Water Storage,Air Stones & More?

[CLDBD]

Hey all,

Just getting the hydro side by side of the ground. Have had a rough go so far. I got my room super clean and all the good stuff as far as meters and nutes and such. Funny thing is I planted two seeds for this grow to do a hydro and soil side by side. I am new to hydro in case this is not yet clear. Anyhow I have many soil grows under my belt so to say the least I was worried about the hydro side of things.


Well I usually just germ my seeds and then throw them into a 3 gallon pot so there is no transplanting. Allot of folks say this is not the optimal way to grow but it has treated me well so far. This time since I was messing with rockwool and a waterfarm I decided to let my rockwool plug grow roots out of the side and bottom before I put it into the hydroton. I also decided to start off small since I got some experience transplanting with my clones. Well these seeds germed faster than normal for me. Problem is they have come up real slow. I checked on the soil one after 3.5 days and the head had snapped off the taproot upon planting as it had not grown. First germed seed I have lost. So the method I am familiar with was a failure. Got another germed and it is in as of yesterday.

The hydro one I used a rockwool plug and I feel like I am being way to touchy with it. Probably cuz I am . I was worried about warmth even though I generally don't use anything in the beginning but light and water. Well this time I put a piece of plastic over the dish that the rockwool plug is in. I checked it after three days and it had a 1/2 inch root coming out of the bottom. Problem was the plug was resting on it. I was also worried about there being no nutrients available with plain water. So I put some 450 ppm water through it based on a nute chart. I used the lucas formula for GH two part. Well a day later the root looked translucent and very floppy. That night the thing finally popped but the leaves look rather hard and rough and it has not done anything for a day. I am use to these things growing so fast it is amazing. I soaked the rockwool in ph 5.5 water first. I think I might have hurt it with all the checking on it. I am leaving it under the dome to see if it gets better. The seed that died in the soil had the shell still on and it was pretty tough to pull apart. I wonder if that has anything to do with it.


That is the story as of now so onto the questions. Can seedlings get a very light nute like that in hydro or am I feeding too early? I thought the baby leaves had enough food for the seed to survive a bit. In soil the seed has access to some nutrients even though very little at the very beginning.

I also let my water sit overnight in five gallon buckets to get rid of the chlorine. I use white buckets so far and my water seems to stay smelling fine for a good time. I wanted to keep some of that light nute solution to hand water the rockwool so I kept it in another five gallon bucket with about 2/3 gallon of nute water. This bucket is more translucent than the other cuz you can measure with it. The next day it had a buildup at the water line and smells like balls. I am worried about this happening slightly with the waterfarm. I would also like to keep nute water for at least a day. I got some more buckets today for storage. I painted them black. I am replacing my straight water with a black one too even though it has been fine. I also bought a dual outlet pump so I can get aggitate the nute bucket to help with that smell. I will make a lightproof vent for the bucket. I also would like to run an airstone in the waterfarm to prevent this problem. Now the one worry I have is drifting ph. I heard that aggitated water effects ph. Is this true? Or is it only effected if you are trying to get a reading while the airstone was going?

I am not really digging the rockwool so far. I had horrible luck with this pack when I tried cloning with them. Went the easy way with straight water and into dirt once roots showed. This rockwool session seems to be going not so good as well. I have heard everyone talking about rapidrooters. Are these the same as pete pellets? I have looked and looked and they seem like the same thing. Only it is a brand name sold under GH and they say they have their 7 secret herbs and spices if you get my drift. I am sure they are slightly different in makeup. I picked up some pete pellets when I was at the store today to give them a try if this one in the rockwool doesn't get legs in a hurry. I would thing as long as the thing holds together it should work in the waterfarm just fine. I am not worried about them drying out or staying too wet as I have dealt with them before. Just wondering if they are suitable for hydro? Thanks for stopping by and taking the time to read. I appreciate all the help I have recieved so far. As soon as I have something working right one way or another I will get some pics up. The strain is godbud from bcbuddepot. If you count the first soil seed the hydro is kicking ass so far.

