FOX, CNBC etc... AND MARIJUANA

[smurfin'herb]

Over the last 6 months, there has been an increasing interest in the subject of marijuana to some of the most popular american news sources.
There have been several documentaries and power lunch discussions, and now they are even airing a pro-pot commercial by NORML!

You may have noticed as i sure have, that the "non-smoking" public have been opened up, educated, and updated, to how the world of weed really is vs. how they (LEO) want you think it is. Most of my relatives and people i know, know that i smoke, and they know that i know my shit about it lol. They never judged me for it, but it never really came up in conversation much since it was a given. Over the last six months i get people come up to me all the time now and start telling me facts that they learned from these telecasts. And start asking me questions. LIKE......

"I thought pot was a drug, not a flower on a plant...? i was so dumb."

My answer... You werent dumb, just mis-informed.

" I heard theres this place in norcal called the emerald something, and you can legally grow weed there"

My answer... Yes there is, and its known as the emerald triangle, but you can do the same in any part of california plus any of the 13 other MMJ states. It can only be grown for medical purposes as of now though.

I can go on and on, but those are some of the same Q's i have gotten from different people.
Its sad to think how uneducated people were/are on this. Ever heard "dont judge a book by its cover"? Well if your uninformed about marijuana and have a negative attitude towards it, you are judjing this book by its cover people!! Its not your fault, you have been fed lies and brainwashed to think the way you do about it. If your gonna have an honest solid opinion about pot, then i suggest you better know the whole story and do the research beforehand. What the law tells you is completley BIASED!! You gotta look at both sides of an issue before you can come to your own conclusion, or else you could just be supporting someone else's beliefs, and not your own.

This could be wishful thinking, but i would think that since the government has such big hand in the "what where and how" news stories are laid out, that they are secretly trying to get people informed and used to the new image of pot, so that they can legalize and tax it to fix the economical state, since the war on drugs is doing the exact opposite. Think about it, if they didnt give pot a good rep first, and then legalized it, lots of people would be pissed cuz they think its a DRUG, and that our nation would now purposly harbors drugs! But now that they are seeing over the other side of the fence, the beautiful flowers that are there arent so scary anymore....

Well this thread is open for any discussion pertaining to the recent news boost of marijuana.

 

[Ms Carter]

Temporary and won't do anything. I thought the Marijuana Inc. documentary was much more damaging than helpful to our cause. Nothing is going to change.

 

[sparkjumper]

I couldn't agree more and that documentary was terrible.Professional "trimmers" was entertaining though.Fuck you couldn't pay me enough..

 

[Ms Carter]

"If you find trim work that takes 2 months, you can walk away with $15-20 thousand dollars"... riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. When a Samari Trimmer that can do that "2 months" worth of trim work in a single day is only $13 grand. They called it "Marijuana Inc., America's Underground Pot Industry". It should have been called "Mendocino County Pot Industry" because hardly anything on that show relates to anything in any other state other than Cali.

 

[BurmeseDragon]

Really? Marijuana is a flower? Does that mean we need to find out what other plants and flowers produce intoxicating chemicals to destroy them as well?

Now my preacher told me that pot smokers go to hell, right after the gays; but I never knew that it was a flower. That makes me very paranoid how common psychoactive substances are, I better write my Government to tell them to spend millions and billions of dollars and making this planet respectable for the second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

 

[Hash Zeppelin]

^hahahhaa. Marijuana inc. was fear propaganda. the al roker one was better.

The people that came from the east coast to trim, are full of shit. Those were just 2 drifters that got paid to say some shit on tv.

 

[BurmeseDragon]

What were they full of shit about? I have known some people to work on a farm in BC and have heard of some getting trim jobs in northern cali. But that is from knowing people and not just drifting your way around like a DEA agent.

 

[danny karey]

Yup.....Trimmers are a hot commodaty in my area as well. Trimming sucks balls i think, you couldn't pay me enough do that for hours.


