LED Lab 2009

[LeoRexTyrannus]

Yeah shipping is insane ever since 9/11. Weezard which one of the knockoffs were you checking out other than this one?

I'm definitely going to have to snatch one of these up next month, he's got a 99% positive rating on his feedback, he was upfront, I respect that, unlike these shysters all over giving LED a bad name with bad products at insane price gouging levels.

What do you guys think of the 7 R 1 DR 1 B ratio?

There is actually a "mole hill" on the curve for cannabis around 615, if you look at any MH, HPS, CMH (KING of PAR in HID) they have a lot of light in that "mole hill" area.

If that is the biomass trigger which people are trying to nail with ambers and whites, then I must credit this man as he seems to have found a deep red for conversion, as well as the previous, nailing two birds with one stone... is anyone using 615 deep reds or close? If so then my apologies

Oh and I thought the dudes Hyperbole was pretty good, other than the asinine graphics and the odd choice in font size and style... I think they try to be too flashy, substance over flash.

 

[Weezard]

Waveshorts

Waveshorts

Yeah shipping is insane ever since 9/11.

True, but it's always been a gouge to ship here.
USPS charges no more than any other state, but da greedy buggahs jack the price up anyway. Dey t'ink we're all rich ovah here.

Weezard which one of the knockoffs were you checking out other than this one?

I bought one from "tinybear shop" on da bay. I'm pretty happy with it.

I'm definitely going to have to snatch one of these up next month, he's got a 99% positive rating on his feedback, he was upfront, I respect that, unlike these shysters all over giving LED a bad name with bad products at insane price gouging levels.

What do you guys think of the 7 R 1 DR 1 B ratio?

There is actually a "mole hill" on the curve for cannabis around 615, if you look at any MH, HPS, CMH (KING of PAR in HID) they have a lot of light in that "mole hill" area.

If that is the biomass trigger which people are trying to nail with ambers and whites, then I must credit this man as he seems to have found a deep red for conversion, as well as the previous, nailing two birds with one stone... is anyone using 615 deep reds or close? If so then my apologies

Huh! 615 nm. is not deep red, it's almost amber.
660 nm is deep red and 730 nm. is far red.
Most of the early lights used 625 nm. reds

Oh and I thought the dudes Hyperbole was pretty good, other than the asinine graphics and the odd choice in font size and style... I think they try to be too flashy, substance over flash.

I agree. That dumb "Christmas lights" graphic was off-putting.

Weezard

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

I was mistaken about the 615, that's what the tri bands are using for the amber, this one I think was using 660's for DR. my bad. tinybear shop huh, what was the ratio n yours sir?

They have a couple different ones, first there's that one from one stop grow shop on ebay, which is the one using 660 for deep red, I know KNNA has pointed out how inefficient 660s are due to their chemical makeup, there's two others for about 250 one uses ambers at 615 and the other uses white LED, so given the choice and all things being equal 660, 615 or Whites that supposedly have the missing ranges?

If it isn't worth it, then I'll just get the one with the deep red.

 

[wedintknow]

Skeered of solder

Skeered of solder

The people and the info on this thread are wonderful!

Is it possible to build arrays like knna's and Weezard's without using a soldering iron? Anyone know of tutorial or instructions for such?

Thanks.

 

[unthing]

I too bought one of those tinybear shop's ones. 630 nm red and 460 nm blue was in my model.

 

[DaVinci]

The people and the info on this thread are wonderful!

Is it possible to build arrays like knna's and Weezard's without using a soldering iron? Anyone know of tutorial or instructions for such?

Thanks.

Follow weezard and knna's posts carefully, and you can piece it together with a few calculations. Weezard is a very helpful dude in particular with construction. Knna is more scientifically and theory specialized. Weeze, any wheezes in dis dude's particular direkshun?

also, my previous post kinda got buried under the leo conversation...not that I'm bitter or anything. ok, maybe a lil' bitter.

 

[Weezard]

Even 'zards gotta sleep sometime.

Even 'zards gotta sleep sometime.

