If I were a seed company

[Sam_Skunkman]

marijuanamat,
"but a plant is a living thing put on this earth for all to enjoy and no one person/corperation has the right to say they own it no matter who/what you are."

Do you feel the same about apples, corn, tomatoes, wheat? Almost all the fruit and vegetables and grains sold in stores are from varieties that are Plant Variety Protected, or didn't you know this? Why do you think breeding companies are willing to spend years and thousands of dollars to develop a new variety that is New, Distinct, Uniform and Stable? Only because they can get plant variety protection to help them get a fair return for their labor.

Remember that the reason knock-off artists use established varieties is so they don't have to do the hard laborious variety development work. Any grower of tomatoes or Cannabis or whatever agricultural crop can make his own variety of tomatoes but few do as they are not as good or they do not fit the market requirements of a modern world. If someone wants to grow Cannabis or tomatoes they do not have to grow a developed & registered variety, they can find alternatives to registered varieties but good luck to sell them, in the case of tomatoes. In the case of Cannabis I'm sure they could as long as the quality was good.

 

[charlie garcia]

were can i get your skunk #1 beans from sam?

In the meantime there are some new guys here in Sp. trying to sell a new feminizeds seed bank saying they have pure Skunk#1, pure Sensi Star, pure Ak47, pure Chronic, etc LOL Maybe ask them Benji? lol http://www.cannabiscafe.net/foros/showthread.php?t=115153

I dont know what to say sometimes. What I am sure is that there is something so wrong in this seed business we have today

 

[Raco]

Well said Sam and charlie
This is the way they promote the product

"- AFGAN KUSH SPECIAL


Genotype: 100% indica
Female: PURE AFGAN KUSH
Stabilized male hybrid: POLLEN OBTAINED FROM PLANTS
GENETICALLY MODIFICATED.
Male is obtained from a determinated quantity of plants growing with a
mitothic inhibitor that give us polysomic plants. This mutant hybrids have
been selected and classified with the best properties in order to obtein a
new potential genetic in a new cross.
Harvest time: 8 weeks indoor/ beginning of October outdoor
THC level > 20%
Production: 400-450 gr/m2 indoor/ 400-550 per plant outdoor
Buzz: very body stone.
Medical value: High. CBD content >1%"

..and many believe it...

 

[southflorida]

Lets say that I was a new seed company. And my company model would be no seed over $30 no matter what it is. What would be the F2's that you would like to see most in this company?

amnesia haze x white widow
super silver haze x bubblegum
kali mist x blueberry
chocolope x skunk #1
mako haze x milky way

these are a few.....I guess I could think of many many more...as most ppl who think about strains they would love to grow and then smoke...lmao

the fact remains for someone to make money seeling seeds they have to either grow them somewhere and then sell them, buy them from someone and then pack them and resell.....or like seedboutique....be a middleman for most companies (GN does have his own seeds also....I belive they are his...eventhough they are not talked much about on here)

the toughest part is customer service....because eventhough Mandala seeds were praised for quality and price....mike and his girlfriend.....have been having serious problems getting them out to middlemen first and now to regular retail customers also.....and of course no one except them knows why...whatever they say the reason is....the fact is no one knows if its true

 

[BENJI]

In the meantime there are some new guys here in Sp. trying to sell a new feminizeds seed bank saying they have pure Skunk#1, pure Sensi Star, pure Ak47, pure Chronic, etc LOL Maybe ask them Benji? lol http://www.cannabiscafe.net/foros/showthread.php?t=115153

I dont know what to say sometimes. What I am sure is that there is something so wrong in this seed business we have today

lol watch this charlie garcia lol here is my answer to all the people whinging about seed prices...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unkIVvjZc9Y

 

[ElectroSticky]

Lets say that I was a new seed company. And my company model would be no seed over $30 no matter what it is. What would be the F2's that you would like to see most in this company?

... putting out f2's of famous lines like ssh & bb for more affordable price *cheap!* ...


not everyone have the skills & opportunity to understand breeding , seed stocks & stain lineage .

i guess if i was a seed company i would try to deliver outstanding landraces(sativas & indicas) , Hybrids (hazes & kushes) and one or two backcrosses .... ...

 

[bcdk420]

this is what happens when plant genes gets patented..

http://www.ipfrontline.com/depts/article.asp?id=2190&deptid=4

anyone defending modern seed/plant produktion and legislations is greedy..

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Not that you care but plant variety protection is very different then patenting genes, do you understand the difference?
If you have seen my posts I am against GM plants, and that is what your post was about. What about just normal plant protection like all the corn, tomatoes, fruit and veggies you eat, that is what we are talking about. Or do you know some one with a plan to introduce GM Cannabis varieties? I doubt it.

-SamS

 

[PazVerdeRadical]

The thing is that a lot of people already think cannabis has been Genetically Modified. Even in the main-stream media we can see plenty of examples of people talking about GM cannabis that is ridiculously potent, addictive, expensive and destructive, no less! what a bunch of liers and clowns...

Let us clear this up ladies and gents:

When a person or group, works for many years doing work such as selective breeding of specifically chosen strains, in order to stabilize a new hybrid/polyhybrid line, and after achieving the desired results after many years of work, such person or group, decides to give it a name in order to make the new hybrid commercially available to the general public, they have the right to pursue such a business and protect their work of many years within the current legal system just as any other person in any other field of work would do.