Danny

 

[purpledomgoddes]

one problem w/ legalization/taxation is that it is easily bred.

there is fed grant to collect dna of samples of busts. they've been doing that for some time. but, there are thousands of known varieties. maybe a hundred or 200 stable varieties. let's say a company out-right owns the patent on that variety; they cannot stop a consumer/other farmer/corp. from making hybrid that effectively nullifies any patent. dont think one can patent a naturally occurring item either - like patenting cedar trees of something. so, corp could make super-hemp, gardener crosses w/ bagseed, and re-combined genes are no longer patented.

dont see any promise of seedless, or sexless plants either. fem seeds are closest; but impossible (nearly) to say how genes will re-combine, etc. in lab, could probably make pure strain, that was all female - but how do you prevent a grower from stressing the plant to produce male flowers and making seeds?

that is one reason why legalization/taxation is a rough one. also, what will it do to the lumber industry? can grow an entire mountain full of hemp in 1 season. after clear cutting, have to wait 15-20 years before harvesting again. affects paper, fiber, oil, etc industries that have had lock on synthetics, or monopolies in lumber since 1933. recall that nylon was patented same year as initial marihuana tax act (1933). hearst owned lumber land+newspapers (1933). what has really changed since then? still lots of timber being cut, still synthetic fibers, still corn oil instead of hemp. industries are entrenched.

still schedule I in the un convention on dangerous drugs (1969), still scedule I in 21 usc 841. good thing about state med laws is the comity/state sovereignty of states in the union. check amend IX, X. besides these rights is the natural right; before the legal (really admiralty/maritime) law kicks in. there is no actual injury in fact re marijuana. who is the injured party? should not be criminal in nature; only civil, since no injury to person/property occurs.

in any event, should be interesting to see how various industries lobby behind the scenes to stop legalization+taxation of hemp/marijuana. they have a lot to lose. lumber, oil, fiber, textile, pharmaceuticals, etc. have much more to lose (loss of monopoly capital/dominant market share) than gov/we the people. they know madison ave and how to influence legislators. should be interesting to see the political/industry/legal aspects of mj in the next 5-10 yrs being battled out.

check out chomsky/lippman's manufacturing consent. relatively easy to influence popular opinion via mass media. yes, their opinions are biased. they have a direct interest in maintaining the status quo; ther4e is no reason a fiber/lumber/oil/textile corp would want to compete w/ the natural superiorities of mj. they would quickly be out of a subsidized arrangement of support from tax dollars to prop them up.

enjoy your garden!

 

[Richard Gozinya]

Well put my friend you see the bigger picture, how about this thought relative to hemp oil. The dollar currently only has value because oil is still valued off it, if every country was to grow hemp and use it vs. oil from middle east our dollar would be worthless. And as part of the deal they signed with US, they buy our debt with the profits from oil.

Just think how many jobs are associated with MJ in its current state. Plus DEA uses the cash from busts to do what ever they want, hey guys we need new guns lets raid that dispensary over their and take the cash and any weed. You think they want to give up all that free cash?

 

[purpledomgoddes]

Well put my friend you see the bigger picture, how about this thought relative to hemp oil. The dollar currently only has value because oil is still valued off it, if every country was to grow hemp and use it vs. oil from middle east our dollar would be worthless. And as part of the deal they signed with US, they buy our debt with the profits from oil.

Just think how many jobs are associated with MJ in its current state. Plus DEA uses the cash from busts to do what ever they want, hey guys we need new guns lets raid that dispensary over their and take the cash and any weed. You think they want to give up all that free cash?

the dollar does not have value because oil is valued off it it. the dollar has value because the gov says it does.

it is fiat money, given value by the full faith and taxing power of the gov. gold standard abandoned around turn of century.

several issues w/ simply saying legal/taxed mj would change the world. 1 is infrastructure. even w/ legalization/taxation, industry/monopoly capital will still seek to control it.

example:
the ethanol in derived from corn for fuel is not cheaper than sweet light crude oil. there is only so much corn grown in the world per year. prior to corn being used as a fuel source, was generally viewed as a coomodity categorized as food.
well, huge companies already own/operate huge corn farms. they dont want to sell their corn cheaper than it was selling as a food staple. they charge the same price - or higher. why higher? the amount needed for fuel production cuts into the food supply - so demand increases nonetheless - regardless of what the corn is used for.

if/when mj legalized/taxed, corps will use established facilities to mass produce mj. hard to say if price will fall. corps will do market analysis of premium, medium grade, and low-grade mj on street, and price products according to what market will bear.
same as cigarette companies do w/ premium ciggies like camel, and low grade ciggies like gpc/pall mall.

