Photo-shock method (strain suggestions?) for: plant in spring/harvest EARLY (summer)

[greenbeanz]

I would like to move away from AF strains but maintain (or increase) VERY early harvest this year. BC canada area location, aprox {edit} 49 degrees

A few years back, I was working on a project with c99 x mystery early outdoor as genetics for breeding a strain that I could:
-veg (root) cuttings for 1-2 weeks under 24h
-place outside in April (my location)
-and have the plants begin to flower immediately
AND not re-veg as the days get longer,
finish up and harvest small "buds on a stick" 6-10 weeks later
-AND do this consistently

(With some strains it might also make sense to flower for 1-2 weeks indoors (12-12?) but with the strains I was playing with in the past, this did not help). I am still open to the possibility of trying this.

I have since lost these genetics and focused efforts elsewhere, but this year I plan to focus ALL of my effort in this direction.

Relevant links:
(sorry guys I am a new member on this site so I can not post real links, hope I don't offend anyone here by trying to get around this, you will have to copy & paste)
-icmag(dot)com/ic/showthread.php?t=66106 extreme (non autoflowering) photoperiod sensitivity thread
-icmag(dot)com/ic/showthread.php?t=47579 beginning of Outdoor Strainguide post also mentions some early strains here

History:
I first learned of this technique being utilized for multiple harvests in Hawaii, but didn't try anything myself until around 2001 or so. I spent 2-3 years trying to find anything that would work (non-AF) and only had moderate success with the c99 x unknown strain mentioned above. I also had moderate success (about 30-50 % of cuttings would continue flowering and finish while the rest would re-veg or slowly dwindle..) with a sour diesel based cutting.
I recently spent several days/ weeks researching this subject online, and only a few references.

Relevant strains:
-Nigerian Nightmare (no longer available anywhere I can find)
-***Danish outdoor strains???
-ak47
-rumor has it some MM (mighty mite) are not actually AF - any thoughts?
-greens offerings (guerilla gold..., etc might be useful in breeding but not in its self what I am looking for)
-early sativa/s -my experiences suggest that sativa dominant strains tend to be more photoperiod sensitive...
-any offerings from jaysprout-Boreal Genetics still kicking around?
-"diesel" based strains
-easy sativa

Anyways, for the strain to work for me, it must be cloneable.

Anyone have any input or care to discuss this topic in more detail?

Thank You!

 

[medicine farmer]

tough question man...how rapidly do the days begin lengthening? i know in my area thet never gain more than 1 or 2 minutes per day....i feel that the days getting shorter (esp. in larger chunks) makes the plant respond very much like if the days are already shorter....

PS hitting hard with PK and using very lil N, as well as being a little bit rootbound might help too!

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

I would like to move away from AF strains but maintain (or increase) VERY early harvest this year. BC canada area location, aprox 42 degrees...

High there!
First of all, you couldn't live at 42 degrees in British Columbia, other than Vancouver island the whole southern boarder sits on the 49th parallel. If you lived on the west coast of North America at 42 degrees, that would put you right on the Oregon/California boarder.

Doing the shock thing is easy for growers in Hawaii because they sit so close to the equator, the light cycle stays near 12/12 nearly year round, or close enough that you could put a mature plant out any time of the year and have bud in a couple months.

Doing the shock thing in North America would be a lot harder in late spring/early summer, this is because this is the part of our year with the longest days(near the summer solstice), here is a short example of the differences between here and Hawaii on June 21st-


Honolulu, Hawaii 21.3° N- 13h 25m

Humboldt county, CA 40° N- 15h 57m
Vancouver,BC 49.2°N- 16h 14m

As you can see, even on the longest day of the year(in the Northern Hemisphere), Hawaii has a day short enough to maintain blooming in most strains of Cannabis, but up north here it would be quite hard to maintain blooming during the longest days.

Now if you had a climate that would allow you do this from Feb or Mar to April or May, the days are short enough and you could probably accomplish what you are after, growers in parts of California, and the rest of the southern USA often do exactly this because of the often mild climates.

