California may legalize in 2010!

[CaptainTrips]

Alcohol and Cannabis are NOT the same thing. So why try to put them on the same level. Hell Cannabis has a lower risk of addiction than Tobacco. And Something like 56% of likely voters said they would vote in favor of a legalization and tax proposition. Thats what they said they would vote for. So no its not 100years of propaganda anymore its about getting a properly worded proposition on the ballot in California.

Oh and the Feds have surrendered in the drug war... http://www.reuters.com/article/reutersEdge/idUSTRE55750K20090608

Why compare tobacco and cigarettes? Nicotine is one of the most addictive substances on the planet, while thc is not addictive at all. Also, weed and alcohol are on the same level in terms of "sin tax" reasons. I doubt you will ever see a "legalization" where cannabis is only levied sales tax at the same rate as everything else. It will be taxed "per ounce" or something along that line, just like alcohol is.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

And thats why I wonder why should Cannabis or alcohol or tobacco have sin taxes? Because some people disagree with MY choice to consume a product I enjoy? Fuck that hypocritcal way of thinking. It's just like the catholic church selling indulgences, it's a bunch of crap.

Since cannabis is a medicine I don't think it should actually be subject to any tax. It's not a sin, it's a healthy natural god given medicine.

 

[Rainman]

And here is the most understated part of the whole arguement in my eyes and it is two-fold. MJ is not physically addicting(possibly pyschologically) and they have proven it. On Anderson they tried to put the number at around 8% (disputed)could become addicted. Now funny thing is, is that number is below over the counter meds like diet pills! Alcohol and Toabacco are physically addicting and top the same list I spoke of earlier! Why compare and try to use similliar legislation if they are so completely different in properties? Alcohol effects every organ in your body and MJ effects only one or two and only short term.

 

[JackTheGrower]

The draft language is being discussed...

If you want to comment or provide input please take the time to do so.

I have proposed three levels of permit for cultivation. I have proposed permits since it's wise to 1. Help the state and 2. help law enforcement to find illegal operations. 3. avoid search on "reasonable cause" searches by having a permit.

1. Personal 6 mature and 12 immature. Per adult over 21.

2. Horticulture up to 100 plants.. Limits on possession weights are the same as personal ( 1 pound max ) This isn't about growing for profit it's for horticulture. This will be subject to local restrictions obviously.

3. commercial. State level..


As for possession, I propose, like Amsterdam, being able to carry around 5 grams and buy and consume 5 grams in places that sell and allow consumption. If you go to a retailer I propose that you may buy up to 1 pound and that must remain sealed until you get to your primary residence. Just like buying a bottle of whiskey it's not a crime in the car until the seal is broken.

5 Grams is enough to have a smoke! I know... More than that and it could be temptation to resell.

Being able to have one pound per adult over 21 in the home is plenty.

i can imagine buying a variety pack from the store and having several kinds on hand.

The bottom line is we get it out in the open. We stop going to jail for this plant. We have to work with the rest of the Voters in the State and come up with a useful law to us. It's a tight rope!

For those who wish to read more.. TaxCannabis2010.org


Jack..

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

Really plant and dried bud limits are counter productive to the freedom of cannabis. Plus if the limits should pass via a voter initiative then there is no way around them really. Look at medical mmj. Plant limits have been thrown out in several cases, and most likely will stay thrown out by the State Supreme court. Legislating limits several halts the progress of true free market marijuana. Really i am becoming more skeptical every day about this ballot initiative. If someone coughs up the cash to file with the state, I can draft a much better ballot proposal that would be more likely to get approved and have less legal confusion when it gets passed. And it would be to simply remove all penalties associated with cannabis and limiting the state from taxing it any higher than standard sales tax.

Further more the idea of permits and licenses to sell, or grow more than these arbitrary limits is retarded. It will prevent people from being able to enter the market. It will enable discrimination and cronyism from the many corrupt county politicians and cops around the state.

It sounds good on the surface but really it's just table scraps.

 

[bushdoctor215]

Polls schmolls. This is not going to pass. I wish it was but no way. Just ask the gay people who thought prop 8 was a sure thing. There are more straight-laced voters in Cali then you think. I can see all the brain/eggs in a frying pan with kids thrown in adds now.