 

[CLDBD]

bump

 

[glacier]

i always use rockwool plugs to start my seeds off, when i first started using them, i was bad for leaving them way to wet, and that really caused me alot of problems. and aside from a small amount of liquid karma, i dont feed my seedlings anything until they're about 2.5/3 weeks old....

my waterfarms have a drifting PH aswell... but i just set my PH to 5.4 and let it drift to around 6.4, as the plants get bigger, i have found it's much easier to manage PH, then once i start giving em full strength nutes i have no PH problems at all.

and as for my water, i put my water into a large 5 gal clear jug, pop an airstone in it and let it sit in a cool place for a few days, i've never had any problems doing it this way.

i dont have much experience, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

 

[CLDBD]

i always use rockwool plugs to start my seeds off, when i first started using them, i was bad for leaving them way to wet, and that really caused me alot of problems. and aside from a small amount of liquid karma, i dont feed my seedlings anything until they're about 2.5/3 weeks old....

my waterfarms have a drifting PH aswell... but i just set my PH to 5.4 and let it drift to around 6.4, as the plants get bigger, i have found it's much easier to manage PH, then once i start giving em full strength nutes i have no PH problems at all.

and as for my water, i put my water into a large 5 gal clear jug, pop an airstone in it and let it sit in a cool place for a few days, i've never had any problems doing it this way.

i dont have much experience, so take my comments with a grain of salt.

Thanks for stopping by. I just threw out the hydro seed. The leaves dried out and even though I think I could probably bring it around it is not worth the time and I am not going to put a sick plant in for my first hydro run.

What kind of problems did the rockwool give you from being too wet? I may have the same problem but I from my experience with soil and water cloning I found it hard to have too much water. You get my meaning? It probably is too wet but I think my problems stemmed more from the fact that the root came out the bottom and was exposed to light and air for awhile. I am abandoning these plugs I have. It might not be their fault but I have killed everything I have put in them. Clones and now seeds. I have never used a humidity dome or anything like it either until now and I am going to stop that too. I should just do what I know but I want to get this hydro thing going. I just put another seed in to germ and will plant it in a peat pellet when it pops. What exactly is liquid karma. I have heard it mentioned before. So I take it that what I have heard is right and that they have enough nutes in the baby leaves to keep the plant alive for awhile. It would be nice to use straight water until I put it into the waterfarm. That should only take 5-6 days after planting.

How long does it take for your water to drift up to 6.4 from 5.4? Do you run an airstone in the waterfarm? Do you run one plant in the middle of the ring? If so do you think if I planted the seed in the peat pellet after it gets nubs sticking out the side it would get enough water being planted in the middle? That has been another issue that I am wondering about but have not got that far.

As for your water do you just leave the top off the bucket and let it sit open and bubbling for a few days? I have had good luck with using white buckets and putting the lid on after a day of sitting out with no air stone. I was more interested in the nuted water. Would that be ok to leave open with an air stone? I would not want to save the nute water much longer than that and really it would just be for handwatering at first. I did read where others started a real light nute solution at first based on the idea that the plant was getting no nutes in the rockwool unless you added them while soil at least has something in it even if you don't add any. So if I can get a clearer answer on that I can probably skip the whole storing nuted water game.

 

[glacier]

when my rockwool was too wet, the growth would be very slow... sometimes the seeds would show a taproot, then stop right there. now i soak my rockwool for a few hours in 5.8 PH water, then before i pop the seeds in i squeeze out at least 75% of the water. as for the roots showing out of the rockwool, i use that to tell me when to put em in the waterfarms i usually wait until i see 1/2" of roots, then once in the waterfarms, i keep using just PH'd water until the little round leaves turn yellow, then thats when i start with 1/4 strength nutes, and thats usually not until the 2.5-3 week mark. i've tried giving seedlings a low dosage of nutes in the past, and it's never worked out well for me. and for the water i use, i leave the top open to the jug, and let it bubble for a day or so, i dont store nute water at all, i just make it as i go.

i always put my plants in the middle of the waterfarms, and i keep an airstone in each one and have the stones bubbling 24/7. it's easy to over/underwater with waterfarms, so you'll need to keep your eyes on that and set your air pump timer accordingly, my 3 week old seedlings are currently set to 1h15m on/45m off... it usually takes 2 days for my PH to drift, but as the plants gets bigger it'll become much more stable.

hope that helps!

