F2's (a discussion)
- Thread starter NOKUY
- Start date
G
Guest
Let's keep this going!
I am interested in making f2's as well. I haven't grown out any of the ones I have made yet as I am still wading through seeds.
The purpose for the average grower is to preserve genetics for future use and sharing with friends. But I am also interested in the parents poking through. For example, if I make Sweet Tooth f2's, what are the chances of getting a plant with mostly Sweet Pink Grapefruit qualities?
The biggest question for me is picking fathers.
I have just popped the last of my SD IBL's. I had 3 males previously and lost 2 females to insecticide soap. ( an over reaction to spider mites, which were annihilated at the expense of the SD) I have 5 seeds going and I hope to get at least 2 females. I saved the strongest, vigorous and most stinky male from the first three. But of course I have no idea of what it will make.
I am planning to put all 6 together and let them run their course in a cab built for this purpose. I figured that this gives me two opportunities:
1. To see the males in full maturation and see how resinous they are as well as a taste of the females.
2. To get a cross pollination to get a really good cross section of the genes in the f2 generation, to give me a better chance of finding a keeper.
Since their are two reported phenomes: a lemony one and a diesel one.
If I don't get representation in the females I find, I hope to find them in the f2's.
There have been many reports of high male to female ratio and f2's giv me the chance to beat the odds.
If it is an IBL it ought to be true breeding, yes?
I need to reread this thread.
I am interested in making f2's as well. I haven't grown out any of the ones I have made yet as I am still wading through seeds.
The purpose for the average grower is to preserve genetics for future use and sharing with friends. But I am also interested in the parents poking through. For example, if I make Sweet Tooth f2's, what are the chances of getting a plant with mostly Sweet Pink Grapefruit qualities?
The biggest question for me is picking fathers.
I have just popped the last of my SD IBL's. I had 3 males previously and lost 2 females to insecticide soap. ( an over reaction to spider mites, which were annihilated at the expense of the SD) I have 5 seeds going and I hope to get at least 2 females. I saved the strongest, vigorous and most stinky male from the first three. But of course I have no idea of what it will make.
I am planning to put all 6 together and let them run their course in a cab built for this purpose. I figured that this gives me two opportunities:
1. To see the males in full maturation and see how resinous they are as well as a taste of the females.
2. To get a cross pollination to get a really good cross section of the genes in the f2 generation, to give me a better chance of finding a keeper.
Since their are two reported phenomes: a lemony one and a diesel one.
If I don't get representation in the females I find, I hope to find them in the f2's.
There have been many reports of high male to female ratio and f2's giv me the chance to beat the odds.
If it is an IBL it ought to be true breeding, yes?
I need to reread this thread.
southwind
Member
hello
The chances of finding a SPG are fair, one cant know for sure what the F2 of a hybrid will be. It depends on how stable or true breeding the SPG and Blueberry were.
You will mosy likely see a good spread of phenos some tending one way some the other and others right in the middle of the SPG/Blueberry this has been my experience.
So your idea of getting them all togther for maximum phenos is what i would do myself and then start focussing on the traits i want from there.
And IBL for most purposes is a True Breeding Plant
observing the males for the traits you want to reproduce is what i do and it has worked well for me.
South
The chances of finding a SPG are fair, one cant know for sure what the F2 of a hybrid will be. It depends on how stable or true breeding the SPG and Blueberry were.
You will mosy likely see a good spread of phenos some tending one way some the other and others right in the middle of the SPG/Blueberry this has been my experience.
So your idea of getting them all togther for maximum phenos is what i would do myself and then start focussing on the traits i want from there.
And IBL for most purposes is a True Breeding Plant
observing the males for the traits you want to reproduce is what i do and it has worked well for me.
South
Kmarpa said:
Great discussion guys and gals! Thanks for bumping OGBub!
In 2005 I made some inbred cross 2's (originally thought were F2's) of North #1 (C99x (Ak47 x JC Blueberry)) and Jamaican Jam(Jamaican Spear x afghani). It was done by open pollination of 2 selected males from each line with each plot close enough cross pollination was likely. Distance was about 50-100 ft of thick brush.....
Grew out the progeny this year and everything was good as can be. Very tastey and potent, but I have little experience with connesseur quality cannabis to compare....It was interesting none the less. I dont remember tons of variation, but the buds were all mixed up since the seed/pollen was not separate.
When it comes down to it, it is difficult to really determine what alleles and genetic mechanisms are playing out, and how they are interacting with the environment resulting finally in plant morphology and various phenotypes. Its likely many traits are governed by multiple genes, some interacting with one another and the environment. On top of this, there's the issue of codominance and incomplete dominance....
Makes things a little hairy!
Getting down and dirty, growing out and observing progeny, counting and determining percentages/ratios of the desired traits looking at the patterns of inheritance from the parents......This seems to be what we've got....
Then use this information to breed systematically. The proof is in the progeny!
