Split from : The Complete guide to Sick Plants,pH, and Pest troubles!

[mydnytetoker]

Here are the pics of my problem plants:









Hope these help

 

[MynameStitch]

Hey stitch,
Should i keep posting my responses here yeah or on your page? New to this forum, but really like it, it has a good variation of topics and people are really friendly and helpful, which is great!!!
Anyway, the pictures taken of the yellow leafs were the 8th day since it had started! I will try to get some better pics for you.
The strain in the pics that is worse affected is velvet bud but it has just started on a blueberry skunk, on just 1 or 2 leafs and still very minor but there! I also have a big bang which dosent seem to be affected!
Basically i think it may be due to the temps being a little to cold and causing a P def and also maybe a little K def aswell due to a slightly low humidity for 2 or 3 days there and maybe im not feeding them as much as i should be as well. But dont know if you would agree or not!
Basically what had happened was i had started them in a different room and grown from seed for 4 weeks, then 2 week 2 days ago they went into my flower tent which i didnt know at the time had a toxic white floor part that was causing some offgasing and affecting all plants at the new growth making it yellow, so 9 or 10 days ago when i realised that i took the floor out to stop the off-gasing, (the rest of the tent is fine, it is silver lined), so now they are clearing up from the offgasing at the new growth etc but because of the yellowing of the leafs due to the gasing i didnt want to feed them incase it made them worse which i heard it does (its meant to make there food times tenfold and toxic to them) so now they are clearing up from the offgasing and needing food which they havent been getting as i havent been feeding them i think now they are starting to get a bit deficient as the food in the soil will prob also all be used up by now so they are just showing they need a feed so i hope now i am starting to feed them again they start to get better!
But i also want your opinion as i am a new grower and would like to hear from someone with experience, so many thanks again

P.S. how and where would i get a copy of your book stitch?

thedude#1: it's cool you can keep posting here since most of the info is already in this thread; it will be easier to keep it here than jumping to somewhere else, also in case others want to chime in on your problem as well .

Ya, it's good time to start feeding them now, they clear up quickly once they are removed from the tents, that is if it's caught in time before they get too far behind to heal.

The stomas in the leaves close up to protect the plant from the toxic and thus shutting photosynthesis down as well and thus food production stops.. Sulfur is used very little in cannabis and with the tent off gassing issue it's almost always the first thing to show that there is a problem going on.

So now that your plants are recovering they need food now everything is in full gear it sounds like, so now you can start feeding them

You can get my book pretty much anywhere that carries books, barnes and nobels has it or if you prefer to order it online the safest place to get it is from my publiser's site.

quicktrading.com
amazon.com has it and many other places carry it.

The title is marijuana garden saver

 

[MynameStitch]

Here are the pics of my problem plants:

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Hope these help

Mydnytetoker: Your issue first started out with a calcium lockout from your high amount of nutrients you are using. I have used every nutrient you posted and you do not want to go by there directions, espeically when using happy frog soil.

I have a question, you said your pH is 4.6.... the run off..... did you calibrated your meter before using it?
You should have gotten 2 bottles of fluid with it, depending on where you got it.. I have seen most places give 2 bottles to help calibrate it...... unless you have a self calibrating one.
Chances are with a 3 in 1, you may not though; they can be expensive 3 in 1's can.....

Anyways, your problem is you are feeding way too much nutes. Your in soil and your pH is supposed to be in the mid 6's max 7.0 ph.

If your pH pen is indeed correct and calbrated properly; your nutes have caused the soil to become acidic.

eg: 2 tbs/gal PBP Grow, Transition: 1 tbs/gal PBP Grow + 1 tbs/gal PBP Bloom, and 1 feeding of 2 tbs/gal PBP Bloom (as label recommends)

For 1 foot tall plants that is alot for them to handle.... when did you first start to feed them?

After they were transplanted into the happy frog..... when did you first start to feed?
Did you wait a while, or feed soon after getting them into happy frog?

Notice the middle of the veins of the plant in the last picture...... how the middle of the leaf is affected and curled up..... when a plant dries after choping the leaves eventully curl when they dry out.... the same thing is happeneing to your leaves.... the veins of the leaves lead to the plants internal system and then leads to the roots obiously. the Roots that are affected will show on the plant, with the veins collapsing in the leaf the roots are getting injured from high concentration of nutrients.

You want to go by the size of your plants and not the directions with the nutes your using.