 

[JackTheGrower]

If it passes as written then san diego will have 0 sq feet to grow in.

Are you going to talk to richard lee about what I said in my previous posts?

For that matter, I'm curious why you haven't commented on what I posted?

Oh it's not your posts.. I'm rereading so i hope to address your comments.

I'm trying to understand all the points of view.

This is tough...


How do we satisfy all the political interests?

No limits on horticulture of Cannabis..

o Communities will still want rights to regulate.
o People will still seek to make money illegally.

Solution: Responsible citizenry. IS that a reality?

One point I am absolutely sure about is Cannabis horticulture cannot be only for the corporate citizen.
Another point I am absolutely sure of is that any cultivation needs to be a per person freedom and not tied to a piece of property.

That i can carry an ounce or a pound around is pointless.. I'm fine with a 5 gram limit.
That i can store all my produce in my house regardless of how much I have grown is priceless.

Where the issue gets muddlesum is presenting it in the mode of Corporate Social Responsibility.

The answer again is Responsible citizenry. Is that a reality?

I'll give your posts a reread Bluedot.. I'll reply.

I'm self imposing a period of reflection on what has been written thus far on all the sites I've been gathering input.

I will be going to the next meeting so i can present any letters anyone wishes me to.

PM me with any requested statements to be read.

Jack

 

[JackTheGrower]

Polls schmolls. This is not going to pass. I wish it was but no way. Just ask the gay people who thought prop 8 was a sure thing. There are more straight-laced voters in Cali then you think. I can see all the brain/eggs in a frying pan with kids thrown in adds now.

That is the stark reality the 5x5 is trying to circumvent.

I was at the meeting and i gathered they are trying to work within what they believe will fly..

Honestly if I can have license to practice full scale private horticulture then I'd sign off on 25 sq ft for individual cultivation..

We may not approve of all the points but this is going forward.. Best to get involved rather than taking a sideline seat.

Jack

 

[JackTheGrower]

This is bullshit.

I know for a fact the San Diego board of supervisors will not wants sales of MJ so there will be no growing in San Diego.

Why lump growing in with sales, they are two different things?

Why would I vote for a law like this?

When prohibition of alcohol ended the people didn't say let the local cities and gov decide if they want to sell alcohol.

The people DEMAND that it be sold everywhere, as is now the case with alcohol in CA, it's the same for every jurisdiction.

We are winning the war right now, prohibition of MJ is about to end. There is no reason to settle for scraps thrown by our local governments.

It's time to drop the hammer and demand MJ be legal EVERYWHERE in CA.

Just because Richard Lee knows Oakland will permit sales, I sure hope he doesn't expect to use the force of the population of CA just to get MJ legal in his neck of the woods.
An initiative either hurts or benefits everyone in the state equally, otherwise it's a bad initiative.

JackTheGrower, I just won't vote for this law in San Diego and neither will many others if it means no growing so you better take this issue up with the "higher ups" because San Diego has a sizable population and a no vote here will dent this initiative badly.

I agree that the initiative as written is aimed at the corporation and not the individual.

Hopefully with what i have posted that will change.

cultivation is also tied to property and not individuals.

If you ask me I'd say it's a very conservative initiative as written. It favors the corporate over the Individual.

This has been a "Hit the Ground Learning experience" for me.

If i understand it allows for private cultivation but sales and public consumption will be up to the communities.

It's the "trying to set drug policy" that is fucking this up.

To legalize is to legalize. You are right.

More reading to do today Blue dot... My head is swimming.. I hope I'm getting all the opinions correct. I'll be speaking at the next meeting.


Jack

 

[CaptainTrips]

The draft language is being discussed...

If you want to comment or provide input please take the time to do so.

I have proposed three levels of permit for cultivation. I have proposed permits since it's wise to 1. Help the state and 2. help law enforcement to find illegal operations. 3. avoid search on "reasonable cause" searches by having a permit.

Permits are bullshit! So is helping law enforcement. Why would I want to do that? There should be NO ILLEGAL GROWS. Im not going to be informing anybody of any grows regardless of what laws are passed...

1. Personal 6 mature and 12 immature. Per adult over 21.

More BS.

