Alternative Energy Thread!

[Space Toker]

I COULD have started a thread ranting and raving on the dangers of global warming and how evil oil is, and what I would like to do with all those oil barons that keep us from making real progress in sustainable energy independence. But I won't! Anyone besides me think even Obama and especially everyone else is not doing enough in this regard? 50 or 80% or whatever it is, energy generated from renewable energy by 2050? WTF?! There is no reason why it can't be 100% by 2020 or sooner, we sent a man to the moon in less than 10 years for God's sakes! Anyway....

the purpose here is for people to post up ideas or links on wind, solar, biodiesel and so on. To look for solutions and not problems. I hope people will please chime in and hope that even people who have no problem with "fossil fuels" can see the wisdom and self sustainability and energy independence alternative energy can bring!

 

[CaptainStoner]

The trouble with methyl-ester biodiesel is that there isn't sufficient quantities of waste cooking oil around suitable for transtetrification, to fuel the cars of a country the size of the US. So it has to be made straight from crops - this has been happening in europe, and biodiesel crops are now competing with food crops which is causing problems in certain countries. The raw oil which is converted uses only the fruit of the flower, usually rapeseed. It may, however be, that there is enough space in the US that could be used to farm such crops, which is not already used as farming, to make a big difference. Cooking oil cannot, AFAIK, be converted to make it run in a petrol powered engine.

Petrol powered engines can however be run on ethanol. This has exactly the same problems as biodiesel as most ethanol production only uses certain parts of plants. Ethanol isn't a good solution as its just as polluting as petrol anyway, and most engines would need extensive overhaul/retuning to run it.

There is an alternative. A compound called Butanol can be made using, IIRC, some form of staph bacteria. This bacteria can convert anything which contains cellulose into cellulosic butanol, even waste paper. This compound is very clean burning, requires no changes to existing engine technology, no changes to a vehicle to run it, just pour it in the tank and away you go. Therefore, it can be made en masse from the waste materials of any crops we actually use, grass cuttings, anything. In terms of renewable fuels for cars, cellulosic butanol is the final word.

As goes other energy.. We humans like to live in enclosed, roofed areas called houses. These roof spaces are often wasted. There is a new kind of solar panel technology being developed which is more efficient, and cheaper to make. If every house had grid-tied solar panels across the roof, which can be made cheaply, and perhaps some wind turbines, Hydroelectricity could take up the slack. I've seen rivers in europe where there is a series of hydroelectric units, one after the other, all the way down a hill. This is basically free energy paid for by gravity. The energy gathering technologies just mentioned are well developed and being further developed. These technologies, if handled correctly, could spell the end for the internal combustion engine as a method of powering transport, particularly if combined with the regenerative braking systems you see on cars like the lexus rx these days.

The biggest, most pressing matter for renewable energy, the biggest culprit of all things stopping us from having clean, renewable energy will surprise you. It is the common battery. The charge density (amount of power per cubic inch) on common batteries is insufficient, they are too resource hungry to make, and are too inneficient at storing energy - a typical battery will lose 10% of all energy put into it.

So the solution we need more than anything, is a replacement for the battery. If someone can come up with an efficient enough device to replace it, all things are possible.

 

[Dr Dog]

Hemp makes a great Biodeisel

 

[NOKUY]

im all for alternative fuels, but i dont think you can call oil "evil"

stop buying gas and MAYBE you can put exxon out of business, but all they are doing is giving you what you want/need.

 

[okwildfire]