I always waited at least 15 days before feeding, 2 weeks in seed starter mixture and then switching over to a organic/semi organic mixture and waiting 15 days and then start out using small doses around 1 tsp per gallon of water and would only use a grow fert for the first few feedings, because I used tap water that sat out.

I would slowly up the dose as they got bigger and would always go by the size of my plants with determining to feed.

With your plants you MUST flush your plants out, that is the only option you have since you have only giving them water the past week I would do a small flush, I would use around 2-3 gallons of water on each plant to properly flush them out. Then wait at least a week to feed them and start low around 1 tsp per gallon and after they recover or start to show signs of recovering you can up it slowly.

Your pH will rise after properly flushing your plants.... so after you flush your plants out with the last gallon of water, collect the run off and test the pH, that is if your pH pen is properly calibrated.

 

[mydnytetoker]

Stitch,

Thanks for the reply. First, yes, I did calibrate it right out of the box with the 2 of 3 solutions they supplied. According to the mfr. it says if you calibrate the ppm, you automatically calibrate the EC.
Second, I didn't start out with the nutes at that strength right after putting in Happy Frog. They were transplanted from cube after rooting into dixie cups (Happy Frog from here on), then into 6" pots, then into 4 gal pots. I cut back when I noticed first signs, then stopped all nutes when it got worse.
Third, I'm still a little unclear about the flushing. I understand HOW to flush, just not clear on what to flush WITH. My tap water is at 380ppm and 8.2pH today. Should I flush with plain distilled water at 7.0pH, or should I just pH adjust the tap water or should I add Clearex to either waters? I am planning on buying a RO system this weekend due to my tap water being inconsistent.
Fourth, I should remove those badly damaged leaves correct?
This is my first grow and for as many as I started with I think I am doing ok for a newbie. I want to thank you for your patience and interest in helping guys like a lot of us out. It is appreciated!

 

[MynameStitch]

Np about the reply!
Ok, good.

How big were the plants when you put them into that mixture?

Do not use clearex, that should only be used for flowering flush, because it binds with nutrients and removes them from the soil and you don't want ALL nutrients removed, just the excess that is in there.
Flushing will get rid of a lot of nutrients in the soil, but not all with the amount of water you will be using.

Did you add anything else to your soil by any chance?

Anyways, your issue is your pH first and foremost HAS to come up..... 4.6 is very acidic.....
If I were you I would flush with your tap water cause it will help raise the pH of your soil with how high low your pH is.. you wait it raised....., even if it is that hard.. I would flush with the tap and then use the distilled water when you water your plants.. cause if you continue to use that your plants can eventually have issues and show hard water damage along with lockout from NPK ratios in your mixture.....with water ppms that high from the tap. If you use distilled water, use a 50/50 mixture of distilled and tap, that way your plants have micronutrients, but not the severity of hard water......

Leave the damaged leaves on until they are near ready to drop off themselves. Then remove them, dead leaf material can lead to fungus and so forth if it's left near buds/other leaves in certain situations, so to be cautious I tell them to remove it when it gets to a certain point, I know the one on the bottom will have to be removed cause it's near dead pretty much now as it is.......


Oh,. it's no problem at all with the help, if I got time to help out and my health is well I donate my time; but I just now starting to come back after a while of being away due to health and not having time with summer here, because I take care of my house and the yard, because my husband works a lot of hours and does not always have the time to keep up with the yard so a lot of times I Have my housework...... (being a housewife is not all made up to be!!) then I have to go keep the yard up and so forth. There is always something that needs done, does not matter how much work I get done in a day, tomorrow is always something new; weather something needs fixed or computers need maintained, or I get a call to repair computers/consoles and other gadgets.........

Just like the other day I had to vaccum few rooms in the house, do laundry and dishes, then go outside clean out the dog run from the winter, drain the pond and clean it and fill up with clean water, clean 4 tarps from the 4 tons of dirt we had dropped for a raised garden we built, mow more than 1/2 the yard clean driveway and the back porch sweeping and so forth, I live out in the country so it's messy with all these trees!

But anyways that is just a common occurance of my everyday life when summer hits
That was another reason why I did not have time lately, I just been too dog tired and with my exercise routine walking/running of 8 miles nearly everyday..... I am surprised I am still doing work after I get done with all that!

 

[mydnytetoker]

They were about 3-6in tall from dixie to 6" pot. Started nutes shortly after that (my bad).

I'm so glad you said to flush with tap water. I didn't want to run to the store and buy 50 gals of distilled.