In short, if you want to grow and harvest bud outdoors through the longest days of the year in the north, you need to look into forcing(capping).

Good luck!

 

[greenbeanz]

backcountry- thanks for checking my "math" ! You are correct, I am somewhere around 49 degrees...

I am not interested in bagging plants (black box) if that is what you referring to as "capping" - way too time consuming. I believe "capping" refers to covering (partially or fully) the main growth shoot/s. I do not/ will not visit my plants anywhere near often enough to even consider this.


I am open to the possibility of "forcing" by beginning to flower under 12-12 and then placing outdoors after a few weeks. I would kind of prefer to not begin flowering indoors, but whatever works, works.

Daylight hours near my location: (twilight to twilight)
april 1 - ~14h
april 20 ~15h

june 21 (you posted ~16.5 h but twilight to twilight is probably 17+h)

april would be aprox. when I put cuttings out. Obviously not 12-12 AND days are getting longer, but my experiences have proved that it <B>IS possible to put clones out that were under veg 24h and have them begin flowering immediately. </B>

This type of stain has been described as "photoperiod sensitive"


Yes some plants/ strains will revert to veg, this is where I am looking to hear others experiences/ advice...

I was under the impression that this type of method could be referred to as a "photoshock method" - yes, the fact that the days are already long and getting longer does have in impact, but I don't believe this is a hurdle that can't be overcome...

Any strain related advice for this type of "photoshock method" = plants under 24h that begin to flower when light cycle is reduced, decent or better chance that they will not reveg

OR

Any strain related advice for other methods of "forcing" - (Where plants are vegged indoors, and one method or another is used to "shock" them into beginning flowering- (including some time flowering indoors)

any info about strains that may be particularly suitable for these types of manipulations without reveging ?

SO basically, what I am looking for is a clone-able strain that can be maintained (or at least cloned) under veg 24h but begins to flower immediately when placed under 14-17 h. The real catch is that it also needs to be able to withstand the confusion/ stress of the day length increasing without revegging.

thank you! thank you! thank you!

 

[BACKCOUNTRY]

Hey good luck on your search, I just don't think a strain exists that will continue blooming even as the days get longer that late in the year, I'll be very interested to see it though if I am wrong.....

 

[Gunnarguchi]

Nordic/Danish genetics would be a possibility if your not looking for AF genetics like lowryder and LR hybrids

Guerrilla Gold from Greenz should also be early

regarding danish early and mold resistant genetics heres a few links

http://icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=80043

http://www.icmag.com/ic/showthread.php?t=107100 ( to be updated with more info soon)

 

[johnyhash]

I Plan to do somethng simmilar with my timewarp x lowryder, and geurilla gold #2. They are both cloneable but vegging cuts need 24hours light to stay out of flower. I think GG x lowryder strain could accomplish what you need. Have you thought about makng colodial silver to femminise your early strain for seed patches, might be worth a thought, there is a good cs thread in here and its easy to make.

timewarp x lowryder

 

[greenbeanz]

I Plan to do somethng simmilar with my timewarp x lowryder, and geurilla gold #2. They are both cloneable but vegging cuts need 24hours light to stay out of flower.

[/U]

Any experience with the strains you mention in regards to whether or not they will re-veg (even if the days are getting longer?)

thanks for all the tips- I have made (and may make some still this winter ) female seeds (using giberellic (sp?) acid. I have never tried cs)..

I do have one of the lowrider crosses -autoak47, and I am also a big fan of the timewarp, but I have beem keeping it around for other reasons- hadn't thought of using it for breeding purposes- do you think that it may be adding some beneficial genetics to the mix as far as our goals are concerned?