let's see here..bio-diesle..no thank's..to dirty...ethonol..lol what a joke..yeah..put it in you ride if you want to start walking soon...bad nasty shit..kill's your engine..it spew's just as much pollution as anything...even bio-diesle...and to make it? not even going to get started..lol...Wait! what's that? natty gas? wow! will car's run on it? hell yes! better than all above....how much do we have? more than you will ever know......ok...for house's..what's wrong with wind power? nothing! it's awsome! coal? nothing it's awsome! we have a shit load..more then you know...solar power? fuckin A! just look at Mojave, CA...hell they have been doing it out there for 20 year's! And out west...Thermal well's! hel when i was out there..(sadly most of my life lol) that's what i did..thermal well's..with golden state drilling (and for LEO trying to figure out who i am? good luck..it's been awhile lol)...I mean come on folk's..there's so many different way's of energy it's not even funny..Way's we can do it without forcing north american farmer's and land owner's to grow corn and other grain's for bunk ass fuel...we need that shit to FEED OUR FOOD! lol...damnit...i forgot about nuclear power..bout as clean as it get's...Please dont bash on me...I THINK i still have a opinion...and what i stated are fact's...i work for the largest tech company in the world..i'm on the oilfield service side of said company...guess who made your credit card's? lol yeah...a freaking french company..that started in the oilfield! with just two brother's...now they are the world's tech leader! guess who's dumping more cash into ALT. energy? well, beside's some of those smaller energy company's that people seem to think are giant's...i.e cev, tex. shell...yeah...there in the top 15..but there not THE big dog's...anyway..there's a shit load of work being done on it...now..if we could get a certain gubment party to play along..we can get some where...and fast! that 10 year thing is a fucking JOKE....PEOPLE! PUT PREASURE ON YOUR LEADER'S.

 

[justanotherbozo]

one of these on top of every house would help a lot
wind

and anyone growing organically could use one of these
composter

 

[okwildfire]

one of these on top of every house would help a lot
wind

and anyone growing organically could use one of these
composter

awsome links! lol i think i know your avatar!

 

[justanotherbozo]

awsome links! lol i think i know your avatar!

lol, that's my inner child

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

Here the thing tho. Its just like Ghandi said. You gotta be the change you want to see in the world. First off, I think too many people are ignorant bout the gravity of the problem. Some just figure its the way it is and step rite into it. Nobody thinks they can do anything bout it, they think change has to come from somekinda "official" scorce. --The change is YOU. Whoever wants this gotta get it for themselves. There aint no govment office thats gonna decide we autta conserve and start hookin us up with conservatory options. We gotta get it ourselves. Theres things we can all do personaly to help this situation. Theres been some great sugestions given rite here on this thread smater o fact. Il tell Ya what. It realy IS just fukkin amazin that all our houses aint roofed with solar panels. Its just fukkin nuts that we all aint got windmills on our roofs. The system that some Folks count on to gettem outta this mess got wires and gass lines runnin to our houses. Fukk that mess. Their comercials on tv will try to make the idea of buyin a new car so fukkin appealin that you get a car lot boner. Its just a fukkin shame that most Folks think its a beter idea to get a new car than to get a photo voltaic system for theyr homes. Anybody with 17 - 23 k could get themselves a photovoltaic system for theyr house but most Folks would rather get a new car. Aye Carrumba. We's been brainwashed wif that slime oozin outta from our tv sets. Take it away Don Pardo!

 

[okwildfire]

Here the thing tho. Its just like Ghandi said. You gotta be the change you want to see in the world. First off, I think too many people are ignorant bout the gravity of the problem. Some just figure its the way it is and step rite into it. Nobody thinks they can do anything bout it, they think change has to come from somekinda "official" scorce. --The change is YOU. Whoever wants this gotta get it for themselves. There aint no govment office thats gonna decide we autta conserve and start hookin us up with conservatory options. We gotta get it ourselves. Theres things we can all do personaly to help this situation. Theres been some great sugestions given rite here on this thread smater o fact. Il tell Ya what. It realy IS just fukkin amazin that all our houses aint roofed with solar panels. Its just fukkin nuts that we all aint got windmills on our roofs. The system that some Folks count on to gettem outta this mess got wires and gass lines runnin to our houses. Fukk that mess. Their comercials on tv will try to make the idea of buyin a new car so fukkin appealin that you get a car lot boner. Its just a fukkin shame that most Folks think its a beter idea to get a new car than to get a photo voltaic system for theyr homes. Anybody with 17 - 23 k could get themselves a photovoltaic system for theyr house but most Folks would rather get a new car. Aye Carrumba. We's been brainwashed wif that slime oozin outta from our tv sets. Take it away Don Pardo!

very good point!..like me...i have two 14 foot long solar panal's on my roof...not for juice...but for heating...and it's plumbed for hot water too!..just need to hook that part up...but till i get my back fixxed...my ass aint getting up there...here's the thing...PEOPLE HAVE THE POWER! do something...stop counting on the gubment to do it for you...hell...they aint here for that anyway lol....THE FIRST STEP START'S WITH YOU! (You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to HairlessCaveApe again.)