So if I get it right...flush with tap water pH adjusted to maybe 6.5(?) and take a sample reading after 3rd gallon. Don't use Clearex except before harvest. Start nutes slowly at next feeding at maybe 1/4 strength with distilled water? Is there anything else you can recommend I do or add to the feedings? I'm still at least 50-60 days from harvest. I hear molasses is good towards the end.

 

[MynameStitch]

Don't worry about pH adjusted your tap water right now, first get the excess out then we can go from there.......

after 3rd gallon of water, wait 15 seconds then collect the water and test it.
Ya, mollases is good to use really works good in the middle when the buds start to form.

Ya, you got everything correct!
Well, there really is not anything else I can think of right now..... except when you put small plants into a mixture, you don't want to use a mixture that is too strong, like mix happy frog with another mixture that has little to no nutes in it...... dilute the strength down if you can.... if not then mix some seed starter mixture with some happy frog.
I have always used miracle grow seed starter mixture and I will live by that until they change there formula for it.

ALL my grows have been grown with mg seed starter and I never had one plant show a deficiency up until much later when it was a long time they were removed from it. The amount of nutes is perfect for seedlings, but still using distilled water only should be avoided if you can.

A lot of people put MG down, some of there stuff is good to use, most of it is only good for throwing heavy objects out of buildings though!

organic mixture, seed starting mixture and tomato plant food is about the only stuff they have that is good.

When I first started to grow I used seed starter mix from MG first beans plooped in there, but later found out it was quicker to use peat pellets, rapid rooters and such.
then after root system was established, good roots, not just tap root... I would get cups and put mg seed starter mixture and never had one issue and my first grow got over 6 feet tall after only vegging for 4 1/2 weeks and then put it in flowering under a 400 watter. I would have died to see what she could have done growing outside!!

 

[TheDude#1]

Hey Stitch,
Yeah i thought i was best to keep posting here cos all the info etc is already on here!
Well since i removed the white floor part of the tent which was causing the off-gasing the plants had recovered within a week. But now there are deficient because i couldnt feed them . But now i have started feeding them again at half strength (2ml per litre plagron alga grow) and i will be rasing it to 3ml then the recommended 4 ml, do you think this will be ok or should i go straight to 4ml that it says is the required dose on the bottle or better buliding up?
I ve got a few better pics here for you, with the HPS light off. You can see how light they have gone and also in better detail the yellow leafs, so if you can let me know what you think and if you agree with my diagnosis?
Cheers again mate and many thanks
I'll be ordering myself a copy of your book as well!!!

 

[mydnytetoker]

Stitch,
Awesome, I flushed the worst one last night and after the 3rd gallon, runoff sample was 5.0pH (up from 4.6), 1930ppm and 2.83EC. I calibrated instrument just before this test. I will flush ALL plants to attempt to start fresh because they are all in same media and nutes. Advise me if I am wrong with this. I'm assuming the sick ones will take a week or longer to show improvement? BTW the pH of the water used to flush was between 6.8 & 7.0.Since it only raised .4pH, should I water with some hydrated lyme to help speed it up? I don't want to lose these plants.
I'm ordering the Marijuana Garden Saver today, but in the meantime thanks again for the help. Youre a selfless person. Do you attend any major cannabis events like Cannabis Cup, ASA or NORML conventions? I'd love to meet you sometime. You know your stuff!

 

[MynameStitch]

The dude#1 I would not raise it just yet.... just keep it at the dosage you are using now and wait another week before adjusting there dosage, let them get a little farther along before going up.

It;s best to not listen to the directions on most nutes, exception to this rule is nutes made for cannabis like AN, canna and so forth......

It's always good to slowly adjust rather than feeding a set amount, you could always add more, but once you overdo it, depending on the severity, you end up stressing your plants out more, due to the fact a flush would have to be done.


What color was the leafs before the tan brownish was there....

 

[MynameStitch]

My dnytetoker, damn that EC was nuts for the size of the plants!

ya, flush all of them out!
Yes, you are also correct, will take a week or slightly more for them to fully recover.

I would wait till next watering before using hydrated lime... let the soil dry out a bit then when it's time to water, water just enough until run off comes and test it, if it's not pH adjusted right then add some hydrated lime to the soil and water them.

I have not yet been to any cannabis cup and other cannabis events, but I will be very soon.

Thanks for the compliment! I try to give as much time as I can helping out others!
I hope you enjoy the book, as it's got a huge amount of information in it..... long time to make that book.......