ALSO- thanks for the links to danish outdoor discussion- this is exactly what i was looking for

cheers

 

[Midas]

I have done that several times but I live in the southern Appalachian region.
I usually put them out ( after forcing flowering indoors) around mar 1 but do to unpredictable weather I have had years where I had to put them out as late as April 1. I never had much luck with the short indica varieties (under 8 wks indoor) they seem to ripen too fast under the very short march days . The long flowering pure sativas seem to be more prone to re veggin too early ( i did have great luck with the f2 i made of the kali mist i brought back from 98 cannabis cup but haven't grown it for years). I dont know if this helps but i use strains that are a medium to medium / long (8 or 9 week) flowering time.

 

[phate]

I am doing it this year at 49 N. Clones are vegging in dixie cups under 24hours of MH. They took 2 weeks to root, and have been in cups now for 1 week. they are growing in 1/2 FFOF, 1/2 Sunshine 4.

They will transplant into 1 gal pots and move into a greenhouse on feb 5. I have a small heater in there to keep it from freezing.

I just worry about the light intensity that early in the year. I guess we will see how it goes!

 

[Robin_of_Loxxy]

why do you not want to use the autoflowerers? Bad experience of some sort?

 

[Midas]

I have never personally cared much for the effect of the ruderalis strains. in fact many of the equatorial and tropical strains that I would love to grow I find myself adding more and more indica to the gene pool , just to make my some of my columbian , thai and hawaiian strains doable here. That is always the goal for me is to make/ grow varieties that have the sativa effect I want with enough indica to make it possible. Everyone has their own buzz preference for me I just dont have a use or a love for the effect of autoflowering strains

 

[Robin_of_Loxxy]

have you ever smoked the auto ak? Did you find it weak or whatever too?

 

[Midas]

no , i never tried an auto ak, i have had simons ak ( from serious seeds) both when he entered it as a sativa and later as an indica ( what i understand it is a 50/50 hybred that can show differnent phenotypes , your breeding goals lead to different outcomes) the ak i grow is the mostly indica pheno( the sativa pheno was too edgy, cold shivers, paranoia not like the sativas of yor ) but i have had latlet lowryder and i was not that impressed it was like all the other ruderalis hybrids. waht i mean by that isnt that it is too weak (although it is) it is also the wrong kind of effect "buzz" i strive for a ceiling-less , up buzz that leans towards the psychedelic side ( even-though i enjoy the giggle,genius, and speed phenotypes of other sativas too) that is only my humble opinion some people like the couchlock or even the pleasant body tingle of the indicas but that is just not my bag eventhough i see the necessary evil of their use in my breeding projects but the rueralis strains give too much up

 

[Midas]

please excuse my mis spellings, im a bit drunk

 

[Midas]

greebeanz, didnt want to take over your thread . im not sure you can finish a good spring harvest in canada but it is worth a shot, let us know your results. I would try a chemdawg or ( giving your region) a satine pheno blueberry( you will love the highland oaxican gold buzz) sativas seem to fair a bit better when the day increases drastically +$ sunrise and sunset (you can finish a sativa well under 14 instead of 12 indoors) ,but givin your later last frost date i would also take "robin of loxxy's" advise and try a ruderalis strain too

 

[Midas]

ps watch mold , the springs here are very humid to just plain rainy and wet what i understand bc get its share of moisture in the spring too, breed for a mold resistant trait and try to get 8 weeks of veg on the indicas before you set out to photo-shock ( as little as 4 weeks if you use t-5 to veg (75% blue/25% red)the mostly sativas dont need to have much or any vegetation period you can start some of them under 12/12 .personally i like to "prime" all my spring harvest plants by flowering for 2 weeks before i set them out beginning mar 1 to apr 1
that is mostly cause i want to know the sex and to feed as many hours of light before i go to the short days of march
try everything ( every bag seed every variety you can) if you have the space available you never know what works for you, like the kali i had in the spring of 2000, it was an f2 of the 3 phenos ( 1 never seemed to finish, 1 was like the original about 11 weeks and only 1 worked as a spring harvest with 9 weeks)genetics are alot like a box of choclates you never know what you are going to get. i always have to go back 2 generations and sometimes more to ellimate seeds out of parent stock that the prodigy or grandprodgy didnt blossom as i would hope.