 

[HairlessCaveApe]

Thats just beautyfull bout the heat and hot water panels OkWildfire! Soons I get things sorted out with my house situation and I get a mortgage to pay I wanna get them heat and hot water panels as well as photovoltaics. Its a long term goal of mine. Till then Im tryin to sukk as little bush nipple as I can. I turn off all unnessasary lights and all that stuff. I conserve as much water as posibl too. My water bills bout half what my Buddy pays. I also use very little gasoline. I got a car that aint even runnin now but even when I do got a runnin car I stil stay constantly concious of the fuel Im burnin and Im happy to go out to the city once a month. Im much hapier fiddlin round the house and garden, and if that gets dull I got the yard. Im just hopin and prayin that I can get this property were on now. We'r workin on gettin the owner to carry the loan. I shure do hope he dose. If he dose I shure would like to do a whole lot of solar and wind stuff round the place! Blessins on Ya OkWildfire for carin enoughf bout our situation!

 

[Space Toker]

im all for alternative fuels, but i dont think you can call oil "evil"

stop buying gas and MAYBE you can put exxon out of business, but all they are doing is giving you what you want/need.

Well I want to say that I was using irony or satire or whatever, you know, Bush the oilman calling people "evildoers" when he wears that title well himself, and things of this nature. But although you make valid points, I do think oil is not a good thing to say the least. I am so sick of them saying we have to drill more, Hell no that's the worst thing we can do, we need to ban it yesterday!

And CLEAN COAL? What a laugh! Even if they cut the air pollution and particulates down a little, I'm sure they don't capture the CO2. And even if you could truly make it clean, how much would that cost? Too much, there arte better ways! And back to oil: It is a dirty, foul substance. It pulls carbon dioxide that is stashed away safely deep underground, which took nature millions of years to do, and puts that carbon in the the atmosphere instantly and causes global warming and air pollution in general. Biofuel, butanol or ethanol, just takes CO2 that would go into the air anyway and so no net CO2 gain. meanwhile I would like to see some technology developed to taking CO2 out of the air. I was going to say tank it up for us to use, but that would not solve the problem, unless your growroom is miles underground!

But this is what I like, participation and ideas, not me preaching but others offering ideas and potential solutions.

 

[Space Toker]

Biofuel is not dirty as far as I know, not any dirtier than oil. Nuclear will never be cost effective, it costs too damn much to build the plants and then you have the waste which lasts forever. Unless they finally figure out how to do fusion cost effectively, nuclear is a no go. Whereas if they just put a couple thousand turbines in New York Harbor (I forget the exact number but it sounded very feasible), we could supply the whole country or was it the whole world? I think wind has the most potential, although new technology that allows cheaper more efficient solar is being developed and between those and biofuel generated from cellulose (plant fiber, yes like hemp), and hydrogen fuel cells all can contribute to a 100% renewable energy system within 10 or so years if we want it bad enough. Those that keep pushing oil and coal are oil and coal "dealers". There is no good reason to stick with the same old same old when we can have so much better, and oh yeah, nice side effect, save our world too!
Oil can't promise that. Those who have something to gain from fossil fuels sell doubt and procrastination, and threats to the economy when in fact alternative energy would be good for the economy. The only reason to stick with oil is procrastination, ignorance and laziness. Doesn't sound like good reasons to trash our planet to me!

 

[DogBoy]

The solution to the energy crisis is the same one to solve the food crisis. We need to limit the population. This however will not be done until it's too late though so it's not going to get any better. This planet has finite resources and all we are doing at the moment is stealing tomorrows fuel/food to provide for today. Once we run out we will have a forced population cull and things will level out again.

Man is his own worst enemy.

 

[justanotherbozo]

The solution to the energy crisis is the same one to solve the food crisis. We need to limit the population. This however will not be done until it's too late though so it's not going to get any better. This planet has finite resources and all we are doing at the moment is stealing tomorrows fuel/food to provide for today. Once we run out we will have a forced population cull and things will level out again.