2. Horticulture up to 100 plants.. Limits on possession weights are the same as personal ( 1 pound max ) This isn't about growing for profit it's for horticulture. This will be subject to local restrictions obviously.

Sensing a trend...

Being able to have one pound per adult over 21 in the home is plenty.

No its not. That is like one grow harvest. A small harvest.

The bottom line is we get it out in the open. We stop going to jail for this plant. We have to work with the rest of the Voters in the State and come up with a useful law to us. It's a tight rope!

I agree with that, but permits for one are a non-starter. Might as well keep it illegal, because I ain't getting a permit or allowing any inspections.

 

[JackTheGrower]

It's okay.. I found my position on the issue now..

Thanks for all the input.. I appreciate all the effort to provide contrast .. As I read today.. Once we work it out then it's a pound of cure...


I'm for no limits on what a individual can grow or possess for personal use.

My main issue has been that the practice of Cannabis horticulture was not addressed.. i believe it will be.

Jack

 

[JackTheGrower]

Permits are bullshit! So is helping law enforcement. Why would I want to do that? There should be NO ILLEGAL GROWS. Im not going to be informing anybody of any grows regardless of what laws are passed...



More BS.




Sensing a trend...



No its not. That is like one grow harvest. A small harvest.



I agree with that, but permits for one are a non-starter. Might as well keep it illegal, because I ain't getting a permit or allowing any inspections.

I take it you are active over on TaxCannabis2010?


Drop me a PM... Over there that is.


Jack

 

[Haunt]

25 sp ft would keep me happy

 

[Pay_Attention]

Legalize in 2010? This is a truly evil intentioned bill

Legalize in 2010? This is a truly evil intentioned bill

ack rambling

 

[Pay_Attention]

Also, Jack. When I read your thread over there I honestly got the feeling that you were trying to help bring a good initiative to California. But then you turned around and actually drafted in something lowering possession from an ounce to 5 grams?? For real? Unless you're in on it too I think you should consider what you're doing there - even if you are trying to make it better, really you end up legitimizing it. Some of those other posters are definitely wise to the plan, at least that was the feeling i got.

 

[Jeff Lebowski]

Some people are real freedom fighters. Fight, fight, fight!

 

[BurmeseDragon]

That is way to long to read into, but yes that made sense about the soccer mom flipping out over wanting to much. There is nothing wrong with excess, but it never moves freely. This is a hot issue and hot issues have heat that Government cannot secure and stabilize. I want booze taxes to go through the roof, maybe not so much on beer and liquor but through the roof and then legalize cannabis. Legalize cannabis with production limits, on how low quality it can be and how to not mess up the Agriculture market. You know people will lobby like wild fire for licenses to cultivate and start companies. There can be high quality low THC cannabis products and the other way around, Hash is not always more potent. A legal market requires fact, not delusions about hey this chemi taste good with that chemi. I think some top shelf legal cannabis in the store, would be fun to sell. Booze is not cheap, but people can down a bottle of powerful spirits dangerously. I would pay five, ten, fifteen, twenty dollars a shot if everyone wasn't trying suicide with ethanol at the bar. I stopped drinking, really drinking once I started cannabis as a search aid and don't have the wild stories that others do that drink. So yes I have bias about dying in a bar, having more woman, kids, VD stories, fight stories, easing narcing situations, or any other bar drama like bar flies really being whores. A bar is a wild business, I think America is concerned about hashish clubs and how that makes what bars fail at more hopeful. It is hard and best to legalize all of our sin, it makes pressure go away and a free hopeful life of inspiration and sin. Booze are already expensive but why keep drinking that just to go smoke a a bowl or a joint or buy a fancy jar filled with good homey smells.

 

[Pay_Attention]

For real it doesn't bother you at all? I admit I'm unusually worked up but. Really? Advocate intentionally sabotages legalization?

 

[Pay_Attention]

Yeah I understand it was too long, but if I had posted those claims without backing them up it'd be just as bad.

I guess the TL;DR is you should always read initiatives

And, uh, cheers! Some fair thoughts there even if it didn't really relate at all. Just remember to vote no on tax cannabis 2010 if it makes it to the voting box!

 

[Pythagllio]

Well you lost me when you started kicking ASA.