 

[mydnytetoker]

Stitch,

Well, the sickly SSH are doing better. Leaf tips are straightening. I had a problem this morning. I check the room out every morning before I leave for work to make sure the light is on etc... Light was out and the bulb had gone bad. Just bought it beginning of march. What will this do to the plants with an extended dark period? Normally the "daylight" period starts at 7am. I wasn't able to get a new bulb until the evening. I decided to turn the bulb on at 8pm. Planned on getting a RO system, but had to buy a spare bulb just in case this happens again. I hope this book comes soon. Thanks again.

 

[MynameStitch]

It will be alright, no issues should arise from this one mistake, your better off keeping light off rather then the light staying on during flowering.......

When you get it let me know how ya like it or not

 

[mydnytetoker]

I would wait till next watering before using hydrated lime... let the soil dry out a bit then when it's time to water, water just enough until run off comes and test it, if it's not pH adjusted right then add some hydrated lime to the soil and water them.

I'm sorry to keep asking questions, but I read in Jorge Cervantez's book that in order to fix pH problems in soil with lime, you need to use the coarser dolomite lime. I have hydrated lime and he says that it will help but you need to use it with a normal watering schedule. How would I add lime to the soil without disturbing/injuring the roots? They are in 4 gal pots and I couldn't repot them into larger without having to add more lighting to my grow room.

Do you think I should water with hydrated lime, and if so, what amounts?

 

[MynameStitch]

All you got to do is sprinkle the lime on top of the soil around the circumference of the pot and apply a little fresh soil on top of it

No worries, that is what this place is all about, asking questions and learning.

 

[TheDude#1]

Hey stitch,
I am using plagron nutrients, are they cannabis nute's? I thought so. Anyway i started them off at 2ml per litre for a feed and moved them upto 3ml per litre for the next feed, then water alone for the next. And i am thinking of feeding evry second water as i only need to water every 3-5 days on average, do you think this would be ok. The only reason i moved up so quick was to stop the deficiency and to get the plants back to a nice dark green again. So do you think i should continue at 3ml for a while before going upto 4ml or even goto 3.5ml 1st, then to 4ml.
The plants havent got any worse since i started feeding them so i know the deficiency has stopped and they are slowly starting to go a darker green again. How long does it usually take for them to get to a really dark green again? Just it has been a week since there 1st feed and 4 days from there second and they are still quite light. Is this normal or do they usually go darker faster? Just i want to make sure they have enough food without overfeeding and not letting them run out of food again.
So what do you think is best mate?
Cheers again btw!!!

 

[MynameStitch]

Plagron is not cannabis nutrients that I am aware of......
You don't want them TOO dark, just the normal light/dark green they are. If they get too dark then ease up on nitrogen.......

Ya, you got it right on the track with the amounts and the time frame of how spaced apart the feedings.

You got an updated picture of them, the ones you are talking about being light green?
Are the new growths light? Or the older growths?

 

[TheDude#1]

Hey again stitch,
Well its kinda more the older growth that is a lighter green, the new growth is a little darker, looking like they are starting to take up nutrients again and starting to flower nicely. Though there is something else i need your opinion on, and it is regarding heat and light stress, i think my plants may be suffering from this cos its my indica's that are showing the signs 1st, would this be the case? I will post some pics for you under normal light so you can see what you think. Also i am using one of those heat shields that you attach to your reflector, its meant to stop heat spots. Have you ever used one or heard of them? I might try taking it off for a few days to see if it gets better or worse, what do you think?

 

[MynameStitch]

heat shields can distribute light/heat uneven, if i think the ones you are talking about, you mean the ones that have a V shaped metal above the bulb and nothing else correct?

If your strains are mostly indica, chances are they will show it first; indicas have less heat and light intensity strength than sativas do, but pics will help out a ton

 

[TheDude#1]

Hey Stitch,
Yeah the heat shields are kind of a v shape thing with holes in it that you hang from your reflector so its just beneath the lamp! Do you think it may be best to stop using it?
Also i do think my problem has been due to the small fan heater i am using for the night period, and causing the plants stress due to dry heat and i think the plants cant perspire enough so are curling and yellowing, so i am going to stop using that as well. What is the best thing to use? Or do you think i will get away with not using anything as the night time temps where i am are always above 10c at the mo? Also i was thinking of spraying my plants lighlt with just plain water to help give extra moisture, do you think this will help or make it worse?
I have got some pics this time with the HPS off so you can have a look and let me know what you think. And again as always its very much appreciated m8!!!