Man is his own worst enemy.

i'm glad Elon Musk doesn't feel that way.

 

[sirgrassalot]

I was out of town working all weekend & it got a little cooler in the mornings up here. I had the overalls on so I fired up the dutch oven occasionally. That kept me nice & toasty. The generator just sat there until we used heavy duty equipment.

 

[begeesterdechol]

The solution to the energy crisis is the same one to solve athe food crisis. We need to limit the population. This however will not be done until it's too late though so it's not going to get any better. This planet has finite resources and all we are doing at the moment is stealing tomorrows fuel/food to provide for today. Once we run out we will have a forced population cull and things will level out again.

Man is his own worst enemy.

Do you seriously believe this?

I would say one of the major problems to sustain the human population here on earth is the fact that the majority of westerners is overconsumating. Living like we have infinite resources. People have to realise there is only so much to go around and that if we keep using more than the planet and we can provide for we are slowly destroying human society and the planet. Dragging as much as we can with us. We know there are going to be oil shortages and the alternativers aren't there yet, still I see people driving to the store around the corner or co/workers living in tghe same street driving seperatly to work. That's just absurd.
Industrial farming has a greater co2 impact than the transportbussines alltogheter, still people eat meat twice, three times a day. It is us who are creating these problems.

Anyways this is off-topic so i'll leave it at this


p.s. people need to stop shitting out babys like this, go buy one.

 

[thekingofNY]

without reading anyones replys:

fuck that, we need to start using more nuclear energy... figure out a way to make electrical heat/wires way more efficient, and build more nuclear power plants. I dont have the link, but i know they did something with the design of them in the past years to make them fully safe from meltdowns/contaminating the environment, now I know the titanic was supposed to be unsinkable, but still. Make the scientist that work on/design it live near it, or just choose them....

cars could be nuclear powered too. I know they power a few of our aircraft carriers and sub's with nuclear power, and i am pretty sure it runs for a few years at a time before anything has to be changed, resulting in waste. So improve that time too, along with improved efficiency electric heat and wiring, and it would solve all our energy problems.

bagees, we do have infinite resources.... nuclear energy, and desalination(sp) plants. They turn salt/ocean water into drinking water and have been around for YEARS... countries are too stupid/poor too build them though. Even the US....

 

[begeesterdechol]

...

bagees, we do have infinite resources.... nuclear energy, and desalination(sp) plants. They turn salt/ocean water into drinking water and have been around for YEARS... countries are too stupid/poor too build them though. Even the US....

Jup water and energy is all we need!

Nuclear energy is a safe form of energy, cances something goes wrong are very small but there is the problem of nuclear waste. We can keep putting it into bombs no-one uses.
Before there is a solution to this problem nuclear energy is a no go too for me. Just keep them running till we have tweaked other sources.

 

[Avant-Green]

The possibilities are just about endless, While nuclear is a "clean" way to go about things i don't see it as much of a long term solution as a lot of people think. Like others have said, what about the waste? It has to go somewhere... to be honest i'm sure everybody wants that somewhere to be no where near them. As an individual there are things we could do, cut down on driving, hot showers, keep temps in the house lower... things that don't require investment. If you can afford to purchase solar panels or "wind mills" for your house that's great and you should but i beleive that until there is a solid alternative energy infrastructure things won't get better a worldwide sense.

Tidal and wave energy, big time solar plants, trough systems, biofules/ "biocleaners" like algae, Geothermal, wind farms, Liquefied gas from coal... all these types of things that would help move things like oil to the background and newer cleaner technology to the foreground, in my opinion will take some time, and i think if the correct steps are taken within the government and private industry these types of energy will become more and more prevalent throughout the world.

Think how quickly technology has developed, in a few years time photovoltaic will be cheaper, more efficient, and most likely be used on a larger scale, Geothermal has enormous potential, but that's not something that most individuals have the opportunity to tap into but if local utilities started realizing that we can use old oil wells for energy via geothermal technology then i think we'll start to see improvements in all aspects of society and in the long run cheaper KWH's.

In short i think that people can do a lot themselves but we need to do a lot as a society as well to really get things going for ourselves ie: cheaper, cleaner, renewable energy. It's all out there, we just need to step up... It's times like this i wish i had millions to invest.