people purchase gas at gas station every day, when there is easy technology to use waste oils from restaurants (free) to power their vehicles. the infrastructure of the gas station already exists, so people use it, rather than alter their vehicles to use waste oils.

point is, just due to legalization/taxation of mj, doesnt necessarily mean that conditions relevant to mj will change @ street/consumer level. what it does mean is that companies will try to dominate new products and control market share.

btw, about half of the price of a barrel of light sweet crude oil is weighted w/ political/logistical influences. not really tied to us debt to oil producing nations. bonds are traded to every country on planet, not just nigeria, mexico, venezuela, mid-east, etc.

hope this helps.

 

[Silver Bullet]

hope this helps.

yeah you probably just helped confuse some 18 year olds with your pseudo economics.

Prices will go as high as the consumer is willing to pay. Do you think the consumer will be willing to pay $50 for an 1/8th when they can grow it?

I'm always baffled by the complete lack of common sense from people who appear (or perhaps masquerading) as someone intelligent on these boards.

 

[purpledomgoddes]

yeah you probably just helped confuse some 18 year olds with your pseudo economics.

Prices will go as high as the consumer is willing to pay. Do you think the consumer will be willing to pay $50 for an 1/8th when they can grow it?

I'm always baffled by the complete lack of common sense from people who appear (or perhaps masquerading) as someone intelligent on these boards.

they do currently - or more. what would change w/ legalization/taxation?

greater access does not equal less unit price. everybody has access to waste fuels, yet the majority use gas stations.

read the footnotes to raich v. ashcroft (around 2002-03, us supreme court from 9th circuit). the actual intent of congress is to maintain higher prices to act as a deterrent. they have power to regulate all commerce. btw, that is how they have mj listed currently: as a commidity; and under the commerce clause, congress has right to regulate (i.e.g., set prices, subsidize, etc.).

if... mj became legal tomorrow, would that elite cut still be worth 50 coins an eigth? probably. why? only that gardener has it. even w/ the market flooded w/ a million strains, etc - that particular gardener would have THAT particular strain. along comes corp offering 100x for cut. they know value and will maintain it.

diamonds can be made in 2 days now, by several different patented processes, but that does not stop allure of diamond to woman that wants ring. 5 c's of diamonds are: cut, clarity, clolor, carat, and COST.

folks always judge things by cost, and perceived exclusivity. who wants diamond that cost 50 coins?

could u really tell if it was gia certified or not? most folks dont labor over 5 c's, or even know about them. they just want diamond that costs most - w/in their budget.

if mj available @ general store for 45 eigth, or 50 street, folks will pay 45 @ general store where they do shopping - and pay fraction less.

true, economics is deep subject, but brewing beer is legal - but on any given saturday, will find every bar in every major city in world packed w/ folks buying 5-10-20 coin drinks. hard to predict - either way - what the effect of a commjidity becoming legal will do to/in market.

1 thing is for sure, neither gov, nor industry/corps simply turn blind eye to new commidity. they will exploit/regulate/attempt to control in every way possible.

no expert on economics, but majority rely on ease of existing infrastructure to purchase goods. rather go to street level/dispensary, or purchase @ grocery store w/ other staples? some will do both.

mj available anywhere in us currently - and prices are relatively constant, and have been for, what, 20 yrs? hard to say if price will drop 50% if legalized.

what about the 'tax' legislation afoot?. that says it all: IT WILL BE TAXED. this guarantees profit for the gov/corps, and price stabilization.

dont think corps have eyes on prize? synthetic thc already patented. monsanto, adm, con-agra, etc will be all over it. they MAY undercut the market to achieve share of market, but once folks identify w/ brands of mj, like cereal, they will go to easiest source to acquire and stay loyal.

bugular tobacco is cheaper than marlboro's, yet what percentage of smokers want to roll their own? most just buy ciggies - even after incredible tax increases over past 15 yrs.

just a few thing to consider. not trrying to convince/persuade/etc.

this is open forum w/ many opinions. only time will tell what the effect of tax/legalization does/doesnt do. nobody can predict future, but can study past to have good idea.

enjoy your garden!