In 2005 I made some inbred cross 2's (originally thought were F2's) of North #1 (C99x (Ak47 x JC Blueberry)) and Jamaican Jam(Jamaican Spear x afghani). It was done by open pollination of 2 selected males from each line with each plot close enough cross pollination was likely. Distance was about 50-100 ft of thick brush.....
Grew out the progeny this year and everything was good as can be. Very tastey and potent, but I have little experience with connesseur quality cannabis to compare....It was interesting none the less. I dont remember tons of variation, but the buds were all mixed up since the seed/pollen was not separate.
When it comes down to it, it is difficult to really determine what alleles and genetic mechanisms are playing out, and how they are interacting with the environment resulting finally in plant morphology and various phenotypes. Its likely many traits are governed by multiple genes, some interacting with one another and the environment. On top of this, there's the issue of codominance and incomplete dominance....
Makes things a little hairy!
Getting down and dirty, growing out and observing progeny, counting and determining percentages/ratios of the desired traits looking at the patterns of inheritance from the parents......This seems to be what we've got....
Then use this information to breed systematically. The proof is in the progeny!
the SPG phenos should show up fairly consistantly in the F2s.. I had a similar experience with Blockhead F2s.. I started 10 and got 6 fems.. 2 were extremly GF, 2 were mostly BB looking, with a bit of SPG in them, and 1 was P19, and 1 was a P19 leaning pheno with a touch of the SPG/BB in her..
parents will show thru.. I used 2 dif females for making my F2s, and the more SPG female gave a higher percentage of SPG phenos, some smelling even more GF than the real SPG cut.. the other female was a thinner leafed P19 pheno, and my 2 P19 phenos came from that batch..
I also gifted the F2s out to many people, and this seems fairly consistant between the batches.. But the plants are still very constistant for potency, denseness, and resin production, regardless of the differences in smell/flavor/shape..
I really enjoy F2s, they are some of my favorite seed to grow.. I love looking thru all the dif phenos and finding new things..
good luck with yer F2s kmarpa, that's heartbreaking to lose yer 2 SDIBL females
parents will show thru.. I used 2 dif females for making my F2s, and the more SPG female gave a higher percentage of SPG phenos, some smelling even more GF than the real SPG cut.. the other female was a thinner leafed P19 pheno, and my 2 P19 phenos came from that batch..
I also gifted the F2s out to many people, and this seems fairly consistant between the batches.. But the plants are still very constistant for potency, denseness, and resin production, regardless of the differences in smell/flavor/shape..
I really enjoy F2s, they are some of my favorite seed to grow.. I love looking thru all the dif phenos and finding new things..
good luck with yer F2s kmarpa, that's heartbreaking to lose yer 2 SDIBL females
southwind
Member
hey bean
hey bean
I just left the hospital for kidney stone and I must be enjoying this morphine because I completely left out the P19!
Thanks for chiming in as always!
hey bean
I just left the hospital for kidney stone and I must be enjoying this morphine because I completely left out the P19!
Thanks for chiming in as always!
beancounter said:the SPG phenos should show up fairly consistantly in the F2s.. I had a similar experience with Blockhead F2s.. I started 10 and got 6 fems.. 2 were extremly GF, 2 were mostly BB looking, with a bit of SPG in them, and 1 was P19, and 1 was a P19 leaning pheno with a touch of the SPG/BB in her..
parents will show thru.. I used 2 dif females for making my F2s, and the more SPG female gave a higher percentage of SPG phenos, some smelling even more GF than the real SPG cut.. the other female was a thinner leafed P19 pheno, and my 2 P19 phenos came from that batch..
I also gifted the F2s out to many people, and this seems fairly consistant between the batches.. But the plants are still very constistant for potency, denseness, and resin production, regardless of the differences in smell/flavor/shape..
I really enjoy F2s, they are some of my favorite seed to grow.. I love looking thru all the dif phenos and finding new things..
good luck with yer F2s kmarpa, that's heartbreaking to lose yer 2 SDIBL females
well, you were right SW, no worries.. ST#3 doesn't have P19 in her, it was used with an SPG dominant ST#3 father to make Blockhead..
I just thought BH would be a good example, but it does have one other variable, so the SPG phenos may be easier to find in ST#3.. you'll never know for sure till you make em and grow em.
I do suggest culling any severe Autoflowering ST#3s, or any that are more easily supseptible to mold. Those are the ST#3 line's only issues, so select away from it if you can..
I just thought BH would be a good example, but it does have one other variable, so the SPG phenos may be easier to find in ST#3.. you'll never know for sure till you make em and grow em.
I do suggest culling any severe Autoflowering ST#3s, or any that are more easily supseptible to mold. Those are the ST#3 line's only issues, so select away from it if you can..
G
Guest
I am using ST1.1 right now which is the original SPG x BB. But that is on the backburner as I focus on the remaining 5 SD IBL's. I hope to get at least one female.
So far, they are healthy and vigorous. Doing much better than the first batch.
So far, they are healthy and vigorous. Doing much better than the first batch.