 

[CLDBD]

when my rockwool was too wet, the growth would be very slow... sometimes the seeds would show a taproot, then stop right there. now i soak my rockwool for a few hours in 5.8 PH water, then before i pop the seeds in i squeeze out at least 75% of the water. as for the roots showing out of the rockwool, i use that to tell me when to put em in the waterfarms i usually wait until i see 1/2" of roots, then once in the waterfarms, i keep using just PH'd water until the little round leaves turn yellow, then thats when i start with 1/4 strength nutes, and thats usually not until the 2.5-3 week mark. i've tried giving seedlings a low dosage of nutes in the past, and it's never worked out well for me. and for the water i use, i leave the top open to the jug, and let it bubble for a day or so, i dont store nute water at all, i just make it as i go.

i always put my plants in the middle of the waterfarms, and i keep an airstone in each one and have the stones bubbling 24/7. it's easy to over/underwater with waterfarms, so you'll need to keep your eyes on that and set your air pump timer accordingly, my 3 week old seedlings are currently set to 1h15m on/45m off... it usually takes 2 days for my PH to drift, but as the plants gets bigger it'll become much more stable.

hope that helps!

So do you germ the seeds in the rockwool? I was probably keeping it too wet. I will just go the staight water route for awhile then. Then there is no need to worry about storing nuted water. I will put an airstone in the waterfarm to help with keeping the water good. I was wondering about pump timing as well since some say to put it on a timer and some say to run it balls out from the get go. I will try the timer and see how it ends up. Do you usually change out the res once a week or when 100% addback has happened? Thanks for all the info. You have been a great help.

 

[glacier]

So do you germ the seeds in the rockwool? I was probably keeping it too wet. I will just go the staight water route for awhile then. Then there is no need to worry about storing nuted water. I will put an airstone in the waterfarm to help with keeping the water good. I was wondering about pump timing as well since some say to put it on a timer and some say to run it balls out from the get go. I will try the timer and see how it ends up. Do you usually change out the res once a week or when 100% addback has happened? Thanks for all the info. You have been a great help.

i put my seeds in wet paper towel for a day or so, then i put em in the rockwool... i just let the seed sit in the little hole in the rockwool with a little piece ontop blocking the light, i like to give the seeds lots of room in there.

as for the timer on the waterfarm, it seems to always be different... my last grow i had them on 24/7 and everything was fine, but this time around i needed the timer on them as they were getting overwatered. just keep an eye on your plants and they'll let you know what they want.

for adding back water/nutes, i like to keep things simple, i use the lucas formula....my last grow i just added the nutes, then plain ph'd water after that as needed.. and a rez change once a week.. the current grow i just started i'm gonna try using the add back formula with the lucas formula.. it wont be long before you've got big ass plants, and you wont be ble to move your waterfarms around so easily, so you'll need to make a plan for when that happens. the trick with the waterfarms is to use the hose on the waterfarm as a drain, just turn the fitting and let the water drain into another container, and from there check your PH and TDS. i've got my waterfarms sitting on little blocks to make it easier to drain.

it wasnt that long ago i remember myself asking those very same questions. if you need any more tips just ask..

 

[CLDBD]

i put my seeds in wet paper towel for a day or so, then i put em in the rockwool... i just let the seed sit in the little hole in the rockwool with a little piece ontop blocking the light, i like to give the seeds lots of room in there.

as for the timer on the waterfarm, it seems to always be different... my last grow i had them on 24/7 and everything was fine, but this time around i needed the timer on them as they were getting overwatered. just keep an eye on your plants and they'll let you know what they want.

for adding back water/nutes, i like to keep things simple, i use the lucas formula....my last grow i just added the nutes, then plain ph'd water after that as needed.. and a rez change once a week.. the current grow i just started i'm gonna try using the add back formula with the lucas formula.. it wont be long before you've got big ass plants, and you wont be ble to move your waterfarms around so easily, so you'll need to make a plan for when that happens. the trick with the waterfarms is to use the hose on the waterfarm as a drain, just turn the fitting and let the water drain into another container, and from there check your PH and TDS. i've got my waterfarms sitting on little blocks to make it easier to drain.

it wasnt that long ago i remember myself asking those very same questions. if you need any more tips just ask..

That makes allot of sense for planting the seeds. I might try some rockwool cubes later. These are rockwool plugs. They are 1inch round and about 1.75 inches long. They are split down the middle to place clones in. When it was done soaking I shook it out without crushing it. I placed the seed in and had to tie some string around it to keep the thing closed. Even then I feel it was letting too much light in so I gave it a little water and kind of smushed the top together so no light was getting in. Soon it dried out enough to pop the top open again so I put it in a makeshift humidity dome. I was also worried about it drying out too much. I am used to soil and have found it is really hard to overwater if you have good drainage and airflow. I guess I have to get used to the rockwool.