 

[Silver Bullet]

I'm not going to get too deep into this argument (as if you're argument has any depth to begin with), because you're obviously just going to bury us all in text, so I'll keep this short.

If weed is $50 for an 1/8th at the store (which is the current street price where I live), then I'll grow in my apartment. I don't currently grow in my apartment because the risks are too high.

It's legal to make wine in your home, it will be legal (and impossible to stop anyway) to make pot in your home.

no expert on economics

no kidding... you had me fooled.

 

[purpledomgoddes]

I'm not going to get too deep into this argument (as if you're argument has any depth to begin with), because you're obviously just going to bury us all in text, so I'll keep this short.

If weed is $50 for an 1/8th at the store (which is the current street price where I live), then I'll grow in my apartment. I don't currently grow in my apartment because the risks are too high.

It's legal to make wine in your home, it will be legal (and impossible to stop anyway) to make pot in your home.



no kidding... you had me fooled.

not here 4 drama.

nobody can predict future.

have studied economics for many years, day traded, got newsletters from fed reserve bank. good text to glance @ would be 'theory of the leisure class'. was written around late 1800's/early 1900's. explains how since manufacturing is so efficient now (this was during industrial rev [1860-1900]), that business CREATED shortages to maintain their position/power/$/etc.

yes, YOU may cultivate your own; but remember that many med patients CANNOT. recall, reason for intial mj laws in late 1990's was/is MEDICAL. also, cultivating ANY CROP IS WORK.

grocery stores have not stopped selling vegetables, although they are perfectly legal to cultivate. no garden in every house on the block, nor every backyard. people still purchase lettuce (extremely easy to grow), herbs, carrots, fruit, etc. from store.

but, given your position, and since your knowledge of economics is at least fundamental, what is your prediction for a percentage drop in a unit sale of mj, if legal/taxed?

will eigths drop to 10 coins, 20, 25? betting on decreases/increases in the value of a commodity is an issue that, partially, led to the current 'economic crises'. namely, options, derivative, credit default swaps, hedge funds, other financial instruments/commercial paper, etc, etc.

once the commodity breaches the open market, you will have private corps+govs purchasing blocks of 1000 pound mj - all over the world. too many variables to say the price will be this or that. a consortium could literally purchase huge chunks of the global supply of mj, and dictate price therefrom.
also, if the cost of energy (electricity) goes up, will inherently increase the price of production for the one-person garden(er). those costs will be passed on.

the point is that open market commodities are volatile. that's why they have indexes like nymex, chicago board, etc. the prices change due to variables in the market. mj will be no exception. if milk, orange juice, coffee and other staples in the consumer price index fluctuate, mj will too. hardly any commodities are immune from price changes.

again, not here for drama. free/open markets are extremely difficult to 'control'. but please explain why prices would not fluctuate, change, drop, or increase, and how you came to this conclusion?
is mj really that different than other staple goods that are subject to the ebb/flow/manipulation like other commodities?
and once the de-mystification occurs, and it is not so taboo/illegal, wont human nature exploit it like they do every other natural resource?

NOTE: APOLOGIES TO ORIGINAL POSTER FOR GOING A LITTLE OFF TOPIC.

 

[Silver Bullet]

not here 4 drama.


yes, YOU may cultivate your own; but remember that many med patients CANNOT. recall, reason for intial mj laws in late 1990's was/is MEDICAL. also, cultivating ANY CROP IS WORK.

If marijuana is legalized? Med patients? Med patients will make up a very small demographic of those who consume marijuana. Even if they are in a nursing home and cant grow their own, they arne't numerous enough to drive up prices significantly.

grocery stores have not stopped selling vegetables, although they are perfectly legal to cultivate. no garden in every house on the block, nor every backyard. people still purchase lettuce (extremely easy to grow), herbs, carrots, fruit, etc. from store.