I gave out some F2's from some SWT#3..I wonder what everybody found..I have some left but haven't grow any out yet..Also have BH F2's which haven't found thier way to soil yet....The ones that have found thier way are some F2's of Bog's Lifesaver x Bog's Sour Bubble....I found a very nice SB pheno that has trilateral branching..It's a female...I cloned the top so I could keep the trilateral branching..It should yield nicely..I'll get some pic's soon..The Lifesaver brings many possibilities to the F2's....Jacks Cleaner, DJ's Blueberry and Bogbubble..I'm in the process of making F2's of Sour Bubble 2.5 bx and SSH (Mr.Nice)..Alot of nice stuff can be found in F2's...mitsu
Southwind - hope you're feeling better. I've been there - twice!
Not good...not good at all. Didn't realise pain could be quite that painful...! Still, the free pharm-quality morphine is one of the few upsides of a kidney stone...
G
Guest
Yeah, sorry to hear about that, glad it's over.
southwind
Member
Hello Kmarpa
Hello Kmarpa
I forgot to mention that your original question about SWT was answered by me using SWT# 1.1 NOT SWT #3
So I am only applying that answer to a SWT 1.1 that was not back crossed to SPG since SWT #3 was BC'd to SPG more SPG phenos will most likely occur there.
Hello Kmarpa
Kmarpa said:
I forgot to mention that your original question about SWT was answered by me using SWT# 1.1 NOT SWT #3
So I am only applying that answer to a SWT 1.1 that was not back crossed to SPG since SWT #3 was BC'd to SPG more SPG phenos will most likely occur there.
Greetings All,
I waded through as much of this thread as I could and THINK I got a clue out of it. Here's what I've got going on...
I have a Ortega lady I hit with STS to produce what I beleive would be called S1 pollen. I want to cross the Ortega with an Ogre lady I have in flower. My goal would be to come up with progeny that retain the Ogre pheno traits and pick up some of the stature of the Ortega. I am guessing the traits that I'm looking to retain from the Ogre are recessive since Ogre is considered a "rare" pheno of Sensi Star. So..
I'm guessing F2s are going to be my best bet for finding a specimen that shows this recessive trait.
Another question I have is...
Since I'm using STS to create pollen for the first cross, arent the progeny going to have an extremly high ratio of females with maybe a few hermies? I guess this means that I'll have to hit the progeny of the first Ortega x Ogre (S1 pollen) with STS so I can get pollen to do my F2 cross?
Any input appreciated. It's time for another cup of coffee and my morning meds.
Peace
I waded through as much of this thread as I could and THINK I got a clue out of it. Here's what I've got going on...
I have a Ortega lady I hit with STS to produce what I beleive would be called S1 pollen. I want to cross the Ortega with an Ogre lady I have in flower. My goal would be to come up with progeny that retain the Ogre pheno traits and pick up some of the stature of the Ortega. I am guessing the traits that I'm looking to retain from the Ogre are recessive since Ogre is considered a "rare" pheno of Sensi Star. So..
I'm guessing F2s are going to be my best bet for finding a specimen that shows this recessive trait.
Another question I have is...
Since I'm using STS to create pollen for the first cross, arent the progeny going to have an extremly high ratio of females with maybe a few hermies? I guess this means that I'll have to hit the progeny of the first Ortega x Ogre (S1 pollen) with STS so I can get pollen to do my F2 cross?
Any input appreciated. It's time for another cup of coffee and my morning meds.
Peace
this is a great read Yukon... i have only made it to page 3 and already my head is spinning with everything i have read... alot of good points have been made and im just trying to absorb everything i have read and am also trying to apply and think about a few of the things i am trying to get done hopefully with this round.
After i finish reading through the rest, which will probably be tomorrow seeing i think iv read enough for tonight and all the bowl smoking is finally taking its toll... Im sure i will have some questions which hopefully some of the more knowledgeable members will get a chance to stop by and answer...
Will be back....
After i finish reading through the rest, which will probably be tomorrow seeing i think iv read enough for tonight and all the bowl smoking is finally taking its toll... Im sure i will have some questions which hopefully some of the more knowledgeable members will get a chance to stop by and answer...
Will be back....
Do you mean whorled phyllotaxy??
3 or more branches growing at the same node,the plant will grow out of it when the nodes start to alternate and it's rear for it to be passed on to the offspring.
Pitt Bully
Member
A lot of comercial seeds in famous banks are f-2, no f-1.
Example, Jack herer no are f-1 sure, sure, very inestable seeds.
Example, Jack herer no are f-1 sure, sure, very inestable seeds.
THC•20
Member
I just found this thread and read it and I must say it was very informative. But I have a question. I'm getting C99 and it's said to be F2. The description says that they are mostly uniform and produce similar phenos. But what if I decided to just use the first male I find and cross it to my favorite female..would I have a harder time finding the desired female in the offspring? Besides the dominant/recessive trait (which seems to only be useful when you have enough # of plants to determine that) part that I read I'm still stomped on going about picking the right male and due to me not having the room to grow out all 10 at a time I would feel crushed using all 10 seeds with no guarantee I'll find a male that necessarily stands out from the rest in the pack...maybe I need to just start buying 2 packs of each strain I want lol.