Follow weezard and knna's posts carefully, and you can piece it together with a few calculations. Weezard is a very helpful dude in particular with construction. Knna is more scientifically and theory specialized. Weeze, any wheezes in dis dude's particular direkshun?

Well, if ya don't speak solder, contact a knock-off shop and have them build you a custom sample.
That's working a treat for "Ledtime" over on cdot

also, my previous post kinda got buried under the leo conversation...not that I'm bitter or anything. ok, maybe a lil' bitter.

No worry, Da

Read your post, everything you asked is already here.
Just rat about in the user albums, all will become clear.

Can't give ya Watts per gram,
'cause I don't really give a damn.
Only got a tiny room.
Only grow what I consume.

I like your plans though and will subscribe to your thread when ya get rollin'.

The been busy 'zard.

 

[knna]

Hey DaVinci, I started a LED lamp building tutorial. Its still unfinished, but it already explain how to build your own DIY LED lamp. I want to add some more pics and other ways of mounting (there are several different ways of mounting LEDs), when I have a little free time.

Notice I skip fully on explaining drivers construction for the moment. I think that if you are not expert on electronics, the best way is to use commercial drivers, already built.

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

Knna, bookmarked and will be following closely, thank you sir.

Weezard, Da Vinci might be a medical patient with a prescribed dosage or a cash cropper, either way Weezard doesn't write that stuff down, but to give you an idea of his quality he did get nominated for bud of the month in this magazines forum... which is international and so that is a very high honor. Go look at his gallery, he has insane sized leafs on his plants and very nice look dense crystal laden nugs.

Weezard you should consider THC Bomb the strain. I can show you photos of another guys grow where he had 14 colas coming off one 2 ft from a 250W Envirolight CFL, he pulled over 5 OZ off that one under CFL. I think that might be the perfect strain for your personal needs or anyone that is forced to micro grow.

Personally my plan is to grow out this amazing yielding strain as I am, and then crossbreed it with some of my favorites, I'm thinking White Russian x THC Bomb would be a great idea, Purple Kush x THC Bomb etc.

Oh and one more thing if you get a chance replace those mirrors in your grow room with some kind of board, particle whatever, and paint them flat white with titanium oxide, that'll get your reflectivity up to about 98% or higher for about $10 a gallon of paint, far far cheaper than mylar and you can't mix in anti fungal solution into mylar.

I wish I had simply mocked up a grow cabinet in sketchup, went to home depot, got the wood, the screws, the joints, the handles, and just built a grow cab out of wood, solid and strong with a painted interior with anti fungal (killz) and titanium flat white. It would have cost me far less, been more sturdy, had higher reflectivity and I could have put it on casters for easy movement, and simply placed my heavy ballast on top of it, or mount it to the strong wood frame.... the less of this little mini rant right here is avoid grow tents, do yourself a favor, follow the above you'll thank yourself later.

Added benefit I forgot above... try using an affordable muffin fan for ventilation in an unsteady tent... vs mounting one flush on a wooden one

I apologizing for digressing but every word up there is useful to a new grower

Leo Out

 

[Weezard]

Take a penny, leave a penny

Take a penny, leave a penny

Weezard, Da Vinci might be a medical patient with a prescribed dosage or a cash cropper, either way Weezard doesn't write that stuff down, but to give you an idea of his quality he did get nominated for bud of the month in this magazines forum... which is international and so that is a very high honor. Go look at his gallery, he has insane sized leafs on his plants and very nice look dense crystal laden nugs.

Mahalo!
My thumb used to be jet black 'til I started readin' the stickys.
Seriously, I could kill crabgrass with a glance.

Weezard you should consider THC Bomb the strain. I can show you photos of another guys grow where he had 14 colas coming off one 2 ft from a 250W Envirolight CFL, he pulled over 5 OZ off that one under CFL. I think that might be the perfect strain for your personal needs or anyone that is forced to micro grow.

You have got my full attention!
I'll be researching this strain on your advice.

