mix would be rather 10% or about 100 gallons. My math on that is not so good but to guess that is about 3 bags of perlite from Home Depot. Not much money or exposure there. I have seen Grandmas carry out more that that.

And since you already know......In your opinion that the total volume of soil mix would not be to dense to restrict the root development or overall growth and yeaild......why did you ask?

A factual statement concerning this would be the voices of experience (in your words opinions`) that have gone this route before. I myself being one that has done so. I do not now use perlite for the simple fact that it is expensive in the E_U and it must be mail ordered. So, my solution was to use a combination of coco (cheap) and Clay gravel (cheap also) in place of the ever present perlite.

I have before relied on what the manufactures have stated on the bags of commercial shit they sell the consumer. It is tested and mixed in bulk. If you are in fact mixing that much soil in volume I would look for an alternative. If you want numbers then I cannot help you because I do not keep weighed numbers of yield for plants. I can tell you from experience that with out an aerated soil with perlite or an alternative that your yield will suffer per watt of light out put. IMO about 20 %. Give or take a couple of percent according to the amount placed in the medium by the manufactures.

And without root structure......well the yield will be down and you will kick yourself in the ass for that mistake.........instead of putting that 20% in the bud jar or 20 % more in cash ......however you are doing it.

If you would like numbers. Do not put it in and document it and let us know of the numbered results. Then the next time add it and do the same. I bet your yield increases along with the speed of growth.

But that is just my opinion.

V

 

[B.C.]

Those bacteria in the soil aren't called aerobic for nothing! they love air! The happier they are, the happier the plants will be..... The roots love air as well, it's what makes hydro grow so fast, it's not the water. Air is a -major- spoke in the wheel of growing, and you want all you can get for happy plants and good yeilds

Somethin else you need to take into consideration. These "opinions" come from years of experience, and that my friend, speaks volumes! Food for thought. Good luck. BC

 

[Bushboy65]

Jasonk - thanks for the reply. I read that also, in the lime thread I believe. There was some further discussion about even 7.0 locking out nutrient uptake. I thought that I also read that d lime activated over time so I'm thinking that at some point there will be serious consequences to such a large error.

Vonforne - Thanks for the input. I figured the same thing so I repotted immed. I hadn't seen this addressed and since I have a bit of experience and still screwed up major I thought I'd be the silly goose to own up and post the error for others to learn.

I do wonder, however, If I could take that cu ft of mixed LC base soil and add 4 more cu ft or if I should just start again, I live a long way from anywhere so I have huge travel costs to get supplies. edit: keeping in mind 2/3 of it has been moistened in pots and dumped back out.

 

[BurnOne]

I do wonder, however, If I could take that cu ft of mixed LC base soil and add 4 more cu ft or if I should just start again, I live a long way from anywhere so I have huge travel costs to get supplies. edit: keeping in mind 2/3 of it has been moistened in pots and dumped back out.

Yes. Just make sure you mix it very well.
Burn1

 

[Bushboy65]

Thank you Burn One

......and ooofff we go

 

[dazednconfused]

thanks vonforne for the follow up....lol

From experience, using straight pro-mix bx bales is alright and wont cause any root restrictions. you can pump out 8+ oz plants fine with just that. it is rather basic but like I mentioned before, some lack accessibility to excellent sources of perlite, etc. since it would have made someones soil mixing in the future a bit easier, a slight contrast had to be made. anyways..

overall, if its 15%+ in yields then worth it no questions asked. was just wondering...with amount of soil like that, alot easier to buy the extra bags of premix soil. as for guerilla, root penetration is key so thx. dazed doesnt seem to be as 'confused.'

 

[iGro4Me]

Question for ya' Burn....I recently made a gold-mine discovery for my organic growing needs

I came across this soil/ammendment and wanted your opinion about how it my work into LC's #1

Organic Mechanic's Soil/Products

I was actually looking at the Premium Blend Potting Soil Mix with the EWC

Ingredients:

ORGANIC MECHANICS®
PREMIUM BLEND POTTING SOIL
• OMRI listed. Contains compost, pine bark, coir, worm castings, and perlite
• Ideal for growing food in containers, seed starting, transplanting, and indoor plants
• Compost-based mix retains moisture: cut your watering needs in half
• Contains more worm castings and compost than our Container Blend
• 16 qt. bag.


Thanks in advance..

And just a note to those looking for/and having a hard time finding ingredients for your organic mixes....DON'T GIVE UP!

If you're like me, and are slightly sketched about online ordering....I found my ProMix BX locally today!!!!

A random, road-side stop at a hole in the wall flower stand yeilded a virtual gold-mine of ingredients for my soil today.

Peace,

Gro

 

[BurnOne]

iGro4Me-
Just use it in place of ProMix in LC's Mix.
Burn1

 

[iGro4Me]

iGro4Me-
Just use it in place of ProMix in LC's Mix.
Burn1

Wouldn't you know it, as soon as I find ProMix BX locally, I also find a replacement

That's my luck....Thanks man

 

[rasputin]

BurnOne, trying to dot some i's and cross some t's before I get there so I had to ask... if using FFOF w/20% perlite and 1 cup of EWC added per 3 gal pot how might I use the flowering recipe you've listed?

Flowering nute tea mix:
2/3 cup Peruvian Seabird Guano
2/3 cup Earth Worm Castings
2/3 cup High P Guano (Indonesian or Jamaican)
5 tsp. Maxicrop 1-0-4 powdered kelp extract
(That makes the "dry mix". You can make all you want and save it to use later.)
Mix with water @ 2 cups of dry mix into 5 gallons of water to make the tea.
To that 5 gallons of tea add:
5 tbs. Liquid Karma
5 tbs. Black Strap Molasses
Use it to water with EVERY watering.

Would it still be used every watering in those same proportions or would I adjust one of the ingredients because of the OF? Also, while on the topic of OF... is adding the powdered dolomite line necessary? Seems to be a back & forth opinion on adding it to bagged soils. If anyone with experience has found it to be useful or necessary I'll pick some up, I can get a ton of that stuff from a landscaping company I used to work for.

Also, did I read it correctly that the rolls used in sushi can be used in place of the powdered seaweed?

Thanks, take it easy.

 

[BurnOne]

In my opinion, FFOF is mostly peat. Use in place of Pro Mix in LC's Mix.
Then use the guano tea recipe as directed.
Burn1

 

[rasputin]

Thanks a lot for the quick response. I'll give that a try. The seedlings are in Light Warrior now but are going to need some proper food soon so I'll just up them to 1 gals of LC's #2. Appreciate the help B1.

 

[rupertb]

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