I was kind of expecting to have to set my water timing up for what my plants tell me. That is how I do it in soil. What I plan to do when I set the farm up is to change the res once a week and add back during the week to keep it topped off. I will be using the lucas formula with GH nutes. So when I add back straight ph'd water I just do the formula again to figure how much nutes to add. I also plan on putting the farm up on blocks to make it easy to drain. I know it will reach a point where it will be tough to move but this grow is small so I only have one waterfarm. If I can get the hang of it I will add two more. So all I will ever have is three. When I cleaned my hydroton I strained the pebbles in the red bucket and let it sit in the sink for a bit and then I put it in a 5 gallon bucket to finish draining. Seemed to work great. So in the future if I want to clean out the water bucket I can just lift out the hydroton bucket and set it in a clean 5 gallon bucket while I do what I need to do.


One more thing about the pump. I keep seeing all these warnings about the pump siphoning water if the power were to go out. Would this not happen when the pump is off during the off cycles of the timer? Is there a location to mount the pump to prevent this or should I just go get some checkvalves?

I really appreciate all the info you have given. It is nice to speak directly with someone who also uses waterfarms. I hope I can get it up and running soon. Thanks again.

 

[glacier]

sounds like you've got a solid plan, as long as you dont fill your farm to the tits with water i cant picture the pump siphoning water... i've never heard of that happening.

 

[dubwise]

Hey CLDBD. I use waterfarms for my tomatoes and at first I ran the drip with the same timer as my ebb & flow...every 2 hours for 15 minutes each. The plants did not respond too well. A week later I switched the waterfarms to a 12/12 schedule and the plants are responding rather well. I've got roots coming out of the bottom of the net pots after 3 weeks of growth. If you have a variable speed airpump for the waterfarm, you can reduce the splash over effect that too much flow can offer.
We worked with rockwool and never had a lot of success, plenty of people use it and have terrific results (I'm just not one of them), we have had great results with rapid rooter plugs. Germinating the seed in the papertowel first and then moving on to the rapid rooter has really been good to us.
Good luck with your grow!

 

[CLDBD]

sounds like you've got a solid plan, as long as you dont fill your farm to the tits with water i cant picture the pump siphoning water... i've never heard of that happening.

It mentioned that in the instructions to the new pump I bought. Also I have heard it mentioned around here before. I don't see how it would work unless the pump was put below the water level. I will be placing my pumps above the water level.

 

[CLDBD]

Hey CLDBD. I use waterfarms for my tomatoes and at first I ran the drip with the same timer as my ebb & flow...every 2 hours for 15 minutes each. The plants did not respond too well. A week later I switched the waterfarms to a 12/12 schedule and the plants are responding rather well. I've got roots coming out of the bottom of the net pots after 3 weeks of growth. If you have a variable speed airpump for the waterfarm, you can reduce the splash over effect that too much flow can offer.
We worked with rockwool and never had a lot of success, plenty of people use it and have terrific results (I'm just not one of them), we have had great results with rapid rooter plugs. Germinating the seed in the papertowel first and then moving on to the rapid rooter has really been good to us.
Good luck with your grow!

Hey, thanks for stopping by. I like to hear from you waterfarm users. So do you mean you have the water on for 12 hours and then off or is it on for 1 hour and then off one hour? My pump is not variable speed but the new one I bought has a couple regulator valves. I think the second pump I got was too big. I was being a dumbass when I bought it. I was wanting two outputs and the smallest that came with two was for a 60 gallon tank. I could have taken a smaller pump and added a splitter. Oh well, it might come in handy when I expand.


I have had horrible luck so far with rockwool as well. Not saying it is the rockwools fault. I have used peat pellets before and they worked just fine. I was at the store the other day and they were putting out the gardening stuff so I picked up some of the peat pellets. I have heard of others using rapid rooters. I just don't know where to get them without ordering. I looked them up and they seem to be just like a peat pellet but with GH's proprietary ingredients. I am sure these peat pellets will do. If I have trouble with them I might just break down and order some rapid rooters. Thanks for the info.