See man, ur comparing apples to vegetables, or weed to vegetables. Do you not even see the absurdity of this comparison? The only thing they have in common is they come from the earth. Okay, I'm done responding to ridiculous crap...on to the rest of your opinion....

but, given your position, and since your knowledge of economics is at least fundamental, what is your prediction for a percentage drop in a unit sale of mj, if legal/taxed?


will eigths drop to 10 coins, 20, 25? betting on decreases/increases in the value of a commodity is an issue that, partially, led to the current 'economic crises'. namely, options, derivative, credit default swaps, hedge funds, other financial instruments/commercial paper, etc, etc.

once the commodity breaches the open market, you will have private corps+govs purchasing blocks of 1000 pound mj - all over the world. too many variables to say the price will be this or that. a consortium could literally purchase huge chunks of the global supply of mj, and dictate price therefrom.
also, if the cost of energy (electricity) goes up, will inherently increase the price of production for the one-person garden(er). those costs will be passed on.

the point is that open market commodities are volatile. that's why they have indexes like nymex, chicago board, etc. the prices change due to variables in the market. mj will be no exception. if milk, orange juice, coffee and other staples in the consumer price index fluctuate, mj will too. hardly any commodities are immune from price changes.

again, not here for drama. free/open markets are extremely difficult to 'control'. but please explain why prices would not fluctuate, change, drop, or increase, and how you came to this conclusion?
is mj really that different than other staple goods that are subject to the ebb/flow/manipulation like other commodities?
and once the de-mystification occurs, and it is not so taboo/illegal, wont human nature exploit it like they do every other natural resource?

NOTE: APOLOGIES TO ORIGINAL POSTER FOR GOING A LITTLE OFF TOPIC.

I'm not pretentious enough or high enough to put to paper the prices of marijuana. Taxes would be the biggest variable.

Yeah, I do have a basic understanding of economics. Let me introduce you to the most basic of concepts... Price is set where supply meets demand


Say the retail price is $30 for an 1/8, and the government applies $20 taxes, bringing the total up to $50. LOL. No one who smokes on the daily is going to pay that.* With most products (and marijuana is no exception unless there's some weird ass curveball) corporations are after the most profit. Rather than selling to 40 people at $70, they would rather sell to 80 people at $50.

You over complicate things by saying it will all be bought up and controlled by corporations. It's so absurd that you almost give me a headache. You're talking about marijuana like it's a limited commodity like gold or something. You are way way off base.

*Correction: some would pay that, but not enough to maximize profits. Also this high of a price would keep the black market in tact, which is contradictory to the whole purpose of legalizing it.

 

[Phillthy]

People pay $65 an 1/8th religiously. Week in and week out. Growers are the minority when it comes to mj. Those that grow their own make up a very small percentage. IF that weren't the case then Canada and Mexico would be shipping thousands of tons of it into the states. Most Americans are on some sort of prescription drug. I myself pay almost $100 a month. You are going to say people wouldn't pay that for mj?

 

[Silver Bullet]

^I already said there are people willing to pay it. Are you trying to act like I didn't edit my post 2 hours before you replied?

Of course growers are in the minority, it's highly illegal. I really see some silly posts here on ICmag that make me shake my head. Is this really that hard of a concept to grasp?

Do you think they will still throw people in jail for growing it? Do you think anyone is going to care if you aren't selling?

I'm done chasing my tail in this thread.

 

[Pythagllio]

There are lots of people in CA that grow, the cops know, and they're left alone. Guaranteed? No, of course we hear about the outliers when the cops act like San Diego dicks. Do you really think SFPD is going to toss someone in jail for having a personal closet? Regardless, people pay the price every day. I'd like to suggest that a large number of people just don't see the prices the same way as you do.

Anyway, what makes you think growing would be legal if commerce was allowed? Here's a homework assignment. Alcohol prohibition ended in 1933. Please tell me how many years elapsed before people were allowed to brew their own beer legally. Part 2 of your assignment is to explain why anyone would pay $20 for a beer when they can brew it legally at home.

 

[FreedomFGHTR]

Anyway, what makes you think growing would be legal if commerce was allowed? Here's a homework assignment. Alcohol prohibition ended in 1933. Please tell me how many years elapsed before people were allowed to brew their own beer legally. Part 2 of your assignment is to explain why anyone would pay $20 for a beer when they can brew it legally at home.

As for question one it depends upon the jurisdiction. In a few areas of the US alcohol sales and production are STILL banned.

Part 2 is easy. Because beer doesn't cost $20 a bottle/can. But why do people pay $8 a 6 pack? It's simple. Instant Gratification. Why take the time when you can walk to the store and hand over some cash, and get a product who's quality, consistency, and quantity are a known constant.