Personally my plan is to grow out this amazing yielding strain as I am, and then crossbreed it with some of my favorites, I'm thinking White Russian x THC Bomb would be a great idea, Purple Kush x THC Bomb etc.

Oh and one more thing if you get a chance replace those mirrors in your grow room with some kind of board, particle whatever, and paint them flat white with titanium oxide, that'll get your reflectivity up to about 98% or higher for about $10 a gallon of paint, far far cheaper than mylar and you can't mix in anti fungal solution into mylar.

Good advice, but yer too late m8.
Covered mirrors and most mylar with "Reflectix" quite a while ago.
Great stuff, I highly recommend it.

I wish I had simply mocked up a grow cabinet in sketchup, went to home depot, got the wood, the screws, the joints, the handles, and just built a grow cab out of wood, solid and strong with a painted interior with anti fungal (killz) and titanium flat white. It would have cost me far less, been more sturdy, had higher reflectivity and I could have put it on casters for easy movement, and simply placed my heavy ballast on top of it, or mount it to the strong wood frame.... the lesson of this little mini rant right here is avoid grow tents, do yourself a favor, follow the above you'll thank yourself later.

I'll second that!
Do it right, do it once.

Added benefit I forgot above... try using an affordable muffin fan for ventilation in an unsteady tent... vs mounting one flush on a wooden one

I apologizing for digressing but every word up there is useful to a new grower.

Amen!

Leo Out

Feels good to "give back", yah?


Da 'zard

 

[Weezard]

I think you'll be pleased.

I think you'll be pleased.

I too bought one of those tinybear shop's ones. 630 nm red and 460 nm blue was in my model.

Yup! looks kinda orange next to the 660nm.
Vegges up a storm though.
Add another 50W or so of 660 and you have a good bloom light.

Aloha,

Fried 'zard

 

[LeoRexTyrannus]

Hey Guys unrelated but I found an awesome DIY EZ Cloner thread, definitely check that out, those prices they charge for EZ Cloners are crimminal... ABS plastic doesn't cost THAT much to make.

Ok so I have read all of Knna's thread and he's offering good prices on top bins, but I believe he was quoting about 3.50 per 1W top binned LED... so 270 initial cost... I could use second tier... they might be better than one of those UFO's... I'd need your knowledge on that guys... do you know what level bin they're using so I know what I need to meet or beat? I'd appreciate it if you could tell me.

Ok that said, Knna covered everything in his DIY LED Light thread I think I need to know except how much a basic model of the equipment to check the current would cost, I just need a ball park to rough out some numbers.

If it's really the best thing to gobble one together, please advise, I know you two are well satisfied by your purchases and that is great, but for my budget buttocks I'm looking for the most bang for the buck and I've got man hours to spare.

Thank you for your advice.

 

[unthing]

Knna, that diy-thread is nice. Weezard, what would you suggest to supplement the ufo with 660? And it seems that you don't use anything but red and blue? If not counting that far red-thing experiment.

 

[Minion]

I've gotta follow this thread, LEDs have been on my mind for some time...

Same here. Once LED grows are down to a science, everyone will be growing.

 

[Weezard]

Surf the trailing edge, bloom as you veg.

Surf the trailing edge, bloom as you veg.

Knna, that diy-thread is nice. Weezard, what would you suggest to supplement the ufo with 660? And it seems that you don't use anything but red and blue? If not counting that far red-thing experiment.

Aloha Unthing,

The only obvious advantage to the FR, so far, has been a shorter time to flower
7 day of 12/12 showed pistils.

And, even that is a maybe.
Changed to 2 color, (660 & 465 nm.) about the same time that I added FR.
On the next round I'll remove the FR and see if it's the 660 that accelerates sexing.

One of Knna's light bars with a string of 5W. 660nm. leds would be easy to construct and should add enough oomph to the UFO for flowering.

That said, I'd still recommend 2 room growing if you have the space.
Perpetual harvest has many advantages.
Think about it for a while, I'm sure you'll agree.
I cut an already tiny room in two, and now a crop failure is only a minor setback and the yeild is almost continuous when everything works well.