With cannabis's laws being as fucked-up as they are today, such a deal does not apply to this plant. So a lot of scam-artists surface and take advantage of a misinformed market; which is not a fair thing.

When considering patent laws, also consider that the creator of a line is seen by the law as the one with the most interest in the well being and quality of the seeds/plants reproduced and sold, as they have a name and reputation to care after, so this is yet another advantage the developers of a line have over everyone else; this helps the general market as most likely the product they will get will be of optimal quality.

in a black market, you just get what you get and that is that, and if someone knocks you off, many unknowingly buyers may think you are shit because the seeds/plants they got did not match the descriptions given and/or simply sucked; so your good work and reputations gets smeared.
if the developer of the line knowingly gives permission to another party to reproduce his/her work, by doing so, they imply they deem them apt to grow/reproduce with quality standards.

also, if cannabis were legal, who is stopping any of you to become the competitors of the current corporations who would try to monopolize the area? after all, you would be able to do what you love without any sort of restrictions.

Paz

 

[marijuanamat]

I totally agree with you sam with plant protection ,i was just saying that in my opinion any living thing be it plant or animal shouldn't beable to be owned by man,if you get me.It's not as if we invented plants and animals now is it,there put on this planet for all to enjoy.

 

[Care Free 1]

Hi Sam,

Just wondering how you obtained the skunk line of plants? Do you continue to pay royalties to the persons who origanally grew the plants used to make skunk back in their native countries?

Dont you consider profiting off the original breeders of the plants used to create skunk without paying royalties to be wrong also? I have great repect for you, but these questions cross my mind.

If I go off to Afghanistan, meet a person out in the area, and obtain a gift of seeds from him, bring them back and create the best strain on the market, do I travel back to there, find the guy and pay him due royalties?

 

[Sam_Skunkman]

Carefree,
Read post #102.
There is no one person or even a group that could be paid. These varieties I used were developed by thousands of farmers over thousands of years. It does not mean I am free from obligation, but as you can see it is not the same as stealing one mans work for personal profit.
But back to your question, sure if you feel that is the best way for you to deal with it you can find seeds and pay the Afghani guy who found them for you, but I bet he had little or nothing to do with the variety development. But I do agree with you in principle but it is not so easy to find a solution.

-SamS

 

[Care Free 1]

Well Sam, I definately admire your stand on the principles, and appreciate your answer.

CF1

 

[petal]

Hi Sam,
If I go off to Afghanistan, meet a person out in the area, and obtain a gift of seeds from him, bring them back and create the best strain on the market, do I travel back to there, find the guy and pay him due royalties?

Good Luck in Afghanistan, Bud.
heheheh.

 

[DocLeaf]

There's never any guarantee that a pedigree dog will produce rosette winning pups!

What Sam says is true in theory,,, ... 'new cultigen' must perform true to their own type to be considered a 'new variety' worthy of legislative copyrite.

(btw I's also been growing food-crops for 20 years or more dude )

Copyright laws do not however exist in the canna-seed-world...

 

[houndog]

Gregor Mendel, a monk, who felt a passion to understand peas, and there was no currency involved, there was no ownership. Just love, Sam.

 

[guest123]

im surprised at some of the opinions here, i think if they truly put in the work they would think differently ...
just travelling for seed is a dangerous mission , never mind the work put in after that ,, sitting in your lounge waiting for a letter to arrive in the mail with an already worked strain within and making some f2s in your cupboard from a few plants is really is no comparison ...
i totally agree seeds should be cheaper , and the ones made with no effort should be free...

 

[joaquin386]

It is obious that Sam develop the Sk#1 himself (and all rights should be given to him because these kind of strains was not there before he decided to develop it) but generic Cannabis landraces is the ownership of the world.

You can not ask for many for landraces (except changing the name) like good wine. At the end the conditions where each plant is grow give that plant a better taste (look at the wine).

So I think IBL strains should be copyrights while landraces only name change (as the denomination of origin would be different).

As for not stable hybrids they should not count as possible copyright.

 

[DocLeaf]

This is one of the more interesting threads,,, where morals, ethics, passions, collide.

Seed Money: There is a big difference between the running costs of a large seed company working across several grow facilities/fields ,,,and the closet breeder that manages stock at home. The rent for breeders working in major cities then often gets passed on to the homegrower.

N.B. We don't think anyone here is trying to discredit Sam, or his work. Skunk#1 is and has been the building block of so many cultivated varieties of erb over the past 20yrs + that few (only an idiot) could dismiss all that Sam and Skunk has given to cannabis and its culture Jah bless

Obviously there was the "opportunity" when Sam could have really "capitalized" upon his work (while in Holland). What really interests us canna-activists is the reason Sam didn't...?

 

[charlie garcia]

With all of this we've managed to get at least to spread the seed around and thats positive. I think seed banks will fully dissapear and future is in hands of private growers to evolve and improve, right now the only ones who are making much more interesting research. Present here is only feminized so in a very few years not much elite or interesting males available either. Femminizing is a kinda copyright protection for most who can not get access to sts and so or get involved with that. Even a child could do before its own F2 to grow for years or even cross lines and have seeds... in near future here in my area that wont be possible and they will have to buy the seeds yearly, just like buying tomates to Monsanto. Today local market is 99% only fems so we will better freeze the regular seeds for future and for our children.