Aloha Minion,

Welcome aboard.
Led loonies is fun folk.

Weezard

 

[knna]

Ok that said, Knna covered everything in his DIY LED Light thread I think I need to know except how much a basic model of the equipment to check the current would cost, I just need a ball park to rough out some numbers.

I put some orientative prices of what Im carrying right now. Just sum it: LEDs of each color required* its price, sum the drivers and heatsinks. Thats all, apart of other small expenses as the kapton tape, copper tape, wire, solder...

For example, Im building right now a vertical system, with 4 58W fluorescent tubes (840) and 240 red LEDs Golden Dragon plus, that needs 4 drivers in total (60 LEDs on each driver, working at a max of 540mA, about 1.2W). Thus it cost me 240 LEDs*1.5€=360€ plus 4drivers*15€=60€ plus 12m of heatsink bars*5€/m=60€. Total of 480€ on the LED setup. Fluos with electronic ballast has costed me 58€. So the full lighting setup is 540€ and it covers a growing volume of about 36 cf, a flat growing surface of 2.1 sq meters (about 24 sq ft).

It will provide up to 609uE, about 300uE/m2, that has been my light density target for a vertical SOG. Yield target is 1 Kg. Ambitious target over 2g/W, that I dont expect to reach easily. I will be happy harvesting 1/2 Kg (a little more than 1lb) from it, that is my minimun target

 

[knna]

The only obvious advantage to the FR, so far, has been a shorter time to flower
7 day of 12/12 showed pistils.

Weezard, thats the exact conclusions from the experiences on the spanish forum. I think far red signaling is important on the flowering induction, but that once the flowering has started, far red signaling is required no more.

On the other hand, setups using 630 and 640nm red LEDs are finishing slighty before HPS grown plants, and specially those using some yellow-amber. It seems about a week faster than HPSs.

660nm seems to be at least in part responsible of some lenghtenings of the flower time. Coupled with their lower energy efficiency, I decided to not use 660nm LEDs at all.

But some of the setups using 660nm too, together with 630nm and 590nm, are achieving too shorter flower time than HPSs, so its possible to use them without adverse effects if they arnt the only red wv used.

 

[DaVinci]

Wow, thanks everybody for the help finding stuff! Very nice buds Weezard, and I'm digging the tutorial knna. and thanks Leo for clarifying stuff for me.

I feel loved.

Speaking of giving back to the community, I'm extremely sick today, trapped at home, and with lots of free time. I hate just sitting around, so I made a graph for billyjoejimbob11. (I'm tinkering with some new graphing programs I got. )

I don't know if you're out there watching, man, but I thought I'd make a rough chart of estimated spectral distribution for your current experimental setups. I know the Cree spots you've been working with are separate, so it's not exactly this spectrum everywhere, but it's a general idea of what kind of light is being input into your box. Maybe it can help you gauge what's going on?



- The black line represents the spectral distribution of a standard hortilux hps bulb.

- The blue line represents (roughly) the spectrum of your Procyon 100w with an added 12w of Cree Neutral White.

- The red line represents your new setup with the Procyon and the added 12w Cree Warm White.


I'm noticing the addition of different types of whites appears to slightly boost the spectral output in slightly different ways, but not significantly. If there is a difference, it's that the warm whites have a shit ton more deep-red and far-red than the neutrals are giving you. (which is none.)

Weezard, I know you mentioned you were testing far red, and in a couple posts up, you seem to have reached a conclusion that far red doesn't do much. Do you supposed the added weight billyjojimbob was expecting last time we heard from him is due to the warm whites being a spot light, enabling more light to reach the bottom? My guess would be this, rather than the far red, unless you are unsure about far red still?


hmmmmm......

I guess we must wait until jimbob gets back to us with a report....

 

[unthing]

I was surprised how fast my plants were maturing under the 630 red ufo, as I had read that leds lenghten the flowering by week or so. Yeah, Knna's bars look good.

 

[unthing]

I have gardening related book which states that far red besides flowering induction adds stretch. Any experiences on that?